Blas Sanchez and Desideria Carlos (y de Llanos)

Hello to all.

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.
I have not been able to find Blas Sanchez parents but do have 10 children for them.
If you click on a name it will give you whatever information I have on that person..

https://wc.rootsweb.com/trees/618307/I102338/blasjose-sanchez/registry

I hope this may give you a bit more information.
Decideria is 5th cousin 7 time removed from my Father Chet Castanon

Erlinda Castanon-Long

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Thank you so much, Erlinda!

10 children's baptisms and still no names of the paternal grandparents!

Btw, I actually descend from them on two lines:

I. 1. Blas Sánchez + Desideria Carlos de Llanos y Valdez
2. Pablo Antonio Nepomuceno Sánchez Carlos who married Maria Nestora Acevedo Enríquez (I just saw you have a different wife on your record, so I guess he had at least two marriages. Or perhaps they named two of their kids Antonio? Need to double check)
3. Octaviano Sánchez Acevedo (+Lorenza Nava Sandoval)
4. Leonides Sánchez Nava (+Francisca Fernández Barrios)
5. my grandpa Jerónimo

II. 1. Blas + Desideria
2. Maria Eligia Sánchez Carlos who married José de Jesús Correa del Muro.
3. Cruz Correa Sánchez (+ Serafina Ortiz Bañuelos)
4. María Correa Ortiz (+ Cresencio Fernández Mercado)
5. Francisca Fernández Correa (+ Leonides Sánchez Nava)
6. my grandpa

All of this I confirmed using the dispensa of my great grandparents Leonides and Francisca, because as you see they were

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So I made a rookie mistake and confused Jose Antonio Sanchez Carlos with his brother Pablo Antonio Nepomuceno Sanchez Carlos.

I descend from Jose Antonio, who married Maria Nestora Acevedo Enriquez and not Pablo Antonio who married Isabel Borrego. Thing is, I can't find Jose Antonio's baptismal record so I just assumed it was the other Antonio's in the family.

I did in the meantime find Blas' death record. His wife Desideria Carlos was indexed as Desideria Leal, so I guess it was easy to miss. The record is very hard to read, but at least the names are pretty clear. Here's the link (I have already changed Desideria's name to Carlos from Leal):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:D12Y-K3T2

Could anybody perhaps be able to help me read/decipher more of the information? I don't think his parents are listed, but if anybody can make out his age at death it would be super helpful in the search of his baptismal record.

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Oh, I made a mistake! Is there a way to edit a new forum topic and/or its title? Help!

I am not entirely sure Blas and Desideria were born in Juanchorrey or somewhere else in the municipality of Tepetongo.

MARTINEZ/MARTIN/ MARTIN DEL CAMPO help Meson de Los sauces/Lagos de Moreno

Hello, so my paternal side is from Meson de Los sauces it seems. As far as I can get any info as most of the recent generations of family was born in Los Angeles, California.

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Celso Martinez is the son of Toribio Martinez and Maria Dolores Gonzalez

Toribio is the son of Avelino Martinez and Martina Cabrera

Ma. Dolores Gonzalez is the daughter of Francisco Gonzalez and Maria López

Ildefonsa Franco is the daughter of Cecilio Franco and Maria de Jesus Viramontes

Here is the marriage record of Cecilio Franco and Maria de Jesus Viramontes

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N6WV-RD7

Rick A. Ricci

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This checks out, but somehow can’t link it back to Celso Martinez Franco when viewing this document.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QG7H-8VMW

On here it has him as Celso Martin with the correct date of birth. 15 APR 1901
Celso’s parents on here are:
Francisco Martin
Ildefonza Franco

Paternal grandparents:
Toribio Martinez
Dolores Guiroz(not sure if it’s shortened)

maternal grandparents:
Feliciano Franco
(Can’t decipher) YLNES

Witnesses:
Toribio Martin
Juana Geronima

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There are two Celso Martin (Martinez) that have parents with same names The paternal grandfathers have the same first name and surname but the paternal grandmother’s only share the first and middle name. The big difference is that one paternal grandmother is named Maria Dolores Gonzalez and the other paternal grandmother is named Maria Dolores Quirós.

The first thing you need to do is find out the birthdate of your Celso Martin to make sure that you are following the right ancestors. You can’t go by the parents names since both Celsos have parents with the same name and with similar names for grand parents to confuse the matter even more. The key difference is the surnames of the two different Maria Dolores.

I found a death record for Ildefonsa Franco but there is even a problem there as her mother in the record has the surname Gómez. In some records Ildefonsa’s mother is listed as Marcelina while in others she is listed as Martina.

Rick A. Ricci

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Thank you for the info, yes I have ran into this problem multiple times on this branch. I’ll have to just contact living sons of my grand uncles who have posted pictures of my paternal great grandfather and his wife. They seem to have a lot of old family photos. Hoping for the best and they provide info to clear this up.

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@Rick I just received some first hand information from my grand uncle. His grandparents(Celso’s parents) names were Francisco Martinez Quiroz and his grandmas was ildefonza Franco I’ll have to work on toribio and Maria Dolores Quiroz and work myself up on those.

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Adrian,

We have common ancestors in the 1700’s in our Romo de Vivar, Martin del Campo, Franco de Paredes, and other ancestral lines.

