Nuestros Ranchos Test Site - DO NOT USE TO REGISTER

........................

El Colegio de San Luis A. C., el H. Ayuntamiento de Pinos y la Universidad
Autónoma de Zacatecas tienen el honor de invitar a la presentación del
libro:

De las mieles al mezcal. Haciendas y ranchos mezcaleros en Pinos, Zacatecas
(1890-1930) de Margil de Jesús Canizales Romo, impreso en México y
coediatado por el Colegio de San Luis A. C. y el H. Ayuntamiento de Pinos
Zacatecas, 2008. 226 pp. Incluye archivo fotográfico. ISBN: 970-762-032-3

Fecha: 13 de noviembre de 2008, 19 horas
Lugar: Foyer del teatro Fernando Calderón Av. Hidalgo S/N zona centro
(Frente al Mercado González Ortega) Zacatecas, Zacatecas.

Comentan:
Dr. Carlos Rubén Ruiz Medrano El Colegio de San Luis
Mtro. Edgar Hurtado Hernández UAZ
Mtro. Ángel Román Gutiérrez UAZ
Modera: Mtra Norma Gutiérrez Hernández UAZ

Esta obra analiza la dinámica socioeconómica de las haciendas y ranchos
productores de mezcal en el partido de Pinos, Zacatecas, durante los años
de 1890 a 1930. A fin de proporcionar una visión completa del desarrollo de
esta industria agrícola, el autor aborda diferentes tópicos
interrelacionados, tales como las formas de tenencia de la tierra y las
modalidades de administración dentro de las fincas mezcaleras. Así mismo,
realiza un estudio de la estructura de producción y la comercialización del
mezcal; en la última parte del libro, analiza las relaciones sociolaborales
que se establecieron y permitieron el funcionamiento de haciendas y ranchos
mezcaleros.

ÍNDICE

CAPÍTULO I. CONFORMACIÓN HISTÓRICA DEL PARTIDO DE PINOS Y LA RELACIÓN
INTERSECTORIAL
1. Antecedentes del partido de Pinos
2. Condiciones geográficas y climáticas
3. El partido de Pinos durante el porfiriato
4. La minería
5. La ganadería
6. La agricultura
7. Población: rasgos generales

CAPÍTULO II. HACENDADOS Y ESTRUCTURA AGRARIA EN EL PARTIDO DE PINOS
1. Tenencia de la tierra en la municipalidad de Pinos
2. Movilidad en la propiedad y grupos generacionales de propietarios
- Primer grupo generacional
- Segundo grupo generacional
- Conflictos entre las haciendas
3. Los Hacendados y la administración empresarial
- La administración de las haciendas
- Hacienda Santa Ana
- San Martín, Santiago, La Trinidad y San Nicolás
- La Pendencia
- Espíritu Santo
4. El arrendamiento y la administración

CAPÍTULO III. EL SISTEMA DE PRODUCCIÓN DEL MEZCAL
1. Antecedentes de la producción de mezcal en el partido de Pinos
2. Estructuras, edificios e instalaciones
- Las instalaciones fabriles
- Agua: pozos estanques y norias
- La Pendencia en la modernidad
3. Abasto de insumos: la lógica de explotación
4. El proceso de producción
- El corte del maguey
- La "tatema" de las piñas
- La molienda
- Fermentación y destilación

Capítulo IV. Política fiscal, producción y mercado
1. Disposiciones gubernamentales frente a la producción del mezcal
- La política fiscal durante el porfiriato
- La reestructuración en el cobro de impuestos en el régimen revolucionario
2. Producción de mezcal en haciendas y rancho
- La producción
- Los ingresos de las haciendas
- Precios de los productos
- El comercio del mezcal

CAPÍTULO V. LOS TRABAJADORES DEL MEZCAL
1. Mercado de trabajo en el Partido de Pinos
- Demanda de mano de obra en las haciendas y ranchos
2. Estratificación de los trabajadores y las condiciones de trabajo
- Trabajadores externos
- Trabajadores internos
3. Formas de remuneración y condiciones extralaborales
- Derechos de montes y pastos
- Acceso a la tierra de las haciendas y ranchos
4. Mecanismos de la retención de mano de obra y situaciones coercitivas
- Las deudas de los trabajadores
- Medidas coercitivas de trabajo
- Deudas de las fincas contraídas con los empleados

EPÍLOGO

CONCLUSIONES

--
Benicio Samuel Sanchez Garcia
Presidente de la Sociedad Genealogica del Norte de Mexico
http://www.Genealogia.org.mx
http://www.GenealogiaMolecular.com
Cel: 04481-1667-2480
"Haz tu Arbol Genealogico...El Arbol mas Hermoso de la Creacion"

ESPERANZA VILLARREAL, I am looking for the Villareal family members from Zacatecas going north to Chihuahua or Coahulia. My ancestor Juana Villarreal was from Jalpa, Zac. born about 1877 daugther of Juan Villarreal and Dionisia Salas. I wonder if you have some information about them and who are your ancestors in the Villarreal line. I could not see your file here al Nuestros Ranchos.

