TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

sorry, forgot to say that part of the family stablished in Jesus 
Maria, Jalisco, the ranch is called Mesa de Oñate, neighbor to ranchos 
Puertecito and Paso Bajo owned by familia Leon, decendants of De Cos Y
Leon. So Long Leticia Leon Morales

hello everybody  I uploaded a portion of my genealogy on the maternal 
side of my father, this Oñate resided in San Pedro Piedra Gorda, Gto. 
(nowadays is City Manuel Doblado), legend in the family said that four 
brothers came from Spain, two stayed and two went back. When was it 
and who and who where they? my father doesn`t know. Maybe happened in 
1820`s or maybe far long. Anybody related? Go to ranchos 2 and look in 
the folder of genealogies  Thankyou all.  Leticia Leon Morales aka 
lili pinzon

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Linda R Romero's Ancestors/Ramon Romero, Sr.-Marie L. Hallstead.doc 
  Uploaded by : imanoldretiree <romero89@...> 
  Description :  

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Linda%20R%20Romero%27s%20Ancestors/Ramon%20Romero%2C%20Sr.-Marie%20L.%20Hallstead.doc 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

imanoldretiree <romero89@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Linda R Romero's Family 
  Uploaded by : imanoldretiree <romero89@...> 
  Description : Romero, de la Torre of Tepatitlan de Morelos, Jalisco 

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Linda%20R%20Romero%27s%20Family 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

imanoldretiree <romero89@...>
 

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Josie T. Trevino" <Josiett3@s...> wrote:
>
> Victor.......is this the complete message? It appears that you left off in
> the middle of a sentence......Thanks! Josie
>
> _____
>

Josie, it looks like the message got truncated.  Below is a copy of that same message.

----------------------->

That's a keen observation and a good question about the number of differences in our mtDNA in relation to the CRS reference.

Let's start by saying that the CRS (Cambridge Reference Sequence) is just an arbitrary reference selected by some team of geneticist that were among the first to study the genetic sequences of mitochondrial DNA.  They decided to use the sequence of one of their subjects as a comparison reference, maybe one of their own samples, who knows?.  The selected mtDNA belongs to haplogroup H, the most prevalent haplogroup in Europe.  Therefore many European persons who get tested have few differences if any with the CRS reference.

Next, what the commercial tests show us about our mtDNA is not the whole sequence of mtDNA but just one or two regions:  HVR1 and HVR2 (Hyper Variable Regions).  Supposedly these two regions don't have any medical implications so having a few more or a few less mutations is not very significant.  But that is not always the case in the remainder of the mtDNA molecule.  Some mutations could be good while other mutations could be bad in terms of health and disease.

To better understand what we're talking about let's use an analogy.  DNA sequences are a string of chemical bases limited to four possible values A, T, C and G (Adenine, Thymine, Cytosine and Guanine).  So think about a collar made up of coloured beads.  The beads come in just four colors: red, yellow, green and blue.    Now look at the following comparison between CRS and my own mtDNA in the 16310-16320 segment:

http://www.studyspanish.com/accents/typing.htm

joseph

Jose Ramon,

 

Cuando leo tus correos siento que escribes con tanta pasion y mucha sabiduria. Es un honor para el grupo que seas uno de los integrantes. Agregas algo muy rico a la mezcla de Ranchos. Yo tambien busco con anhelo mis raices mestizas, castas o indigenas y creo que
mantengo una mente abierta para poder ver lo que se presente por enfrente.

 

Jose Ramon,

 

When I read your postings I feel that you write with much passion and knowledge. It's an honor for this group to have you as a member. You add much to the knowledgeable mix of Ranchos ( I am not very knowledgeable yet! ). I too search with zeal for my mestizo, caste or indigenous roots and I believe and hope that I should always keep my mind open so that when the facts present themselves, whatever they may be I will be open and present to the reality.

 

Thanks for your contributions,

 

Alicia Carrillo

San Jose, Ca

[I made a mistake and misread what Linda said so the error corrected
starts after the double lines]

Linda R Romero wrote:

Ed, Joseph: I'm afraid I haven't figured out my haplogroup. I do
not have my fathers Y-DNA, that's why I need my brother's
cooperation. He and I have the same parents. I only have my mtDNA and
my mother is not Spanish. I also have 3 half brothers, but since
their mother's are not the same as mine, I haven't bothered to ask
them. My father's sister is dead so I have no mtDNA on my father's
side. A total shame.

[NOTE: I wrote this and then carefully re-read the message. . .i see
where Linda said her fathers sister didn't have any natural children. So
disregard the application of the following. I still left it in because I
can still make another point on finding her Mt-DNA, but now it will be
much more of a challenge]

anyone please jump in and correct me if I'm wrong.

through the male you can test for Y-DNA and it is passed on to his male
chilcren and to his male grandchildren and to his male g-grandchildren, etc

though the male you can test for Mt-DNA but it is not passed on to his
children

through the female you can test for the Mt-DNA and it is passed on to
her children and to her female grandchildren etc, but not to her male
grandchildren.

Maria,

Your first thought is correct.  You and your brother share the same
mitochondrial DNA so there's no need for you to take the same test.  

