Dr.mt

Looking for Mena's in El Jaralito Jalisco Mexico

Published by Laurie_Machen –
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Genealogy Research

My grandfather Jose Mena, I was told he was born in 1904 Union de San Antonio, Jalisco, Mexico.
He married Juana Valderrama in Los De Moreno on February 1 1923. She was born 1907 in same town.

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Guadalupe Mena Border Crossing.jpg (792.13 KB)
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Comentario

El Jaralito is probably a ranch and not a town. People from the ranches had to go to the towns to have their children baptized and to get married.

There is a ranch called El Jaralito just north of Lagos de Moreno.

http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/mapas/el-jaralito-4

There is also a ranch between Unión de San Antonio and Lagos de Moreno called El Jaralito de Vega

http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/mapas/el-jaralito-de-vega

Lagos de Moreno means Lakes of Moreno. It was originally called Santa María de los Lagos when it was founded in 1563. Then in 1817 an insurgent, of mostly Spanish ancestry, died in a battle against Spain for the independence of Mexico. Santa María changed it's name to Lagos de Moreno in honor of Pedro Moreno. http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Moreno_%28insurgente%29

Armando

Comentario

Laurie Machen
Thank you for all your help. Do you know of a mountain called the round table or Mesa de Redonda or La Mesa. My Aunt Cookie told me when she was 7 years old, she went to Lagos de Moreno to visit her grandparents. This mountain was by there house. so I'm thinking my family came from El Jaralito de Vega ranch, that you sent me the info on but not sure. Talk to you soon Laurie

Comentario

My grandparents used to take the family camping there. They would purposely take very few belongings to rough it.

It was called La Mesa Redonda de los Villalobos from shortly after the year 1700 to sometime just before 1900. It was owned by my ancestor Salvador de Villalobos and it passed down through the centuries through the Villalobos family until the hacienda was broken up into smaller ranches and the hacienda changed names.

La Mesa Redonda is not really a mountain. It's a small mesa. Even in the U.S. they are called mesas instead of mountains. It's a mesa that is very well known in the area since it is so tall compared to the surroundings which makes it stand out. It's located within the boundary of Lagos de Moreno next to the Aguascalientes-Encarnación de Díaz highway (45d) that passes between Lagos de Moreno and Unión de San Antonio just north-west of El Jaralito. There is another mesa there that is shorter but much wider that shows up in Google Maps as Cerro de la Mesa and

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Looking for Armando........
The last time I talked to you was about 2 years ago. When I started working on My Mena family tree. I have found a lot of information since then. You mention your family owned La Mesa Redonda de los Villalobos from shortly after the year 1700 to sometime just before 1900. It was owned by my ancestor Salvador de Villalobos and it passed down through the centuries through the Villalobos family. I found that my great uncle Cirilo Mena Birth ABT 1924 in Jalisco, Mexico married a woman named Vicenta Villalobos Birth ABT 1929. Is she related to you? Do you live in the USA. I hope this message finds you.

Capitán Pedro de Anda Altamirano.

Published by Ramirez –
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Hola amigos, tengo una duda desde hace vario tiempo y es que en el IGI está un registro en el que se menciona al Capitán Pedro de Anda Altamirano, quien casó con Catalina Saenz de Vidaurre el 28

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Published by victorianonavarro (no verificado) – Dom, 2015-03-01 11:06 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Estoy revisando el rollo de Familysearch de México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979: Guadalajara: Diócesis de Guadalajara: Ordenes 1614-1668: 661-663 y encontré información de un cura llamado Lorenzo de Anda Altamirano, cuyos padres fueron el Capitán Pedro de Anda Altamirano & Catalina de Bidaurre, su legítima mujer; sus abuelos paternos Estevan de Anda y María de ¿?rrona, su legítima mujer; y sus abuelos maternos Juan Saens de Viraurre & Luysa de Saave-dra, su mujer legítima.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18378-28944-48?cc=1874591&wc…

Villa de los Lagos, 1666
Lorenzo de Anda Altamirano, Pedro de Anda Altamirano, Catalina de Vidaurre, Esteban de Anda, María -rrona, Juan Sáenz de Vidaurre, Luisa de Saavedra.

Saludos cordiales,
Victoriano Navarro

Comentario

Yo soy descendiente del hermano de Lorenzo de Anda Altamirano, Esteban de Anda, por alguna rama de mi familia. Pero en mi árbol (medio completado automáticamente en wikitrees y Familysearch) me aparecen como abuelos paternos Esteban de Anda y Catalina López de Portugal. María de Arrona aparece en mi árbol como bisabuela de Lorenzo y madre de Catalina López de Portugal. Quizás haya algún error, tendré que checarlo.

Con respecto al documento que compartes, no entiendo exactamente qué es...no es información matrimonial ni acta de nacimiento. Parece una especie de declaración?? Leí (traté de leer) todo el acta y en la página siguiente dice algo sobre ser libre de toda mala raza de moros, Moriscos, judíos y no? convertidos a la fe católica... me parece interesante, ya que estoy tratando de averiguar si entre mis antepasados habrá judíos conversos!

En fin, gracias por subir ese enlace.
Saludos,
Flora

Comentario

Jorge,

Según Jaime Holcombe, el Capitán Pedro de Anda Altamirano, quien fuera
casado con Catalina Sáenz de Vidaurre y Saavedra, era hijo de Esteban de
Anda Altamirano y Catalina López de Portugal. Hablando de Diego Gómez de
Portugal, padre de Catalina, dice Holcombe que un documento de 1608 que se
encuentra en el Archivo General de Indias, se menciona que Diego era "Juez
de Mesta y Hermandad" cuando heredó "Taliscoya". Aún vivía en 1635 cuando
dos de sus hijas, Magdalena y Angelina, contrajeron matrimonio el 18 de
febrero de ese mismo año. (LDS Film 0221879 Matrimonios 1583-1590 1605-1638
Santa María de los Lagos, Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco). Aparentemente Diego
murió a los pocos meses, como se encuentra registrado en el "moribus et
vita" de uno de sus hijos. Su viuda, María García de Arrona, todavía vivía
el 2 de julio de 1652, cuando fue madrina de bautizo de un nieto o nieta (no
especifica). Por entonces tenía como 80 años.

Mas adelante menciona que su hija

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I have seen several mentions of records by Jaime Holcombe. How do you access his information? Are there certain batch numbers?

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Figueroa
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos]Capitán Pedro de Anda Altamirano.

Jorge,

Según Jaime Holcombe, el Capitán Pedro de Anda Altamirano, quien fuera
casado con Catalina Sáenz de Vidaurre y Saavedra, era hijo de Esteban de
Anda Altamirano y Catalina López de Portugal. Hablando de Diego Gómez de
Portugal, padre de Catalina, dice Holcombe que un documento de 1608 que se
encuentra en el Archivo General de Indias, se menciona que Diego era "Juez
de Mesta y Hermandad" cuando heredó "Taliscoya". Aún vivía en 1635 cuando
dos de sus hijas, Magdalena y Angelina, contrajeron matrimonio el 18 de
febrero de ese mismo año. (LDS Film 0221879 Matrimonios 1583-1590 1605-1638
Santa María

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Hi Emilie,

I have have a copy of Jaime Holcombe genealogy which he entitled, Nosotros. I was to publish his work, but he needed to make some corrctions. He pass on before he could get back with me. If you, Nuestros Ranchos, feels that it would be of value I could try and located his family and obtain permission to make copies.

Let me know you feelings.

Carlos M. Yturralde
Hispanic Heritage Project

---- Emilie Garcia wrote:
> I have seen several mentions of records by Jaime Holcombe. How do you access his information? Are there certain batch numbers?
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill Figueroa
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos]Capitán Pedro de Anda Altamirano.
>
>
> Jorge,
>
> Según Jaime Holcombe, el Capitán Pedro de Anda Altamirano, quien fuera
> casado con Catalina Sáenz de Vidaurre y Saavedra, era hijo de Esteban de
> Anda

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Juan de anda altamirano
Juana ruiz de nava
Lagos de moreno, jalisco, mexico

Era entonces hijo de

Pedro de anda altamirano
Beatriz gonzalez de castaneda

Nicolasa de anda-altamirano
Los padres pudieron ser
Esteban de anda-altamirano
Josefa moreno-de-ortega
ANDA, Esteban de
Originario de Lagos, vecino preeminente de esta villa y aparentemente un terrateniente clásico en Sierra de Pinos. Medio hermano del capitán Pedro de Anda. Logró un buen matrimonio en 1607 con una hija de Diego Gómez y, en 1611 fue nombrado alcalde ordinario de Lagos (Calvo, 1989d: 103-105, 107-109 y 112-116; 1992b: 114 y 278).

