TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

Emily,

I think they call it "Mexican"; I am joking and not joking. Seriously, there are no pure 
Spaniards down there anymore unless they emigrated in the last generation. I am told that 
there are some pure Native American Indians though.

Ed
--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" <auntyemfaustus@h...> wrote:
>
> Victor,
> 
> I thought they called it the "Mestizaje"?  However, that word is not in my Spanish 
dictionary.  I found "mescladura" and "mezcolanza".  What say you, Jose Roman?  What do 
they call it in Mexico?
> 
> Emilie Garcia
> Port Orchard, WA ---
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: v.h.villarreal<mailto:raices_regias@y...> 
>   To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com> 
>   Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:00 AM
>   Subject: [ranchos] Re: Trevino match, DNA and the Today show
> 
> 
>   --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com>, "Edward 
Serros" <ed@s<mailto:ed@s>...> wrote:
>   > 
>   > For starters I have 4 grandparents (Serros, Felguerez, Salas,
>   Suarez) and the following is 
>   > the DNA data that I have gathered. They all have a "story", which in
>   some cases made me 
>   > check a great grandparent line. The results sometimes help when we
>   get to the genealogy 
>   > road blocks that we all arrive at.
>   > 
>   > Felguerez great grandfather (Y-DNA haplogroup K), Pinedo (mtDNA
>   haplogroup A), Cerros 
>   > (Y-DNA haplogroup R1b1c*) Salas (Y-DNA haplogroup R1b), Suarez
>   (Y-DNA haplogroup 
>   > Q), Sosa (mtDNA haplogroup C).
>   > 
>   > Ed
>   > 
> 
>   Ed,
> 
>   The Americans talk about the "melting pot";  the Canadians speak about
>   a "mosaic".  The Italians tutti frutti.
> 
>   What could we call the Mexican mix?  Capirotada?  Sopa de Letras?
> 
>   Victor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 
> 

Linda,

What mtDNA haplogroup did they assign you? Who provided the specimen?

Your brother has your father's Y-DNA and he has your mtDNA and your mother's mtDNA, 
assuming you have the same parents. The latter assumption sometimes is a huge 
assumption and leads to very interesting discussions.

Ed

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Linda R Romero <romero89@e...> wrote:
>
> First I'd like to thank everyone who has sent me information and  
> suggestions for my research into my Romero/de la Torre surname.   
> Though I've been to SLC several times, research is slow.  I am late  
> in answering you because of our preparations for our winter trip to  
> Arizona.  All the last minute obligations, home repairs, and doctor  
> visits are taking longer than anticipated.  However, the latest DNA  
> postings have stopped me in my tracks.
> 
> My mother is English/German/Scottish/Irish/etc. but my mtDNA seems to  
> track pretty close with my Dad, who was born in Jalisco.
> 
> 16428[A]
> 16256[T]
> 16270[T]
> 16399[G]
> 249[G]
> 263[G]	
> 73[G]
> 16362[C]
> 
> My brother has agreed to have his DNA tested for my research.  I have  
> made neither heads nor tails of my mtDNA information before now.  I  
> guess I will need a class to learn more.
> 
> Your kindness in answering my questions and our similar mtDNA results  
> have made me feel like a real member of this group.  I plan on more  
> active participation when I'm settled in AZ this winter.
> 
> Linda Romero
>

Gary is only focused on yDNA... paternal lines and his group is very 
much focused on the "conquistadores" and Spanish lineages.

The mtDNA data for Mexico shows that most of the maternal genetic 
material in modern Mexico is indigenous and given the demographic 
collapse that occured shortly after contact with the Spanish, and the 
subsequent movement of indigenous labor around the country, the mtDNA 
information would draw a very different picture than the data Gary is 
gathering.

We might be able to trace the ethnic groups of our indigenous 
ancestors or at the very least learn about the migration patterns and 
settlement waves that resulted in the indigenous population of Mexico.