Sincerely

Alessandro Vitela

Hello,

I just joined the list last week. Gutierres is one of my two main lines of
research, in Jalisco:

Gutierres (also found as Gutierres Rubio) in Tepatitlan, at Hacienda El
Salto. Many of the following details are as yet unconfirmed, and I am hoping
other members may have suggestions for sources: I have gotten as far back as
Francisco Gutierres Rubio who was married to Juana Lomelin. Francisco died
about 1691/2. His children were born between 1652 and 1658: Francisca
(1652), Lazaro (1654), Leonor (1656) and Miguel (1658). They were espanoles.

Miguel Gutierres Rubio is the direct ancestor. He was possibly the owner
(dueno) of Hacienda El Salto. He married Ana Flores de Alba about 1686. He
died Oct 1727. His children were Luisa (Apr 1687), Ana and Cristobal (twins,
July 1689), Francisco Xavier (Aug 1681) and Miguel (1697/8).

Miguel Gutierres was again the direct ancestor. He married Gertrudis de
Rovalcaba y Agundiz, after which he lived at Hacienda La Calle. Gertrudis
was born Mar 1711 at Zapotlanejo; she was from Hacienda El Tempisque in
Tepatitlan at the time of her marriage (24 Jun 1728 at Tepatitlan). The
couple had at least 10 children, and I have found the birth entry in church
books for all but one - the direct ancestor, Jose Miguel Gutierres born
about 1738. At this point the family was at Santa Clara near Ocotlan. I
believe there was a Santa Clara de Zula northeast of Ocotlan, as well as a
rancho named Santa Clara in Ocotlan. I do not know which one the Gutierres
family lived at.

Jose Miguel Gutierres married Francisca Xaviera Flores at Ocotlan May 1772.
They had at least 9 children, all born at Rancho Santa Clara, Ocotlan, and
again the direct ancestor is the only one for whom I've been unable to find
a birth record: Jose Antonio Gutierres, born about 1785. He married Maria
Josefa Ybanez of Santa Anita, but I've been unable to find a marriage record
in Ocotlan or Santa Anita. First child was born 1811, so I suspect marriage
around 1809-10. The children were all born in Santa Anita or (nearby?)
Rancho de la Calera. Here too the direct ancestor is the only one for whom
I've been unable to find a birth record: Reymundo Gutierres born about 1815
in Santa Anita. He married Maria Francisca Romana Cadena in Guadalajara May
1840. (I'll continue with the Cadena line in a separate e-mail.)

The direct ancestors I'm really seeking above seem to be successfully
eluding me thus far. Are there any sources besides the Church that I can
turn to? Does anyone know of the ranchos I've mentioned and possibly have
information about them from this period? And finally, does anyone have
suggestions for how I can go further back in time in Jalisco - into the
1600's - and eventually make the leap from Jalisco to Spain? I would
appreciate any help - thank you in advance.

Susan Cadena

I have a book titled: Los señores de Zacatecas - Una aristocracia minera
del siglo XVIII novohispano. The author is Frédérique Langue. The book is
479 pages long, written in Spanish, and deals with the mining industry of
Zacatecas and the social evolution of the principal mining families who
settled there. It has an onomastic index at the end of the book and it is
soft bound. I am asking $40 for the book including shipping within the US
and prefer Paypal as a payment method. If interested please e-mail me
directly.

Maria Cortez

Since there were "Libro Reservado" and "hijo natural" entries contained within the same book (some on the same page), I would be enclined to believe that the lLibro Reservado obviously refers to the "secret rape and incest" entries. However, there were SO MANY. Honestly, I'd run across one every couple of pages. Could it also be that the children born out of wedlock to lower socio-econmic "commonlaw" couples and single women were simply referred to as hijos naturales, as we see the names of the mother/parents and the abuelos listed and therefore made public. While a child born out of wedlock to upper society, whether as a result of an extra marital affair or both unmarried persons, but of different socio-economic society or races, whose family would want to keep the resulting child a secret. I guess I'd hate to think there was that much incest or rape within one city every year.
Where would one find the Libros Reservados, as anyone could find relatives there. I'm sure it would make interesting reading, indeed. Alice BB

--- arturo.ramos2@gmail.com wrote:

From: arturoramos
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Libro Reservado
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:15:57 -0800 (PST)

There were some priests or parishes that kept separate books for "espanoles" and castas (negros, mulatos, indios). In others, they kept the baptisms separate by whether the children were legitimate or "natural" (out of wedlock).

However, a libro reservado would not refer to either of these. I believe that a libro reservado was the "secret" book where testimony about incest, rape, etc. was kept, which was necessary to make determinations of consanguinity and such, but was not proper to have in the "public" baptism and marriage registers.

I have seen many such "secret dispensations" in the Sagrada Mitra. Had it not been for the Mexican government seizing those documents and allowing LDS to film them, I doubt the Catholic Church would have ever allowed them to be seen by laypeople. Some are quite shocking and/or entertaining. Proof that the old refrain about "back in our time..." is a stretch.

Rosa and anyone else interested in attending the Northern California meeting of the Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society.

Below is the meeting information, where and when.
The Raleys supermarket has a meeting room that can be used for non-profit meetings. You can't bring any food from the outside. Anything to be consumed can be purchased at the Raleys Supermarket

Rosa, I hope you can make it to the meeting next week. If there's anything I can answer before the meeting, just send me an email to alliecar@pacbell.net

Alicia,
San Jose, Calif

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: mcortez

Subject: January 2009 meeting

I have reserved the Raley's event center in Elk Grove for our next
meeting. I hope you all can attend.