Español. Medio hermano mayor de Esteban de Anda. Como capitán-protector encargado de la pacificación de los chichimecas en Santa María del Río, Armadillo y Río Verde, entre 1590 y 1601. Antes había sido labrador en la región de San Luis Potosí. Estuvo presente en el descubrimiento de las minas del Cerro de San Pedro, San Luis Potosí, el 2 ó 4 de marzo de 1592. Después

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Comentario

I, for one, would be interested in such a project. Marge:)

On Aug 22, 2009, at 2:51 PM,
wrote:

Hi Emilie,

I have have a copy of Jaime Holcombe genealogy which he entitled,
Nosotros. I was to publish his work, but he needed to make some
corrctions. He pass on before he could get back with me. If you,
Nuestros Ranchos, feels that it would be of value I could try and
located his family and obtain permission to make copies.

Let me know you feelings.

Carlos M. Yturralde
Hispanic Heritage Project

---- Emilie Garcia wrote:
> I have seen several mentions of records by Jaime Holcombe. How do
> you access his information? Are there certain batch numbers?
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill Figueroa
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos]Capitán Pedro de Anda Altamirano.
>
>
> Jorge,
>
> Según Jaime Holcombe, el Capitán Pedro de Anda Altamirano, quien

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Hi Carlos and Emily,

I have only seen bits and pieces of personal letters from Jaime Holcombe
written in the early nineties, before he passed away in 1995. However, I
think you had a great idea, Carlos. It would be great if you could get
permission from his family to make copies of his unfinished book "NOSOTROS".
Jaime was a thorough researcher who spent countless hours working on his
genealogy, shared by many members of Nuestros Ranchos. It could even be
digitized and uploaded to the NR website. I certainly would be one
interested in seeing as much of his work as possible, even if it is not
complete.

BILL FIGUEROA.

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos]Capitán Pedro de Anda Altamirano.

Hi Emilie,

I have have a copy of Jaime Holcombe genealogy which he entitled, Nosotros.
I was to publish his work, but he needed to make some corrctions. He pass
on before he could get back with me. If you, Nuestros

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

I, too, would be interested in reading Mr. Holcombe's notes. He was indeed very thorough, and seemed to have a sixth sense about the research...besides his countless hours!

Connie Dominguez

---- Bill Figueroa wrote:

=============
Hi Carlos and Emily,

I have only seen bits and pieces of personal letters from Jaime Holcombe
written in the early nineties, before he passed away in 1995. However, I
think you had a great idea, Carlos. It would be great if you could get
permission from his family to make copies of his unfinished book "NOSOTROS".
Jaime was a thorough researcher who spent countless hours working on his
genealogy, shared by many members of Nuestros Ranchos. It could even be
digitized and uploaded to the NR website. I certainly would be one
interested in seeing as much of his work as possible, even if it is not
complete.

BILL FIGUEROA.

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos]Capitán Pedro de

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

I`m interested too.
 
Rgds,
 
Juan José Ramírez Ibarra

--- On Sat, 8/22/09, Bill Figueroa wrote:

From: Bill Figueroa
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Capitán Pedro de Anda Altamirano.
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 1:51 PM

Hi Carlos and Emily,

I have only seen bits and pieces of personal letters from Jaime Holcombe
written in the early nineties, before he passed away in 1995.  However, I
think you had a great idea, Carlos.  It would be great if you could get
permission from his family to make copies of his unfinished book "NOSOTROS"..
Jaime was a thorough researcher who spent countless hours working on his
genealogy, shared by many members of Nuestros Ranchos.  It could even be
digitized and uploaded to the NR website. I certainly would be one
interested in seeing as much of his work as possible, even if it is not
complete.

BILL FIGUEROA.

----- Original Message ----- From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Carlos,
What a wonderful idea! I'm sure that the group would find it a great resource and a means for Jaime Holcombe's extensive work to live on.
Alice Blake

--- cyturralde@cox.net wrote:

From:
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Capitán Pedro de Anda Altamirano.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 12:51:03 -0700

Hi Emilie,

I have have a copy of Jaime Holcombe genealogy which he entitled, Nosotros. I was to publish his work, but he needed to make some corrctions. He pass on before he could get back with me. If you, Nuestros Ranchos, feels that it would be of value I could try and located his family and obtain permission to make copies.

Let me know you feelings.

Carlos M. Yturralde
Hispanic Heritage Project

---- Emilie Garcia wrote:
> I have seen several mentions of records by Jaime Holcombe. How do you access his information? Are there certain batch numbers?
>
> Emilie
> Port Orchard, WA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill Figueroa

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Bill, gracias por compartir esta información acerca de Pedro de Anda Altamirano y Catalina Saenz de Vidaurri, pues son mis abuelos, y hacia tiempo que no encontraba una conección solida, pues no se puede confiar, siempre en el I.G.I.  Solamente una cosa más, para que completes el cuadro.
 
Lorenzo de Anda Altamirano &
Getrudis Camacho Riquelme  #  595 (Sagrada Mitra Guadalajara.)
 
Hijos de Lorenzo y Getrudiz Camacho.
Joaquin de Anda Altamirano # 595
Pedro de Anda Altamirano  # 720
Bernardino de Anda Altamirano # 668
Melchor de Anda Altamirano, caso 20 Oct 1711, Jalos. Casó Ma. Muñoz Hermosillo.
 
Pedro y Catalina tubieron un hijo, Lorenzo de Anda que nacio, el 21 Aug 1650, en Lagos
de Moreno.
 
La pregunta es, este Lorenzo hijo de Pedro y Catalina es el mismo Lorenzo casado con
Getrudis Camacho Riquelme.  Te agradecería cualquier información.

--- On Sat, 8/22/09, Bill Figueroa wrote:

From: Bill Figueroa
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Capitán Pedro de Anda Altamirano.
To

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Comentario

Hola Celestino,

Gracias por la información de los descendientes de Lorenzo de Anda
Altamirano y Gertrudis Camacho Riquelme. Precisamente este Lorenzo es el
hijo de Pedro de Anda Altamirano y Catalina Sáenz de Vidaurre, tus
ancestros. Creo que los siguientes datos provienen de Jaime Holcombe, pero
no estoy seguro. Como quiera que sea, vienen del fondo de acervos
notariales del Archivo Histórico de Jalisco o Zacatecas.

Santa María de los Lagos, 6 de octubre 1673. Catalina de Vidaurre, viuda
del capitán Pedro de Anda Altamirano, da poder a su hijo Lorenzo de Anda
Altamirano para vender un esclavo. fjs. (131-131v)

141. Venta de esclavo.
Zacatecas, 24 de octubre de 1673. Lorenzo de Anda Altamirano en voz y poder
de Catalina de Vidaurre su madre, vende a Pablo Nuñez, vecino minero, un
esclavo en 150 pesos en reales. fj. (129v)

Lorenzo tuvo un hermano menor llamado Luis, bautizado el 07 Sep 1653 en
Santa María de los Lagos. No se nada mas de él.

Mañana contesto tus otras

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Comentario

Gracias Bill por aclararme la duda, pero como dijo Celestino, también hay un hijo de Juan de Anda Altamirano y Juana Ruiz de Nava de nombre Pedro de Anda Altamirano quien nació aprox. en las mismas fechas que el Pedro que se menciona como hijo de Esteban y Catalina López de Portugal. Es por ello que se hacia mas grande la duda.

Y pues yo también tengo como padres de Lorenzo de Anda Altamirano a Pedro de Anda Altamirano y Catalina Saenz de Vidaurre. Yo desciendo de dos hijos de Lorenzo de Anda Altamirano y Gertrudis Camacho Riquelme, que son Joaquín, casado con María Magdalena Martín del Campo; y de Pedro, casado con María Clara Pérez Franco.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
Gracias Messenger por estos 10 años
www.aniversariomessenger.com.mx

Beatriz Lopez de Ayala

Published by maven200 –
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Genealogy Research

HI everyone,
This is a repost from a few weeks ago.
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Comentarios

Comentario

Marcelina- Buen consejo. Haria esa búsqueda en siguiente- Gracias

Thanks Obed. Great advice. Maybe someone is looking for her? or Alonso. Hope u are well. Pauline

Comentario

Pauline, this is a very goood question. Hopefully, one of the members can address this question. I've always wondered if there are any communities in europe who are at brick wall when their ancestors records fall off after they left for the new world, and they just need to connect with us who are on this side of the brick wall.

O.E.

Comentario

Hola Pauline:

Los padres de Beatriz fueron Pedro López de Ayala y Teresa de Recalde.

Beatriz pasó con Pánfilo de Narváez y casó tres veces.

Las historias de Alonso de Arévalo y de Beatriz y de los hijos de estos, que son:

1. Pedro López de Ayala
2. Gonzalo López de Ayala
3. Diego López de Ayala
4. Pedro de Arévalo

La historia de estos y sus descendientes se encuentra en el libro Andariegos y Pobladores de Nueva Galicia de Miguel Romero de Solís (pdf) que puedes ver en línea.

Saludos

Marcelina

Comentario

Hola Marcelina,
Gracias por la informacion. Tengo los datos de Andariegos y Pobladores de Nueva Galicia.

Actualmente estoy investigando las raíces de beatriz en España y las de Alonso de Arévalo. Los dos son mis ancestros.
Mi pregunta fue si hay confirmación de su nacimiento en Sevilla ? También, su padre era Pedro Lopez de Ayala . ¿Está relacionado con la casa de López de Ayala de Toledo?

Por favor dejame saber.
Mil Gracias,
Pauline

Comentario

Hola Pauline:

No he estudiado la familia López de Ayala e infortunadamente la Guía General del Archivo General de la Nación no se encuentra funcionando. Pues en esa Guía se encuentran los expedientes de gobernación de la Nueva España.

Hay otras ramas de los López de Ayala, una en el nobiliario de Extremadura y otra en Murcia, ya las consulté pero no pude encontrar alguna relación con los padres de Doña Beatriz.

Saludos

Marcelina

Comentario

Ya tratastes de buscar en la base de datos PARES.

Los primeros archivos en esa base de datos es la tripulación de Colón.

On Sep 16, 2016 11:29 AM, wrote:

> Hola Marcelina, Gracias por la informacion. Tengo los datos de Andariegos y
> Pobladores de Nueva Galicia. Actualmente estoy investigando las raíces de
> beatriz en España y las de Alonso de Arévalo. Los dos son mis ancestros. Mi
> pregunta fue si hay confirmación de su nacimiento en Sevilla ? También, su
> padre era Pedro Lopez de Ayala . ¿Está relacionado con la casa de López de
> Ayala de Toledo? Por favor dejame saber. Mil Gracias, Pauline
>

Comentario

Gracias. En la tripulación de Colon había dos Arévalos. Creo q puede ser el siguiente:

Alonso de Arévalo ballestero de Arévalo.

La única diferencia es su cuidad. ¿Probablemente la familia era de Arévalo en vez de Berlanga?
Pauline

Jose Candelario Delgadillo

Published by DavidVargas –
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Hello, all. I am hoping to get some help finding information for my ancestory, Jose Candelario Delgadillo. He was married 27 June 1773 in Cuquio, Jalisco, to

Leonor Gutiérrez de la Vega o Rubio Godínez

Published by Armando –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Hola a todos,

Hace poco me puse a ver la monografía de Gutiérrez Rubio en *Retoños de
España* y me dí cuenta que Mariano González Leal no tiene a Leonor
Gutiérrez de la Vega como hija de Franc

Comentarios

Comentario

Hay documentacion que diga que Maria Rubio, esposa de Pedro Hernández, fue hija de Francisco Gutierrez Rubio y Ana Gonzalez Floridad?

Sergio Gutierrez

Comentario

Hola Armando,

El verano pasado me encontré varias dispensas donde se aclara el tronco de los Tavera y por supuesto mencionan a Leonor Gutiérrez de la Vega y a Gerónimo-Antonio Tavera. Ahorita estoy en mi trabajo y no tengo mi archivo genealógico conmigo y no dispongo de mis fuentes documentales, solo mi memoria, pero me gustaría comentar sobre ellos ya que son mis antepasados.

Si mal no recuerdo, efectivamente Leonor Gutiérrez de la Vega fue hija de Pedro Hernández y María Gutiérrez-Rubio-de la Vega (alias María Rubio-Godínez), vecinos de Lagos a principios del siglo XVII. Ellos están en el archivo laguense, y por eso también están en el libro de Mario Gómez Mata sobre dicho tema. Es por esta rama de ella que viene el apellido VEGA o DE LA VEGA, y no por Gerónimo-Antonio Tavera, por ser hijo de Nicolás Ramírez de Tavera and Polonia de Torres. Los hijos de Leonor y de Gerónimo-Antonio luego combinaron los apellidos aún más, de tal manera formando el apelativo compuesto TAVERA

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Hola Steven,

Soy descendiente de Leonor Gutiérrez de la Vega y de Gerónimo Antonio
Tavera por medio de su hija Catalina bautizada el 9 de diciembre 1635 en
Lagos y casada con Joseph Macías Valadez y Álvarez.

Tengo un ejemplar del libro de Mario Gómez Mata y he buscado allí y en
FamilySearch y no encuentro hijos de Pedro Hernández y María
Gutiérrez-Rubio-de la Vega (alias María Rubio-Godínez). Lo que si encontré
en el libro de Mario Gómez Mata es que Pedro Hernández alias "El Gallego" y
su esposa María Rubio fueron, junto a otros, fundadores de Lagos de Moreno
en la década de 1560 (páginas 27-28). Eso significa que tuvieron sus hijos
antes de 1615 que es cuando empiezan los registros de bautismo. Así que no
hay bautismos registrados de sus hijos. Aparte, de eso menciona un
documento de 1610, publicado por el historiado Alfredo Moreno González,
donde dice que María Rubio es viuda. (páginas 29-30) y dice que sus yernos
son Bartolomé Martín y Juan López de Lizardi. Por otros documentos

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Comentario

A consecuencia de mi entusiasmo, creo que metí la pata en mi mención de cuales familias había estudiado el verano pasado. Efectivamente era la descendencia de Nicolás (Ramírez) Tavera y Polonia de Torres la que había estudiado el verano pasado. Obviamente entre sus descendientes luego se unen las sangres de las familias Gutiérrez-Orán-de la Vega-Hernández-Rubio-Godínez y muchas otras. Cuando me puse a investigar una familia, también investigué las otras…y creo eso me causó la confusión. Recuerdo específicamente también haber buscado referencias sobre los Hernández-Rubio, y entonces se me cruzaron los alambres. Si no fueron exactamente los que dije, fue simplemente porque estaba en el trabajo y no disponía más que solo de mis recuerdos. No tenía ni mi computadora con mi archivo informático ni mi base de datos. Trataré de ser más precavido en el futuro.

Yo también soy descendiente de Leonor Gutiérrez de la Vega y de Gerónimo-Antonio Tavera por medio de su hija Catalina bautizada

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Comentario

Maria Godinez tambien se encuentra en el bautismo de su hermano Pedro en la parroquia de Santa Maria de los Lagos:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-24186-9?cc=1874591&wc=…

"En veinte y tres de febrero de mil y seiscientos y cinquenta y Un años Bautize a Pedro hijo de antonio tavera y de Leonor Gutierres su mujer. fueron sus padrinos Niculas de Cordova, vecino de La puebla: y maria godines hija de dicho antonio tavera
Francisco perez Rubin"

Austin Perez

Comentario

Hola Steven y Austin,

Agradezco muchísimo sus aportes. Según *Retoños de España* Tomo VII p. 329
los padres de Juana Tavera de la Vega y María Tavera de la Vega,
mencionadas en la dispensa de Francisco de Medellín y de Fabiana González,
fueron Jerónimo Antonio Tavera y Leonor Gutiérrez de la Vega. La dispensa
claramente menciona el apellido de Juana y María como Tavera de la Vega.

Juana Tavera de la Vega y Miguel Hernández Ñagas tuvieron hijos entre 1628
y 1636.

1. Nicolás bautizado 26 de julio 1628
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18576-10060-28?cc=1874591&wc…

2. Antonio bautizado el 17 de abril 1636
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-23516-7?cc=1874591&wc=…

3. Juana Tavera casó en segundas nupcias con Jacinto Sáenz de Laris y
tuvieron hijos entre 1647 y 1649

4. Ignacio bautizado el 11 de febrero 1647
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-24426-34?cc=1874591&wc…

5. María alrededor de

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Armando,

Creo que has confundido algunas cosas. Revise el enlace y vi que en realidad era Martha Gomez (si estoy confundido, me dejas saber) que comento sobre la dispensa. Yo fui que inicie el tema con una perguntando sobre la dispensa. Analizando mis archivos creo que puedo contrubuir un poco, mas voy a tener que regresar a casa para ver mis archivos. Me pueden enviar un correo personal si gustas.

Daniel

Comentario

Hola Daniel. Discúlpame. Si fue Martha quien comentó sobre la dispensa.

Armando

2014-02-12 19:39 GMT-06:00 Daniel Alejandro Méndez de Torres y Camino <
mendezdetorres@hotmail.com>:

> Armando,
>
> Creo que has confundido algunas cosas. Revise el enlace y vi que en
> realidad era Martha Gomez (si estoy confundido, me dejas saber) que comento
> sobre la dispensa. Yo fui que inicie el tema con una perguntando sobre la
> dispensa. Analizando mis archivos creo que puedo contrubuir un poco, mas
> voy a tener que regresar a casa para ver mis archivos. Me pueden enviar un
> correo personal si gustas.
>
> Daniel
>

Comentario

Gracias por la información bien detallada. Agradezco la información de la dispensa de Francisco de Medellín y Fabiana González (la encontre en el sitio de Claudia Casillas)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18409-33709-32?cc=1874591&wc…

Sobre la familia de Miguel Hernández Ñagas y Juana Tavera de la Vega, tampoco lo tenía. Encontré otro hijo llamado José que se casó 18 de febrero 1692 con Petronila de Andrada (hija de Diego de Andrada y Catalina López de Rojas).
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-41346-7?cc=1874591&wc=…

De Diego Díaz Varela y sus hijos María Tavera de la Vega, tengo la siguiente información, que quizas encuentres util:
Anna fue bautizado el 07 de octubre 1647
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18576-10393-46?cc=1874591&wc…

Catalina se casó con Juan Pacheco en 26 de diciembre 1674
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-24335-4?cc=1874591&wc=…

Otra

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Hola primos,

While going through the archives for Arquidiócesis de Morelia, I've come upon some information regarding the family group of the above mentioned Antonio Tavera de la Vega and Leonor Gutierrez Rubio:

Leonor (Gutierrez) Rubio, mujer de Antonio de Tavera, died and was buried 20 Oct 1669, Valladolid (Morelia), Mich
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-RHWN-V?i=366&wc=3NY2-RM9

Antonio de Tavera died and was buried 09 Feb 1670, Valladolid, Mich
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-RHWN-D?i=367&wc=3NY2-RM9

IM for Geronimo Tavera de la Vega cc Francisca Gudiña y Bala, 06 Sep 1655, in Valladolid, Mich:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KP9S-T2?i=1807&wc=3NT6-DP8
This same Geronimo Tavera de la Vega purchased a house in Valladolid, from Juan Carranco de los Reyes, 16 Jan 1671:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5GJM-1?i=81&wc=3NYD-BZ9

IM for Anna Rubio de la Vega cc Regidor Bartolome de Arevalo Hidalgo, 24 May 1666, Valladolid, Mich:
https:/

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Hola primos,

While going through the archives for Arquidiócesis de Morelia, I've come upon some information regarding the family group of the above mentioned Antonio Tavera de la Vega and Leonor Gutierrez Rubio:

Leonor (Gutierrez) Rubio, mujer de Antonio de Tavera, died and was buried 20 Oct 1669, Valladolid (Morelia), Mich
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-RHWN-V?i=366&wc=3NY2-RM9

Antonio de Tavera died and was buried 09 Feb 1670, Valladolid, Mich
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-RHWN-D?i=367&wc=3NY2-RM9

IM for Geronimo Tavera de la Vega cc Francisca Gudiña y Bala, 06 Sep 1655, in Valladolid, Mich:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KP9S-T2?i=1807&wc=3NT6-DP8
This same Geronimo Tavera de la Vega purchased a house in Valladolid, from Juan Carranco de los Reyes, 16 Jan 1671:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5GJM-1?i=81&wc=3NYD-BZ9
Geronimo Tavera de la Vega was also mayordomo de la Cofradia de la Vera Cruz en Valladolid, 12 Jul 1667

Read full comment ➜

Joaquin Joseph de Medellin

Published by sarod77 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

Has anyone have or gone further in this line. I am really confused but so grateful in finding this record that seems like a Dispensa. I tried but it is above my head right now.

Comentarios

Comentario

Hola prima,

It looks like a dispensa for copulacion ilicita 4/3, since his wives were related. Too bad it doesn't explain the relationship.

Cayetano Medellin might be the same Cayetano Medellin baptized 25 Mar 1684, Santa Maria del Rio, SLP, son of Juan Joseph de Torres Medelin and Maria de Vanegas; Juan Joseph de Torres Medellin was son of Capp Diego Medellin and Sebastiana de Torres, and Maria de Vanegas was daughter of Nicolas de Trujillo and his first wife, Lucia de Vanegas.

Teresa Gonzalez de Solis Cortes might be daughter of Pedro Gonzalez de Solis "El Mozo" cc Maria Cortes Michel, who married 13 Jun 1650, in San Francisco de Charcas SLP; he was son of Pedro Gonzalez de Solis "El Viejo" cc Maria de Coronado, and she was daughter of Capp Joan Cortes Mudarra cc Micaela Michel Ordonez. I have them with several children, though no Teresa, but it's still possible.

I have nothing on the Aleman nor Cabeza. There was a family named Cabeza de Moro in early SLP.

I hope that helps

Read full comment ➜

Ruis de Esparza

Published by gpf13 –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I have seen the ancestry of Lope Ruis de Esparza going back a number of generations, in some cases to a Martin Ruiz, Señor de Esparza. What are the documents that support this ancestry?

Comentarios

Comentario

Mr. Ricci and George,

this book by Jamie Olveda called En busca de la fortuna: los vascos en la región de Guadalajara on googlebooks calls Lope Ruiz de Esparsa, Lope Ruiz de Esparza y Espinoza. Does anyone know who the Espinoza is or where it comes from? here is the google mention:

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#tbm=bks&q=Lope+Ruiz+de+Esparza+%22An…

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Danny

This surname apparently comes from Maria Espinosa, wife of Martin Ruiz de Esparza according to some posted genealogies. However I have never seen an actual source for this.

Once again, this is part of my request for source documentation.

George Fulton

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Dom, 2016-09-25 22:53 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Before we had easy access to records on the Internet, I spent many hours in the basement library of the Mormon temple on Santa Monica Blvd. in Wset Los Angeles. As I researched my ancestors, I often sat near JP Schmal as he did research on the Ruiz de Esparza family. I often saw him there working many hours on this family. I know JP was focused on the Ruiz de Esparza family in Mexico but I am sure he would love to take part in a discussion of their ancestors in Spain. I am sure that I can stop by and get JP's contact info at the basement library,

Later, once I started doing more research on this family, I shared much of my research with Bill Figueroa. Bill was my Aguascalientes expert that helped me on some of my ancestors from there. It feels very Strange that he hasn't commented on my latest posting on my Villalpando, Aguilar-Solorzano, or Ruiz de Esparza lines.

It feels very strange to have a discussion of the Ruiz de Esparza family without input by at least one of them. If

Read full comment ➜

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Sáb, 2016-09-24 03:10 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Dear George,

Like you, I have seen many ancestries of Lope Ruiz de Esparza leading back to Spain. I personally have not seen all the documents that are said to exist proving this relationship. However, I have in my notes that there are documents showing the family ancestry that were submitted to the emperor and that he had approved the claims of hidalguia.

As you know, I have seen some documents showing some ancestry. Our Lope Ruiz de Estrada in Aguascalientes is said to be the progenitor of the Esparzas in Nueva Galicia. Although Lope is said to have a brother also come over to Nueva Galicia, all lines that people have been able to go back to their period of time lead to Lope and not the brother. It seems that the brother did not leave any descendants and did not come over at the same time. The brothers came from one of three Esparza families from Navarra. All the Esparzas from Navarra are said to descend from one of these three families.

In reality, it is only two Esparza

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Rick

Thanks for the comments. So much has been posted without sources I think there is a tendency to just accept it. It would be great to see a definitive work on this family.

Documentation of the Ruiz de Esparza family after the arrival in Aguascalientes is generally quite accessible. I have seen and collected a fair amount as my wife has multiple descents from this family.

What was Lope's brother's name? I had not heard of him before.

Thank you for the offer of allowing the me to review a portion of your book. My personal email is gpf13@aol.com.

George Fulton

Comentario

Dear George,

Bill Figueroa used to share information with me about our ancestors in Aguascalientes. I don't see him posting on nuestros ranchos anymore and the email that I have has not generated any responses. Do you know of a way to contact him? I hope he is ok

I don't remember Lope Ruiz de Esparza's brothers name. It was listed in the computer of mine that fried. I lost a lot of my work and sources then. I had to reconstruct a lot of work from information that I remembered and a three year old backup (my older computer). The work I lost was from what I had I inputted in the three year span between the old computer that I had been using and the newer one which is the one that melted down. Just before it melted, I lost the flash drive that I had been using to back up the information in the newer computer.

I had another computer go down last year. I finally learned that it is not if a computer will breakdown but a matter of when.

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Rick

Get an external hard drive. You can get a 500 Mb drive fairly inexpensively, they usually come with software to do automatic back-ups.

George

Comentario

Dear George,

Thanks for the advice, I will make the backups automatic.

Rick

Comentario

Danny

There are a number of unsourced family trees on the roots web World Connect project that have this ancestry. I suspect they all have a common origin. Thus my question concerning documentation.

George Fulton

Comentario

Dear George

Lope's brother that was already here when he arrived is named Capitán Andrés Ruiz de Esparza. Their father sent a letter of Hidalguia with Lope to give to Andres so they would they would have proof that their ancestors were part of the nobility. The source for the name of this brother is Mary Lou Montagna.

Rick

Member Introduction Long Overdue

Published by PaulAnthonyGon… –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I have been a member of this group for a few years now so it past time for me to introduce myself.

Comentarios

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Vie, 2016-09-23 23:01 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Welcome to the team Paul,
I believe your ancestor Diego Gonzalez Isla's parents are most likely found in Zacatecas records. I have posted some of my research on this site on the Lomelin family that you may be interested in. Here are a few records that may hold some clues as to your Gonzalez Islas:

Name Christoval Matheo Gonsales Garibai
Gender Male
Christening Date 23 Oct 1704
Christening Place Ocotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
Father's Name Diego Gonsales De Islas
Mother's Name Francisa De Garibai
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N8JR-M2S : 12 December 2014), Diego Gonsales De Islas in entry for Christoval Matheo Gonsales Garibai, 23 Oct 1704; citing Ocotlán, Jalisco, Mexico, reference 2:1XSLSRS; FHL microfilm 280,854

Maria De La Rossa Garibay Cosin
Gender Female
Christening Date 24 May 1676
Christening Place SAGRARIO METROPOLITANO,GUADALAJARA,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Lorenso De Garibay
Mother's Name

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

My paternal grandmother, Cristina Arteaga Escobedo, was from Villanueva (El Tigre). Her parents were Apolinar Arteaga and Ramona Escobedo. I'm curious if we could be researching the same Arteaga family. She was born in 1903.

Matrimonio de Agustin Gonzalez y Maria Josefa Montoya

Published by dgmiv –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I have looked and looked, and I cannot find the marriage record for Agustin Gonzalez and Maria Josefa Montoya. FamilySearch gives the marriage date as 28 February 1783.

Comentarios

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Vie, 2016-09-23 14:53 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Simon Ruiz de Esparza b. Before 1495 and Graciana Vici (Huici) are the parents of Martin Ruiz de Esparza

Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Vici (Huici), señor del palacio de Esparza (Galar), vecino de Pamplona and Maria de Espinosa (Spinosa) are the parents of Lope Ruiz de Esparza (el viejo)

,Lope Ruiz de Esparza, abogado de las Audiencias Reales, señor de los palacios de Esparza (Galar) y Zariquiegui vecino de Pamplona and Ana Diez de Eguino. They have a son named Lope Ruiz de Esparza

Lope Ruiz de Esparza ( b.1569 d.14 Aug 1651 in Mexico, Distrito Federal) and Ana Francisca Gabai Moctezuma are the parents of Pedro Ruiz de Esparza.

Pedro Ruiz de Esparza and Juana Lozano are the parents of Juan Ruiz de Esparza

Juan Ruiz de Esparza and Rosa Martin de Sotomayor are the parents of Maria de los Dolores Esparza

Maria de Los Dolores Esparza and Cayetano Duron are third cousins.

Rick A. Ricci, book: mygenes2000

Comentario

Dear Daniel,

Here is a little more on the first Esparza to come over. His brother also came over but his name was in some records that I lost. I never did have any descendants for the brother. The brother did not come over at the same time.

Lope Ruiz de Esparza crossed the Atlantic on Feb. 8, 1593, as a bachelor & servant of Enrique Maleon. Don Enrique de Manleon, son of Don Miguel de Navarra y Manleon and Doña María Magdalena de Goñi.
(#2.633, III-163, Vol. VII 1586-1599)

Rick A. Ricci, book mygenes2000

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Jue, 2016-09-22 23:29 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Possible?

Agustin Gonzales
Mexico Baptisms
Name Agustin Gonzales
Gender Male
Christening Date 15 Sep 1675
Christening Place EL SAGRARIO, AUTLAN DE NAVARRO, JALISCO, MEXICO
Father's Name Antonio Gonzales
Mother's Name Catalina Agustina
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NBRW-JRS : 2 January 2015), Agustin Gonzales, 15 Sep 1675; citing EL SAGRARIO, AUTLAN DE NAVARRO, JALISCO, MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 655,559.

Comentario

Daniel

I found your marriage record! It is on images 200 and 201, and is located with 1785 records.

The reason it is not with the rest of 1783 is because it is part of the records of the chapel at the Hacienda of Cieneguilla. Often the records from a chapel are included at the end of records for a given month of the main church, but for some reason these were elsewhere in the volume.

George

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Jue, 2016-09-22 20:58 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Juan Gutierrez Duron is married to Teresa del Castillo on 5/Nov 1665, they are the parents of Esteban Gutierrez Duron b. 1667

Esteban Duron is married in 8/Jan/1689 toJuana Montañez in Aguascalientes. They have a son named Cayetano Duron

Cayetano Duron married Maria de los Dolores Esparza. They are the parents of Juana Gertrudis Duron

Juana Gertrudis Duron is married to Christoval Montoys

A different branch of the family used Duran instead of Duron.

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Jue, 2016-09-22 21:35 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Andres Martin Camacho b.1577 and Maria Ruelas b.1589 are the parents of Maria Sotomayor

Juan Montañes b. 1575 and Ana Vicente b. Bat 1580 are the parents of Juan Montañez

Juan Montañez b. 1599 and Maria Sotomayor are the parents of Bernabe Montañes b. 1650

Bernabe Montañes b.1650 and Isabel Carillo b.1655 are the parents of a daughter named Juana Montañes Carillo b.1673

Juana Montañes Carillo is married to Esteban Duron b. 1668 and they have a son named Cayetano Duron b.1690

Cayetano Duron is married to Maria de los Dolores Esparsa and they have a daughter named Juana Gertrudis Duron

Juana Gertrudis Duron is married to Christoval Montoya (Montolla) and they have a daughter named Maria Josefa Montoya who is married to Agustin Gonzalez

Good Luck,
Rick A. Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Jue, 2016-09-22 19:06 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Here are some more

Cayetano Duron and Maria de los Dolores Esparza

Cayetano Duron
Father
Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, 1590-1979
spouse: Maria de los Dolores
child: Jpha Rosalia de la Trind Duron

Cayetano Duron
mentioned in the record of Pedro Nolasco Duron Esparza
Name Cayetano Duron
Gender Male
Wife Maria De Los Dolores Esparza
Son Pedro Nolasco Duron Esparza
Other information in the record of Pedro Nolasco Duron Esparza
from Mexico Baptisms
Name Pedro Nolasco Duron Esparza
Gender Male
Christening Date 02 Feb 1736
Christening Place EL SAGRARIO,AGUASCALIENTES,AGUASCALIENTES,MEXICO
Father's Name Cayetano Duron
Mother's Name Maria De Los Dolores Esparza
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NK2Y-SY6 : 12 December 2014), Cayetano Duron in entry for Pedro Nolasco Duron Esparza, 02 Feb 1736; citing EL SAGRARIO,AGUASCALIENTES,AGUASCALIENTES,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 299,427.

Gender Male
Wife

Read full comment ➜

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Vie, 2016-09-23 07:16 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Here is the marriage record of a Nicloas de Montoya (Montolla) and Lugarda Garcia

Image 98 out of 445
Film # 299824

Name Nicolas De Montoia
Spouse's Name Lugarda Garcia
Event Date 13 Oct 1709
Event Place El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JHPY-Z9Q : 14 July 2015), Nicolas De Montoia and Lugarda Garcia, 13 Oct 1709; citing El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 299,824.

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Jue, 2016-09-22 18:48 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Dear Daniel,

Here are some records that you may want. Christoval Montoy's father is Nicolas de Montolla and his mother is Lugarda Garcia. Juana Gertrudis Duran is the daughter of Cayetano Duran (Duron?) and Maria de los Dolores.

Good luck,
Rick A. Ricci

Christoval Montolla
Spouse's Name Juana Getrudis Duron
Event Date 25 Mar 1743
Event Place Cienega De Mata,Ojuelos,Jalisco,Mexico
Father's Name Nicolas De Montolla
Mother's Name Lugarda Garcia
Spouse's Father's Name Cayetano Duron
Spouse's Mother's Name Maria De Los Dolores
Citing this Record
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JCZJ-YHB : 15 July 2015), Christoval Montolla and Juana Getrudis Duron, 25 Mar 1743; citing Cienega De Mata,Ojuelos,Jalisco,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 641,015
Name Petra Sebastiana Gonzales
Gender Female
Christening Date 08 Mar 1767
Christening Place EL SAGRARIO,AGUASCALIENTES,AGUASCALIENTES,MEXICO
Father's Name Antonio Gonzales
Mother's Name

Read full comment ➜

Comentario

Daniel

The record must be in the film, somewhere. Perhaps the pages are elsewhere in the film.

There is a matrimonial investigation for this couple dated February 15, 1783, in Aguascalientes. This record begins at image 156, and names parents: Antonio Gonzalez and Maria del Carmen Augustina de Roxas, and Cristobal Montoya and Juana Duran.