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" <auntyemfaustus@h...> 
wrote:
>
> Arturo,
> 
> I thought Gary Felix' was the Mexico DNA group.
> 
> Emilie Garcia
> Port Orchard, WA ---
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Arturo Ramos<mailto:arturo.ramos2@v...> 
>   To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com> 
>   Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 11:52 AM
>   Subject: [ranchos] Re: Haplogroup A ancestor---we are a match
> 
> 
>   Margarita:
> 
>   Is your father still living?  If he did the test, you would be 
able 
>   to trace both his maternal (mtDNA) and paternal (yDNA) lineages.  
If 
>   your cousin Humberto did it, he would not have your father's yDNA 
but 
>   would have his mtDNA, whereas if your cousin Bobby did it, he 
would 
>   have your father's yDNA but not your father's mtDNA.  However, 
his 
>   father (your uncle) would have the same yDNA and mtDNA as your 
>   father.  I guess you could have to have both of them do the 
test... 
>   Humberto can do the mtDNA and Bobby can do the yDNA.
> 
>   If you join Gary Felix's project you can get a 12-marker yDNA for 
$99 
>   and a low-resolution mtDNA for $129.  You get a discount on the 
yDNA 
>   through Gary's project but not for the mtDNA (because his is a 
yDNA-
>   based project only)...
> 
>   Maybe we need to start up a Mexico mtDNA project!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Margarita Vallazza 
<TeaCozyGran@k...> 
>   wrote:
>   >
>   > Well, as I've said before, I can't do this test at all because 
me 

First I'd like to thank everyone who has sent me information and
suggestions for my research into my Romero/de la Torre surname.
Though I've been to SLC several times, research is slow. I am late
in answering you because of our preparations for our winter trip to
Arizona. All the last minute obligations, home repairs, and doctor
visits are taking longer than anticipated. However, the latest DNA
postings have stopped me in my tracks.

My mother is English/German/Scottish/Irish/etc. but my mtDNA seems to
track pretty close with my Dad, who was born in Jalisco.

16428[A]
16256[T]
16270[T]
16399[G]
249[G]
263[G]	
73[G]
16362[C]

My brother has agreed to have his DNA tested for my research. I have
made neither heads nor tails of my mtDNA information before now. I
guess I will need a class to learn more.

Your kindness in answering my questions and our similar mtDNA results
have made me feel like a real member of this group. I plan on more
active participation when I'm settled in AZ this winter.

Linda Romero

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Serros" <ed@s...> wrote:
> 
> For starters I have 4 grandparents (Serros, Felguerez, Salas,
Suarez) and the following is 
> the DNA data that I have gathered. They all have a "story", which in
some cases made me 
> check a great grandparent line. The results sometimes help when we
get to the genealogy 
> road blocks that we all arrive at.
> 
> Felguerez great grandfather (Y-DNA haplogroup K), Pinedo (mtDNA
haplogroup A), Cerros 
> (Y-DNA haplogroup R1b1c*) Salas (Y-DNA haplogroup R1b), Suarez
(Y-DNA haplogroup 
> Q), Sosa (mtDNA haplogroup C).
> 
> Ed
> 

Ed,

The Americans talk about the "melting pot";  the Canadians speak about
a "mosaic".  The Italians tutti frutti.

What could we call the Mexican mix?  Capirotada?  Sopa de Letras?

Victor

Josie,

I would be happy to share with you my DNA and discuss your results, here or by private 
email. We have a small Hispanic discussion group that deals with DNA results, as well as 
history. If I can not figure out something, they probably can or at least they can say what is 
known. Gary Felix, Mexico DNA project, is the moderator of this informal group. We all 
have varied DNA backgrounds but our families were all from Mexico. For starters you 
should review the information Gary has on his home page, showing results of the 
Mexicans/Mexican-Americans who have submitted DNA samples, http://
members.tripod.com/~GaryFelix/index63.htm.

BTW, Spencer Wells was on the Today show this am and did a great job describing the 
story that was told by the mtDNA  of the news people Katie, Matt, and Al. Spencer Wells is 
in charge of the largest DNA project ever attempted. He has written a number of important 
books on DNA, making it simpler to understand our complex relationships.

For starters I have 4 grandparents (Serros, Felguerez, Salas, Suarez) and the following is 
the DNA data that I have gathered. They all have a "story", which in some cases made me 
check a great grandparent line. The results sometimes help when we get to the genealogy 
road blocks that we all arrive at.

Felguerez great grandfather (Y-DNA haplogroup K), Pinedo (mtDNA haplogroup A), Cerros 
(Y-DNA haplogroup R1b1c*) Salas (Y-DNA haplogroup R1b), Suarez (Y-DNA haplogroup 
Q), Sosa (mtDNA haplogroup C).

