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Joseph,

What "casetas" are you most interested in?  

There is a chance that the information might be available or 
requested through Telmex.

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
> thanks much for this information. I'm hoping to find out things 
like the 
> phone numbers to the "cassetas" in the ranchos out in the country. 
I 
> would very much like to find a source of phone books. I thought a 
Social 
> organization of some sort might be able to help me either by 
mailing me 
> a phone book or photocopying pages of their phone book for the 
surnames 
> I need. I'd prefer to purchase the whole phone book but have 
understood 
> they are not available even for purchase unless you live in the 
> community. I also thought that if there are books like the ones you 
> mention these organizations/historical-genealogical societies would 
be 
> the best ones to know about them. 

thanks much for this information. I'm hoping to find out things like the
phone numbers to the "cassetas" in the ranchos out in the country. I
would very much like to find a source of phone books. I thought a Social
organization of some sort might be able to help me either by mailing me
a phone book or photocopying pages of their phone book for the surnames
I need. I'd prefer to purchase the whole phone book but have understood
they are not available even for purchase unless you live in the
community. I also thought that if there are books like the ones you
mention these organizations/historical-genealogical societies would be
the best ones to know about them. I guess if we each wrote a letter to
the town chronicler of our specific area in Jalisco, Zacatecas, and
Aguascalientes and then shared that information with the group we could
make the groups resources rich with information. . .both for us and for
those that are yet to join.

Thank You Victor for your participation and interest in the group,

joseph

ps: I'm very very interested if Don Esteban Valdez' sister is the
chronicler for Colotlan. I have strong roots from there and that is very
close to Santa Maria de los Angeles which is very close to the Epicenter
of my genealogical universe: Ranchos de Animas, Jalisco. thanks

Hey Victor,

The books you mention are actually the ones I have.  Sorry, I didn't 
know the names but I recognize them.

The three books I currently have are:
- Los Valdes de Totatiche
     {I descend from the Valdes family, Joseph Leandro Valdez Lopez 
and Maria Josepha Grano Covarrubias}
- Estirpe Sacerdotal Campos-Jara
     {I descend from the Campos family, Pedro Leon Gaeta Sierra and 
Maria de la Luz Campos Huerta.}
- El Sacerdocio Ministerial - Singular Don a la Parroquia de Totatiche
     {I descend from the Grano family, through the same line from 
above Joseph Leandro Valdez Lopez and Maria Josepha Grano Covarrubias}

The areas I am researching are:
Totatiche and Colotlan in Jalisco
Momax, Tlaltenango, Atolinga, Tepechitlan in Zacatecas

Some of the surnames I am researching are:
Cardenas, Carreon (Carrion), Gaeta, Godina, Huerta, Huizar, Luna, 
Miramontes, Perez, Raigosa (Raygoza), Avila, Campos, Castaneda, Correa
(s), Covarrubias, Grano, Lopez, Marques (Marques De Los Olivos), 
Pinedo, Robles, Romero, Rosales, Sanchez, Sandoval, Serrano, Sierra, 
Valdez, Valenzuela 

Take a look in the file section for details.

- Angie Godina


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "vela_este" <vela_este@y...> wrote:
> 
> Hi Angie,
> 
> On my visit to Totatiche last summer I also bought a copy of 
the "Los 
> Valdez" and "Los Jara" books by Don Esteban Valdez.  
> 
> Besides the books you mention, I know of a couple more, which I 
also 
> bought:  "Historia de Totatiche" and "Historia de Totatiche II".  
> I obtained also the following smaller works:
> 
> Un Sacristán en Monterrey - Crónicas
> Estirpe Sacerdotal Campos-Jara
> El Sacerdocio Ministerial - Singular Don a la Parroquia de Totatiche
> 
> Of his latest book I still don't know, because last July he said it 
> was still a work in progress and he was only at the start of that 
> project.  He did mentioned that it would be mostly about the 
> genealogy of several families from Totatiche.  I'm going to try to 
> find out if he has any other books and I'll let you know when I do.
> 
> It is good for me to know that we share a common interest in that 
> area of Jalisco.  I'll let you know when I upload some of my 
> ancestors so you can check if you see familiar names/surnames.
> 
> Victor

Sorry,  I meant to say that Maria Eduviges Gonzales
Flores is Felipe and Lucia's daughter, NOT Lucia's
sister.  My Ggrandfather is not listed however, Andres
Gonsalez Flores, Maria Eduviges' sibling.  Sorry for
the confusion.


Dora


--- dora gomez <golcala01@...> wrote:

> Joseph,
> 
> I have seen part of this file.  He has my
> gggrandfather and gggrandmothe listed: Felipe
> Gonzales
> and Lucia Flores, but that is where it ends. 
> Lucia's
> sister is listed Maria Eduviges Flores and her
> husband
> and a few descendants.  I feel that some of the
> dates
> on the listed are incorrect also.  I have emailed
> this
> gentleman and he has responded to me, but I am still
> in the process of sending him some information so he
> may respond to my inquiries.
> 
> Felipe and Lucia were from Hacienda El Mezquite,
> Fresnillo de Gonzalez Echeverria, Zacatecas.
> 
> Dora
> 
> P.s. My husband has submitted his DNA and I am
> awaiting anxiously to see the results.  
> --- Joseph Puentes <makas@...> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I just found something that is probably old news
> for
> > most of you. I was 
> > looking around the Pedigree Resource File (PRF)
> and
> > found this person:
> > 
> > Submitter:
> > 
> > 	Benicio Samuel Sanchez GARCIA
> > Ramon Lopez Velarde 729 Contry La Silla Guadalupe,
> > Nuevo Leon, Mexico 
> > 67173 		
> > 	
> > 	
> > 	
> > 	
> > 	
> > 
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Submission Search:  	35342-0506104220903 
> >
>
<http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/prf/search_prf.asp?submission_number=35342%2D0506104220903&regionfriendly=&region=%2D1&juris1=&juris2=&juris3=&juris4=&juris1friendly=&juris2friendly=&juris3friendly=&juris4friendly=&batch_search=true&clear_form=true>
> > 
> > 
> > 	URL:  	
> > 

Joseph,

I have seen part of this file.  He has my
gggrandfather and gggrandmothe listed: Felipe Gonzales
and Lucia Flores, but that is where it ends.  Lucia's
sister is listed Maria Eduviges Flores and her husband
and a few descendants.  I feel that some of the dates
on the listed are incorrect also.  I have emailed this
gentleman and he has responded to me, but I am still
in the process of sending him some information so he
may respond to my inquiries.

Felipe and Lucia were from Hacienda El Mezquite,
Fresnillo de Gonzalez Echeverria, Zacatecas.

Dora

P.s. My husband has submitted his DNA and I am
awaiting anxiously to see the results.  
--- Joseph Puentes <makas@...> wrote:

> 
> I just found something that is probably old news for
> most of you. I was 
> looking around the Pedigree Resource File (PRF) and
> found this person:
> 
> Submitter:
> 
> 	Benicio Samuel Sanchez GARCIA
> Ramon Lopez Velarde 729 Contry La Silla Guadalupe,
> Nuevo Leon, Mexico 
> 67173 		
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Submission Search:  	35342-0506104220903 
>
<http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/prf/search_prf.asp?submission_number=35342%2D0506104220903&regionfriendly=&region=%2D1&juris1=&juris2=&juris3=&juris4=&juris1friendly=&juris2friendly=&juris3friendly=&juris4friendly=&batch_search=true&clear_form=true>
> 
> 
> 	URL:  	
> 
> 	CD-ROM:  	Pedigree Resource File - Compact Disc #88
> 
> 	CD-ROM Features:  	Pedigree View, Family View,
> Individual View, 
> Reports, Downloadable GEDCOM files, Notes and
> Sources.
> 	Order Pedigree Resource File CD-ROMS 
>

I just added the bookmarks to "Pueblos on the Web" (only the ones 
that weren't there of course)

Hadn't realized that you had that list.  Sorry.  You may delete my 
previous post if you wish.