Birth record of Guadalupe Martin Franco, daughter of Francisco Martin and Ildefonza Franco

Abuelos paternos Toribio Martin and Dolores Quirós

Abuelos maternos Feliciano Franco and Marcelina Flores

https://sg30p0.familysearch.org/service/records/storage/dascloud/das/v2…

A name issue still comes up because when Ildefonsa Franco dies, her parents are listed as Feliciano Franco and Marcelina Gómez.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GPVL-9LQ9?i=501&cc=191…

Rick A. Ricci

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Thank you for the info, I seem to have the Romo de vivar in every single branch along with the Villasenor’s. I have noticed that in a document as well with Flores/Gomez being exchanged. By any chance can you email me that document in the link you posted ?
Link: https://sg30p0.familysearch.org/service/records/storage/dascloud/das/v2…
Is not working for me, says: “access denied”
The second link works fine
Thanks.
- Adrian

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Hi Adrian,

The one that opened was the death record, and it names her surname as Gómez. The Flores comes up in Celso Martin Franco’s civil birth record

Hopefully you can get one of these three links to work. All three of them are links to Celso Martin Franco’s civil birth record .

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QG7H-8VMN

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GPVV-VTV?i=570&cc=1918…

https://sg30p0.familysearch.org/service/records/storage/dascloud/das/v2…

Rick A. Ricci

Familias compostelanas

Soy especialista en el área de Nayarit, concretamente Tepic, Xalisco, Compostela y Bahía de Banderas; incluyendo el jalisciense municipio de San Sebastián del Oeste. Me gustaría conocer gente que estudie esta área para intercambiar información y colaborar, puesto que no hay mucha información y es un campo amplio para nuevas investigaciones. Saludos a todos.

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Buenas tardes,

A mi también me interesa esa área de Tepic y Compostela. Estoy investigando sobre algunas familias antiguas de la zona como los Jácome, Tovar, Muñiz de Velasco, López-Portillo, etc. Por ahora no he podido pasar con los Jácome más allá de Antonio Jácome de Sandoval, alférez real de Santiago de Compostela, que fundó capilla con enterramiento en la parroquia de Santiago en 1656 junto a su esposa Agustina de Tovar, de quien tampoco tengo información. Su hijo Pedro Jácome de Tovar casó con Regina López-Portillo y Galindo y tuvieron amplia descendencia en Guadalajara, que en posteriores generaciones enlazarían con los Muñiz de Velasco, del mismo origen pero con escasa documentación. En fin, espero que nuestros intereses se encuentren en esta búsqueda de información. También tengo interés en el área minera de la sierra (Amatlán de Jora, etcétera), por si coincidimos.

Saludos.

Reyes Family - mulatos from Sombrerete, Zacatecas in the 1700s

I'm not sure if I should post this in Genealogy Research or History, Culture and General Discussion:

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In the Obispado de Michoacan records, there are various examples where you can see that the scribes actually listed where in Africa the bride/groom were traffic'd from. For example:
Matrimonial Information for Diego Martin (Slave of D. Jose de Alcocer) and Maria de la Cruz - San Miguel el Grande (August 18, 1673)

In this case, they list the groom as "de nascion Angola".

An even earlier example here:

Matrimonial Information for Juan Serna (Slave of Alonso de Sierra) y Maria - Silao, GTO (April 1, 1634)

The groom was also listed as originating from Angola.

However, it's worth pointing out that the slaves were probably traded/sold in Angola, but may have come from a different African point of origin. Once on Mexican shores, the scribes probably just noted they came from Angola, not bothering to find out what true African nation they were enslaved from originally.

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Just a side note regarding the word "Mulato" is that many priests used Mulato for Mestizo, I've seen this in Zacatecas/Durango, I'm not sure what is the explanation other than they simply misused the term, thus keep in mind that that could also be a possibility.

The earlier records of Nombre de Dios Durango, practically borderline with Zacatecas, mentions quite a few Africans, I'm pretty sure the mining plays a role in it.

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What you say makes sense because there are way too many mulatos in my tree, for me to be only 3% African. I found an actual "mulato esclavo" on my father's side in Guanajuato which explains that.

I also have early family in Nombre de Dios. My oldest record so far is for a marriage between Juan Romero and Catalina (no last name given) in 1682. Neither have race listed in their marriage but 2 of the 3 children I've found are coiotes, the 3rd, my 8t GGM Ana Romero does not have a race listed but her son Pedro Romero (father unknown) is listed as Indio in his wedding.

Are the people you found listed as African or Black? I've yet to see a fully black person in any record, mine or anyone elses.

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What you say makes sense because there are way too many mulatos in my tree, for me to be only 3% African. I found an actual "mulato esclavo" on my father's side in Guanajuato which explains that.

I also have early family in Nombre de Dios. My oldest record so far is for a marriage between Juan Romero and Catalina (no last name given) in 1682. Neither have race listed in their marriage but 2 of the 3 children I've found are coiotes, the 3rd, my 8t GGM Ana Romero does not have a race listed but her son Pedro Romero (father unknown) is listed as Indio in his wedding.

Are the people you found listed as African or Black? I've yet to see a fully black person in any record, mine or anyone elses.