If you were testing autosomal DNA then your results and your brother's
could be slightly different, but the usefulness and accuracy of such
tests is very limited for our genealogical purposes and it is not
recommended.

With your brother's Y-DNA and mt-DNA tests you will know your paternal
Y-chromosome lineage and your maternal mitochondrial lineage.  The
next logical step if you wanted to research your genetic origins any
further would to be to test either a maternal uncle's Y-DNA or a
paternal aunt's mt-DNA, or both.  

We have to remember that genetic lines (Y-DNA & mt-DNA) branch out and
multiply exactly like a genealogical tree.  We start with two parents
and then four grandparents and then eight great-grandparents.  

When we discover one of our genetic lines there is one ancestor at
each generational step that has the same genetic line just like
patrilineal surnames, with the difference that in old times people
used to change their surnames but here there's no way we can change
one's haplogroup.  If we had a way to genetically test all our lines,
as branches in our tree multiply going back in time it is very likely
that some genetic lineages would appear repeatedly as some families
tended to intermarry with a limited number of families, particularly
when population was scarce. Whenever this has happened in ancient
times these events are called a "bottle neck" event and are reflected
by a lesser genetic diversity.

Saludos,

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "readysetgo95814" <mcortez3@g...> wrote:
>
> 
> Victor,
> 
> Thanks for the wonderful explanation on DNA. It didn't come across
as patronizing at all.
> 
> I have a question about something you stated for you or anyone else
who may know the answer:  "Since we're not clones, half of those 46
chromosomes come from each of  our progenitors. 23 from the father and
23 from the mother to make 23 pairs..."
> 
> My brother is taking both the yDNA and the mtDNA tests.  I was
thinking that since we come from the same set of parents there would
be no benefit to having my DNA analyzed, but after reading the above I
am thinking otherwise.  Perhaps it would be more valuable to have a
great uncle or aunt from both sides of the family (since all my
grandparents are dead) have their DNA analyzed.  
> 
> Maria 

Victor,

Thanks for the wonderful explanation on DNA. It didn't come across as patronizing at all.

I have a question about something you stated for you or anyone else who may know the answer:  "Since we're not clones, half of those 46 chromosomes come from each of  our progenitors. 23 from the father and 23 from the mother to make 23 pairs..."

My brother is taking both the yDNA and the mtDNA tests.  I was thinking that since we come from the same set of parents there would be no benefit to having my DNA analyzed, but after reading the above I am thinking otherwise.  Perhaps it would be more valuable to have a great uncle or aunt from both sides of the family (since all my grandparents are dead) have their DNA analyzed. 

Maria

Thank you Emily, Joseph, Arturo, Leticia, Angie, Mary, Irma, for all
the help you sent. Some of the information I knew but some was new
to me and much appreciated. I need all the help I can get.

I have just spent 3 hours copying the emails from the group to my
word file -- while trying not to include all the repeated information
at the bottom of the emails. I can then read them while on the road
to AZ. All the information in these emails is great and I don't want
to lose it.

Ed, Joseph: I'm afraid I haven't figured out my haplogroup. I do
not have my fathers Y-DNA, that's why I need my brother's
cooperation. He and I have the same parents. I only have my mtDNA and
my mother is not Spanish. I also have 3 half brothers, but since
their mother's are not the same as mine, I haven't bothered to ask
them. My father's sister is dead so I have no mtDNA on my father's
side. A total shame. All my cousins are from his brother, Rosendo.
His sister adopted her only child. We called her "Blondie" because
of her obvious Anglo heritage. I am shmit out of luck (as far as I
can figure) for mtDNA for my Spanish side.

How does one figure out their haplogroup? I am confused (as usual).
I didn't get "assigned" a haplogroup when I got my results. I only
got my HVR-1 AND HVR-2 readouts with the mutations highlighted.

Linda Romero

Josie,

That's a keen observation and a good question about the number of differences in our mtDNA in relation to the CRS reference.

Let's start by saying that the CRS (Cambridge Reference Sequence) is just an arbitrary reference selected by some team of geneticist that were among the first to study the genetic sequences of mitochondrial DNA.  They decided to use the sequence of one of their subjects as a comparison reference, maybe one of their own samples, who knows?.  The selected mtDNA belongs to haplogroup H, the most prevalent haplogroup in Europe.  Therefore many European persons who get tested have few differences if any with the CRS reference.

Next, what the commercial tests show us about our mtDNA is not the whole sequence of mtDNA but just one or two regions:  HVR1 and HVR2 (Hyper Variable Regions).  Supposedly these two regions don't have any medical implications so having a fewer more or a fewer less mutations is not very significant.  But that is not always the case in the remainder of the mtDNA molecule.  Some mutations could be good while other mutations could be bad in terms of health and disease.

To better understand what we're talking about let's use an analogy.  DNA sequences are a string of chemical bases limited to four possible values A, T, C and G (Adenine, Thymine, Cytosine and Guanine).  So think about a collar made up of coloured beads.  The beads come in just four colors: red, yellow, green and blue.    Now look at the following comparison between CRS and my own mtDNA in the 16310-16320 segment:

CRS Reference:   TACATAAAAC