George Fulton

Slave Owner Information

Published by Yolie –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I am searching for slave information in Zacatecas and Aguascalenties. I need to find the documents where slave owners listed their property including the numbers and names of slaves.

Comentarios

Comentario

Yolie

I have seen some of this information in different places:

(1) The Aguascalientes archives has documents concerning the sale of slaves. You can search for these types of documents at that website.
(2) Marriage records of slaves will identify their owners, unfortunately the indexed records do not identify if a person was a slave. You need to look at each record.
(3) In the Aguascalientes matrimonial investigations I've indexed I identified all the slaves, just look for "mulato esclavo" under ethnicity. In the later indexes I made I listed the slave owner's name. This is posted here at NR.

Some of this will likely apply to Zacatecas.

While this is not as comprehensive as your request, it will give some info.

George

Comentario

Hi Yolie,

Testamentos (Last Will & Testament) of slaveowners usually list names, genders and ages of slaves, as well. You can find those also in the Aguascalientes Acervos Historicos. Slaves are also listed on padrones.

Good luck!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comentario

Thank you Manny. Where do I find the Acervos Historicos for Aguascalients? I'm sorry to sound so dumb about this. Do I find them in the Family Search catalog? I have also searched for padrones in Aguascalients and there is not a file available with that information. Any direction where to go for the padron?

Comentario

Thank you George. I'm not good at navigating the web page and can't find the information you mention. Can you tell me under what title on the NR page to I find it. All my research has been in every town in Zacatecas. I've looked in Aguascalientes and have not been successful finding any Tello ancestors there.

Comentario

Hi Yolie,

To access the Aguascalientes Acervos Coloniales, go to: http://sigue.aguascalientes.gob.mx/axweb/

The username is: sigue.publica
And the password: publica

Once it lets you in, right-cick on SGG-ARCHIVO HISTORICO - ACERVOS COLONIALES SIGLOS XVII A XIX

And select "New Query"

The search indexes are difficult to use, I usually select "Lugar": AGUASCALIENTES, and for "Tipo Documental", TESTAMENTO, then "Submit."

Then I go through the lists until I find a familiar name.

You can also find the sales of slaves at the same website, amongst other types of notary documents.

Good luck!

Manny Diez Hermosillo

Marriage Information Not Easy to Read--Help

Published by Yolie –
Foros
Genealogy Research

I found a marriage record for Salvador Trillo who I'm sure is Salvador Tello. Can anyone please help me figure out a few important facts I need to find?

Comentarios

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Mar, 2016-09-20 06:01 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

The name is Salvador Thadeo de Trillo and it says " Mulato esclavo," so he is a slave.

I don't believe that it is Tello. There is much higher probability that the Trillo is short for Trujillo.

Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Thanks for your reply Rick. Here is the other marriage document for him. I know it states Trillo, but, I tend to believe the scribe spelled wrong. I find the Tello last name spelled as Tillo, Teyo Thello and Theyo on various documents. The Salvador I'm trying to confirm was living in Zacatecas and having children there. The children's birth records all state his wife's name as Maria Ysabel with several different last names. I have not found any children born to a Salvador Trillo & Maria Aguilar in Zacatecas. Also, the Salvador I'm researching is Mulato on all records I found for his family line.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-RJKH-T?i=86&wc=3P9F-82S%3A…

Comentario

Salvador Thadeo Trillo, He is a mulato (black mixed with another race, usually white) slave. He is the son of Cayetano Trillo and Ines Valadez. He is originally from the Villa de Aguascalientes.

Juana Maria Aguilar, mestizo (white mixed with Native American), originally from the city of Durango, and daughter of Manuel Aguilar and Maria Lucia

Comentario

Yolie,

Trillo was a common last name in this area. They are my ancestors. You can see them here: http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/de%20Trillo-Family-Tree-40

If you're looking for someone named Tello, which was also a common name, this person is not the right person. Tello and Trillo are two different names and probably wouldn't be confused for each other.

Danny C. Alonso

Comentario

Thank you again Danny. You are correct this is not the Salvador Tello I'm looking for. I have found the Tellos married in San Luis Potosi, Coahuila and various place all around Zacatecas. Since he lived in Zacatecas, I figured the scribe made a mistake on the spelling just like many records for Zacatecas. The Tellos were a dynasty just by comparing how many, many kids born to six of Salvador's children. Those children had many children and each named a child after grandparents making the search complicated. Well, I hope this bit of information was a useful addition for your tree.
Take a look at the attached link for the marriage of Julian Tello a Espanol. This made me think there had to be a spelling error with the record which is why I reached out for help. With Julian being Espanol, perhaps he is one of the family members that owned the Rancho de los Tellos I've been searching for. This record is what threw me to say spelling error. My Salvador was married to Maria Ysabel Reyes

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Wife of Jose Blas Perez de Paredes (Paderes)

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
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I descend from Jose Blas Perez de Paredes ( Aka Perez Franco).

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Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Sáb, 2016-09-17 14:46 | Enlace permanente

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After reviewing numerous marriage dispensations, Rosa Maria Martin del Campo and Josepha Martin del Campo seemed to be the same Person and I was ready to change the name to Rosa Maria Josefa Martin del Campo." Then I went to my computer to make the changes and Lo and behold, I already had Josefa and Rosa Maria as sisters. I went to work again and realized that they had not married the same Blas Perez de Paredes but that the Jose Blas Perez de Paredes married to Josefa is the son of Blas Perez de Paredes, the husband of Rosa Martin del Campo, and another wife of his, Beatriz Gonzalez de Hermosillo.

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Dom, 2016-09-18 19:40 | Enlace permanente

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It turns out that there are four extremely close relatives with similar names which causes confusion. As of now, I have each one with only one marriage. The four are related to each other through both their fathers and mothers.

First is Beatriz Catharina Perez de Paredes(Perez Franco) daughter of Blas Perez de Pareds and Rosa Maria Martin del Campo.
1) Beatriz Catharina Perez de Paredes (aka Martin del Campo Perez de Paredes) married Phelipe Gutierrez Coronado y Gonzalez de Hermosillo on 8/May/1719 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.
//////////////////////////////////

Second is Beatriz Catharina Perez de Paredes (Perez Franco) daughter of Jose Blas Perez de Paredes (junior) and Josefa Martin del Campo. Josefa is Rosa Maria's sister. Jose Blas Perez de Paredes (junior) is the son of Blas Perez de Pareds and Beatriz Gonzalez de Hermosillo.
2) Beatriz Catharina Perez de Paredes (aka Martin del Campo Perez de Paredes) married Joseph Gonzalez de Hermosillo before 1734. Jalostotitlan, Jalisco
/

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Slave Owner Information

Published by Yolie –
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I am searching for slave information in Zacatecas and Aguascalenties. I need to find the documents where slave owners listed their property including the numbers and names of slaves.

Call for Volunteers -- 1940 Census

Published by makas_nc –
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Announcements and Events

6 years before the 1940 Census becomes available. Anyone wanting to get
involved in a good cause related to that release should email Joel and
let him know that I referred you. I worked on the 1930 census project

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Comentario

I know this thread is old, but I haven't been able to locate the 1940s Mexican census. Does anyone know where I can find it or when it is expected to be released?

Also, are there any books or sites that may show me older censuses (other than 1930) with documented names and households?

Thanks,
Vanessa

Comentario

Vanessa

Worldcat lists a 30 volume set of books on the 1940 census of Mexico. There are volumes for each state, but I suspect these are statistical tables rather than the census itself.

Numerous university libraries in California have this.

I was unable to find any online sources for the actual census schedules.

George Fulton

Comentario

http://www.inegi.org.mx/est/contenidos/proyectos/ccpv/

i hope this helps

Jose Luis Zambrano De Santiago "El Euforia".

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 2:29 PM, wrote:

> I know this thread is old, but I haven't been able to locate the 1940s
> Mexican census. Does anyone know where I can find it or when it is expected
> to be released? Also, are there any books or sites that may show me older
> censuses (other than 1930) with documented names and households? Thanks,
> Vanessa
>

Comentario

this is better

http://buscador.inegi.org.mx/search?requiredfields=cve_titgen:999&clien…

Jose Luis Zambrano De Santiago "El Euforia".

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 1:40 PM, JOSE L. Zambrano
wrote:

> http://www.inegi.org.mx/est/contenidos/proyectos/ccpv/
>
>
> i hope this helps
>
> Jose Luis Zambrano De Santiago "El Euforia".
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 2:29 PM, wrote:
>
>> I know this thread is old, but I haven't been able to locate the 1940s
>> Mexican census. Does anyone know where I can find it or when it is
>> expected
>> to be released? Also, are there any books or sites that may show me older
>> censuses (other than 1930) with documented names and households? Thanks,
>>

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I was curious? Is the 1940 Mexico Census records available? If so where could I find them? Do you all still need help with this project?
Jeremiah J. Zazueta

Gertrudis Romero de Chaves (Linda)

Published by fdelrealg –
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Linda,

The marriage act is almost impossible to read; however, I found this:

Joseph Gonzalez de Hermosillo, son of Miguel Gonzalez de Hermosillo and Francisca Regina de Villas...