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Yeah, I've never seen anyone listed as African either, It always reads "Negro" or "Mulato" and the fact that very few records go back to the 1500's can explain why there is no much information from where exactly they traffic the African people, unfortunately.

The oldest film in FS from Nombre de Dios is really "sketchy", mix with marriages and burials and hardly has any information besides the basics, probably the one you where you found your ancestor record. I keep going back to it from time to time, now a least has a better digital images than before.

My ancestors from there the Quiralte family, were listed as coiotes, mulatos, indios, and españoles, all of this in the same couple/kids family. that's when I realized this terms weren't accurate, they were as far as I can tell meztisos, later they "gained" the "español" term when they moved to Nochistlán, its amusing how politicized those terms were.

Estancia del Monte

Hello everyone, I’m just right to give up on researching a branch that motivated me to start with this hobby, I’ve gotten to around the year 1821 with Tomas Sanchez, son of Trinidad Sanchez and María

FamilySearch blue boxes on Images

Suddenly every image of the Tlaltenango baptisms 1888-1889 on FamilySearch have blue boxes, outlining and sometimes obscuring the text.

upload

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I notice that too, for now I can only think of clicking on any of the indexed person in the bottom on the "image index tab" and it will highlight only that person allowing you to see the rest of the image.

Hopefully they implement a switch for ease of viewing. (unless there is one already, haven't check thoroughly.

Familias Riso y Gascón de los Altos

Hola:

¿Alguno de ustedes sabe el origen de estas familias en los Altos de Jalisco?

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My wife descends from Jose Vicente Gascon and Mariana Sánchez who were married on 13/ May /1765 in San Diego de Alejandría, Jalisco. She descends from their son Jose Antonio Gascon.

Rick A. Ricci

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I have worked on my cousins genealogy. They descend from Juana Josefa Gascon married to Jose Nicolas Herrera
marriage: 4 March 1783 San Agustin,Ayo El Chico,Jalisco,Mexico

Mis primos tambien descienden de un Pedro Camarena casado con Maria de San Juan Asencio, tambien de Ayo el Chico, Jalisco, por su hijo Francisco Camarena Asensio nacio en 1822.
R.A.Ricci

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Alfonso Reynoso Rabago

Es un apellido frecuente en la Sierra de Francia (en España). Hay controversia si la Sierra de Francia, en España, fue habitada por campesinos franceses desde los siglos XI, XII y XIII como medio de contención de los moros o como parte de la lucha por echarlos fuera de ese país. Según otras fuentes se llamó Sierra de Francia desde mucho antes. Hay información sobre estos asuntos en:

Pérez Casado, Ángel y Encinas Martín, Alfredo (2003). Peña de Francia: historia, arte, entorno. Salamanca: Editorial San Esteban.
Colunga, Alberto (1990). Santuario de la Peña de Francia: historia. Salamanca: Editorial San Esteban.

Que se puede consultar desde Gooogle Books.

Encontramos Gascón en Los Altos de Jalisco desde épocas remotas pues al parecer campesinos de la Sierra de Francia se establecieron en Los Altos de Jalisco y, de ahí, la creencia de muchos alteños que tienen origen francés. Hay un artículo que quizá te pueda mandar

Olivos Santoyo, Nicolás; Cuadriello

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It appears to be of French origin to me.

2014-11-28 19:15 GMT-06:00 :

> Alfonso Reynoso Rabago
>
> Es un apellido frecuente en la Sierra de Francia (en España). Hay
> controversia si la Sierra de Francia, en España, fue habitada por
> campesinos franceses desde los siglos XI, XII y XIII como medio de
> contención de los moros o como parte de la lucha por echarlos fuera de ese
> país. Según otras fuentes se llamó Sierra de Francia desde mucho antes. Hay
> información sobre estos asuntos en:
>
> Pérez Casado, Ángel y Encinas Martín, Alfredo (2003). Peña de Francia:
> historia, arte, entorno. Salamanca: Editorial San Esteban.
> Colunga, Alberto (1990). Santuario de la Peña de Francia: historia.
> Salamanca: Editorial San Esteban.
>
> Que se puede consultar desde Gooogle Books.
>
> Encontramos Gascón en Los Altos de Jalisco desde épocas remotas pues al
> parecer campesinos de la Sierra de Francia se establecieron en Los Altos de
> Jalisco y, de ahí, la creencia de muchos alteños que

Comentario

Aunque el apellido Gascón fue hispanizado, sus orígenes más
antiguos se encuentran en la region de Gasconge en Francia. Esto no significa
que todos que tuvieron el apellido fuesen parientes, porque simplesmente se
refiere a una persona que procedió de ahí.

Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino

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Alfonso Reynoso Rabago

Por supuesto, es de muchos conocido que el llevar un apellido no implica necesariamente que tienes los mismos ascendientes que otro que lleva ese apellido.

Yo di a decenas de niños apellidos. Muchos indígenas nahuas de la Sierra de Puebla no tenían apellido y como maestro de escuela me pusieron a hacer sus actas de nacimiento. Mi preocupación fue que los padres escogieran que apellido querían llevar y yo con frecuencia sugerí que llevaran como apellido los nombres de los padres. Otros maestros de escuela compañeros míos pusieron a los niños apellidos como Juárez, Hidalgo, Iturbide, etc.