Date of Event
Saturday, January 24, 2009
Event time
11:00 am - 2:00 pm
Location (store)
Raley's
4900 Elk Grove Blvd.
Elk Grove, CA

If you have any topics of interest you would like discussed, please
reply to me and I will include them in the agenda. Thanks.

Maria

Thank-you for sharing that story with us in Nuestros Ranchos. I think part
of our "quest" is making necessary connections in what sometimes feels like
a disconnected world. I think it is a gift to everyone involved that we
care enough about those who may have been "long lost" or previously
unremembered, to be found, to remember, and to quite possibly provide them
with an opportunity to forgive and heal.

Corrine Ardoin
Santa Maria, California

Hello All! I came to a shocking find, I though all dispensas in Luz Montejano's book were supposed to get married after but not one for one of my ancestral tíos.
Felipe Alonso de los Hinojos (great grandson of the famous Lope Ruiz de Esparza) and Agueda de Estrada (great great grandaughter of the famous Lope Ruiz de Esparza). They presented their info (case or dispensa and was reviewed in 19 Aug 1700 in Villanueva.They weren't that bad third cousins sounds way farther than cousins, but the dispensa was nulled because some one leaked out info that Felipe had sexual relations with his soon-tobe wife Agued's maternal side tías (his second cousin, not sure which tía there's only Leonor, María or Nicolasa de Villagrán y Ulloa, great grandchildren of Lope. Just thought to share this info. Dispensas can get very scary but very curious and leaves you wondering in surprise or SHOCK!
-Daniel Camino

Origins of New Mexico Families by Fray Angelico Chavez

"Diego Perez Granillo, who had married his cousin Juana Romero, and had gone to Sonora before 1663, was Alonso's son if not a younger brother".

You will find this family, as early as 1617,  in Nueva Vizcaya, and New Mexico.
In 1661 - 1664, Francisco and Alonso were part of a wagon-train from Mexico City to New Mexico.

________________________________
From: "research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 4:06:31 PM
Subject: Research Digest, Vol 36, Issue 13

Send Research mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Research Digest, Vol 35, Issue 2 (Yolanda Ochoa)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 11:41:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Yolanda Ochoa
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Research Digest, Vol 35, Issue 2
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Message-ID: <851368.2310.qm@web32506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hello John Inclan - I don't know if you remember me but I use to be with the SHHAR organization and went to the Pentagon and National Archives with you around 4 years ago or so....anyway, hoping you might have some insight into the Perez-Granillo lines of Sonora Mexico.
Cap. Don Simon Perez Granillo married to Dona Maria Avila y Bernal had a son also named Simon Perez Granillo.  This Simon married Catharina Enriques Dominguez de Mendoza on A[pril 25, 1694 in Valle de Allende , Chihuahua Mexico.  Catharina was born in New Mexico according to the parish record and Simon was from Sonora, Mexico.
Any chance that this might be a son of Simon Perez-Granillo whose father was Alonso Perz Granillo, --whose father was Francisco Perez Granillo??
Any information that you might know regarding this line would be greatly appreciated.
Luz Montejano Hilton was trying to find my Simon and Catharina Enriquez several years ago.  I have tried to contact her but I hear she has been ill.  I was the connection she was trying to find. 
Thanks if you can help or have any ideas and I hope you are doing well,  I'm pretty sure form all the information that I have collected including books, that this Simon is related to the Francisco/Alonso Perez-Granillo line.
Yolanda Ochoa-Hussey
motherredcaps@yahoo.com

________________________________
From: John Inclan
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 8:41:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Research Digest, Vol 35, Issue 2

GREGORIO CASILLAS Pedigree
  Male  Family
   

________________________________
Event(s):
Birth: 
Christening: 
Death: 
Burial: 
   

________________________________
Parents:
  Father:  SEBERO CASILLAS  Family
  Mother:  FELIPA ROJAS   
   

________________________________
Marriages:
  Spouse:  ELIGIA RIVERA  Family
  Marriage:  26 FEB 1848  Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa Del Refugio, Zacatecas, Mexico 
  Husband Age at Marriage:  20 
  Wife Age at Marriage:  17   

________________________________
From: "research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 4:08:06 PM
Subject: Research Digest, Vol 35, Issue 2

Send Research mailing list submissions to
    research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org

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    http://lists.nuestrosranchos.org/listinfo.cgi/research-nuestrosranchos…

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de Refugio,    Zacatecas
      (Sandra Gomez Mendoza)
  2. Re: Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de Refugio,    Zacatecas
      (Sandra Gomez Mendoza)
  3. Re: Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de Refugio,    Zacatecas
      (Sandra Gomez Mendoza)
  4. Re: Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de Refugio,    Zacatecas
      (Sandra Gomez Mendoza)
  5. Onate/Zaldivar/Mendoza (John Inclan)
  6. Re: Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de Refugio,    Zacatecas
      (Daniel M?ndez del Camino)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