Ed

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Josie T. Trevino" <Josiett3@s...> wrote:
>
> Hi to my newest Primo!    
>  
>  Ed........thanks for the warm welcome!  The information I received with the
> test results states that "No high resolution (HVR1+HVR2) matches were
> found."  I sent in my brother's DNA sample for the "Y-DNA25" and the "mtDNA"
> tests and was informed that on the Low Resolution (HVR1) there were 10
> matches.   All this is new to me and I am trying to learn as much as I can
> about DNA......believe me, I need all the help I can get!   :-)  If you want
> to review the details let me know and I will be glad to share with you.  
>

My father and ALL his brothers are dead. My dad's sisters are all alive. Marge:)

On Nov 17, 2005, at 1:52 PM, Arturo Ramos wrote:

Hi Ranchos members,

all these new posts about dna testing jogged my memory about posting
the following offer from Sorensen:

Dear Friend of the Foundation:

The Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation (SMGF) invites you, along
with your friends and family to take advantage of a special offer. 
Starting November 7th, SMGF will be issuing a one-time coupon to
project participants for discounted genetic testing through Relative
Genetics.

Participants will be able to redeem their coupon for either:
- A discounted 26 Marker Y-chromosome Paternal Line Analysis for $95
USD OR
- A discounted mtDNA Maternal Line Analysis for $95 USD

New participants may take advantage of this offer by requesting a kit
from http://smgf.org/request_a_free_kit.html.  New
participants must
submit a four-generation pedigree chart along with a mouthwash sample
to qualify for the coupon.

Past participants may take advantage of this offer by filling out and
submitting the online form found at
http://www.smgf.com/coupon_request.html.

Your participation in this project is helping to build an invaluable
and innovative tool for family history research.

Collections Team
The Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation
2511 S. West Temple
Salt Lake City, Utah 84115 USA
1.800.344.SMGF (7643)

Maria

Hi Ranchos members,

all these new posts about dna testing jogged my memory about posting 
the following offer from Sorensen:

Dear Friend of the Foundation:

The Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation (SMGF) invites you, along 
with your friends and family to take advantage of a special offer.  
Starting November 7th, SMGF will be issuing a one-time coupon to 
project participants for discounted genetic testing through Relative 
Genetics.

Participants will be able to redeem their coupon for either:
- A discounted 26 Marker Y-chromosome Paternal Line Analysis for $95 
USD OR
- A discounted mtDNA Maternal Line Analysis for $95 USD

New participants may take advantage of this offer by requesting a kit 
from http://smgf.org/request_a_free_kit.html.  New participants must 
submit a four-generation pedigree chart along with a mouthwash sample 
to qualify for the coupon.

Past participants may take advantage of this offer by filling out and 
submitting the online form found at 
http://www.smgf.com/coupon_request.html.

Your participation in this project is helping to build an invaluable 
and innovative tool for family history research.

Collections Team
The Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation
2511 S. West Temple
Salt Lake City, Utah 84115 USA
1.800.344.SMGF (7643)

Maria

Ed:

Have you seen the census transcription we have done for Mezquitic?  
There are lots of "Yndio" Pinedos in Mezquitic and nearby Nostic in 
that census.  You can access the file in the Ranchos2 files section 
in a folder called ZZ_Colotlan Census project.  Mezquitic is in the 
pp. 115-124 file.

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Serros" <ed@s...> wrote:
>
> Arturo,
> 
> Interesting that you should mention Bolaños silver mines in 
reference to your mtDNA and 
> our ancestors. My family's mtDNA is likely from that greater 
Bolaños mining area also. My 
> grandmother, born in Valparaiso, Zacatecas, was the illegitimate 
child of a hacendado 
> (Felguerez) and one of the servants (Pinedo). The Felguerez were 
originally in Mesquitic, 
> Jalisco and I believe were involved in the Bolaños mines not far 
away; it was there in 
> Mesquitic and later in Valparaiso, where they made their money 
after coming from 
> Asturias, Spain ~1790. Using the Mormon microfilms, I have found 
Pinedos in all these 
> mining towns. Lots of Villarreals also.
> 
> You are correct, however, that there was much importing of labor 
from different areas to 
> work the mines.
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Arturo Ramos" <arturo.ramos2@v...> 
> >
> > Victor, Josie, Linda, et al.
> > 
> > I too am a haplogroup A with the following mutations:
> > 
> > 16111T
> > 16223T
> > 16290T
> > 16319A
> > 16362C
> > 16390A
> > 
> > I have traced my strictly maternal line to a Josefa Magallanes 
born 
> > circa 1775 in the Bolanos/Chimaltitan area... most likely 
Tepecano 
> > (Southern Tepehuan) but who knows... by that time the Spanish 
were 
> > really pushing up the production of the mine in Bolanos and 
brought 
> > in a lot of other labor to the area.
> > 
> > --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "v.h.villarreal" 
<raices_regias@y...> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Josie & Linda,
> > > 
> > > We share the same haplogroup A.  Although we're not an exact 
match 
> > we
> > > do match on some numbers.  Since we're dealing here with 
> > mitochondrial
> > > DNA, in contrast to Y chromosome DNA, it means that our female 
> > common
> > > ancestor lived thousands of years ago, in prehistorical times.