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Estimado Enrique,

Si los Rizo son italiano pero no he tocado ese tema ni su genealogia, pero si conozco algunos que saben de esa familia. Sobre los Gascon,
puede ser frances o vasco, navarro, aragones o catalan. Ya que hubo mucho mezcla de frances y de esa area de la peninsula.

Daniel Méndez Camino

Comentario

Daniel muchas gracias por tu comentario.

Al parecer, tenía razón en mi suposición. Estuve buscando en Internet y vi información acerca que todos los Rizo en México vienen de una misma persona y me encantaría encontrar a los progenitores de este linaje.
Ya que me dices que conoces quienes saben de este tema, ¿Podrías indicarme por favor quiénes son las personas a las que podría preguntarles si tienen algunos de esos datos?

Saludos

Greetings from a new member

Saludos!

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Welcome!

I share a number of those locations-- Ciénega de Mata, Aguascalientes, Pinos, and Tlazazalca.

We can't wait to hear more from you!

R

Rodolfo Medina Gutierrez

Welcome Rodolfo Medina Gutierrez to Nuestrosranchos. I am a fifth cousin through your paternal grandmother. Our closest relationships are through our Romo and Reynoso lines.

Why are we doing Genealogy

Jonathan,

What a great question to ask the group............I have enjoyed reading everyone's postings and the various reasons for beginning to do Genealogical research and the reasons for continuing to do research.

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Good reading, I have found out a lot about my family. Last names changed but my grandfather and family had no clue. One great aunt (age 14) was raped by her half brother in front of my grandmother and had a child but no ones knows what happened to the child. Same aunt left with her husband and went with my great grandfather. Even now there is a lot of scandalous things that occur in the family, father raping daughter, uncle had children with niece. I had never heard of the past stories until I started working on the family tree and my mom and grandmother actually spoke of it. The world does not change, we had crazy things happening back then and still happening now. We all know about it but no one speaks of it.

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Alicia,

Re skeletons in the family closet: back in the 1980s when my mother and all her siblings were still alive, I found my mother and her only sister Emilia reluctant to tell me how one of their cousins was related to them---whose daughter was she. My mother and my aunt looked at each other as if to say, "should we tell her?". It was like pulling hen's teeth at first but I finally got it out of them that this cousin's mother was the daughter of a mistress of my great-grandfather. Now my mother and all her siblings are gone, except for Aunt Emilia, and she is spilling all the beans, no holds barred anymore. It is almost with glee, since everyone else is gone, that she is telling where all the bodies are buried. Also, all my research has uncovered many more "secrets".

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 3:27 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing Genealogy

Jonathan

Comentario

Emilie,
It doesn't cease to amaze me what secrets do to the human spirit and to families. It should be so much easier to deal with whatever ails us if we could only put it out there. Once things are out they are out, and not a thing people can do about it. After all we can't change the past and we can't go back and change things. What's done is done!! I'm so glad my family was able to deal with my great grandfather's second family and accept them, after all they are family?? Of course, to this day, there are still those who want to keep the undesirable secret or so they think, the more you try to keep it a secret, the more tantalizing it becomes.

Your Aunt Emilia is probably peeling off the weight of all those family members who have gone before her.
My applause to Aunt Emilia, for letting it out and freeing all those trapped spirits.

Thanks for sharing,
Alicia

________________________________
From: Emilie Garcia
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 5

Comentario

Oh, yes! One of my tias was highly insulted when I revealed that my
grandfather was a child whose father was not on his birth record. She
very emphatically told her sisters that it was NOT true.

Then, I just recently learned that this same grandfather was not the
eldest in his family as I'd always been told. I found information
(and on the new Family History pilot site, hurray!) that showed his
brother was his elder by 3 years. THAT record was another "no father
listed." :( Pobre visabuela mia. Marge:)

On Feb 22, 2009, at 5:27 PM, Alicia Carrillo wrote:

Jonathan,

What a great question to ask the group............I have enjoyed
reading everyone's postings and the various reasons for beginning to
do Genealogical research and the reasons for continuing to do research.

Thanks everyone for sharing so openly and honestly, it makes for a
great book on Genealogy.

Now another question, is anyone in your family offended because you do
family research and with the

Comentario

No apology needed. I would think that anyone honestly researching genealogy would expect to find such things. As of now, I've only researched a couple of years, 1856-58, in Aguas, Aguas, on the pilot site, and I'll admit that at first I was surprised, but now I'm mostly intrigued at how many "libro recervado", "no se dice", and "N." for last name entries there are. Recently, I asked the group if anyone knew how to access such "libro recervado" information and received no response. With so many entries, I can't believe that no one within our group has family members hidden away in a "libro recervado". I'd love to know. These mysteries make genealogy all the more interesting! Alice BB
--- rricci@lausd.net wrote:

From: "Ricci, Richard"
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing Genealogy
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:35:38 -0800

I am sorry if I offended anyone with my response. I did not mean to offend anyone with these details. I have been wrestling with disclosing

Comentario

Alice,
I have not seen libro reservado yet for Nochistlan, but I'm sure it must exist somewhere. Some of the indiscretions of some of my ancestors are well know and documented. There's an entire branch of my GGgrandfather's children that are recorded in Hijos Naturales with both parents duly noted, nothing hidden there. We have always known of his second family.