GREGORIO CASILLAS Pedigree
  Male   Family

________________________________
Event(s):
Birth: 
Christening: 
Death: 
Burial: 

________________________________
Parents:
  Father:  SEBERO CASILLAS Family
  Mother:  FELIPA ROJAS  

________________________________
Marriages:
  Spouse:  ELIGIA RIVERA Family
  Marriage:  26 FEB 1848   Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa Del Refugio, Zacatecas, Mexico
  Husband Age at Marriage:  20  
  Wife Age at Marriage:  17  

________________________________
From: "research-request@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 4:08:06 PM
Subject: Research Digest, Vol 35, Issue 2

Send Research mailing list submissions to
    research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://lists.nuestrosranchos.org/listinfo.cgi/research-nuestrosranchos…

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de Refugio,    Zacatecas
      (Sandra Gomez Mendoza)
  2. Re: Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de Refugio,    Zacatecas
      (Sandra Gomez Mendoza)
  3. Re: Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de Refugio,    Zacatecas
      (Sandra Gomez Mendoza)
  4. Re: Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de Refugio,    Zacatecas
      (Sandra Gomez Mendoza)
  5. Onate/Zaldivar/Mendoza (John Inclan)
  6. Re: Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de Refugio,    Zacatecas
      (Daniel M?ndez del Camino)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 15:08:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Sandra Gomez Mendoza
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de
    Refugio,    Zacatecas
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org, research@nuestrosranchos.org
Message-ID: <238974.17099.qm@web56307.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hola Daniel! Como siempre, que gusto.

My family includes the following:

Grandfather: Jose Pedro Gomez Casillas (born in Juchipila, 1891)

Greatgrandmother: Marciala Casillas (born in Tabasco)
   
Parents: (married in Tabasco)
  Father: Gregorio CASILLAS
  Mother: Eligia RIVERA
   
Grandparents: (unknown where they are from)   
  Father's Father: Sebero CASILLAS
  Father's Mother: Felipa DE ROJAS
  Mother's Father: Sinforiano RIVERA
  Mother's Mother: Ramona LOPES

--- On Mon, 12/1/08, Daniel M?ndez del Camino wrote:

> From: Daniel M?ndez del Camino
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa de Refugio, Zacatecas
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 1:39 PM
> Hola Sandra,
>      I have research in Villa de Refugio, Zac as well from
> 1776-1930. I have notice that almost everyone came from
> somewhere else. Mecatabasco was a large parish going down to
> Huansco, Zac to Calvillo, Ags
> and west Plateado, Zac your Casillas prob came from one of
> these places. I do have some Casillas but not related from
> Huanusco some miles from Tabasco, Maybe you could give me
> some dates and names, do you know what Ranchos or Haciendas
> they came from? Most of the names are not from Tabasco.
> They're are places, like Huiscolco, Plateado, La Luz,
> Refugio Sauz, Labor are some I can remember off the top of
> my head, we came from LA LUZ. Almost most families went to
> Tabasco to baptize their kids and also get married. -Daniel
> Mdc
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster.
> http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_fa…

Dear Group, Today while researching the 1856 Aguascalientes bautiso records, I kept coming across entries that read, "los nombres de sus padres, abuelos paternos y maternos se hallan el libro recervado". These were in addition to the usual "hijo natural" entries in the same book. What does these libro recervado entries refer to? Thanks so much, Alice BB

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Sylvia,

I was touched by your comments,
1.that you're pleased that people have responded to your query.
2. that you had some luck with some suggestions to look in San Juan de Los Lagos.
3. that some of your family members had relations from Nochistlan.

Thanks to Joseph Puentes and Arturo Ramos and to all the contributing members of this group, we all take infant steps and learn from each other, with the goal of some day finding our common connections. Eventually you will see that the combination of each baby step propels you to those leaps and bounds that are oh so exciting.

Here's a little rumination I wrote about how I got here to this magical hunt for my ancestors.

Pensamientos de mi suegro, Antonio Carrillo Jauregui,
Thoughts of my Father-inlaw, Antonio Carrillo Jauregui

The years had now passed since my father in-law died
That March of 1985, now seemed so long ago.
my children had grown and I had time to ponder,
who was their abuelo and where did he come from,

Through all the years, I knew not one soul,
who could call him a brother a primo or son,
who raised him, who loved him who taught him to love.
who showed him the values my husband had learned.

My children had their children, we were now abuelos.
what could I tell them, about their bis-abuelo,
where did he come from, who taught him to love,
who were his parents and where did they come from.

One day just by chance, I was scanning on-line,
I googled some names and by chance found roots-web.
I entered his name and the name Tlachichila
and there I found queries from others like me,
who hungered and thirsted, who wanted to know,
where did they come from and who taught them to love.

There were Carrillo's and Jauregui's, Olmos and Avelares
I read and I posted a message in cyber-space,
would this be of value I thought as I wrote,
will anyone read this? will anyone care,
will anyone know that Antonio was here.

The year was 2003, retirement was near
I dreamed of the day I would have time to search.
The message I'd posted in March 2003
was about to take flight, when a stranger named Joseph
would write and would ask, would you please join our group,

If you'd like to know more, come with us on our journey
together we'll learn, together we'll grow.
As a group we are stronger, as a group we are wiser,
and maybe some day you will know of Antonio Carrillo Jauregui,
who loved him, who held him, who taught him to love.

Best New Year wishes to each and every one of you,
Here's wishing you success in your search for your ancestors.

Atentamente;
Alicia, de San Jose, Calif

________________________________
From: SylviaRodriguezRobles
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, January 5, 2009 5:13:15 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Teocaltiche and Surrounding Areas

I am so pleased with the response and research tips. I will look at Nochistlan and other locals mentioned to continue my search. Someone mentioned similar points and I found a hit in San Juan De Los Lagos.
Some family members had wifes from Nochistlan surnamed Rosas and Luna. They all immigrated to the US about 1917. The families first settled in Peachsprings, Arizona and then permanently in Needles, CA. Ofcourse over time the first generation has passed away and most descendants now live in other parts of California, Nevada and Arizona and Washington state.
Thank you all so much, this is so much fun!

Sylvia Rodriguez Robles

Hola,
No puedo entrar al Record Search, empieza a cargar la página pero nunca termina, hay alguien que me pueda ayudar, me muero de ganas de entrar para poder buscar a mis ancestros.

Muchas Gracias por su ayuda
Patty

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/15147

The above is the link for my spreadsheets as promised on the families that I have extracted, but not linked to my research. These families include Alviso, Ledesma and Jauregui. Although these spreadsheets are not referenced, I do have dates and places noted and other information and will be happy and able to give anyone interested the number of the film that they may be found or in many cases, an actual scan of the document. Just contact me, however, I will be unavailable and offline for the month of February and will be back March 4th. The next two weeks are pretty free as we are having a blizzard and we are basically snowed in!!!! It will take Manny and I at least a day of digging to get us out and that is with a plow.

Please be advised that I use patron interchangeably with sponsor in baptisms or confirmations. The parents are listed in column "a" in bold and underlined. The children are listed underneath the parents, but not in bold. Across from the children are spouses and marriage dates if known. Underneath the spouse, in columns, b, c and d etc. are listed the children of those unions and in some cases the spouses and children of those children.

Please use the Excel "find" (those binoculars) option and put in a partial of the name you are looking for, then just hit next to scroll down through the names. It works really nice as I have tried to put the names in as the are in the documents, but sometimes the document is so hard to read I had to guess at the spelling. For example if you are looking for a Perez married to an Alviso, but "Per" in the find function as Perez may be spelled Peres or Perez. You may get other things not related, but it assures you get all the Perez's. It works if you just want to put some letters in from the middle of the name also, such as "qui" for Pioquinto. And if you are really wanting to look at all those people, you can still just scroll down the sheet.

I know this spreadsheet seems a bit obsessive, but what is really neat about it, is when I go back a generation. I link up one of these orphan families and it really expands my family tree quickly and easily. I look through my records and make sure the data is correct and then just copy and paste the people in. At first I thought oh my goodness, I must be crazy to do this, but when I started hitting pay dirt, this method really paid out.

Now this is months and months of work I am sharing and it was many late nights, so I am not infallible and there may be errors, so please forgive me. My fingers or eyes do not work so good when I am sleepy! I will correct them if the spreadsheet is found to be different from the document. On the birth date, I had to subtract the amount of days from the baptism date and so, I could be a little off. However, so could the priests as my mom-in-law celebrates her birthday on a different day than that which is on her baptismal document. I have not searched for her civil document, but would be curious to know if she has been celebrating on the wrong day for some 86 years!

Now I am still working on the De La Torre's and the Gonzales spreadsheets. I may take me a while as I have been dedicating some time to my own roots.

Good Luck and Happy Hunting

Maureen Bejar

This is partly a research topic, but probably also a general topic, so I put
this in research, because I have family information I do not want available
to the general public or to have show up on the internet. Sorry, if this is
not the way to do things.

As I mentioned before, I found the civil death records for my
greatgrandparents in Guadalajara, 1936 and 1941, with both of their race
designations being "mestizo(a)," followed by "mexicano(a)," which is part of
the form, so they would just fill in the blank next to "mexicano" to
designate what type of mexican they were.

Anyways, I looked up mestizo in the regular dictionary and it says this is a
person of Spanish and Indian (like Native American Indian, not India Indian)
descent, also that it means "half-caste." In the Spanish-English dictionary
that I use, mestizo means half-caste, of mixed race. Arturo was telling me
about the caste system in Mexico. I talked to my mother about it and she
says that the elite status was given to the pure Spanish citizens early in
Mexico's history, but later the indigenous held higher status after the
Mexican Revolution and then the Spanish were looked down upon. My
grandmother had told about learning in school, during revolutionary times,
things about the Spanish in such a negative way she would feel really bad
about being Spanish, like it was something to be ashamed of. Anyways,
according to my mother, the mestizos were basically of mixed race, Spanish
and French or Indian or whatever else. My greatgrandmother was Spanish and
Portuguese. The Martin del Campos "de la Yegua Rusa," which my ancestors
were, may have been of Spanish and French descent. However, I am hoping
that if there was any indigenous ancestry, it will say so on records. I
just want to know all about my ancestry.