Margarita:

Is your father still living?  If he did the test, you would be able 
to trace both his maternal (mtDNA) and paternal (yDNA) lineages.  If 
your cousin Humberto did it, he would not have your father's yDNA but 
would have his mtDNA, whereas if your cousin Bobby did it, he would 
have your father's yDNA but not your father's mtDNA.  However, his 
father (your uncle) would have the same yDNA and mtDNA as your 
father.  I guess you could have to have both of them do the test... 
Humberto can do the mtDNA and Bobby can do the yDNA.

If you join Gary Felix's project you can get a 12-marker yDNA for $99 
and a low-resolution mtDNA for $129.  You get a discount on the yDNA 
through Gary's project but not for the mtDNA (because his is a yDNA-
based project only)...

Maybe we need to start up a Mexico mtDNA project!





--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Margarita Vallazza <TeaCozyGran@k...> 
wrote:
>
> Well, as I've said before, I can't do this test at all because me 
mum  
> wasn't Hispanic.  If I have one of my male cousins do this, would I 
get  
> some usable answers if his mother is my aunt or his father my 
uncle?   
> In other words, if my cousin Humberto did it, his mother is my 
father's  
> sister or if my cousin Bobby did it, his dad was my dad's brother,  
> which would be the better candidate?  Marge V:)
> 
> On Nov 17, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Edward Serros wrote:
> 
> > Josie,
> >
> >  I guess we shouldn't be surprised that some of us are related 
since  
> > we are studying our
> >  ancestors that came from the same area. Today I checked my 
mtDNA  
> > results which I
> >  haven't done for awhile and you are an exact match at a low  
> > resolution level to my
> >  paternal grandmother, Maria Felguerez (via Cecilia Isordia).  I 
did  
> > not realize who you
> >  were.
> >
> >  Did you do the HVR1 and HVR2 mtDNA tests? If you did not do the 
HVR2  
> > and you have
> >  extra money lying around, I would be interested to see if we 
are  
> > related at an even closer
> >  (high resolution) level.
> >
> >  Welcome to the tribe. Now I have to look up all the material you 
have  
> > in the Ranchos
> >  database. My grandmother's data is below.
> >
> >  Even though I said that we shouldn't be surprised, I am. Amazing.
> >
> >  Abrazos,
> >

Arturo,

Interesting that you should mention Bolaños silver mines in reference to your mtDNA and 
our ancestors. My family's mtDNA is likely from that greater Bolaños mining area also. My 
grandmother, born in Valparaiso, Zacatecas, was the illegitimate child of a hacendado 
(Felguerez) and one of the servants (Pinedo). The Felguerez were originally in Mesquitic, 
Jalisco and I believe were involved in the Bolaños mines not far away; it was there in 
Mesquitic and later in Valparaiso, where they made their money after coming from 
Asturias, Spain ~1790. Using the Mormon microfilms, I have found Pinedos in all these 
mining towns. Lots of Villarreals also.

You are correct, however, that there was much importing of labor from different areas to 
work the mines.

Ed


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Arturo Ramos" <arturo.ramos2@v...> 
>
> Victor, Josie, Linda, et al.
> 
> I too am a haplogroup A with the following mutations:
> 
> 16111T
> 16223T
> 16290T
> 16319A
> 16362C
> 16390A
> 
> I have traced my strictly maternal line to a Josefa Magallanes born 
> circa 1775 in the Bolanos/Chimaltitan area... most likely Tepecano 
> (Southern Tepehuan) but who knows... by that time the Spanish were 
> really pushing up the production of the mine in Bolanos and brought 
> in a lot of other labor to the area.
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "v.h.villarreal" <raices_regias@y...> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Josie & Linda,
> > 
> > We share the same haplogroup A.  Although we're not an exact match 
> we
> > do match on some numbers.  Since we're dealing here with 
> mitochondrial
> > DNA, in contrast to Y chromosome DNA, it means that our female 
> common
> > ancestor lived thousands of years ago, in prehistorical times.
> > 
> > Mitochondrial DNA is best suited to determine what is called "Deep
> > Ancestry" of our maternal lineage.  We definitely share the same
> > Native American roots in the distant past.
> > 
> > Warm Regards,
> > 
> > Victor
> > 
> > 
> > --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Josie T. Trevino" <Josiett3@s...> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Message: 8       Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 03:55:34 -000        From:
> > "Erlinda
> > > Castanon-Long" <longsjourney@y...>
> > > 
> > > Subject: Re: Haplogroup A ancestor