It's a great topic for discussion when we gather with that branch of the family.

I would say that for the most part, most of us just want to know where we come from, about our ancestors and what makes us who we are, our customs, traditions, culture and heritage, everything else is just the icing on the cake.

Alicia

________________________________
From: AliceBB
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 10:21:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing Genealogy

No apology needed. I would think that anyone honestly researching genealogy would expect to find such things. As of now, I've

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Dear Alicia,

How do i answer your question regarding skeletons?
Let me start by saying that one of the reasons that Jaime Holcombe was such a great genealogist, besides his work ethic and his meticulous attention to detail, was his ability to work through, discover and report the skeletons that he came across. He did not find all of them, but he reported the ones he did find.
In the valle de guadalupe we have have had some excellent genealogist that have gained some recognition for their work, I am not embarassed to say that I am one of them. I am embarassed about the next part. For such a small town with so many genealogist gaining some fame, there is a lack of truthful reportimg in some of the genealogies. MMy tio doctor Rito Romo never published his writings because he kept putting it off as he wrestled with this queston, His wife, my aunt, was afraid that he would reveal famliy secrets. A book was recently published by a genealogist from the Valle that every one praises

Comentario

Richard,

I didn't intend to pry in to sensitive material for anyone......just wondered if this was problematic for anyone else. I know in my family there is a lot of lore that has some truth to it and I've been asked by some family relations "why are you doing this"? Some believe that I'm trying to uncover some dirt and that has never been my intention.

As far as I know there are a couple of other distant family members doing Genealogy but I have yet to meet them in person. Most of the family is intrigued by the findings and how it is that we can trace our ancestry. It has been a pleasure to share what I have with different branches of the family. To see the wonderment in their eyes when they see the actual documents that trace back several generations and to hear them say, no wonder my father or mother used to say, "THIS IS YOUR TIO OR TIA or YOUR COUSIN" but I never knew how they were related to me.

I did find one skeleton but rather than flinch, they were intrigued and wanted to

Comentario

Hi Alicia and Richard! I agree with Alicia, I have found out so many 'interesting stories' (scandals, hatred, love stories, murders, betrayals) Maybe I can post some on Ranchos one day. MY goodness it sounds like novela on "el catorce." But really if its something really bad, I still want to know its part of who you are and your family history. Like one would be my cuarto bisabuelo don Estevan López had an affair with a younger women Gorgonia de Mendoza and had two kids. Apparently only some certain confidants he had knew about it, one was his son-in-law's two brothers Viviano and Manuel del Camino. And some others. his wife didnot find out until these two kids were about 12 or so. By then he Estevan had long been dead when his two hijos naturales were 6 and 7. Lets say Estevan wasnt the faithfulest man on the hacienda! On there records baptisms ( they have the last name López but "de padre no conocido" y Gorgonia de Mendoza" Everyone knew he was the father except his wife and his

Comentario

That same sort of stuff is on the Sagrada Mitra book because it's in
the official record, so no big deal in those cases. In those days,
lots of people couldn't read so they didn't have the privelege of
trumpeting all the juicy gossip everywhere. We call one person in
this area around here "Channel 5" because like the tv station, she's
the first in "Breaking News." And I think it would be a great idea to
write the documented stories on NR, if Josef permits. Marge:)

On Feb 22, 2009, at 11:47 PM, Daniel M�ndez del Camino wrote:

Hi Alicia and Richard! I agree with Alicia, I have found out so many
'interesting stories' (scandals, hatred, love stories, murders,
betrayals) Maybe I can post some on Ranchos one day. MY goodness it
sounds like novela on "el catorce." But really if its something really
bad, I still want to know its part of who you are and your family
history. Like one would be my cuarto bisabuelo don Estevan López had
an affair with a younger women

Comentario

The problem is that the stories that I have on some of the families is not centuries old but 30 to 130 years old and may be too close in time for some people. We are talking of people getting upset about their grandparents and greatgrandparents information.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Marge Vallazza
Sent: Mon 2/23/2009 12:53 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Family skeletons

That same sort of stuff is on the Sagrada Mitra book because it's in
the official record, so no big deal in those cases. In those days,
lots of people couldn't read so they didn't have the privelege of
trumpeting all the juicy gossip everywhere. We call one person in
this area around here "Channel 5" because like the tv station, she's
the first in "Breaking News." And I think it would be a great idea to
write the documented stories on NR, if Josef permits. Marge:)

On Feb 22, 2009, at 11:47 PM, Daniel

Comentario

I am sorry if I offended anyone with my response. I did not mean to offend anyone with these details. I have been wrestling with disclosing these details and being completely honest with the people who ask me questions about their family. By partially disclosing this way I guess I am testing the waters as to whether or not I should have full disclosure.
________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Sun 2/22/2009 8:31 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing Genealogy

Dear Alicia,

How do i answer your question regarding skeletons?
Let me start by saying that one of the reasons that Jaime Holcombe was such a great genealogist, besides his work ethic and his meticulous attention to detail, was his ability to work through, discover and report the skeletons that he came across. He did not find all of them, but he reported the ones he did find.
In the valle de guadalupe we

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As for me I can say no, not on my Mexican side anyways. I have not been able to find out anything that I did not post initially when I signed up with this group. I am still left with the same information. However on my American side, yes, several family members are not too happy with the skeletons in the closet..But it is what it is. I just want to find out more about my Acatic relatives. There was a great dispute when I was a baby that seperated the family, and it is sad, because I still know little about my extended family other than my fathers brothers and sisters. Even that is not great. But I will keep trying.
Cindy Gutierrez

________________________________
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 3:27:55 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Why are we doing Genealogy

Jonathan,

What a great question to ask the group............I have enjoyed reading everyone's postings and the various reasons for beginning to do Genealogical research

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I must say I have enjoyed everyone's responses. I myself started nearly 20 years ago. It was something my mother and I had always talked about, but I ended up taking the plunge and have never stopped....its addicting....its like finding buried treasure. I have always had a passion for history and archaeology and even though I never majored in archaeology, I love digging for the truth.

When I first started I was looking for my San Juan Capistrano, California ancestors. Well, I found them, and that my Californio ancestors traveled with Anza to San Francisco and settled in Santa Clara County.....I have roots in San Diego, San Juan Capistrano, San Gabriel Valley, Santa Clara County and a Spanish land grant in Galt, CA with a city park named after my ancestors, Chabolla.

My Los Altos ancestors are many. My fathers family came from Aguascalientes and settled in the San Gabriel Valley of California....many other Aguascalientes families did as well, not just mine......

Since joining this

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Rose, my maternal grandfather's surname was Chavoya. I have many ancestors from Los Altos. His lineage includes Chabolla, Chagolla, Chagoya, and many other variations of Chavoya. There is a large group of Chavoya(s) that reside in Dallas, Texas that descend from Tereso Chavoya. I have been wondering how/if we are related to the large group of Chavoya (or Chabolla) that reside in California.

Would you be willing to share the names of your ancestors that lived in Los Altos. I would be happy to share my research with you.

My email is arosales705@gmail.com. My DNA gedmatch is A899794.

I look forward to hearing from you.
Alma H Rosales

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Alicia,
That is an interesting question. Fortunately, I have had no such reaction. I
find that my family members are either very interested and amazed at the
info I've found or take absolutely no interest in it. However, I haven't
uncovered any "skeletons" yet, at least none that weren't already partially
known.

-Angelina-

Slavery in Tlaltenango

I recently came across this Baptism entry in which the child is mentioned to be slave of Balthazar Correa.

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In general, from my own experience reading through the Tlaltenango films, I've seen far more people classified as mulatos libres than esclavos. But they do exist.

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Hola a todos:

En el blog "historias y recuerdos de Encarnación" del Arq. Rodolfo Hernéndez hay un capítulo sobre los esclavos en la zona y en dicho artículo se cita el trabajo de los investigadores que han recopilado las listas y lugares en donde hubieron esclavos, como Celina Guadalupe Becerra.

Saludos

Marcelina

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Thank you so much for this blog, it was a great blog for historical information. A lot of my ancestors on my mothers side are named in this blog and I had no clue until I read it. Is this a blog only or was this printed into a book as well? I would love to read more about Los Altos Jalisco, do you know if there are books or blogs with this information? I notice mention of “el rancho viejo” in the blog and on my fathers side, my 5x great grandfather was from there Rafael Hernández Montes but he was a mulato and was married to María Josefa Hernández Mesa mulata of Tarimoro. On my fathers side a lot of my ancestors were from Tarimoro and I know there was an hacienda there but can’t find much information about the hacienda and the owners.

Thank you,
Esther

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Depending upon what year it was corresponding to the record you submitted, the Balthazar Correa who is named might very well be my Grandmother's first husband's Great Great Grandfather whose name was Miguel Castañeda Correa. Balthazar de los Reyes Correa was married to Maria Magdalena de Avila in Tlaltenango in 1737. I made the following note taken from a baptism where they are referred to as a couple: "Don Baltazar Correa and his wife Doña Maria Magdalena de Avila are named in the baptism of their grandson Lugardo Gonzalez Correa in Tapias, Zacatecas, close to Atolinga, Zacatecas" . Regardless if this is the same Balthazar Correa, slavery as unfortunate as it may be was not uncommon in the region. You'll find many of us share ancestors in the Tlaltenango region who were slaveowners. And you'll also find many who will trace their roots to slaves and thus are part of our heritage.

Other references to slaves are found in many of the older Tlaltenango census lists as well.

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As I mentioned there are several of us that I am aware from this region whose descendants owned slaves, my own included. And I have at least one descendant who was identified as a free slave leading to Tlaltenango from Guadalajara in about the year 1700. May I say my reply to your question regarding the existence of slavery in this region was to inform that the practice was a historical reality. I also realize many, especially those new to genealogy of relatives in Mexico are not aware that slavery existed there.

I am hoping you understand that providing information I have to identify families who owned slaves in my opinion would serve no good purpose and whose motives could easily and understandably be misinterpreted.

Respectfully submitted

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I sincerely believe that not providing information to identify families who owned slaves in the region is worst than identifying them.

We need to come to terms with our past even if that involves slavery. Slaves were people who found themselves de humanized as property, burying that in the past will only make the injustice greater.

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i agree. i always identify slave owning families and post the information on my tree whether i'm related to them or not. knowing who the slave owning families are helps others in their search for ancestors. there's no logical reason for not providing the information.

Danny

Does anyone know how to get documents to open in Aguascalientes Public Archive?

Hi Everyone,

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The site is up and running. If it asks you to sign in, userid and password shown in the initial note work.

The trick is to ensure you are using MS Internet Explorer (Edge won't work) and you must have MS Silverlight to actually view the document. My current machine does not work, but I still have an older machine on windows 7 with both explorer and silverlight. This has allowed me to view images. I viewed one this evening.

You can also try writing to folks that manage the archives and ask if they will pull a specific document for you. They did it for me once, but they didn't respond to subsequent requests.

FYI... I tried to find the document referenced under the topic Compraventa de Esclavo. The system only allowed me to view the first page of results. Not sure why. I also tried to find a record for Fernando de la Campa y Coz and didn't find anything under Contratantes. I would have been happy to pull it for you if I could have found it.

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It was down for months, I contacted them via facebook and email and said that the servers was turned off, and that they didn't know if it was going to be back up soon.
I checked two weeks ago, and it was working again.

This time I've been saving as many documents as possible for fear it might be down in the future again.

Romo de Vivar in Aguascalientes

There were several men named Francisco Xavier Romo de Vivar in Aguascalientes in the early 1700's. My research is focused on the man that was married to Juana Dias Montanes de Sandi.

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I am also have a brick wall on Francisco Xavier Romo de Vivar in Aguascalientes in the early 1700s that was married to Juana Dias Montanes de Sandi. Francisco and Juana left many descendants in Theocaltiche, Jalisco. I have a daughter of his marrying in 1741 in Theocaltiche Jalisco. I also have them baptizing a child in 1741 in Aguascalientes and another child in Theocaltiche in 1748.

Rick A. Ricci

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I am also have a brick wall on Francisco Xavier Romo de Vivar in Aguascalientes in the early 1700s that was married to Juana Dias Montanes de Sandi. Francisco and Juana left many descendants in Theocaltiche, Jalisco. I have a daughter of his marrying in 1741 in Theocaltiche Jalisco.

Rick A. Ricci

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I am also have a brick wall on Francisco Xavier Romo de Vivar in Aguascalientes in the early 1700s that was married to Juana Dias Montanes de Sandi. Francisco and Juana left many descendants in Theocaltiche, Jalisco. I have a daughter of his marrying in 1741 in Theocaltiche Jalisco.

Rick A. Ricci

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I am looking for the parents of Joaquin Munoz de la Barba who is married to Gerónima de Escoto y Tovar. Gerónima was also known as Jeronima De Rodas Ortiz. Joaquín was born circa 1670 and Jeronima was born circa 1672. Jeronima Is the daughter of Ygnacio Escotto and Beatriz.
I descend from Joaquin and Jeronima. They lived in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

Thank you

Rick A. Ricci

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The Matrimonial Investigation for Cristoval Romo de Vivar and Maria Barba is in the Aguascalientes records. See Matrimonial Investigations for 1719-23, image 109 and following pages. It notes that she is from Cienga de Mata, and her parents are as you noted and is 20 years old.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Listado Padrones Parroquiales de Jalisco (Nueva Galicia )

Hola Buenos días a todos los compañeros

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Muchísimas gracias. Este descubrimiento me va ayudar por años. Hasta encontré un mapa de los ranchos de mis antepasados. Se lo agradezco mucho.

Andelmo

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Si ayudan muchísimo ya que hay una laguna de matrimonios entre los años 1600 a 1700, y lo importante es que todos sepan donde se pueden obtener los documentos sin fines de lucro como lo hace familysearch

Intro and Inquiry (Romo de Vivar)

Good evening, all. My name is Sebastian and I have been digging through records to expand my knowledge about my ancestors.

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Hi Sebastian,

We are closely related thru these Calvillo families. The Romo de Vivar, López de Nava, Martínez de Sotomayor and Velasco families intermarried heavily in the Valle de Huejúcar. They were four of the most principal troncos in the valley. Anyone that has Spanish blood will connect to them somehow.

I have not seen any documents that list Miguel parents. We know Isabel Rosaura was the daughter of don Gabriel López de Nava and doña Nicolasa de Valenzuela y Soto thru various dispensas, including her own. Doña Isabel Rosaura also married don Joseph Antonio Martínez de Sotomayor y Valenzuela, who is the son of my 9th great grand uncle/aunt. They received dispensa on 27 Mar 1765 in Tabasco, Zacatecas.

Here is the link to said dispensa:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-629X-BM?i=496&cc=18745…

Feel free to email me, I'd love to chat about these families.

Warm regards,

Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino

My first dispensation

I need help with this record. I'm trying to get some of it transcribed (so I can use google translate afterwards).

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Pedro Gonzalez is born on 25/Feb/1884, son of Ygnacio Gonzalez and Lucrecia Ynfante https://sg30p0.familysearch.org/service/records/storage/dascloud/das/v2…

Ygnacio Gonzalez is the son of Maria Gonzalez

Lucrecia is the daughter of Cleofas Ynfante and Maria Moreno

Maria Refugio Briceño daughter of Adrian Briceño and Lorenza Macias (married on 5/July/1877)

Adrian is the son of Bartolo Briceño and Lugarda Moreno. Adrian’s death is recorded on 6/Aug/1915.

Lorenza is the daughter of Martin Masias and Ma. Guadalupe Martinez

Rick A. Ricci

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Maria de la Encarnacion Gonzalez Macias so the the relationship May be though the Moreno, Gonzalez or Macias sides.

The record that you named gives a specific place where the marriage dispensation can be found. The record identifies exactly where the record should be found.

As to Lucrecia (lucia) Ynfante parents:
Even though one record shows the couple as Cleofas Ynfante and Maria Moreno, in all the other records he is known as Maximo Ynfante. Though most records show her as Maria Moreno, two records show her as Maria Cresencia Moreno.

Ygnacio Gonzalez’s parents are Juan Gonzalez and Maria Gonzalez.

Rick A. Ricci

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Please let me know if you find the dispensation. I would like to see it as I think it will show how they are related through their Gonzalez ancestral lines.

Thank You,
Rick A. Ricci

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Ricci,

I see the family of Pedro Gonzalez added to wikitree....my question is what member of this family had wealth? The person I'm helping swears Pedro's family was wealthy. I'm wondering what line the wealth came from. I see a lot of your work on the Moreno family. Was that it? Is there any evidence? I also see how you've researched back to the 1500s with the Alonso Moreno de Ortega family. Where can I look for more info on this family? Gracias.

Juan González de Hermosillo

Hola:

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Hola Jesús,

Many researchers believe that Juan González de Hermosillo, natural de Guadalcanal y vecino de Jalostotitlán, was the same Juan González de Hermosilla, who, in 1582, petitioned the Casa de Contratación in Sevilla for permission to be allowed to travel to Nueva España, accompanied by his wife and children and a criada. This Juan González de Hermosilla (also written “Hermosillo” in the document), who was the son of Gonzalo Garcia de Hermosillo, vecino de Guadalcanal, had a brother, also named Gonzalo Garcia de Hermosillo, who was living in las Minas de los Zacatecas en la Nueva España, who had written him to join him. The name of their mother is not given.

Supporting this theory is the fact that Juan González de Hermosillo and Ana Muñoz were known to have had a son named Gonzalo de Hermosillo (source: Cofradía de las Benditas Ánimas del Purgatorio de Jalostotitlán, 13 Apr 1637: Se asentó por cofrade Gonzalo de Hermosillo, difunto hermano de Juan González de Hermosillo y de

Nieto Corona (Jalisco/Zacatecas/Aguascalientes/San Luis Potosi)

Many of the early families of Aguacalientes also had relations in San Luis Potosi.

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I wonder if anyone has any info on the Nieto family in New Mexico. Knowing that many of the NM colonists came from Zacatecas area, I wonder if Nieto came from there and is connected to the families discussed here. There was an alcalde Jose Nieto born in 1616 and died in the Pueblo Indian uprising of 1680. His son was Cristobal Nieto, born 1648 in New Mexico.

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Thank you very much for the information on the parents for Esteban Nieto m. Ana Rodriguez!

Saludos.
Austin Perez

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Hi David,

I'm unable to answer why your Esteban Nieto's descendants would use "Corona," nor do I have anything directly linking him to Esteban Nieto and Ysabel Perez, but here's what I have in my notes. You may already have some of these. These are from Sagrario, San Luis Potosi (much of which hasn't been indexed):

I have Esteban Nieto baptizing 3 children, possibly with the same woman: Ysabel Benavides, Ysabel Perez, Ysabel Alvarez:

1. Sebastian Nieto Benavides, b. 21 Feb 1616 (might be the same married to Ysabel Perez, below)
2. Juan Nieto Perez, b. 25 Sep 1633
3. Antonio Nieto Alvarez, b. 16 Oct 1640

Someone named Esteban Nieto (likely the one married to Ysabel Benavides) registered a cattle brand, looks like Jun 1620:
Registro de hierros y señales 1597-1615, exp 1-4 img175
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-958X-QGZJ?mode=g&i=174&wc=…

Your Esteban Nieto and Ana Diaz married 26 Nov 1670, Sagrario SLP. They're categorized as "Mestizos," though their chldren

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Actually, I thought it said "Juan" in the margin, but when I looked at the paragraph, it says "Estevan":

26 Sep 1633
Estevan hijo de Estevan Nieto y de Ysabel Perez su muger
p Juan Sevillano
(right image) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9G2L-9MGV?mode=g&i=335&wc=…

I'm thinking Blas Nieto and Ysabel Perez are the same couple; check the timelines.

Manny Diez Hermosillo

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Thank you for the information Manny. Some I had, some was new. I am wondering if Blas Nieto (husband of Ysabel Perez) is the same Blas Nieto from that Dispensa.

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Hi David,

Here's Esteban Nieto cc Juana Gonzalez, in the 1684 SLP Padron. Left image, top right, listed with them is a child named Santiago Ruiz. I wonder if this was a notary's error, since Juana Gonzalez died before 1670?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-DX9V-7V?i=345&wc=3JMN-GP8