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Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Mié, 2016-09-14 16:49 | Enlace permanente

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You made a mistake when you wrote "Joseph Gonzalez de Hermosillo, son of Miguel Gonzalez de Hermosillo and Francisca Regina de Villas... (deceased)"

It does not say Francisca Regina Villa, , there is no Francisca in the record. It reads Doña Regina Villaseñor de Cuevas.

You made another mistake when you wrote "Francisca Gertrudis Romero de Zamora; daughter of Lucas Romero de Chávez and Petronila Gonzalez de Hermosillo."

It reads Doña Gertrudis Romero de Zamora

You are reading Francisca where it should be read Doña in both cases.

Rick A. Ricci

Alvarez, Dennis (Jalostotitlan, San Miguel, JAL; Aguascalientes, AGS)

Published by Anónimo (no verificado) –
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Dear Dennis,

We are distant cousins, fourth or fifth, I haven't figured out which.

Here are a few ancestors to add to your tree.

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Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Mié, 2016-09-14 15:52 | Enlace permanente

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The two centuries following the Union of the Perez de Paredes and Franco surnames has caused some confusion in the minds of many people looking for their Paredes, Perez, and Franco ancestors

Some people flip-flopped their surnames as they were known as Perez, Perez de Paredes, Perez Franco. Franco Perez, or Franco de Paredes

That is why I believe that the mother of Merced Martin Perez, Ygnacia Perez, may be the same person known as Ygnacia Franco de Paredes.

Rick A. Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Dom, 2016-09-11 12:24 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Dear Dennis,

Parents of (11) Maria Antonia Reynoso are Pablo Reynoso and Maria Monica Barbara Martin Pobedano y Flores de Villavisiencio

Maria Monica Barbara is the daughter of Yldefonso Martin Pobedano and Antonia Flores de Villavisencio (in one record it clearly says Villaseñor)

As to the Jose Martin and Ignacia Perez in your family tree:
There were two couples, the first "juan Jose martin" married to a Ygnacia Perez and The second "Josesito Martin del Campo" married to a Ygnacia Perez. I need more information about Merced in order to find out which of the two couples are her parents. In the earlier post I listed Josesito and his wife as the parents. Juan Jose is the son of Josesito Martin del Campo.

I am relatively closely related to you through the Martin del Campo Perez line and Alvarez tostado Gonzalez line.

Rick A. Ricci

Trying to figure out if these 2 people are the same

Published by alexfanatico –
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Can someone help me sort this out ? I'm not sure if these people are the same with different last names. I'm trying to do my family search on one of my last name Flores.

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Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Sáb, 2016-09-10 23:48 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Here is information on Josef Calletano Becerra Lomelin

Baptism image 251 out of 714
Tecolotlan, Jalisco
Baptism records 1845-1855

Parents
Simon Beserra and Maria Carmenita (or Canuta) Lomelin

Abuelos paternos. Jose Maria Beserra and Maria Bernarda (Benita) Zalazar

Abuelos maternos Josef Julian Lomelin Macias ( bap. 25/Apr/1789)and Maria Francisca Rodriguez (aka Ma.Franca.Coronado) married 17/Jun/1816 Tecolotlan Jalisco

Parents of Josef Julian Lomelin y Macias Juan Antonio Lomelin and Juana Maria Macias

Parents of Maria Francisca Rodriguez (aka Coronado) are Jose Antonio Rodriguez and Maria Luisa Casillas

Good Luck,
Rick A. Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Sáb, 2016-09-10 08:30 | Enlace permanente

Comentario

Dear Alex,

I believe that George and Manny have provided excellent advice as to how to proceed with this investigation. You left out some information that may help the investigation such as, Who is Calletano Flores married to and what are the names of his children?

Here is the baptismal record for Jose Calletano Becerra Lomelin. I am not sure if he is the same person as Calletano Flores but I believe that it is a high possibility due to the information you have given. More research is needed to confirm this though. I also found some other records you should look at. You may have to research all of Calletano's siblings to see if any of their descendants also used the Flores surname.

Jose Calletano Becerra Lomelin
Mexico Baptisms
Name Jose Calletano Becerra Lomelin
Gender Male
Christening Date 23 Aug 1849
Christening Place CORAZON DE JESUS,TECOLOTLAN,JALISCO,MEXICO
Father's Name Simon Becerra
Mother's Name Ma. Canuta Lomelin
CITING THIS RECORD

"México bautismos, 1560-1950,"

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Thank you soo much for the help. By the information you have given me, it is looking like they are the same person. Regarding Calletano Flores, I have yet to find his birth document too. Maybe that's why I cannot find it. Calletano Flores married Maria Trinidad Rangel and the children I have for them are;
Ursulo Flores- Can't find birth or death document
Ignacio Flores- my great grandfather who married Leonarda Garcia on March 1 1908 in San Juan de Amula, El Limon, Jalisco. He is listed on the marriage certificate as Flores. I don't have his birth or death document.
Ricardo Flores, born April 3 1890 in Chiquilistlan, Jalisco- document found
Micaela Flores- born 29 Sept 1892 in Chiquilistlan, Jalisco-document found
Narcisa Flores- born 28 July 1894 in Chiquilistlan, Jalisco- document found
Higinio Flores- born 11 Jan 1900 in Chiquilistlan, Jalisco- document found
Maria Flores- born 25 October 1901 in Tecolotlan, Jalisco- document found
I will use the information you have given me to

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Comentario

Dear Alex,
I agree with you that having the baptism records for 2 of Calletanos sisters, Francisca and Donaciana Flores is a big key. That they mention the grandparents on the maternal side, which are the same names as the Becerra line, Julian Lomeli and Francisca Rodriguez, is very important for this search. As you continue researching remember that although Francisca's father's surname is Rodriguez, Francisca also used the surname Coronado.

The information that you added that your great grandparents were from Chiquilistlan adds ammunition to the connection between Them and Jose Julian Lomeli y Macias who was born in Chiquilistlan.

The parents of Josef Julian Lomelin y Macias, Juan Antonio Lomelin and Juana Maria Macias, had many children born in Chiquilistlan.

Your welcome,
Rick A. Ricci

Comentario

Rick,
Could I bother you with help on another issue. I'm trying to find the birth\death document for my great grandmother Leonarda Garcia. I have been looking for about 6 months now and have yet to locate it. I don't know where\when she was born. I know she passed away between 1920's and 1930's in Jalisco around El Grullo. My grandmother was told her mother died during labor. She was a kid at the time and does not remember how old she was. My grandmother was born March 26 1919 in el Grullo. She was the last child to be born. Leonarda Garcia was married to Ignacio Flores (Becerra). They were married March 1 1908 in San Juan de Amula, El Limon, Jalisco. Leonarda Garcia's parents were Silvestre Garcia and Maria del Pilar Siordia. Thanks !

Comentario

Dear Alex,

I'm glad to help but that is a lot of years that you have to go page by page. Please talk to your grandmother and see if you can narrow the time frame some in order to make this search easier. Ask about different occurrences in her life and ask if her grandmother died after or before each occurrence. Hours talking to her narrowing it down may save many months of work. Have you tried searching both civil and church records? If she was ill for an extended time, she may have been moved to a hospital in the nearest big city. What is the nearest big city?

I used to live in front of a lady born in El Gullo. My mom still keeps in contact with her, they are in their late 80's.

Good luck,
Rick

Comentario

Thanks for the advise. I will speak with my grandmother and see if I can narrow it down. I have been looking through the civil and church records, but as you stated. It is a big gap and it's taking me forever, and have yet to find anything. I wont give up though. thanks again !

Comentario

Alex

Have you looked at Ancestry.com? Civil records. - births, marriages, and deaths - have been indexed for many communities, with linked images. If you do not have a subscription many public libraries do, as well as the LDS Family History Centers.

George Fulton

Comentario

Dear George,
Thank you George Fulton for providing such excellent advice.

Dear Alex,

After you interrogate your grandmother trying to get a smaller timeframe and the right town to look at, it would be wise to follow George Fulton's advice and use ancestry.com's indexes since that would take a lot less time and work.

Looking forward to hearing about what you learned from your grandmother. You may have engage her in conversation for hours, getting her to just ramble on and on with guided questions, often asking the same questions, to get guidance as to where to find what you are looking for. My mother in laws brothers didn't give me what I was looking for until I had them talking over eight hours over three days. On the third day they remembered one more of the grandmothers brothers that was the key to continuing that family tree.