Margarita, 

See http://www.familytreedna.com/description.html#mtDNA for details on prices. You 
used to get it cheaper if you joined Gary Felix's Mexico DNA project, http://
members.tripod.com/~GaryFelix/index63.htm, but I think they are about the same now. ~
$129 for low resolution mtDNA, $189 for high resolution.

Ed

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Margarita Vallazza <TeaCozyGran@k...> wrote:
>
> BTW, how much does this cost?  I'll pay for my primo, whichever one  
> decides to do it.  Marge V.:)
> 
> On Nov 17, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Edward Serros wrote:
> 
> > Josie,
> >
> >  I guess we shouldn't be surprised that some of us are related since  
> > we are studying our
> >  ancestors that came from the same area. Today I checked my mtDNA  
> > results which I
> >  haven't done for awhile and you are an exact match at a low  
> > resolution level to my
> >  paternal grandmother, Maria Felguerez (via Cecilia Isordia).  I did  
> > not realize who you
> >  were.
> >
> >  Did you do the HVR1 and HVR2 mtDNA tests? If you did not do the HVR2  
> > and you have
> >  extra money lying around, I would be interested to see if we are  
> > related at an even closer
> >  (high resolution) level.
> >
> >  Welcome to the tribe. Now I have to look up all the material you have  
> > in the Ranchos
> >  database. My grandmother's data is below.
> >
> >  Even though I said that we shouldn't be surprised, I am. Amazing.
> >
> >  Abrazos,
> >
> >  Ed
> >
> >  HVR1 Haplogroup A
> >  HVR1 differences
> >  from CRS
> >  16223T
> >       
> >  16290T
> >       
> >  16319A
> >       
> >  16362C
> >
> >  HVR2 differences
> >  from CRS
> >  64T
> >       
> >  73G
> >       
> >  146C
> >       
> >  153G
> >       
> >  182T
> >       
> >  235G
> >       
> >  263G

According to a series on the Discovery Channel on
early man that I saw a couple of months ago, we all
came from the same grandparents over 200,000
generations ago.

But seriously, I believe many of us are related since
most of us came from a mixture of common ancestors
that settled in the central plains of Mexico.  

Alberto Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California

--- Margarita Vallazza <TeaCozyGran@...> wrote:

> BTW, how much does this cost?  I'll pay for my
> primo, whichever one  
> decides to do it.  Marge V.:)
> 
> On Nov 17, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Edward Serros wrote:
> 
> > Josie,
> >
> >  I guess we shouldn't be surprised that some of us
> are related since  
> > we are studying our
> >  ancestors that came from the same area. Today I
> checked my mtDNA  
> > results which I
> >  haven't done for awhile and you are an exact
> match at a low  
> > resolution level to my
> >  paternal grandmother, Maria Felguerez (via
> Cecilia Isordia).  I did  
> > not realize who you
> >  were.
> >
> >  Did you do the HVR1 and HVR2 mtDNA tests? If you
> did not do the HVR2  
> > and you have
> >  extra money lying around, I would be interested
> to see if we are  
> > related at an even closer
> >  (high resolution) level.
> >
> >  Welcome to the tribe. Now I have to look up all
> the material you have  
> > in the Ranchos
> >  database. My grandmother's data is below.
> >
> >  Even though I said that we shouldn't be
> surprised, I am. Amazing.
> >
> >  Abrazos,
> >
> >  Ed
> >
> >  HVR1 Haplogroup A
> >  HVR1 differences
> >  from CRS
> >  16223T
> >       
> >  16290T
> >       
> >  16319A
> >       
> >  16362C
> >
> >  HVR2 differences
> >  from CRS
> >  64T
> >       
> >  73G
> >       
> >  146C
> >       
> >  153G
> >       
> >  182T
> >       
> >  235G
> >       
> >  263G

BTW, how much does this cost? I'll pay for my primo, whichever one decides to do it. Marge V.:)



On Nov 17, 2005, at 10:35 AM, Edward Serros wrote: