Dr.mt

Familia Plascencia

Published by robertfamily2 –
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Buen día , busco referencias de la familia Plascencia, la rama mas alta de mi árbol es Franco. (Francisco) Plascencia casado con Juana Fabiana de Alcalá del Castillo.

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Comentario

Hola-
La siguiente cita es para la partida de matrimonio de Francisco Javier Plascencia con Juana Fabiana de Álcala, quienes casaron el 15 de agosto de 1754, en Jalostotitlán. El es hijo de Antonia Plascencia y padre no conocido y ella hija de don Andrés de Álcala, ya difunto, y María Gómez.
"México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XYZ1-T?cc=1874591&wc=3J4P-… : 28 June 2014), Jalostotitlán > Nuestra Señora de la Asunción > Matrimonios 1748-1768 > image 124 of 723; parroquias Católicas, Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco).

El árbol genealógico de Juana Fabiana se encuentra en el siguiente sitio:
https://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/de%20Alcal%C3%A1-Family-Tree-78

Saludos
Austin Pérez

Comentario

Muchas gracias de verdad por tu información, Austin Pérez (familias_bajio), me gustaría saber si tienes más información acerca de Antonia Plascencia, ya que no he encontrado ni en Wikitree, Familysearch e incluso en el libro de "Retoños de nueva España en Nueva Galicia", muchas gracias de nuevo.

Nicolas Martin & Juana de Avalos

Published by dcalonso –
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Genealogy Research

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum

I’m trying to find out information about Nicolas Martin and Juana de
Avalos, who would’ve been born about 1680 in Jalostotlitlan or San Juan de
los Lagos.

Comentarios

Comentario

Mr. Ricci,

i agree that Juana de Avalos y Villasenor that's married to Francisco de Calderon is definitely connected to this family, especially since she uses both names. My guess is she's born between 1665 and 1675 probably in Fresnillo, Zacatecas. She married Francisco de Calderon probably about 1690 but the records in that area aren't available. But there's so many Avalos y Villasenor families also that it makes it almost impossible to figure out the right one.

Miguel de Avalos y Villasenor was born about the same time and could be a sibling
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_%C3%81valos_y_Villase%C3%B1or-12

This Bernardino de Avalos that married Josefa Perez de Bocanegra in 1664 about the time our Juana de Avalos y Villasenor that married Francisco de Calderon was born and also about the same time as Juana de Avalos married to Nicolas Martin was born, but they have a Juana married to someone else
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Ávalos-31

This Gonzalo de Villaseñor y Zúñiga

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Dear Danny,

A couple of questions came to mind while reading your comments. The first question that Comes to mind is “How are you determining your age estimates?” What evidence do you have for limiting the person to a certain time period? How big is the time window? This is important information to have and share when looking for more information. The second concern I have is that you are looking for Juana De Avalos father with a De Avalos surname. In this time period, a woman is often named after a mother, or grandmother, so she then wouldn’t have her father’s surname. Most, if not all, of your comments about possible fathers to Juana De Avalos have a De Avalos surname. You need to expand your search to include other members of this family tree where the De Avalos surname comes from a grandparent or mother, and not from the father.

Saludos,
Rick A Ricci

Comentario

Mr. Ricci,

I estimated the birth of Juana de Avalos y Villasenor that's married to Francisco de Calderon based on the baptism and marriages of her children. the last baptism i can find was for 1703 for their daughter Josefa, so I figure that Juana de Avalos y Villasenor probably wasn't born before 1660. their daughter that i descend from Leogarda de Villasenor aka leogarda de calderon married in the 1709, so i think she was born around the early 1690s, so i placed her mother, Juana de Avalos y Villasenor's birth between the early 1670s to early 1660s. the other Juana de Avalos that's married to Nicolas Martin was probably born a little later maybe even 1680, but i don't have a lot of info on them since there's no record at all of a Nicolas Martin or Juana de Avalos on Family Search. I based that Juana de Avalos's birth on her daughter Theresa Martin aka Theresa Gomez. Theresa Martin/Gomez was married to Antonio Limon, son of Diego Limon and Marta de Ornelas. Antonio Limon's baptism

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Probably, but what about possibly?

When doing genealogy it is important to figure out when a birth or marriage probably occurred to shrink the window that you need to research to make it more efficient. It is helpful to figure these things out to facilitate your research as much as you can. But you must remember to keep in mind the window of possibility is larger, and that you should also try to figure that window to keep open more possibilities.

An example of this is my research on the Ruiz De Esparza line. I looked for answers in the small windows of probability, but it was only while also keeping in mind the much larger window of possibilities that I was able to piece together the true line that shows that all the men in the line having children at much older age for five straight generations, leading the family to having much fewer generations than expected for over two hundred years, from the 1500’s to the late 1200’s

Another example is finding wives that are not close to

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Mr. Ricci,

thank you for your information. I'm pretty open on a window for Juana de Avalos that's married to Nicolas Martin. I can't find a single record of them at all except their mention on their daughter Theresa Gomez marriage to Antonio Limon in 1717, so she could be born probably as early as 1655 and as late as the 1680s. With Juana de Avalos y Villasenor that's married to Francisco de Calderon, I think her window is much more narrow since I know she had children as late as 1703 and since most women can't have children that old, I'm guessing she wasn't born much earlier than 1660 if at all. This Juana de Avalos y Villasenor also had a daughter that married in 1709 and her age is given as 16, so I have her born in 1693. But, I've seen those ages off by a few years, so she could probably be as old as 20, that would make her mother, Juana de Avalos y Villasenor, too old to have children if she was born before 1655 and too young to have children if she was born after 1677, so she

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Thanks Danny for providing much more information that frames the window of possibilities.

I found a Nicolas Martin and Juana Gomez that fit your window and are in Jalisco.

Name Nicolas Martin
gender Male
Wife Juana Gomes
Son Augustin Martin
Other information in the record of Augustin Martin and Gregoria Patino
from Mexico Marriages
Name Augustin Martin
Spouse's Name Gregoria Patino
Event Date 28 Oct 1728
Event Place San Agustin,Ayo El Chico,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name Nicolas Martin
Mother's Name Juana Gomes
Spouse's Father's Name Francisco Garcia
Spouse's Mother's Name Rosa Riso
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCD5-C2M : 10 February 2018), Nicolas Martin in entry for Augustin Martin and Gregoria Patino, 28 Oct 1728; citing San Agustin,Ayo El Chico,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 280,786

Hope this information helps you,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Presiento que esta Juana Avalos casada con Nicolas Martin ,es Juana Gomez Hija de desconocido Gomez y de Agustina Avalos , esta hermana Bernardino, luisa e Isabel de Avalos que estan registrados en el padron parroquial de San Juan de los Lagos de 1679 en estacia de Beatriz Gomez (Sanchez de Lara) ahi aparece tambien Mencionado a Nicolas Martin en esta enstancia

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Presiento que esta Juana Avalos casada con Nicolas Martin ,es Juana Gomez Hija de desconocido Gomez y de Agustina Avalos , esta hermana Bernardino, luisa e Isabel de Avalos que estan registrados en el padron parroquial de San Juan de los Lagos de 1679 en estacia de Beatriz Gomez (Sanchez de Lara) ahi aparece tambien Mencionado a Nicolas Martin en esta enstancia

Comentario

oh Wow, that's definitely the same Juana Gomez aka Juana de Avalos. Thank you so much. this is great. Now I need to determine who the Juana de Avalos y Villasenor married to Francisco de Calderon is.

Comentario

There are other De Avalos and Gomez connections

Here is a second one:

1) Sebastian de Avalos and Mariana de Castro
2) Augustin de Avalos and Magdalena Ruiz
3) Ysabel Ruiz de Villasenor and Mathias Gomez
4) Maria Gomez and Ruiz cc Nicolas de Castaneda

Here is a third one, They say the third one is the charm!

1) Alfonso Perez and Isabel Gomez
2) Gaspar Fernández de Palos (born in Portugal) and María Retamosa (daughter of Juan Rodriguez Echeverría and Beatriz Retamosa y Macias Valadez)
3) María de Retamosa (Gomez) and Francisco De Avalos
4) Agustina de Avalos and Pablo Ramirez (Gomez?)
5) Juana De Avalos (Gomez)
Is this Juana De Avalos (aka Gomez) the same one that is married to Nicolas Martin? The years and the location fit, and so does the mother’s name if PPChuy is right that her mother is named Agustina De Avalos.

R.A.Ricci

Comentario

Mr. Ricci

Its definitely the same Juana de Avalos. They're in the same exact timeframe and location and they have a Nicolas Martin, plus I looked at the dispensas and they repeatedly married with other Gomez, Limon and Martins. Here is one dispensa:

Jalostotitlán. Jal. Abril 5 de 1747. Exp. 52.- Dispensa de cuarto grado puro de
consanguinidad.- Juan Manuel Martín, español de 25 años de edad, originario y
vecino de esta feligresía, hijo legítimo de Theodoro Martín y de María Ana
Gómez: con Luciana de Avalos, española de 27 años de edad, originaría y vecina
de esta feligresía en el puesto nombrado la Sienega, hija legítima de Miguel de
Avalos, difunto y de Catharina Cordero. Declaración de Joseph Seferíno de Escoto
y Tovar, español de 25 años de edad, pariente de los pretensos en cuarto con
quinto grado: Agustina de Avalos, bisabuela del pretenso, y Bernardino de
Avalos, bisabuelo de la pretensa fueron hermanos que es primer grado, que Juana
Gómez, abuela del pretenso y María de

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On this passage from Rodolfo Hernandez Chavez that Salvador posted what are they saying about how Juana Gomez and Agustina de Avalos are related to the other Avalos?

registrada en los padrones de 1670 como “Rancho de Beatriz Gómez”, y en los de 1672, 1673 y 1679 como “Estancia de Beatriz Gómez”, donde vivía en compañía de sus hijos y nietos-, a: Ysabel de Avalos/Ysabel Sanchez Carranza, mujer de José Leonel de Cervantes y Orozco, indiscutiblemente su consanguíneo por ser hijo de Leonel de Cervantes y de Doña Leonor de Orozco; Agustina de Avalos, madre de Juana Gómez; Luisa de Avalos, esposa de José Soto, registrados con rancho propio en 1679; y Bernardino de Avalos, esposo de su consanguínea Doña Josefa Pérez de Bocanegra y Sánchez de Avalos. Todos ellos referidos en las informaciones matrimoniales como “hermanos carnales”, cuyos descendientes según los propios registros sacramentales hicieron uso del apellido compuesto “Avalos-Villaseñor...”

Comentario

Dear Danny,

I agree with you and ppchuy that We have found that Juana De Avalos aka Gómez is the daughter of Agustina De Avalos. The search now focuses on Agustina De Avalos and her husband.,

I found an Agustina De Avalos that was married to Pablo Ramirez. There is a Gomez connection between a Ramirez family in this area where two brothers used the surname Ramirez while a third used the surname Gomez. I descend from this family through both the Ramirez brothers and the Gomez brother. Sor Juana Inés De la Cruz descends from one of these Ramirez brothers. I believe that Pablo could descend from this family. If this is the ame Agustina then we have her parents names, Francisco De Avalos and Maria Retamosa.

Since Luisa De Avalos is married to José de Soto., I wonder if Nicolas Martin is actually Nicolas Martin De Sotomayor and you have two sisters marrying two brothers. This is just speculation on my part.

Here are some more records to research:

Pablo Ramires
Spouse's Name Agustina

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Dear Danny,

Have you found any information regatding Agustina de Avalos that would help find her parents and ancestors? I wonder if she is related to Beatriz Gomez (Sanchez de Lara). What else do you know about Beatriz Gomez (Sanchez de Lara)?

I have no evidence to show if she is the same Agustina De Avalos that is married to Pablo Ramirez..

I do not descend from Nicolas Martin and Juana de Avalos (aka Gomez), but as often happens when helping others with their research, I found some information on my own ancestors. I found information on my Marin de la peñalosa ancestors connecting them to my Villaseñor Cueva ancestors. I discoverered that they have a common ancestor in Spain.

Thanks,
R.A.Ricci

Comentario

Mr. Ricci,

She's definitely connected to Beatriz Gomez (Sanchez de Lara) according to the genealogist Rodolfo HErnandez Chavez that wrote the recuerdos de Encarnacion. So, im sure he's right. From the looks of the Agustina de Avalos that's married to Pablo Ramirez, if they're espanoles, i'd say its probly definitely them. but i cant find the record. But since it says their parents are Francisco de Avalos and Maria de Retamosa, I'm guessing they're espanoles. If those are the parents of my Agustina de Avalos, id be one step closer. But, i don't know who the parents of Francisco de Avalos is. Here is what the Rodolfo HErnandez Chavez says about them in a post from Salvador a while back:

Publicación de Rodolfo H Hernández Chavez:
"...También originario de Úbeda, en los Reinos de Castilla, fue Don Gonzalo de Avalos, encomendero de Zacapu en Michoacán, hijo de Pedro de Avalos y de María de Muñoz, hijodalgo notorios; a quien el Gran Maestro Don Mariano González Leal señala como posible

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Thanks Danny for the information. It will help me with my research. I saw a record of a child with parents Francisco De Avalos and Maria Espitia. I was wondering if this is the same Francisco De Avalos that is married to Maria Retamosa. I have not found any records of Maria Retamosa’s ancestors with the Espitia surname so I don’t think that Maria Espitia and Maria Retamosa are the same person.

Thanks again,
R.A. Ricci

Comentario

Agustina de Ávalos that’s mother to Juana Gómez is already known to be the daughter of María Sánchez and unknown Ávalos based on the dispensas. That María Sánchez is also known to be the sister of a Mateo Sánchez, both of those Sánchez would’ve probably been born between 1600 and 1625. Agustina de Ávalos is also, based on the dispensas, the sister of Isabel de Ávalos, Luisa de Ávalos, and Bernardino de Ávalos that’s married to Josefa Pérez de Bocanegra. All of these Ávalos siblings I think were born between 1635 and 1655. María Sánchez is probly the daughter of Beatriz Gómez aka Beatriz Sánchez de Lara

Comentario

There is a big thread to pull here. Bernardino de Ávalos that’s married to Josefa Pérez de Bocanegro are closely related. If we could find the dispensation that explains how they are related then we would know much more about Bernardino and Agustina De avalos ancestry.

Beatriz Gomez Sanchez De Lara (aka Sanchez De Carranza) has a nephew with the surname Sanchez De Mendoza. The surnames that Beatriz, her descendants and her nephew used leads me to believe that Beatriz descended from a daughter of toribio Hernandez Arellano and Isabel Mendoza. I suspect that her husbands side of the family gives the family the Villaseñor Tovar surname.

Thanks for the info,

Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Agustina de Avalos and Bernardino de Avalos are brother and sister which is proved by this dispensa for their great grandchildren Juan Manuel Martin's marriage to Luciana de Avalos:

Jalostotitlán. Jal. Abril 5 de 1747. Exp. 52.- Dispensa de cuarto grado puro de
consanguinidad.- Juan Manuel Martín, español de 25 años de edad, originario y
vecino de esta feligresía, hijo legítimo de Theodoro Martín y de María Ana
Gómez: con Luciana de Avalos, española de 27 años de edad, originaría y vecina
de esta feligresía en el puesto nombrado la Sienega, hija legítima de Miguel de
Avalos, difunto y de Catharina Cordero. Declaración de Joseph Seferíno de Escoto
y Tovar, español de 25 años de edad, pariente de los pretensos en cuarto con
quinto grado: Agustina de Avalos, bisabuela del pretenso, y Bernardino de
Avalos, bisabuelo de la pretensa fueron hermanos que es primer grado, que Juana
Gómez, abuela del pretenso y María de Avalos, abuela de la pretensa, fueron
primas hermanas que es segundo grado

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Hi Danny

I have so many branches that dead end at different Juana de Ávalos, including a Juana de Ávalos y Villaseñor that’s married to Francisco de Calderón sometime towards the end of the 1600’s in Fresnillo, Zacatecas. I’m inclined to agree with Rick’s theory. I don’t think Nicolás Martín is an indio with two names. Nicolás Martín was a common name both among the Martín de Sotomayor and among the Martín del Campo.

Chris

Comentario

Chris

Juana de Avalos Villasenor and FRancisco de Calderon are my ancestors to through Jose Diaz de Sotomayor and Leogarda de calderon. I acttually kind of thought that Juana de Avalos Villasenor might be related to family Mr Ricci mentioned since she use both Avalos and Villasenor.

Comentario

Hola Danny:

Me he dado cuenta de que algunas familias se establecieron en Colima y de allí pasaron a otras zonas de Jalisco, Zacatecas y Michoacán.

En el libro Andariegos y pobladores en Nueva España y Nueva Galicia en el siglo XVI que está en línea se mencionan varias familias con el apellido Ávalos, tal vez te interese conocerlas porque tienen diferentes ubicaciones.

Saludos

Marcelina

Comentario

Marcelina,

the problem is that there are too many people named Juana de Avalos. There's no way to figure out which is the right one.

Comentario

There are too many Juana De Avalos at about the same time, and in the same region, for it to be a coincidence. I believe that both Juana De Avalos that Chris and Danny mentioned are part of the same greater family tree that I mentioned. I believe that they have an ancestor named Juana De Avalos and that they are named after her. It is also very likely that at least one of their fathers surname is not De Avalos as they are taking the surname from a mother or grandmother. All of this, of course, is speculation on my part. It’s going to take more research and sharing to put the pieces of the De Avalos family together.

Besides sharing the same first name and surname, many of them had different middle names to distinguish them.

Thank you Danny, Marcelina, O.J., and Chris,

Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Another possibility is that Juana descends from this family and that is why we find De Avalos (Davalos) and Gomez in the family surnames. Just throwing out a family line from that area that has both De Avalos and Gomez.

9). Gonzalo de Avalos Tovar de Villaseñor and Antonia Hurtado de Mendoza

10) Gonzalo de Villaseñor Cervantes (b. Abt 1621) (m. 26/Sept/1650) and Juana Gomez de Espejo

11). Gonzalo Villaseñor Y Gomez (b. Abt 1660) ( buried 6/Aug/1733) and Teresa de Alva Bocanegra (m. March 1683, Aguascalientes)

12) Cristóbal Villaseñor y Alva ( bap. 7/Sept/1688 Aguascalientes) and Gertrudis Franco de Paredes.

Good luck,
R.A.Ricci

Comentario

Just a guess from my observations of some patterns I've noticed that may or not apply to your case.

1. All other couples state either Indios or espanoles, except for that marriage.
-- my guess, Antonio Limon is espanol and Teresa Martin is India or mestiza. This is based on that I've seen most people with Limon in that time are Espanol and most Indios have two first names (Nicolas Martin) without a traditional Spanish surname.

2. I have noticed during this period Indios, mestizos, mulatos, and esclabos don't always have a traditional last name or pass it on to their children.

Spanish Abbreviations

Published by makas_nc –
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History, Culture and General Discussion

Abbreviations

https://script.byu.edu/Pages/Spanish/es/givennameabbr.aspx

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Tomas de Villalpando and Michaela Romo de Vivar

Published by gpf13 –
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Genealogy Research

Tomas de Villalpando and Michaela Romo de Vivar had several children, most likely born in Rincon de Romos, which included Juan Villalpando. I have not found their marriage record.

Comentarios

Comentario

George,

Maria Micaela Romo de Vivar was buried 27 Mar 1815 in Rincon de Romos. Her burial record indicates that she was the daughter of José Romo de Vivar and María Martínez de Sotomayor [Libro 1 de Entierros, foja 18b] [Defunciones, 1811-1831 San José de Gracia, Rincón de Romos, Aguascalientes Image 15 / 63]

Al margen: "Rincon Da. Maria Micaela Romo de Vivar Española Adulta"

"En la Capilla del Rincón en veinte y siete de marzo de mil ochocientos y quince Yo el Br. Don Gordiano Alonzo como Ministro de ella y de licencia Parrochi di Sepultura Eclesiastica, adentro con Entierro humilde a Da. María Micaela Romo de Vivar, Española, de edad sesenta y dos años, casada que fue con D. Tomás Villalpando - hija legítima de D. José Romo de Vivar, y de Da. María Martínez de Sotomayor - murió de Hidropesia en esta hacienda - recibió los Sacramentos y para que conste lo firmamos. [ firma ] Joseph Eufrasio Carrillo [ firma ] Gordiano Alonzo de Hinojos

The parents of Thomas de

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Bill

Thank you very much!

With your help, as well as Gloria Delgado's earlier response, I have added much to this family.

I have made some very substantial progress on identifying many of the descendants of Tomas de Villalpando of Leon, GTO and Aguascalients, AGS.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

George, for Thomas Villalpando's marriage to Michaela Romo de Vibar see Aguascalientes, Asientos, Sra de Belen Mat 1767-1780, Image 25.

Don Thomas Ferrer de Villalpando, hijo lex de Don Francisco Antonio Villalpando y doña Petra de la Candelaria Luebana, difuntos by the date of this marriage, 12 Sep 1768.

Doña Maria Michaela Romo de Vibar, hija lex de Don Joseph Romo de Vibar y Doña Maria Martines de Zotomayor.

Gloria Delgado

Comentario

I do not know if these are the same people but I have jose andres Romo de vivar married to MA. Margarita Martines de Soto. They were married on 7 Mar 1734. Jose andres is the son of Nicolas Romo de vivar and Mariana Villalobos Macias y Carillo de Sandi. If these are the same people let me know and I will provide the rest of their ancestors that I have in my records
Rick A Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: gloriad@jps.net
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 19:41:49
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Thomas VILLALPANDO and Maria Michaela ROMO DE
VIBAR

George, for Thomas Villalpando's marriage to Michaela Romo de Vibar see Aguascalientes, Asientos, Sra de Belen Mat 1767-1780, Image 25.

Don Thomas Ferrer de Villalpando, hijo lex de Don Francisco Antonio Villalpando y doña Petra de la Candelaria Luebana, difuntos by the date of this marriage, 12 Sep 1768.

Doña

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There is an Antonio Dionicio Villalpando Married to Barbara Gertrudis Romo de Vivar. Antonio is a brother to Tomas and it looks like Maria Micaela may be the sister of Barbara. M11Oct1752 Aguascalientes. It would be another case of brothers Marrying Sisters.
Rick A Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 07:12:30
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Thomas VILLALPANDO and Maria Michaela ROMO
DE VIBAR

I do not know if these are the same people but I have jose andres Romo de vivar married to MA. Margarita Martines de Soto. They were married on 7 Mar 1734. Jose andres is the son of Nicolas Romo de vivar and Mariana Villalobos Macias y Carillo de Sandi. If these are the same people let me know and I will provide the rest of their ancestors that I have in my records
Rick A Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless

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I forgot to add that Francisco is the son of another Tomas de ViLlalpando and Maria Sotelo. Felipe Luevano and Leonor Contreras are the parents of Petrona de la Candelaria. Francisco M. 8jul1729 Aguas.
Rick A Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 07:22:33
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Thomas VILLALPANDO and Maria Michaela
ROMO DE VIBAR

There is an Antonio Dionicio Villalpando Married to Barbara Gertrudis Romo de Vivar. Antonio is a brother to Tomas and it looks like Maria Micaela may be the sister of Barbara. M11Oct1752 Aguascalientes. It would be another case of brothers Marrying Sisters.
Rick A Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 07:12:30
To:
Reply-To

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I came across the Info Matrimonial for Antonio Dionicio de Villalpando and Barbara Gertrudis Romo de Vivar:

Asientos 23 Sept 1752

"México, Aguascalientes, registros parroquiales, 1620-1962," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DC33-SP3?cc=1502404&wc=M6Q… : 20 May 2014), Asientos > Nuestra Señora de Belén > Información matrimonial 1750-1754 > image 328 of 695; parroquias Católicas, Aguascalientes (Catholic Church parishes, Aguascalientes).

image 328
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DC33-SP3?i=327&wc=M6QX…

his parents: Francisco Villalpando (difunto) and Petra Luebana de la Candelaria
age: 20
from: Tepezala

her parents: Don Andres Romo de Vivar and Maria de Sn. Juan Martines de Soto Mayor
age: 20
from: Rincon de los Romos

Regards
Denise

Comentario

I found another daughter of Don Andres Romo de Vivar and Doña Maria de Sn. Juan Martines de Zotomayor (Sotomayor) :

Doña Maria Margarita Romo de Vivar.

She appears in the Informacion Matrimonial for her marriage to:

Don Marciano Sanchez (son of Don Joseph Sanchez and Doña Ysabel Serrano).

Asientos, 22 Feb. 1752
GS film 1410803
image 459

"México, Aguascalientes, registros parroquiales, 1620-1962," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DC33-S1R?cc=1502404&wc=M6Q… : 20 May 2014), Asientos > Nuestra Señora de Belén > Información matrimonial 1750-1754 > image 459 of 695; parroquias Católicas, Aguascalientes (Catholic Church parishes, Aguascalientes).

Regards
Denise
edit: ps - the testigos are a Serrano and a Romo de Vivar, each married to a woman last name Castorena, and the 3rd testigo is Don Andres Romo de Vivar, unmarried, son of Don Miguel Romo de Vivar and Doña Maria Martinez difuntos.

