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Interesting Katy and thank you for viewing the Diocesis De Guadalajara Archive. Your in 1762 and in the Monte Escobedo area?

Have you seen any information on:

Antonio Madera (1660 - 1709)/ Maria De La Candelaria Angon (1655 - 1735)

You had found the surname of Maria De La Candelaria which is Angon which was a big help for me. Any more information would be greatly appreciated.

Also looking for:

Joseph Madera(1684 - 1734) / Josepha Basquez? (Velasquez)

Blas Madera / Maria Theresa Avila

Those three generations were in the Mezquitic area before moving over to Huejuquilla

That is not an actual "dispensa", its just a verification by a higher authority of the declarations. reason (although not stated on the document) is because the priest in the parish wasn't sure of the facts. The three witnesses are from the same area than the groom, (this is no bride witnesses) plus two of them are related. Usually the Priest would just send the declarations to the parish where the groom belongs to, then the other priest there could verify if the groom was in fact who he said and that he was eligible to marry. For some reason (I believe because it was out of the jurisdiction of Nueva Galicia) they did not send it to Samora but rather to Guadalajara.

I'm guessing it's because anytime a widow/widower remarries again, the Church needs to verify and document that the widow/widower is truly eligible to marry again under Church doctrine.

Joseph de Leon

Gertrudis was abandoned at the house of Manuel de Olague who adopted her as his daughter.

Austin Perez

There is also a DNA project at FTDNA for the states of Jalisco, Aguascalientes, and Zacatecas at https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/nueva-galicia-dna/about

Getting autosomal tests at all of the companies helps to understand the process a bit better and see the strengths and weaknesses of each of them as well as find as many relatives as possible. 23andme is the best when it comes to ethnicity.

FTDNA is the best for determining the direct paternal and maternal lines and the Family Finder test can still be helpful even though not as accurate as 23andme.

None of the companies will help determine which indigenous tribe from Jalisco a person belongs to.

Hi, try bottom link. I started thread back September 2014 asking the same question. Some members gave me great advice on where to look.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/22433

Also, on Nuestros Ranchos website go under "Files" "Reference Materials" and half way down you will find Jalpa Marriages 1819-1827. It is in excel form and contains a lot of valuable information not found on family search. Save the Excel form into your computer and it has two tabs in the bottom "Parcial 80" and "Libro 81" You will find under "Libro 81"

I also uploaded copy of Jalpa Padron 1820 if you are interested. Under "Reference Material"

You got my attention when you mentioned "Duran", I was able to trace my Duran ancestors to the book GENEALOGIAS DE NOCHISTLAN ANTIGUO REINO DE LA NUEVA GALICIA

Good Luck

Ruben

you should take a look in tepetongo or fresnillo records

Hi Raul,

I hope you don't mind if I ask a few questions to clarify so we can help you better.

1. Which records have you searched already? Both the church and civil records?

2. How many of the years did you search before and after the date?

3. Did your grandmother have any siblings, and have you found their records?

4. Was she born in Jerez the town, or was she born on one of the ranchos?

5. Have you searched knowing that her full name may not match exactly the name you've identified? Enriqueta may have been a middle name.

Once we know the answers to these questions, I think we should be able to give you better advice.

Rosalinda

Check the records in colotlan jalisco.

There are lots of medina there she may be from there and marry in zacatecas is very common.

https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysea…

https://books.google.com/books?id=ILMWAAAAYAAJ&q=San+Jos%C3%A9+de+los+M…

Este Libro Mensiona al Rancho De san Jose De los Marquez y una capilla.

Los indigenas de los primeras capillas tomaban el nombre de las capillas.

Alguien sabe mas al tema de los Marquez de esta capilla?

Voto general de los pueblos de la Provincia Libre de Xalisco, denominada hasta ahora de Guadalajara, sobre constituir su forma de gobierno en república federada

Front Cover
Jalisco (Mexico)
Poderes de Jalisco, 1973 - Constitutional history - 137 pages

En este libro nombran a la familia Marquez del Olivo en Colotlan. no tengo el lirbo pero mensionan en la busqueda alguien puede confirmar

https://books.google.com/books?id=r05mAAAAMAAJ&q=Marquez+del+olivo&dq=M…

Este libro nombra un linaje de Marquez del Olivo pero en Guadalajara.