Good Luck,
Rick A. Ricci

<<<<<>>>>

Reply to

<<<<

Indexed civil records on Ancestry.com
Submitted by gpf13 on Tue, 2016-09-13 19:11.
Alex

Have you looked at Ancestry.com? Civil records. - births, marriages, and deaths - have been indexed for many communities, with linked images. If you do not have a subscription many public libraries do, as well as the LDS Family History Centers.

George Fulton

reply

Comentario

Alex

The similarity of names is certainly suggestive.

I would try to find the matrimonial investigations for each of these marriages; hopefully they exist for the time period of interest. There may be some clues there. In some cases the matrimonial investigations exist even though you cannot find a marriage document. Maybe there is a Flores in the Becerra or Lomeli ancestry could account for a surname change.

I would also look at the specific birthplaces, not just the town where the church where the baptism or marriage was celebrated. If only one locale is mentioned in all the records it helps to make the case that the two Simons are the same person.

Good luck,
George Fulton

Comentario

Hola Alex,

I was going to suggest what George recommends. The matrimonial investigations will give place of birth and approximate age. Check the witnesses - sometimes they are family members.

Personally, I’d say they are the same person: “Simon” was not a common name, and the coinciding given name of his father, and the coinciding names of the wives are strong indicators.

Try this: make a timeline for both Simon Flores and Simon Becerra, and then put them together: if the Flores and Becerra children are born at least 9 months apart, then you’re on the right track. Also, as George recommends, check which rancho or puesto the children were born on, and the padrinos, and see if they coincide.

I’d also recommend researching the family group of Jose Maria Becerra aka Flores and Benita Salazar, and see if he used both surnames, or any of their other offspring.

For some reason or another, some people used aliases. Naming practices get confusing, as you dig further back, though it was

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Aguascalientes Matrimonial Investigations 1737-1740

Published by gpf13 –
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I have just posted the final installment of my project to extract the matrimonial investigations for Aguascalientes, generally covering the period 1737-1740.

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Simona and Austin

Thank you for the kind words!

The index files can be downloaded and printed by any NR member. If the index helps a fellow NR member find something useful, please cite the Family Search film, rather than my work as the reference, as my index is a secondary source, or a finding aid.

George Fulton

Comentario

I am always so grateful to be a member with so many people like yourself helping us all advance our tree with great resources. Thanks!

Codicilo de Don Pedro Lorenzo de Castilla

Published by Marcelina_Macias –
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Hola compañeros:

Cuento con el codicilo de Don Pedro Lorenzo de Castilla, en caso de que tenga interés para alguno de ustedes, háganmelo saber para publicar el extracto.

Saludos

Marcelina

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Comentario

Me interesa el codicilio del Mariscal de Castilla por tener muchas tierras en San Francisco del Rincon, Gto., y te comento que ese testamento de Hernando Galvan de Rojas yo lo trate y consulte en el año de 1985, me asombra que 31 años despues ustedes que son las nuevas generaciones apenas lo vean hoy. Yo soy un damnificado de dos piratas llamados barba rosa Helcombe y barba roja Glez. de Rubalcacaba, ya que estos personajes presumen de muchos datos, pero la mayoria fueron datos mal habidos de cerca de 20 estudiosos de la genealogia de los años 1975 a 2005, ya que al manejar los datos de estos 20 estudiosos, con acuerdos de no publicar nada sin el permiso de los dueños de los datos y despues sin ningun pudor presentarlos como suyos, se dieron a conocer como piratas, sin otro particular te envió un cordial saludo

Comentario

Hola Joseph:

La colección de documentos inéditos sólo se imprimió una vez, tardé cerca de tres años para consultar los ocho volúmenes. Actualmente ya existe en una biblioteca de la U.A.Q. pero hay un sólo juego. Por eso no es raro que sea difícil consultarlo.

Mi intención al ofrecer ciertos documentos es reavivar algunos de los temas que quedaron en suspenso y de esa manera dar un sentido al trabajo de tantos compañeros, sería como aportar una pieza del rompecabezas.

"En el pueblo de Querétaro, en veinte y seis días del mes de febrero de mil seiscientos e un años, ante mí el escribano y testigos , pareció Don Pedro Lorenzo de Castilla, vecino de la ciudad de México y estante en éste pueblo....

"Dijo y declaró que Don Luis Felipe de Castilla su hijo, tiene en su poder una ejecutoria real del pleito que trató con él y sus fiadores en razón de los tributos y pueblos de Texcaltitlán...

... que desde l día que falleció doña Catalina de Chávez, su primera mujer y madre del dicho don

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Testamento de Hernando Galván

Published by Marcelina_Macias –
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Hola de nuevo:

Saludos a todos, cuento con el testamento de Don Hernando Galván, padre del clan Galván de Rojas, por si le interesa a alguien más.

Saludos

Marcelina

Comentarios

Published by R.A.Ricci (no verificado) – Dom, 2016-09-04 07:57 | Enlace permanente

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Hola Marcelina,

Yo descíendo de Don Hernando Galvan, padre del clan Galván de Rojas,

Yo tengo mucho interes en el testamento de Don Hernando Galván.

Gracias,

Ricardo A. Ricci

Comentario

"En el nombre de Dios Nuestro Señor, amén. Sepan cuantos estas carta de testamento vieren, cómo yo, Hernando Galván, vecino deste pueblo de Querétaro, hijo legítimo de Alonso Galván y Constanza Torrina, difuntos, estando como estoy enfermo del cuerpo y sano de la voluntad... ordeno mi testamento en la forma e manera siguiente:

Mandas

Deudas

Declaro que soy casado legítimamente con Francisca de Espíndola, con la cual recibí en dote mil pesos de oro común, y cuando con ella me casé tenía por mis bienes doscientas cabras y un sitio de estancia en Apapátaro, y durante nuestro matrimonio hemos habido por nuestros hijos legítimos a Constanza de Rojas, mujer de Gonzalo Zamorano, y a Catalina de Espíndola, mujer de Diego Ramírez, Juan Galván, Alonso Galván, Hernando Galván, Miguel y Cristóbal y Francisca".

Albacea: Francisca de Espíndola, Juan y Alonso. Herederos: que se pague a Francisca de Espíndola los mil pesos de su dote y la mitad de multiplicado y el resto por partes iguales entre

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Estimada Marcelina,

Este testamento da mucha informacíon. Lo mas importante para mi es que tuvo dos hijos llamados Hernando Galvan. Algunos genealogos confunden al ilegitimo Hernando Galvan como con el hijo legitimo, Hernando Galvan de Rojas. Lo Rojas viene de la esposa entonces la Rama de los Galvan de Rojas desciende de los hijos legitimos.

Muchas gracias por el testamento de Hernando Galvan.

Ricardo A. Ricci

Comentario

Hola Richard:

Que bueno que te sirva el testamento. Actualmente he estado investigando a Francisca de Espíndola ya que también pertenece a mi familia, aunque no desciendo de ella:

Mi abuelo 10° Juan Ramírez de Coy estuvo casado con Doña María de Espíndola (que en realidad se apellidaba Avendaño de Espíndola) y tenía una hermana que se llamaba Ana y varias sobrinas, pero no identifiqué ninguna hermana que se llamara Francisca, pero hay indicios de que se trata de la misma familia por lo siguiente:

La familia Ramírez de Coy les ponía a sus hijas el apellido "de Roxas" y de eso hay varios registros, tanto del siglo XVI como del siglo XVII. Incluso uno de los hijos se hacía llamar Nicolás de Roxas.

Fray Pariente de Verona -según algunas versiones- en un libro que se llama Paramología dijo que Don Juan Sánchez de Alanís dejó como descendencia a una hija, de la que descienden los Rico de Roxas y los Ramírez de Coy. Yo estuve leyendo el libro pero no lo terminé porque al referirse a

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Hola Marcelina,

El testamento de Harnando Galvan tiene mucha informacíon. Se me hace muy interesante que su esposa Francisca Espindola sea hija de Catalina Torrina. La combinacíon de los apellidos Espindola y Torrina nos dice que es posíble que haya una connecíon con la familia Spinola de Torrina en Italia.

Gracias,

Ricardo

Comentario

Hola Ricardo:

La familia Espíndola originalmente era la familia Spínola de Génova, una rama pasó a Sevilla y de allí se desprende una rama que pasa a Jerez de la Frontera.

Elaboré un libro sobre las familias de orígen turano en México, a raíz de la presencia de una mujer Constanza Turena en Querétaro. En Europa existen cantidad de poblaciones con el inicio "tur" Touraine, Turón, Turín, etc. de eso se trata mi investigación.

Me pregunto si Torrina es Turín.

En Querétaro, además de los Bocanegra hubo lo apellidos Espíndola, Doria, Grimaldo, Calvo, Cusia, Lira...

¿Puedes decirme algo sobre Torrina?

Saludos

Marcelina

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