So, as I was saying, she says how the caste system worked was the rich,
aristocratic Spanish were at the top, the "mestizos" that held merchant type
positions were the middle class, then the Indians were at the bottom. I
know this is a big generalization, too simplified. But, on these particular
civil records, it states that my greatgrandfather was a tailor. I know that
his sister had a shoe store on the plaza right by the Cathedral at the turn
of the century 1800's to 1900's and she had servants, as well. Their father
was a shoemaker, his brother a tailor, so it sounds like they were part of
the middle class. The family also had a farm outside of town, near Zapopan
and were, at times, poor. So, then, I am led to believe that "half-caste"
means "middle class," but I would like to hear more about this. I will be
digging further into this family line and would like to know not just their
race, but how that figured in to their lives.

In researching the history of the city of Guadalajara, I learned that the
downtown had been planned, but then neighborhoods kind of spread and grew
around it, called the "barrios." In these barrios, they were mini villages
in and of themselves, the rich with their comings and goings, their servants
and families, their merchants, tailors, shoemakers, etc. living near them to
cater to their needs. And the Indians were sort of pushed to the outskirts
by Tlaquepaque, I believe. These barrios then became formal districts for
record-keeping purposes and were then called "colonias." The first of these
was in the old downtown. Anyways, that's how I understand it to be.

I would appreciate being enlighted about the above topics if I am mistaken
in regards to the race designation on records, what purpose that served, the
caste system and what mestizo and half-caste really means, and the evolution
of Guadalajara's barrios into colonias. It is a complex city and I think my
family history research will be centered around there for some time, before
I get into records of family that lived in the ranchos.

I have not been actively researching for some time now, but recently I came across a long-lost cousin of mine who found her father in my genealogy database online and we have reconnected. Her father left Mexico as a young man during the Mexican revolution, with a handful of photos of his family, expecting never to see them again.

He never did, but his daughter found us ninety years later and we found some precious treasures including a photo of my great-great-grandfather from 1907.

http://ramosfamily.org/nextgen/getperson.php?personID=I374&tree=RamosPi…
http://ramosfamily.org/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=20&pos=34

This reconnection with this long-last brach of my family has led to me reconsider trying to break through a brick wall that I ran across a while back.

The furthest ancestor in this Gutierrez line that I have is a certain Salvador Gutierrez married to a Gertrudis de Vera in the mid-1700s. I have several children for the couple baptized in Tlaltenango, Zacatecas beginning in 1738, but I have been unable to find their marriage record (and thus have been unable to get back another generation):

1. Juan Antonio GUTIERREZ VERA, b. 1738, Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas, MEXICO
2. Joseph Maria GUTIERREZ, b. 21 Sep 1739, Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas, MEXICO
3. Juan Manuel GUTIERREZ, b. 29 Dec 1741, Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas, MEXICO
4. Gertrudis Dionicia GUTIERREZ VERA, b. 3 Nov 1742, Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas, MEXICO
5. Juan Antonio GUTIERREZ, b. 18 Apr 1743, Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas, MEXICO
6. (Jose) Blas Antonio GUTIERREZ, b. 18 Feb 1749, El Durazno, Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas
7. Juana Maria Francisca GUTIERREZ VERA, b. 3 Jun 1753, Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas, MEXICO
8. Vicencia Theodora GUTIERREZ VERA, b. 4 May 1755, Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas, MEXICO
9. Maria Regina GUTIERREZ VERA, b. 1735

There is a couple that intrigues me in the records, though the grooms surname does not match whatsoever. Any leads or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

SALVADOR SANDOVAL
Male
Parents:
Father: FRANCISCO SANDOVAL DE FL.
Mother: JUANA PONCE
Marriages:
Spouse: ANA DE VERA Family
Marriage: 13 SEP 1736 Tlaltenango De Sanchez Roman, Zacatecas, Mexico

Domingo, Jan 11, 2009

Me da mucho gusto ayudarse. Puede pagarme con las respuestas de donde vive y si entiende ingles. Mi primera lengua es ingles y naci en Canada. Tambien mis dos abuelas era de inglatierra.

Gracias.

Saludos de San Diego, California
Patricia Burton

--- On Sun, 1/11/09, leticia reynoso wrote:

> From: leticia reynoso
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Navarro en Ayo el Chico...
> To: "s s"
> Date: Sunday, January 11, 2009, 4:54 PM
> Patricia, muchas gracias, la verdad es que esta rama estaba
> tan enmarañada que llevaba años postergándola.. porque
> todos son Navarro Angulo, Angulo Navarro Hernandez, etc..
> pero ayer fué cumpleaños de mi suegro y le quiero dar una
> sorpresa porque de oaxaca ya le adelante mucho..gracias..si
> estás muy atorada y te puedo ayudar en algo quedo a tus
> órdenes, posteé la información para que se quede por si
> le sirve a alguien más. saludos L.Reynoso
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live mantiene tu vida digital en sincronía.
> http://download.live.com

Domingo, 11 Jan 2009

Leticia--

Mi esposo, Ramon Godinez, esta registrado en Atotonilco el Alto pero nacio en Santa Rita, Ayo el Chico (Ayotlan). Tengo mas que 30 anos buscando sus antipasados. Mi major experencia es en los ranchos de Atotonilco el Alto. Pero si tengo algunas de sus lines en partes de La Barca, Ocotlan, y Nochistlan. Tengo algo de Tepatitlan pero los registros de Tepatitlan no son tan faciles a leer como lo de mas.

Algunas de las lines mas viejas de mi esposo son de Santa Rita y otras partes cerca de alli. Voy a la biblioteca todas los miercoles y esta semana voy a ver que mas puedo decirse de Leonardo Navarro y sus antepasados.

Saludos de San Diego, California
Patricia Burton

--- On Sun, 1/11/09, leticia reynoso wrote:

> From: leticia reynoso
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Navarro/tepatitan
> To: "s s" , "genealogy groups"
> Date: Sunday, January 11, 2009, 2:01 PM
> Jose Antonio Navarro +Ana maria Montaño (busco a esto 2 y
> sus ancestros) padres de:
> Jose Blas NAVARRO MONTANO+ Ana Maria Diaz hija de ????
> casados el 15 oct 1788 tepatitlan pades de:
> Cleto Navarro(n,1796 Pandillo) casado primero con Maria
> Eduviges Romero el 5 mar 1819 en tepa ( hija de Miguel
> Romero y Susana Barajas)también los busco
> hijos:
> Maria Eleuteria Margarita NAVARRO ROMERO (n:20 feb
> 1827) + José Onofre ANGULO HERNANDEZ (1825) padres de
> Margarita Navarro Angulo esposa de Leonardo Navarro
>
> y segundas nupcias con Maria Gregoria Sanchez + Cleto
> Navarro ( M:3 abri 1848 Pandillo) hija de Manuel Sanchez y
> Antonia Gutierrez
>
> Saludos leticia Reynoso
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chatea en Messenger desde Hotmail.
> http://download.live.com

Domingo, Jan. 11, 2009

Miguel ANGULO c. con Maria Antonia DIAZ cerca de 1746 en Mexico
y Algunos de Sus Hijos:

1. Cathalina Rafaela ANGULO n. 1747 en Atotonilco el Alto, Jal.
c. 16 May 1770 in Tepatitlan de Morelos, Jal. con
Hipolito Caciano LOMELIN

Hijo(s) de Cathalina y Hipolito--uno nacio en 1786 en Atotonilco el Alto, Jal.

2. Don Salvador Antonio de ANGULO n. 1749 en Atotonilco el Alto, Jal.
c. 23 May 1774 en Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco con
Dona Ana Maria Faustina CAMARENA

Hijos de Salvador y Ana Maria--cuatro nacieron en 1776-1783 en Atotonilco el Alto, Jal.

3. Clemensia Margarita ANGULO n. 1751 en Atotonilco el Alto, Jal.
c. 11 Oct 1769 en Tepatitlan de Morelos, Jal. con
Salvador Cirilo GALLO y CARDENAS

Hijo(s)--???

4. Ju. Franco. ANGULO n. 1754 Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco
c. 30 Jan 1788 en Tepatitlan de Morelos, Jal. con
Ana Maria ACEVES

Hijos de Ju. Franco y Ana Maria--seis nacieron en 1790-1801 in Tepatitlan de Morleos, Jal.

.......................................

Anna Maria ACEVES hija de Don Joseph Manuel ACEVES y Ma. Margarita HERNANDES c. 23 Apr 1759 en Ayo el Chico, Jalisco (Ayotlan, Jal.)

.......................................

Saludos de San Diego, California
Patricia Burton

--- On Sun, 1/11/09, leticia reynoso wrote:

> From: leticia reynoso
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Navarro/Angulo/Aceves
> To: "genealogy groups" , "s s"
> Date: Sunday, January 11, 2009, 12:25 AM
> Hola a todos.. ¿De casualidad alguien sabe algo de Miguel
> Angulo y Maria Antonia Diaz en Tepatitlan?, creo que se
> casaron en 1752 en tonala Jalisco esta familia tuvo a:
> Jose Francisco Angulo casado con Anna María Azeves el 30
> de enero de 1788 en Tepatitlan. ( también busco a los papas
> de Anna Maria)
> También busco a Leonardo Navarro casado con Maria
> Margarita Angulo Navarro el 2 jun 1872 en atotonilco.
> Cualquier información se los agradezco de antemano..
> Gracias
>
> Leticia Reynoso
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail te da 5GB de capacidad.
> http://download.live.com

I've made tongue before - it's good when not over done. You boil the
tongue, then take off the skin that covers the tongue. Then you slice it, and
lightly sautee in oil with onions in a red chile (guajillos and tomatoe) sauce
that was pre-prepared. The trick is not to over cook it in the boiling
process or in the sautee process.

Esperanza
Chicagoland area
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir…
cemailfooterNO62)

Hi,
I'm a little behind in my emailing, due to computer difficulties, so I
apologize for trying to catch up with the many wonderful discussions.

Anyways, I remember going to my grandma and grandpa's house where they lived
in Inglewood (Los Angeles area) and going into the kitchen to see the
turkey. Well, she always cooked tongue, too, "lengua," so I would see that
big ole thing plopped there on top of the stove and my eyes would bug out.
"You eat that?" And everybody laughed, "Try some! It'll put hair on your
chest!" Seemed like there were a lot of things they ate that would put hair
on my chest, which I didn't really want, seeing as how I was a girl! I
never developed a taste for any of the organ meats and such that she served,
but I did love the traditional guacamole. Last year, I got all my family
to compile recipes and I put together and had printed a family recipe book.
My aunt had all my grandmother's recipes, so they all went into the
cookbook.

Corrine Ardoin
Santa Maria, California

Domingo, Jan 11, 2009

Margarita ANGULO n. 3 Aug 1853 en Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco
hija de Jose Onofre ANGULO n. 11 Jun 1825 y Ma. NAVARRO
nieta de Jose Maria Franco. ANGULO n. 23 Aug 1795 en Tepatitlan de Morelos
y Apolonia HERNANDEZ

...........................

Miguel AMGULO y Dona Antonia DIAS y sus hijos estaban en mis papeles y en la linea de mi amigo Steven HERNANDEZ.

La informacion nueva de Leonardo NAVARRO y (Maria) Margarita ANGULO Navarro que casaron el 2 Jul 1872 en Atotonilco el Alto fue gracias a las preguntas de Leticia Reynoso.

Que bueno es cuando uno puede ayudar el otro.

Saludos de San Diego, California
Patricia Burton

--- On Sun, 1/11/09, leticia reynoso wrote:

> From: leticia reynoso
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Navarro/Angulo/Aceves
> To: "genealogy groups" , "s s"
> Date: Sunday, January 11, 2009, 12:25 AM
> Hola a todos.. ¿De casualidad alguien sabe algo de Miguel
> Angulo y Maria Antonia Diaz en Tepatitlan?, creo que se
> casaron en 1752 en tonala Jalisco esta familia tuvo a:
> Jose Francisco Angulo casado con Anna María Azeves el 30
> de enero de 1788 en Tepatitlan. ( también busco a los papas
> de Anna Maria)
> También busco a Leonardo Navarro casado con Maria
> Margarita Angulo Navarro el 2 jun 1872 en atotonilco.
> Cualquier información se los agradezco de antemano..
> Gracias
>
> Leticia Reynoso
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail te da 5GB de capacidad.
> http://download.live.com

Domingo, Jan. 11, 2009

Leonardo NAVARRO c. 2 Jun 1872 en Atotonilco el Alto, Jal. con
Margarita ANGULO

Sus Hijos--tres

Ma. Cristina NAVARRO n. 28 Oct 1872 en Ayo el Chico, Jal. (Ayotlan)

Jose Lauro NAVARRO n. 20 Aug 1874 en Ayo el Chico, Jal. (Ayotlan)

Jose Alfredo de Jesus NAVARRO n. 16 Jul 1878 en Ayo el Chico, Jal. (Ayotlan)

........................

???? Jose Leonardo NAVARRO* n. 6 Nov 1846 en Ayo el Chico, hijo de
Visente NAVARRO y Pragedis GONSALES--
nieto de Manuel NAVARRO y Apolonia PERES y
Nieto de Marciano GONSALES y Guadalupe MENDES

.........................

Hermano de Jose Leonardo NAVARRO* era
Jose Juan Francisco NAVARRO n. 20 Jun 1850 Ayo el Chico, Jal.

.........................

Saludos de San Diego, Ca.
Patricia Burton

--- On Sun, 1/11/09, leticia reynoso wrote:

> From: leticia reynoso
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Navarro/Angulo/Aceves
> To: "genealogy groups" , "s s"
> Date: Sunday, January 11, 2009, 12:25 AM
> Hola a todos.. ¿De casualidad alguien sabe algo de Miguel
> Angulo y Maria Antonia Diaz en Tepatitlan?, creo que se
> casaron en 1752 en tonala Jalisco esta familia tuvo a:
> Jose Francisco Angulo casado con Anna María Azeves el 30
> de enero de 1788 en Tepatitlan. ( también busco a los papas
> de Anna Maria)
> También busco a Leonardo Navarro casado con Maria
> Margarita Angulo Navarro el 2 jun 1872 en atotonilco.
> Cualquier información se los agradezco de antemano..
> Gracias
>
> Leticia Reynoso
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail te da 5GB de capacidad.
> http://download.live.com

I started out only doing civil records and used the civil marriage date as
the day the couple was married. I was happy with that until I started
getting records off of Family Search, which only uses church records. The
dates I had and they showed were always different and I wondered why, until
it dawned on me that the civil union was on one day, then the couple would
later get married in the church. So, now I try to get both the civil and
the church record and, in the process, have found additional information
that just one type of record would not have provided. I also get the civil
birth records and the baptisms for the same reason, to get more information
on someone and the family. Of course, now I am to the point where there are
no civil records, pre-1860's, and only then look for church records.

Corrine Ardoin
Santa Maria, California

Hola a todos.. ¿De casualidad alguien sabe algo de Miguel Angulo y Maria Antonia Diaz en Tepatitlan?, creo que se casaron en 1752 en tonala Jalisco esta familia tuvo a:
Jose Francisco Angulo casado con Anna María Azeves el 30 de enero de 1788 en Tepatitlan. ( también busco a los papas de Anna Maria)
También busco a Leonardo Navarro casado con Maria Margarita Angulo Navarro el 2 jun 1872 en atotonilco.
Cualquier información se los agradezco de antemano.. Gracias
Leticia Reynoso
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail te da 5GB de capacidad.
http://download.live.com