Jose de Jesus Barba Ornelas
Marquez de los Olivos
Enviado por joseph_barba el Mié, 2013-01-30 23:04.
Jose de Jesus Barba Ornelas
Estimado Adrian Marquez Padilla o tioallan, los Marquez de los Altos de Jalisco no son Marquez de los Olivos, estos Marquez de los Olivos son otra familia que tienen su asentamiento en la Villa de Jerez Zac. y sus alrededores. Por 1650 un Marquez de los Olivos pasa a la Villa de las Aguascalientes y se asienta en el poblado de Cienega de Mata donde se registran sacramentalmente personas tanto de Aguascalientes como de Lagos. En Lagos casa este Marquez de los Olivos con una Señora de apellido del rincon y es gracias a este matrimonio que muchos genealogistas creen que los Marquez Alteños, son Marquez de los Olivos. Los Marquez Alteños tiene su origen el la Puebla de los Angeles. Estoy a tus ordenes si necesitas algo.Saludos.

JOSE DE JESUS BARBA ORNELAS

Adrian Marquez Padilla

Regresando al tema original "Marquez v. Marquez de los Olivos, yo tengo en mi linea familiar el apellido Marquez que desciende de Marques de los Olivos. En esta se comprueba el hecho de el cambio o la reduccion de Marquez de los Olivos a Marquez unicamente

Jose Marquez de los Olivos, casado con Maria Ornelas Mendoza, Hijos:

Diego Marques de los Olivos Ornelas (1617-1672) ***

Diego Marques de los Olivos Ornelas (1617-1672) (hijo de Jose Marques de los Olivos y Maria Ornelas Mendoza), En 1658, se casó con María de la Cruz Martín del Campo López de la Cruz. (hija de Lazaro Martin del Campo y Garcia y Maria Lopez de la Cruz) Hijos:

1659, nació Juana Marquez de los Olivos Martin del Campo
1660, nació Nicolasa Marquez de los Olivos Martin del Campo
1663, nació Jose Marquez de los Olivos Martin del Campo ***
1665, nació Diego Marquez de los Olivos Martin del Campo
1666, nació Catarina Marquez de los Olivos Martin del Campo
1667, nació Ana de la Cruz Marquez de los

Hi Jospeh,

My Marquez de los Olivos are also from Saus de los Marquez. They also eventually shortened the name to just Marquez. I remember a while back we tried to link your Marquez family to my Marquez family but had no luck. I imagine if you are able to go back a generation or two we will have the link.

Good Luck on you Search,
Angie

Hi Katy-

San Cristobal de la Barranca is about 25 miles North of Guadalajara on highway 23.

The groom's parents (Diego Jaimes and Juana Talavera) are also listed in another son's (Pablo Jose) marriage record in San Cristobal:

"México, matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N67B-4MB : accessed 10 July 2015), Pablo Josef Jaimes and Antonia Josefa De Nava, 06 May 1793; citing San Cristóbal De La Barranca, Jalisco, Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,108,703.

Linda, I found this address on Somos Primos: leon_torre@yahoo.com.mx

If you are able to connect with him, I'm interested in learning the source he used to write his piece titled "Xerez, descubrimiento y fundación".

I dont understand spanish but I believe the attached document disproves "Cabe la remota posibilidad de que el marido de Catalina de la Torre no fuera Diego de Colio sino Diego de Colio Berbén"

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18381-34888-21?cc=1874591&wc…

Gary,

I just want to add that in an article I read dated March 2014 Rafael Tovar de Teresa, Guillermo's brother, found an unpublished manuscript entitled "Historia de Mexico" which he intends to publish. My guess is that the information we are all looking for will be in that book.

Nomas quiero agregar a lo que te dijo Daniel Mendez que en Marzo 2014 Rafael Tovar de Teresa (hermano de Guillermo)anuncio que encontro un libro inedito de su hermano titulado "Historia de Mexico" el cual va publicar. Sospecho que la informacion que buscamos va a estar en ese libro.

-Angelina Markle-

Estimados miembros,

hace tiempo publiqué la mayoría de esto, pero creo que hay más interés ahora de lo que había entonces. No sé si este dato ayude con Petronila de Moctezuma pues no tengo un vínculo claro, pero encontré esta dispensa del Arzobizado de Guadaljara en 1705 que menciona a un Marcos de Montezuma que al lado de su esposa eran"indios caciques del pue[blo] de Chalco, Arzobizpado de Mex[i]co:"

La mención está en la página derecha hacia abajo:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18380-25218-21?cc=1874591&wc…

Dicha imagen es la #60, pero la dispensa empieza en la imagen 54.

Como deben ustedes saber, Chalco es un pueblo al oriente de la Ciudad de México. Me parece curioso que haya mención de que Don Marcos era cacique, años después de su defunción.

Ahora va lo complicado, la extracción de la información:
(1) Marcos de Montezuma casó con (2)Magdalena de Escobar. Ellos fueron padres de:
(3)María de Escobar, difunta antes de 1705. No sé porque usaba

I too hope that the thread on Petronila becomes active again. I am looking forward to having more time for research from about mid august. I think it was great how we found new info on diego arias de sotelo, who may be petronilas father.
Regards
Denise

I too hope that the thread on Petronila becomes active again. I am looking forward to having more time for research from about mid august. I think it was great how we found new info on diego arias de sotelo, who may be petronilas father.
Regards
Denise

Mario, Connie, Édgar, et al.

Hace meses que envié un correo a Rafael de Tovar y Teresa,
hermano de Guillermo Tovar de Teresa, QPD, sobre el tema. Nunca recebí respuesta. Todos que estaban involucrados con
el trabajo de Guillermo, supieron el proyecto que estaba abordando en los
últimos anos. Aparentemente, encontró varios documentos que finalmente lo
establecía, entre los registros de la ciudad de Méjico. No lo quiso publicar
antes del tiempo debido a mucho plagiarismo que existía. Mas dudo que no lo
comentó a alguien. El tiempo se llevó el gran erudito colonial, quien siempre
admiraba. Hasta Mariano González Leal lo menciona en su obra magnífico. Mas el
cuestión es dónde en la ciudad de Méjico existe esos registros entre tanto archivos,
notarías, colegios, testamentos, etc. Sé personalmente que el acervo colonial
comienza en 1529 cuando oficialmente los registros notoriales comienzan y otros
instrumentos públicos se realizan para la corona. Temo que esta información
nuncá vendrá a

No existe documentacion acerca de quienes fueron los padres de Petronila
Moctezuma, solo existe las siguientes hipotesis:

a) Bisnieta de Moctezuma Xocollotzin, por medio de su hija Aztlan (de
nombre cristiano Leonor Moctezuma, tambien llamada Marina)
b) Sobrina nieta de Moctezuma, existen dos nietas del hermano de Moctezuma,
Cuitlahuac, llamadas Petronilas.

Saludos.

El 18 de julio de 2014, 12:59, escribió:

> BUENAS TARDES
> ALGUIEN TIENE ALGUN DOCUMENTO DONDE SE MENCIONEN LOS PADRES DE PETRONILA
> DE MOCTEZUMA ESPOSA DE MARTIN DE NAVARRO?
>
> YO SOY DESCEDIENTES POR VARIAS LINEAS POR PARTE DE LOPE RUIZ DE ESPARZA
> (ll)Y ANA FRANCA GABAY NAVARRO MOCTEZUMA
>
> QUE TENGAN UN EXCELENTE DIA TODOS
>
> SALUDOS
>
>

Sorpresa.. pues bien averiguando y todo resulta que el tal Maximino es Macsimo y no es hijo de Jesus Femat sino de Froilan Esparza y Encarnación Prieto casados el 4 sep 1847 en algún punto lo vincularon al segundo matrimonio pero lo bautizan o nace el 10 jun de1848 C038617..Encarnación Prieto es hija de Juan Jose Prieto y Gregoria Lopez ( en algunas aparece como Villalpando) pero el qué es hermano de Froilan es Ciriaco Esparza casado con Felipa Cardona el 6 dec 1845 hija de Vicente Cardona y Valentina Marin M646208 film 1156093...

los papás de Froilán Esparza ( o Ruiz de Esparza casado con Encarnacion y con Jesus Femat y además con Refugia Delgado el 25 sep 1848 hija de marcelino Delgado y Jesús Escalera... si en los 3 matrimonios mismos padres y eso que en uno sólo hay un año de diferencia.. son Trinidad Esparza y Luisa Esparza!!!! saludos Lety r

_________________________________________________________________
¿Qué signigica Messenger para ti?
www.vivirmessenger

Hola yo no tengo nada que ver con ellos pero investigué alguna vez sobre una rama de la familia uiz de Esparza alguna vez..Fructuoso hijo de Froylan Esparza y Ma. Jesus Femat Virginia Ruiz de la Peña hija de Ysaac Ruiz de la Peña y Juana Esparza casados 11 sep 1886 el hermano de Fructuoso Antonio se casa con Elicea Quintero originaria de Mesquitic el 8 mar 1886 hija de Pedro Quintero y Dolores Macías batch M604871 film 299846

ahora que si te fijas en el mismo lugar y casi fecha hay un Maximiano Esparza casado con Maria Cruz Jauregui...hija de Martin Jauregui e Isidra...el 8 nov 1879 él hijo de Julian Esparza y Jesus Femat ( coincidencia? o tal vez buscar a un Froylan es en realidad Julian? si fuera Julian hay 2 opciones que nos dicen que hay Julian Ruiz de esparza era de Cienega de Mata y casó en 2 ocasiones anteriores y sus hijos de ambos matrimonios nacieron en aguascalientes.. pero aún hay que buscarlo en Aguascalientes... ya veremos..)

Ysaac y Juana Tuvieron hasta donde

Katy: Let's see, according to the document (on this declaration only, more information may come clearer on the other witnesses accounts) Fernando Campa treat Antonio Mier as uncle, I think that Fernando Campa is close in age/generation to Fernando Mier and they likely treat each other as cousins.

Antonio Mier treat Juan Campa as Uncle which make me think that he (Antonio) was a generation younger.

Putting both relations together we can assume that Fernando Campa (the Count) was a grandson of Juan Campa (the Knight)

I couldn't read the last sentence regarding this accounts but it seems as if the relations between the Mier and Campa are not known to be "consanguineous", but because the witness know them to treat each other as family he assumes that they actually are.

I made a transcription of this documet

Transcripcion del documento en este archivo (Jul 8 2015, Dr. Moises Beutelspacher Huizar)

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18381-23144-5?cc=1874591&wc=…
En la Villa de Xerez , en quince días del mes de Abril de mil setecientos setenta y cuatro años (1774), ante el Sr B Don Joseph Thomas Alon de Larrastegui, Cura Bene por su Magnificencia, pidole que de esta dicha Villa Vicario Jun(an) Cele(sti) no Onella, por el Ilustrisimo y Reverendisimo Sr maestro Don Fray Antonio, Alcalde del orden sagrado de predicadores Dignisimo Obispo de este Reino de la Nueva Galicia , el de Leon y Provincias de el Nayarit, Californias, Coahuila y Texas, de el Consejo de su Majestad (¿? ), se presento el subsecuente escrito:
Peticion
El Benemerito Don Felis Joseph Rodriguez Saenz, presbítero domiciliario de este Obispado y residente en esta Villa de Xerez: a nombre de Don Fernando de Mier Theran y Mijares mi hermano (

The little bits I can understand from that page are:

Don Antonio de Mier y Theran married Doña Margarita Mijares y Solorsano, their kid (the subject) is Don Fernando de Mier Theran y Mijares.

Dn. Antonio Mier y Theran parents life is unknown to the witness since they where from Burgos. Dn. Antonio lived also in "el Epasote" part of Colotlán.

Da. Margarita Mijares died when her kid born. Her parents were Dn. Diego Mijares y Solorsano and Da. Rosa María de Luna. (Fernando's Grandparents) from that same village (Jerez),

Dn. Fernando Mier Theran y Solorsano got married with Da. María Salvadora Rodrigues Saens (who died a year earlier to the declaration) She was the sister of the Bachiller Dn. Felis Joseph Rodrigues Saens.

The witness stays the "pureza de sangre" of Dn. Fernando's Grandparents (that they are not Judios, Morors, etc.)

Dn. Diego Mijares y Solorsano (maternal grandparent) was Uncle in second with third grade of "Yllustrisimo Señor" Flores Obispo; Here I think it could

Diego Minjares Solórzano fue tío en segundo con tercero grado de sanguinidad del Ilustrísimo Señor Flores, obispo de Nicaragua…

This bishop Flores probably is the same as José Antonio Flores y Rivera who according to the website (http://www.manfut.org/leon/obispos.html) was bishop of Nicaragua for a short time (1755-1756):

año de 1755

El Ilmo. Sr. don José Antonio Flores y Rivera, Canónigo de la Sta. Iglesia de México: tomó posesión de la mitra de Nicaragua por febrero de 1755, y murió por diciembre de 1756: sepultóse en su Catedral.

There are many documents and records that shows baptisms of Natives but based on only vital records we can assume that there was not a single system to do so. I've seen in Durango for example in the earliest records a widow by the name Roxas who had quite a bit of slaves and servants, two generations later the last name Roxas is found on any race in this town. (natives, africans, spanish and any mix of them)

I once read, but that was many years ago and I can't recall the source. that Spain's King and Viceroy gave instructions to give "Apellidos Castellanos" to natives which would explain at some extent why Patronymic Spanish names are widely popular even on earlier records with the some exceptions like Garcia. This could be true in some cases but definitely not a system that was followed.

In the records I myself have seen I notice that proper names where mostly based on Saints, that last names (which were almost never used by natives prior 1700's in many parts of Northern Mexico)

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/location/1928728?region=Mexi…

Use this link the records are at the very bottom.

to access you need to go

Familyearch .org

to to search

click on Mexico on the map

chose the state Jalisco

And that it.

Hello,

I asked them and this is what they replied:

"Thank you for bringing this to our attention, there appears to be a glitch in the system. For now you can access the collection by going to the page for Search Historical Records and click on Browse All Published Collections, then on the top left of the screen you will see 'Filter by collection name'. Put the name of the collection in there and it will come up. We apologize for this glitch, our engineers are working on getting it fixed."

I also tried google, Jalischo Catholic Church Records family search... and I got the link.

try this new link

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18685-64647-92?cc=1874591&wc…

Katty is right, i don´t know if temporary or definitely the way to go to the records was changed. i followed Katty instructions & got the Jalisco´countys church records again

The church records for Nayarit are also missing. I noticed it around Monday. Are they perhaps updating them?

Entra a familysearch.org y luego te vas a encontrar algunas opciones como fan chart photos family tree y lie go Otro que Dice search o buscar haces click ahí y a la mano derecha de tu pantalla vs a ver el mapa de México haces click ahí y te salen todos los estados de México y ya solo escoges Jalisco

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 23, 2015, at 5:08 PM, Danny Alonso wrote:
>
> Does anyone know where the Jalisco Catholic Church records are? They don't
> show up on the list of Jalisco records anymore:
>
> https://familysearch.org/search/collection/location/1928728?region=Mexi…
>
> Danny C. Alonso

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18685-64647-92?cc=1874591&wc…

I don't know the answer to the second part of your question, but as far as why you see the same name on several children baptized the same day,

This just one reason, my Grandparents and Mother who worked closely with the Priests in their parish in their younger years helping maintain and copy church records (like the ones on familysearch) tell me that sometimes, the parents would leave it up to the Priest to name the child, the Priest would then just choose which ever Saint was on the calendar for that day. For example, if it was St. Thomas Day, boys were Tomas and girls were Tomasa. Of course, adding Jose or Maria in there somewhere.

Again, this is just one parish, and one of the reasons. I am sure there are more reasons.

Ruben