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Rick,

There was a thread a while back that said that José Andrés Romo de Vivar
was the son of Nicolás Romo de Vivar and grandson of Pedro Romo de Vivar
and Lorenza de Tiscareño (alias Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza).
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/17268 This Nicolás married María de
Villalobos the daughter of my ancestors Salvador de Villalobos Macías
Valadez and Francisca Martín del Campo y López de la Cruz, on 12 February
1684 in Aguascalientes. She was also known as María López de la Cruz which
was also the name of her maternal grandmother. Mariana Villalobos was the
daughter of Nicolás de Villalobos Macías Valadez and Teresa Carrillo de
Sandi and she married Nicolás Romo de Vivar the son of Diego Romo de Vivar
and Luisa de los Angeles on 14 January 1686 in Teocaltiche. The two
families of Nicolas Romo de Vivar and Maria de Villalobos and the Nicolas
Romo de Vivar and Mariana Villalobos was explained by Bill Figueroa in the
same thread I mentioned previously. In another thread I

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I have Luisa as Luisa de los Reyes y Angeles.
Thanks, Rick
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Armando
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 15:30:02
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Thomas VILLALPANDO and Maria Michaela ROMO
DE VIBAR

Rick,

There was a thread a while back that said that José Andrés Romo de Vivar
was the son of Nicolás Romo de Vivar and grandson of Pedro Romo de Vivar
and Lorenza de Tiscareño (alias Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza).
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/17268 This Nicolás married María de
Villalobos the daughter of my ancestors Salvador de Villalobos Macías
Valadez and Francisca Martín del Campo y López de la Cruz, on 12 February
1684 in Aguascalientes. She was also known as María López de la Cruz which
was also the name of her maternal grandmother. Mariana Villalobos was the
daughter of Nicolás de Villalobos Macías Valadez and Teresa

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Comentario

I do too. I shortened the name because it wasn't the focal point of my
message.

Armando

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 8:26 PM, wrote:

> I have Luisa as Luisa de los Reyes y Angeles.
> Thanks, Rick
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Armando
> Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 15:30:02
> To:
> Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Thomas VILLALPANDO and Maria Michaela ROMO
> DE VIBAR
>
> Rick,
>
> There was a thread a while back that said that José Andrés Romo de Vivar
> was the son of Nicolás Romo de Vivar and grandson of Pedro Romo de Vivar
> and Lorenza de Tiscareño (alias Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza).
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/17268 This Nicolás married María de
> Villalobos the daughter of my ancestors Salvador de Villalobos Macías
> Valadez and Francisca Martín del Campo y López de la Cruz, on 12 February
> 1684 in Aguascalientes. She was also

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Thanks to all for the discussion!

The marriage records for the two Villalpandos have their brides:

Barbarba Gertrudis, d/o of Andres Romo de Vivar and Maria de San Juan Martines Sotomayor in 1752. (Asientos marriages, 1744/55, image 140).

Michaela, d/o Joseph Romo de Vivar and Maria Martines de Zotomayor in 1768. (Asientos marriages, 1767/80, image 25).

Thus Jose and Andres are actually the same person: Jose Andres Romo de Vivar? This is certainly suggested by the mother's names being essentially the same.

While I have seen variation in women's names moderately often, it is less common with the men.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comentario

Michaela Romo de Vivar is the daughter of Jose Romo de Vivar, according to the dispensation of her son, Jose Lucas Villalpando, for his marriage to Gertrudis Romo de Vivar (the granddaughter this Jose Romo de Vivar). Jose's wife is not named.

I found this thanks to the work of Claudia Reynoso & her colleagues in the index of the Sagrada Mitra that they are compiling.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

ALONSO DE RUBALCAVA

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
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Genealogy Research

Hola prim@s,

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Comentario

Manny,
When you stated that he was "maestro de la obra de nra sta yglesia",I think the information below, from Retonos, fits your Alonso de Rubalcava, as he was a church architect in two different places.

All this information comes from Mariano González-Leal, Retoños de España;
Tomo IV Vol. II; GONZÁLEZ DE RUBALCAVA -- pp. 293-319.

Don Alonso De ROBALCAVA
Born in 1526 in Las Heras, Palencia (Castilla y León), SPAIN
Father: Don Mateo De ROBALCAVA
Mother: Juana María GONZÁLEZ
The family moves to Nueva Galicia, MEXICO sometime between 1540–1545. Alonzo is about age 14–19.

1548 – Relations with “una India”
Their son Domingo De ROBALCAVA (1548- ) is considered Mestizo

Move: 1560 (about age 34) Pátzcuaro, Michoacán Occupation (1560–1567): The Viceroy of Mexico requested that Alonso use his profession, architect, as an act of mercy (i.e., no pay) for the Augustinian friars. Don Alonso and Fray Jerónimo de la Magadalena worked on the mission, first Catholic outpost in this territory

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Hi Lucy,

Thank you, that is the same Alonso de Robalcava. That he was born in Las Heras, Palencia, is new to me. The other details are super helpful, too.

Here's a link to another NR thread, regarding the testamento of his wife, Beatriz Lopez, and a court case against her brother, Fray Diego de Fuenllana - which gives a partial genealogy:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/24124

Thanks again!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Manny,

I think it's possible that we're wrong about Ruy Gonzalez age. he first appears in 1519 with Narvaez and I think most people estimated he was born around 1490-1495 but it's possible he was 10 years or more older than that in which case it's more than possible

British/Irish nochistlan?

Published by Don_Animas –
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Hi,

1. Has anyone with Ramirez surname from Nochistlan done a DNA test and found British/Irish dna?

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Comentario

Take a look at your DNA results on Ancestry, they may have been revised with the recent increase in the number of reference samples.

My wife originally had about 10% Irish, her ancestors for the last couple of hundred years are all from Mexico, now has gone away.

Comentario

Hi Don,

I agree with George, Ancestry DNA has recently revised their results so it's possible the results are gone. My DNA was revised giving me much more Spanish and Italian and much less Irish and British Isles. But I do still have Irish and British on my Ancestry DNA, although, much less now. And, I don't have any Irish or British ancestors in Mexico. My guess, and it is just a guess, is that since Spain, particularly Galicia and the Basque country were originally one of the nations of the Celts, along with Cornwall in England, and parts of Scotland and Wales, is that AncestryDNA's process is misreading Celtic DNA from Spain with Celtic DNA in Ireland, but like I said it is just a guess. But my tree all all sides goes back much farther than 5 generations and I have no British or Irish ancestors in Mexico.

Chris

Comentario

Hola Don Ánimas:

Uno de mis tíos Ramírez que tiene el nickname Otto Demongin en Ancestry obtuvo un 12% británico.

Marcelina

ARAIZA y MEDINA (Bill Figueroa and Rick Ricci)

Published by gloriad648 –
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Genealogy Research

Juan ARAISA y MEDINA and Maria LOSANO had another son, Gabriel, who married Micaela de BARGAS:

Grabiel ARAISA Lossano
hijo de Jn. de ARAISA MEDINA y Ma. LOSSANO
bap. 19 Mar 1650, Ags, Ags. #299421, C604761

Comentarios

Comentario

Thanks for the information, Gloria. I actually have eleven children for
Juan de Araisa y Medina and María Lozano:

María, b. abt 1631 single, died 1659
Luisa, b. abt 1633 m. Juan de Aguilar y Solórzano
Juana, b. abt 1634 m. Pedro Valenciano
Hernando b. 1637 m. Antonia de Aguilar y Solórzano
Christobal b. 1639 m. Bernarda de Mendoza
Gertrudis b. 1641 m. Pedro de Aguilar y Solórzano
Juan b. 1643 no data
Theresa b. 1646 probably died infant.
Theresa II b. 1647 m. Diego Delgado Cervantes
Gabriel b. 1650 probably died infant.
Gabriel II b. 1651 m. Michaela Fernández de Araujo (aka Michaela de Vargas)
Regards,
Bill

Comentario

Joseph de Aguilar Solorzano was married to Maria Antonia Ysazi (Isassi) Martin del Campo on 25/may 1681 Sta Ma. de los Lagos, Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco Mexico Maria Antonia Isassi is the daughter Nicolas Martin del campo and Sebastian Isassi
Joseph Aguilar Solorzano is the son of Juan de Aguilar Solorzano and Luisa de
Araiza y Medina according to the marriage notes.

If you are up for a REAL CHALLENGE, try looking up Nicolas Lomelin married on 6/feb/1746 to Casilda de los dolores Gonzales in Ocotlan Jalisco Source # 0280893

These 2 are my ancestors, as well as the ancestors of quite a number of nuestros ranchos members from el valle de gpe. These two are ancestors of maria serapiona del refugio perez, the wife of nicolas ramirez
I tried to find the marriage in the film but could not find it. I cannot figure out why I could not find it.

I am speculating that Nicolas is the son of salvador Lomelin and Juana Maria Hurtado de mendoza but I cannot prove this unless I can find that

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Rick,

Have you seen the actual marriage record? Family Search also lists the
marriage of Maria de Yzasi (not Antonia) who married Antonio Vazquez de
Zermeño (Sermeño) on 25 May 1681. The strange thing is that they're listed
for the SAME DATE AND PLACE (Batch M604181 Source Call 0221512). Was it a
double marriage? Were Maria and Antonia sisters or was it a mistake made by
the submitter? Apparently, both IGI records originated from the same
submitter. To find these records, search for Maria de YZASI, then
separately for Antonia de YSAZI. Notice that the surnames are spelled
differently. The parents of the groom and bride are provided.

I am wary of any information found on Family Search until it is verified
against the actual record. I find errors every day. The same goes for some
of the information published in books, even those published by distinguished
genealogists and historians. Unless, of course, it is backed up with the
proper sources. Family Search is a

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Comentario

I noticed the same thing. as to the surname is was spelled many ways and was italian. Isassi is the most common spelling, or at least the one Jaime holcombe used. He did not have these girls, and elvira listed as children of Nicolas martin del campo and sebastiana Isassi but the records have prven that for elvira and antonia. I still need to check out maria married to antonio Vasquez zermeno but when I saw that I speculated that she could be antonias sister.
I share the same thoughts as you do regarding the information we find even in published material that is why i check everything. If Jaime Holcombe, Mariano gonzlez Leal and my tio abuelo Doctor Rito Romo Franco can make mistakes as detail oriented as they are, then we all can and will make mistakes. I have made many and that is why I work so dilligently at correcting mistakes, mine and others. As you have seen I am not the greatest typist and make errors as I type away. I don't bother to correct e-mails but I triple check how I

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I ran across this post while researching Araiza's. I branch of Araiza that is in Etzatlan Jalisco and I'm thinking they are connect to Cristobal Araiza(b.1639)

I am hoping you could help with information on the marriage of Cristobal Araiza and Bernarda Mendoza. Where was this info obtained?

Many Thanks,

Michael Araiza

GEDCOM

Published by Octoberfly –
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Genealogy Research

Hi,

Is the GEDCOM not working at the moment?

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Familia Plascencia

Published by robertfamily2 –
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Buen día, primero muchas gracias por aceptarme en esta página, tengo algunas preguntas, ojalá me puedan ayudar, buscando mi árbol genealógico, me tope con José María Plascencia y con Agapita Huerta me

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola Roberto,

Bienvenidos. Aqui la partida matrimonial de Jose Maria y Agapita. El es viudo de Narcisa? Trujillo, Agapita es hija de Antonio Huerta y de Manuela Casillas:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XYR4-2?i=50&wc=3J4P-BZ9

Aqui el bautismo de su hijo Jose Lino, 27 sep 1828: da nombres de los abuelos, los paternos son Francisco Plasencia cc Juana Fabiana de Alcala:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5XPB-6?i=363&wc=3JXL-R…

Hay que sacar los demas bautismos para verificar los nombres de los abuelos. Aqui se pueden encontrar los archivos de Jalisco. Corresponden con los registros que ya tienes:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5XPB-6?i=363&owc=colle…

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Rodrigo, Rodrigo, Rodrigo Masias

Published by sarod77 –
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Genealogy Research

Since this is about the Macias, this might have been posted already. However it was good practice in creating tree (thanks Manny).

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Juan Gonzalez and Catarina Barrera

Published by dcalonso –
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Genealogy Research

I was wondering whether anyone has any information on this couple Juan
Gonzalez and Catarina Barrera. They would've been born about 1650 in
Aguascalientes probly.

Solar Storm of 1859

Published by alicebb –
Foros
History, Culture and General Discussion

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Researchers,
I ran across an extremely unusual entry for 09/1859 in the Baptisms.
The September 2nd entry is not of a baptism at all, but refers to a celestial event.

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Comentario

So this occurred on September 2, 1859? Interesting. We should all check the church records of our pueblos to see if anyone else had made a log about this event.

Comentario

That's a great idea!  Local clergy with a curious mind would note such a rare natural phenomena.The entry I found was from a small town, but obviously the priest was impressed enough torecord the event and record it "for future generations".  I feel good that I found it and shared it!  

On Monday, September 10, 2018 12:46 PM, "zacatecano020@hotmail.com" wrote:

So this occurred on September 2, 1859? Interesting. We should all check the
church records of our pueblos to see if anyone else had made a log about this
event.

Comentario

Absolutely astonishing, Paco!  Thank you so much.The translation adds so much more to the event to me.I find it moving that the priest found this important enough that he felt he needed to record theevent at the time that it happened, and preserve it's occurrence  for future generations.  That explains the large, prominent "OJO"in the margin, declaring "Look at this--it's not a run of the mill baptismalentry!"  It brings the priest to life and breaks the monotony of reading, and for the priest thewriting of these entries in far away towns over a hundred years ago. Your translation validates the priest's thoughts and actions.  I felt honored to have read it andthe responsibility to share what he had written so long ago. All this is possible thanks to your translation.  I hope others share in this experience.Thanks again,Alice Blake

On Friday, August 17, 2018 6:21 AM, "PacoHernandez73@msn.com" wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Iwpyvou1f4

Comentario

You are welcome Alice.

I am fascinated by astronomy and celestial events, so I was equally fascinated by this entry, which father Joaquin Garcia further adds "for future generations." I was pleasantly surprised that he wrote it in the Baptismal archive, and wrote an almost scientific/historic observational account, not some dire end-of-the-world apocalyptic rant filled with religious overtones. He was a man of reason and science, not superstition.

Glad you liked my transcription and translation.

Steven Hernández

Comentario

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859#cite_note-12

Solar storm of 1859

The solar storm of 1859 (also known as the Carrington Event)[1] was a powerful geomagnetic solar storm during solar cycle 10 (1855–1867). A solar coronal mass ejection (CME) hit Earth's magnetosphere and induced one of the largest geomagnetic storms on record, September 1–2, 1859. The associated "white light flare" in the solar photosphere was observed and recorded by British astronomers Richard C. Carrington (1826–1875) and Richard Hodgson (1804–1872). The now-standard unique IAU identifier for this flare is SOL1859-09-01.

A solar storm of this magnitude occurring today would cause widespread disruptions and damage due to extended outages of the electrical grid.[2][3] The solar storm of 2012 was of similar magnitude, but it passed Earth's orbit without striking the planet.[4]

Carrington flare
From August 28 to September 2, 1859, many sunspots appeared on the Sun. On August 29, southern auroras were

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https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSLZ-XS4?i=501&wc=3PMG…

“Ojo. --- La noche de este día [1º de septiembre de 1859], como al mediar la modorra, apareció una gran columna de fuego rojizo con unas ráfagas blancas, en dirección perpendicular, abrazando de Norte á Oriente, no muy ancha i subió bastante hacia nuestro Zenit, pero nunca llegó a sernos perpendicular; Se fue disminuyendo y retirando por la misma dirección que trajo, y al entrar la Alba, quedó concluida. Cuatro noches antes de ella, hubo otra luz menor, que yo no vi y por lo mismo no la escribo, pero se dice que fue de color amarillo.

Setenta años há, vieron nuestros Padres una Aurora boreal, de esta especie, pero mucho más extensa. Las apariciones de este fenómeno en nuestro País, son tan raras que ello mismo las hace admirar, y por lo tanto, anoto ésta que vi para memoria y noticia cierta y exacta á las futuras generaciones.” . . . [José Trinidad García, 2 de

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Wow, that was really interesting. And, the video was really helpful too.
The priest said a more extensive event happened 70 years ago which would’ve
1789, but since I don’t see anything for that event the parents must’ve
been wrong about that one being more extensive. I wonder what the people
who saw 1859 thought. Most people probably wouldn’t have been as calm
seeing something they’d never have seen before.

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 6:04 AM wrote:

> “Ojo. --- La noche de este día [1 Sep 1859], como al mediar la modorra,
> apareció una gran columna de fuego rojizo con unas ráfagas blancas, en
> dirección perpendicular, abrazando de Norte á Oriente, no muy ancha i
> subió bastante hacia nuestro Zenit, pero nunca llegó a sernos
> perpendicular; Se fue disminuyendo y retirando por la misma dirección que
> trajo, y al entrar la Alba, quedó concluida. Cuatro noches antes de ella,
> hubo otra luz menor, que yo no vi y por lo mismo no la escribo, pero se
> dice
> que fue de color amarillo

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Yes, Indeed.  The video really brings home the enormity of it all!Thanks again!

On Friday, August 17, 2018 3:33 PM, Danny Alonso wrote:

Wow, that was really interesting. And, the video was really helpful too.
The priest said a more extensive event happened 70 years ago which would’ve
1789, but since I don’t see anything for that event the parents must’ve
been wrong about that one being more extensive. I wonder what the people
who saw 1859 thought. Most people probably wouldn’t have been as calm
seeing something they’d never have seen before.

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 6:04 AM wrote:

> “Ojo. --- La noche de este día [1 Sep 1859], como al mediar la modorra,
> apareció una gran columna de fuego rojizo con unas ráfagas blancas, en
> dirección perpendicular, abrazando de Norte á Oriente, no muy ancha i
> subió bastante hacia nuestro Zenit, pero nunca llegó a sernos
> perpendicular; Se fue disminuyendo y retirando por la misma dirección que
> trajo, y al entrar la Alba, quedó

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Wow very interesting indeed....check this out. Confirmation of the events mentioned in the entry you found.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2018SpWea..16..593G (redirected from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859#cite_note-12)

SAO/NASA ADS Physics Abstract Service

Title:
Observations of Low-Latitude Red Aurora in Mexico During the 1859 Carrington Geomagnetic Storm
Authors:
González-Esparza, J. A.; Cuevas-Cardona, M. C.
Affiliation:
AA(LANCE, Instituto de Geofísica, Unidad Michoacán, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, Morelia, México), AB(Instituto de Ciencias Básicas e Ingeniería, Universidad Autónoma del Estado de Hidalgo, Carboneras, Mineral de la Reforma, México)
Publication:
Space Weather, Volume 16, Issue 6, pp. 593-600
Publication Date:
06/2018
Origin:
WILEY
Keywords:
Carrington Event, history of space weather, extreme events, international collaboration
Abstract Copyright:
©2018. American Geophysical Union. All Rights Reserved.
DOI:
10.1029

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My mother’s grandmother, Martina Carlos de Godoy, born November 1849, Tlaltenango, Zac.

Mother recalled the story mentioned by her grandmother, when Martina was a little girl the sky turned dark, the weather was very cold, and little white flakes were falling from the sky.

The locals thought it was the end of the world.

Martina did not indicate if the event was just one day or several. Martina would have been ten years of age during the Solar Storm. This could possibly have been the event Martina mentioned.

Misty

Comentario

It really is. This solar storm was the strongest to hit earth in about 500 years. While some telegraph operators were electrically shocked, others could continue to receive and send messages after having disconnected their power supplies! Can't even imagine the disruptions if it occurred today!

Need help reading a death record

Published by alexfanatico –
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Hello Everyone,
I need help with a death record for Diego de Padilla. I can't figure out what is stated after it says " asi mismo mando inponer cuatro mil ???"

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Comentario

En once dias del mes de Junio del dicho año, murio en esta ciudad, Don Diego de Padilla. Enterre su cuerpo en el convento de San Agustin en entierro propio. Hizo testamento cerrado ante Juan Sedeño, escribano real. Dijo sele dijiese quatrocientas misas rezadas, repartidas en conventos de esta ciudad. Asi mismo mando imponer quatro mil pesos de principal sobre sus haciendas para una capellania en este obispado. Nombro por capellan y patron a su hijo, Don Gaspar de Padilla presbitero. Fueron sus albaceas el dicho Don Gaspar y Don Lorenzo de Padilla, sus hijos, y Doña Ana de Mota, su mujer.

Comentario

Hola a los dos:

La capellanía era un contrato que realizaban las personas adineradas por la que los sucesores entregaban una cantidad a un convento para que utilizara esos fondos y entregara los réditos al capellán que normalmente era un clérigo, era una forma de asegurarle una renta, en ocasiones el fundador no entregaba el dinero al convento sino que garantizaba con sus bienes mediante un censo, algo parecido a una hipoteca. Estas capellanías se iban heredando y duraban cientos de años y causaban restricciones a los herederos de los bienes.

Saludos

Marcelina

Help reading marriage record

Published by andrea_e –
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Genealogy Research

Hello everyone

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Hernan Gonzalez Corona and Diego Gonzalez Corona

Published by ssales1984 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Dear Members,

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Comentario

Hi

I see the names Corona and Nieto on this thread and wonder are these people related to Pedro Nieto that married Josefa Corona from the early 1600s in Pinos Zacatecas?

Comentario

Hola Sergio:

En Querétaro hubo una familia muy rica formada por Don Francisco de Medina Murillo y por doña Isabel González Corona, ésta familia proviene de Extremadura, una de sus hijas llamada María de Medina y Corona se casa con un funcionario llamado Juan Caballero y fueron padres de Juan Caballero de Medina y de otros hijos, éste segundo Juan Caballero fue padre del gran benefactor de Querétaro y de las misiones de las Californias Don Juan Caballero y Osio, una de las hijas pasó a Zacatecas.

Ésta familia tenía terrenos en Sierra de Pinos, en las listas de bautismos de Sierra de Pinos (que subió recientemente jrefugiohermosillo) aparecen varios integrantes de ésta familia ya que eran propietarios de grandes extensiones de tierra en esa región. La hija que pasó a Zacatecas se llamaba Úrsula Caballero de Medina que se casó con Juan Dosal La Madrid y fueron abuelos de doña Rosalía Dosal, primera esposa del Conde de San Mateo de Valparaíso.

La familia González Corona y las que

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can someone help me decipher this page

Published by katy_brecht_quesada –
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https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18379-41013-45?cc=1874591&wc…

i'm having a hard time understanding some parts of this page

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Comentario

This is what I understand:
(real meaning on parentesis)
?word that I am unsure on double question marks??

---y fue su Tio hermano de su sexta abuela Doña Maria si el famoso y memorable Capitan Miguel Caldera, quien por los años de mil quienientos ochenta y dos fue a pasificar a los Yndios de San Luis Miguel Mezquitic, y San Diego Atotonilco, descubrio la mina de San Pedro Potosi, paso de alli al Nayarit, de cuya sierra vajo muchos Yndios que poblo en Huaxuquilla la Alta en San Andres, y en Mezquitic, en donde por el Sr Birrey de nueva España fue ALcalde Mayor: quel año de ochonta y nueve el Sr. Virrey Don Manrrique de Acuña le hiso Capitan Alcalde Mayor de esta Villa y Corregidor de Taltenango, el de noventa y uno de San Luis llevo voluntarios a los Capitanes Yndios de aquellas Naciones a Mexico, quienes dieron a su soberano la obediencia, en manos del sr. Virrey don Luis Velasco segundo deeste nombre, y a su regreso trajo cuatrocientas familias de Tlacaltecos que se repartieron en

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Thank you for this record of the "ordenes" for Josef Tomas Xtobal Villegas, see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DK9X-KQ?i=237&cc=18745…. It fully identifies that Barbara Cabral was married to Antonio Villegas and notes the previous generation (abuelos). This helps me complete the information that has been supplied by Salvador Cabral Valdez, tying my family back to the Caldera family of the late 1500's and early 1600's. I posted my Caldera family history data on my genealogy links.

Thanks so much. It only took me 3 years to find your post!

Ed

Comentario

No problem ed. I should add that some of Salvador cabral's information on jerez lines is wrong, for example he lists Hernan Gonzales y berrocal as a son of Pedro Carrillo Davila and Sancho velmar/Vasquez de tapia when Hernan is too old to be their son

Comentario

Katy,

Yes, it is tough to be sure in any self-published genealogy ancestral line of the dates and names of everyone. I try to get primary sources but they are often times scarce going back to the 1500's.

What date of birth do you have for Hernan Gonzales de Berrocal; I have not found a date of birth for Hernan. For my purposes, I have guessed that he was born about 1560 or so since he was a contemporary (Capitan/soldier) of Capitan Miguel Caldera (1548-1597), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Caldera, and he arguably married Miguel's half-sister.

What date of birth do you have for Pedro Carillo de Avila? I have it as 1532 but, as I review my sources, they all point to Salvador Cabral Valdes as the person primarily responsible for this date.

Thanks!

Ed

Comentario

Katy,

Interesting. Do you have a source for this land grant? I would appreciate it.

Do you know much about Salvador Cabral Valdes? His education? His job? He seems to be an amazing repository of information, understanding the limitations in accuracy when you go back to the 1500-1600's. Most of the time I am content with having an idea of the big picture, then fine tuning it as more information (right or wrong) becomes available. After studying my genealogy for 14 years, I have become quite humble and less dogmatic.

Thanks!

Ed

Comentario

i'm not sure what salvador's job is but his cid caldera, carrillo davila geneaologies aren't the only incorrect ones. he's made mistakes on other lines such as the sanchez castellanos

edit:here's a working link that mentions land grant
http://www.hidrocalidodigital.com/reportajes/articulo.php?idtipo=3&idno…

Familysearch difficulties?

Published by alicebb –
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Good Morning Grupo,
Anyone else experiencing technical difficulties scanning familysearch entries?
For the last few days the site "freezes up" on me after scanning about 30 pages.

Comentarios

Converso

Published by chilerey54 –
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Hola Members, I just wondered if any one heard that Ana de La Mota y Vera (married to un Diego Padilla) ancestors were of Jewish origin.
Ronnie Reynoso
_________________________________________________________________

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Comentario

I havent heard this before! I always seen the Padillas as españoles, who is Gerónimo Ruiz de la Mota? Ana's father? -Daniel

Comentario

To Daniel: re: Geronimo Ruiz de la Mota

Geronimo Ruiz de la Mota came from Burgos - he was one of Cortez's
captains. I believe he founded Chapa de Mota - anyway I have no idea
if he is in any way related to Ana de la Mota who married Diego
Padilla. I've followed the Padilla line but haven't pursued the Mota
line yet.

My comment was simply that this was the only time I've came across the
title of "converso" put on any Mota family.

-Angelina-

Comentario

Hello Daniel, is good to ear something of you. were you in vacation? I send you some question weeks ago but I didn´t received answer.
I have some question for you or anyone, that can help me, I was making some investigation and, I found that my GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGM for my father side was Lorenza De Ruiz Esparza, how was daughter of Lope II Ruiz, Señor De Esparza, and Ana Francisca Navarro De Gabay.
The interesting thing is that Ana Francisca is daughter of Martin Navarro De Gabay and Petronila de Moctezuma who was born in Nochistlan, Zac. about 1550. Do you know if this Petronila have some relation with Moctezuma II?

Best regards
Cristobal Villalobos
-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de mendezdelcamino
Enviado el: Domingo, 12 de Octubre de 2008 05:20 a.m.
Para: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: [Nuestros Ranchos] Converso

I havent heard this before! I always seen the Padillas

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Cristobal,

Who is this Martin Navarro who married Petronilla Moctezuma and what time period are we talking about?

Thanks,

Esther
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from : --------------

Hello Daniel, is good to ear something of you. were you in vacation? I send you
> some question weeks ago but I didn´t received answer. I have some question for you or anyone, that can help me, I was making some investigation and, I found that my GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGM for my father side was Lorenza De Ruiz Esparza, how was daughter of Lope II Ruiz, Señor De Esparza,
> and Ana Francisca Navarro De Gabay. The interesting thing is that Ana Francisca is daughter of Martin Navarro De Gabay and Petronila de Moctezuma who was born in Nochistlan, Zac. about 1550. Do
> you know if this Petronila have some relation with Moctezuma II?
>
> Best regards
> Cristobal Villalobos
> -----Mensaje original----- De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:research-bounces@lists

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Esther,
The information that I have, is that Martin Navarro De Gabay "Hidalgo Español", that was born in Pamplona, Navarra, Spain about 1550.They had 4 sons; Ana Francisca Navarro De Gabay(1570, wife of Lope II Ruiz, Señor de Esparaza, married in 1595 en Nochistlan), Maria Gabay De Moctezuma( about 1580), Cristobal Navarro De Gabay (About 1580), and Juana Navarro De Gabay(about 1585)
And Petronila De Moctezuma have the aditional title "Princesa Imperial De México"
That is all the information that I have.
Best regards
Cristobal Villalobos

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de eaherold@att.net
Enviado el: Domingo, 12 de Octubre de 2008 07:48 p.m.
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Martin Navarro

Cristobal,

Who is this Martin Navarro who married Petronilla Moctezuma and what time period are we talking about?

Thanks,

Esther
--
Esther A. Herold

---------

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Hi Cristobal,
 
I too have the Moctezuma connection.  A few of us on Nuestros Ranchos do :-)
 
Petronila was Leonor Moctezuma (b abt 1525 Mexico City) and Diego Arias de Sotelo's (b abt 1518 Spain; m abt 1539) daughter.  Leonor was Isabel (Ichcaxochitl) Moctezuma (b 6/11/1509 Mexico; d 12/9/1550) and Hernan Cortez's (b 1485; d 12/2/1547) daughter.  Isabel was Motecuhzoma Xocoyotzin (b 1466; d 6/30/1520) and Tecalco's (DOB unk) daughter... so yes, there is not only a connection to Moctezuma but also Hernan Cortez.  Google the story, it is very interesting.
 
Saludos primo!

Published by JUAN_CRISTOBAL… – Lun, 2008-10-13 11:30 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Hi Sandra,
Thank a lot for all the information, I am going to review the Google the
story. For get facts and dates.
Saludos prima.......

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Sandra
Gomez Mendoza
Enviado el: Domingo, 12 de Octubre de 2008 08:54 p.m.
Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Converso

Hi Cristobal,
 
I too have the Moctezuma connection.  A few of us on Nuestros Ranchos do :-)
 
Petronila was Leonor Moctezuma (b abt 1525 Mexico City) and Diego Arias de
Sotelo's (b abt 1518 Spain; m abt 1539) daughter.  Leonor was Isabel
(Ichcaxochitl) Moctezuma (b 6/11/1509 Mexico; d 12/9/1550) and Hernan
Cortez's (b 1485; d 12/2/1547) daughter.  Isabel was Motecuhzoma Xocoyotzin
(b 1466; d 6/30/1520) and Tecalco's (DOB unk) daughter... so yes, there is
not only a connection to Moctezuma but also Hernan Cortez.  Google the
story, it is very interesting.
 
Saludos

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Comentario

Cristobal,
  Can you tell me which is the actual source for the description of Martin Navarro de Gabay as "Hidalgo Español"  from Pamplona and for Petronila de Moctezuma as "Princesa Imperial de México"? Do you or anyone in the group has seen a copy of their marriage record?

Thanks

Jaime

----- Original Message -----
From: jcvillalo@prodigy.net.mx
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 8:50:53 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Martin Navarro

Esther,
The information that I have, is that Martin Navarro De Gabay "Hidalgo Español", that was born in Pamplona, Navarra, Spain about 1550.They had 4 sons; Ana Francisca Navarro De Gabay(1570, wife of Lope II Ruiz, Señor de Esparaza, married in 1595 en Nochistlan), Maria Gabay De Moctezuma( about 1580), Cristobal Navarro De Gabay (About 1580), and Juana Navarro De Gabay(about 1585)
And  Petronila De Moctezuma have the aditional title "Princesa Imperial De México"
That is all

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Hello All its, Daniel! Anyway I can say something about this topic, Martín is stated as Hidalgo if im correct
in the book "Nochistlán" is it liñajes; I just know that part of the name not sure extct the name of it, but think
someone here owns it. Petronila is also know to be grandaughter or gret grandaught of the Aztec emperor
whether which line you believe is correct the Valderrama or Cortés line? I accpet the Cortés line to be
more accuarte. the book talks about the couple first spanish family of Nochistlán or back then it was
called Guadalajara de Nochistlán. Most spanish families tended to be hidalgos according to the research weve
done, hidalgos are just the lower class of the nobility often friends of the King but not peers. -Daniel
P.S. a great example would be HErmosillo family as a friend and Hidalgo but Esparza were titled and therfore
a peer.
_________________________________________________________________
Get Windows Live and get whatever you need, wherever you are.

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hi cristobal everyone my fathers line goes to the montezuma line from what i can tell and still have some brickwalls as i cant find records pertaining to other lines of my fathers families. this is what i haves

Maquitzin
18th great-grandmother
Don Diego Tlilpotonqui
Son of Maquitzin
Acatlan (1485 - 1525)
Daughter of Don Diego Tlilpotonqui
Marina Leonor Montezuma (1510 - 1562)
Daughter of Acatlan
Leonor Valderrama De Montezuma (1525 - 1562)
Daughter of Marina Leonor Montezuma
Petronila Sotelo De Montezuma (1552 - 1651)
Daughter of Leonor Valderrama De Montezuma
Juana Navarro (1542 - )
Daughter of Petronila Sotelo De Montezuma
Magdalena De Isla De Lavazzari (1545 - )
Daughter of Juana Navarro
Concepcion Gonzalez Martinez (1600 - )
Daughter of Magdalena De Isla De Lavazzari
Diego Delgadillo
Son of Concepcion Gonzalez Martinez
Juan Delgadillo
Son of Diego Delgadillo
Jose Regino Delgadillo (1730 -

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some of my families were sephardic jewish or crypto jews as they called them back them. i came across some newspapers clippings revolving the caravals and other related families. on december 8, 1596 the family was paraded through the streets and then executed to their death by burning them at the stake. it was also noted that one of my grandfathers back then had thrown himself to his death through a window during the inquisitions. petronila montezuma is my 13th great grandmother who had married martin navarro de gabay in my records that i haves.

Comentario

what were the name of the sons?
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from : --------------

> Esther, The information that I have, is that Martin Navarro De Gabay "Hidalgo Español", that was born in Pamplona, Navarra, Spain about 1550.They had 4 sons; Ana Francisca Navarro De Gabay(1570, wife of Lope II Ruiz, Señor de Esparaza, married in 1595 en Nochistlan), Maria Gabay De Moctezuma( about 1580), Cristobal
> Navarro De Gabay (About 1580), and Juana Navarro De Gabay(about 1585) And Petronila De Moctezuma have the aditional title "Princesa Imperial De
> México"
> That is all the information that I have.
> Best regards
> Cristobal Villalobos
>
> -----Mensaje original----- De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de
> eaherold@att.net
> Enviado el: Domingo, 12 de Octubre de 2008 07:48 p.m.
> Para: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Martin Navarro
>
> Cristobal,
>

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In reference to you question about Ana de La Mota being of Jewish
origin.....I found a book on Google, "Conquest" by Hugh Thomas, that makes
reference to Geronimo Ruiz de la Mota as being from a Converso family. That
is all I can tell you. Ana and Diego are in my family tree, I don't recall
coming across any other reference to Conversos.

-Angelina Markle-

Herrera surname Tlaltenango, Zacatecas - Aguajes

Published by lunalatina1955 –
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It's been a long time since I've posted.

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Lino

Published by alicebb –
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Hello Group,
Could someone please tell me if the name Lino is a short form or nickname
for another name. Thanks so much.
Alice BB

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Comentario

Lina: Adelina, Carolina, Catalina, Marcelina, Ursulina, etc.

Lino: Avelino, Paulino, Marcelino, etc.

Comentario

Thanks so much for your help.
I just wasn't sure if it was a nickname or not,
as it was used in official documents in the 1700's.

Thank you again.

Alice BB

Published by Marcelina_Macias – Mar, 2018-09-04 15:45 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Hola Alice:

El nombre Lino existe desde la antigüedad, se refiere al San Lino , Segundo Papa de Roma.

Saludos

Marcelina

Comentario

Hola Marcelina,
So are you saying that the name Lino is not necessarily a nickname,
but a name unto itself?

Thanks for your reply.

Alice

Comentario

Yes, Alice. Lino can be a name by itself. Generally nicknames aren't used in church records.

Comentario

Hi Rosa,
That makes so much sense, especially in the 1700's.
Just wanted to consult my group expertise, before I
came to any definitive conclusion!
Thank you grupo for all your help.
Alice

Published by Marcelina_Macias – Jue, 2018-09-06 21:57 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Hola Alice:

Existió una costumbre, especialmente en el siglo XIX, de que el cura elegía el nombre del niño y le ponían el nombre del santo que se conmemoraba el día del bautizo. Por ejemplo si un niño o niña se llamaba María Dolores o José Dolores probablemente fue bautizado el día Viernes de Dolores, una semana antes de la pascua.

Se puede consultar cualquier "santoral" en línea.

El día que se recuerda a San Lino, papa mártir es el 23 de septiembre.

http://www.preguntasantoral.es/2015/09/san-lino-papa-martir/

Saludos

Marcelina

Villalpando marriages from Asientos 1757/67

Published by gpf13 –
Foros
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These marriages have not been extracted from the Asientos film entitled Matrimonios 1751/61 (note error in date, this is actually 1757/67:

12 Sep 1757 (images 7-80

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Comentario

Hi George

Regarding this marriage:

19 Feb 1765 (image 159)
• Balentin Juan Nepomuceno Serrano, s/o Miguel Serrano and Monica Quiteria Quintana
• Maria de la Luz Lopes alias Villalpando, d/o Nicolasa Francisca Lopez, and padrfe no conosido

Monica Quiteria Quintana is named as Monica Quiteria Billalpando in this 22 July 1757 Asientos Info Matr of:
-Monica Antonia Moscoso (mestiza) and
-Antonio Basilico Serrano (esp.), who is Monica Quiteria Quintana's (Billalpando) son.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6769-4Z7?i=37&wc=M6QX-…

This means that in the 19 Feb 1765 marriage there may have been a dispensa, as its a Villalpando marrying a Villalpando.

Regards
Denise

Comentario

George,

Thanks for sharing these with the groups, I know you have been working lots on the Villalpando. I do have a question though, the following record:

31 Aug 1758 (images 32-33)
• Antonio Mendes Ydalgo, s/o Juan Ygnacio Mendes Ydalgo and Maria Gertrudis Ponce de Leon
• Anna Maria Gertrudis de Villalpando, d/o Eusebio de Villalpando and Nicolasa Francisca Lopez; vda Juan Darien Chispas

I descend from Maria Manuela Mendez Hidalgo she was born ca. 1725 in San Luis Potosi, have you found any additional info on this family while researching. I know there were some brances in Asientos, Pinos, Santa Maria de los Lagos and Mexico City. It appears this family may have originated near or around Santa Maria del Rio, San Luis Potosi. Nevertheless, this family settled in parts of Nueva Galicia.

Regards,
Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino

Cuquio Gonzalez & Placensia

Published by ArturoG –
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Genealogy Research

Does anyone have information about Yldelfonso Gonzalez Placensia born around 1680 in Cuquio? He is the son of Maria Ana Placensia and unknown Gonzalez.

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Comentario

A couple of things:

First, here's the link to the dispensa with the claim Ildefonso Gonzalez Placensia and Petrona Gutierrez second cousins. See Image 341:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-613G-D?i=337&wc=125127…

Second, I came across the larger discussion from 2015 about the Placensia line:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18788?page=2

Third, I believe that my Gonzalez line descends from the same Gonzalez line as that of the unspecific father of Ildefonso Gonzalez Placensia. My paternal DNA is an identical match of the male descendants of Atanacio Gonzalez, illegitimate son of Gervacio Gonzalez in Ixtlahuacan del Rio. There is only one "Gervacio Gonzalez" that I've found in Cuquio/Ixtlahuacan so I believe that so my working hypothesis is this is my genetic relative. My hope is to find a male descendant of Ildefonso Gonzalez Placensia to check for a DNA match. (PS. I've hit a brick wall on Gonzalez line from La Villita in Jalpa with Sebastian Gonzalez

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Dang, thats a tough one! I can't add any real new info. The only Mariana that I have in my tree that fits is the daughter of Pedro Plascencia Maldonado, who eventually married Melchora de los Reyes Moscoso y Sandoval and not confirmed to be Mariana's mother. This Mariana I have no husband for and is the mother Clemente de Lomelin.

There is also Marina Plascencia Maldonado who is the daughter of Francisco Plascencia Maldonado and Antonia Arias Avella Valadez. I have no husband or descendants for her.

Felipe Neri de Alba 1730- el Tigre Encarnación de Diaz , Jalisco

Published by Mar_Contreras –
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Estoy buscando los padres de Felipe Neri de Alba , el habitaba en el Tigre , Encarnación de Diaz , Jalisco.

Su esposa es Maria Ignacia Josefa Ximenez
y sus hijos son

Maria Alba Ximenes

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola Mar.

Podría ser que ésta pareja que residía en la "Hacienda del Lobo" y bautizó a sus hijos José Antonio (Ago.27/1741) y Benito (Mar.27/1744) en Sierra de Pinos, Zac. sean los mismos padres de los hijos ya mencionados considerando que "El puesto del Tigre" también se encontraba en la zona donde actuálmente confluyen los límites de los estados de Aguascalientes, Jalisco y Zacatecas.

Bautismo de José Antonio (En la parte superior de la hoja del lado izquierdo. La partida comienza en la imagen anterior núm. 195):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-Y52X-Z

Benito, bautizado en la capilla de la misma Hacienda (Ultima partida de la hoja del lado izquierdo):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-Y5N1-3

También podría haber algunas pistas en el siguiente artículo donde se menciona que "El Tigre" colindaba con el "Sauz de los Macías" y pertenecía a "los herederos de Don Alonso de Alva y Arenas".

http://www.historiasyrecuerdosdeencarnaciondediaz.com/macias

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