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
> great. if you don't mind and only if you have time can you put them 
in 
> the folder in the "links" area called: "Pueblos on the Web" started 
by 
> S. Apodaca:
> 
> put them in their appropriate folder:
> 
> 

Hi Angie,

On my visit to Totatiche last summer I also bought a copy of the "Los 
Valdez" and "Los Jara" books by Don Esteban Valdez.  

Besides the books you mention, I know of a couple more, which I also 
bought:  "Historia de Totatiche" and "Historia de Totatiche II".  
I obtained also the following smaller works:

Un Sacristán en Monterrey - Crónicas
Estirpe Sacerdotal Campos-Jara
El Sacerdocio Ministerial - Singular Don a la Parroquia de Totatiche

Of his latest book I still don't know, because last July he said it 
was still a work in progress and he was only at the start of that 
project.  He did mentioned that it would be mostly about the 
genealogy of several families from Totatiche.  I'm going to try to 
find out if he has any other books and I'll let you know when I do.

It is good for me to know that we share a common interest in that 
area of Jalisco.  I'll let you know when I upload some of my 
ancestors so you can check if you see familiar names/surnames.

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "aajay1073" <aajay1073@y...> wrote:
> 
> Victor,
> 
> I have a copy of the Valdez book.  My great-grandparents are in 
it.  
> But their line stops with them.  I guess he doesn't know any of 
their 
> descendants.  I also have a book on the Campos-Jara family.  My 
> family descends from this same Campos family, but not the Jara 
> family.  I have a third book written by Esteban Valdes Salazar on 
the 
> Grano family that again, my family descends from.  I have been 
> curious what other books he has written.  Would you happen to have 
a 
> list?  I wonder where I could get a list of book titles?
> 
> I believe his sister is in Momax, Zacatecas which is very close to 
> Totatiche, Jalisco.  I think she has written several books about 
> Momax.
> 
> Thanks,
> Angie
> 

Victor,

I have a copy of the Valdez book.  My great-grandparents are in it.  
But their line stops with them.  I guess he doesn't know any of their 
descendants.  I also have a book on the Campos-Jara family.  My 
family descends from this same Campos family, but not the Jara 
family.  I have a third book written by Esteban Valdes Salazar on the 
Grano family that again, my family descends from.  I have been 
curious what other books he has written.  Would you happen to have a 
list?  I wonder where I could get a list of book titles?

I believe his sister is in Momax, Zacatecas which is very close to 
Totatiche, Jalisco.  I think she has written several books about 
Momax.

Thanks,
Angie


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "vela_este" <vela_este@y...> wrote:
> 
> Hi Joseph,
> 
> Not genealogical societies in the strict sense, but I understand 
that most of the cronistas locales or "town chroniclers" have an 
national association of their own that includes all of México.
> 
> Last summer I made a trip with a brother to Totatiche and Villa 
Guerrero, Jalisco, and we met Don Esteban Valdez, the chronicler of 
Totatiche.  He has a very good Valdez genealogy book and I understand 
he's currently working on a new book that will include other local 
surnames.  He also mentioned something about this chronicler 
association, in fact he said that one of her sisters was also a 
chronicler but in a nearby town, not sure if he said Colotlán.
> 
> Anyway, I'm going to try to write Don Esteban a few lines and ask 
him if he knows about genealogical societies in Jalisco and nearby 
states.
> 
> Victor
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
> > 
> > Is anyone aware of Genealogy and/or Social Societies in Mexico? 
In 
> > particular for the states of Jalisco, Zacatecas, Aguascalientes 
and 
> > Chihuahua?
> > 
> ...

Some links of interest:

Totatiche                 http://www.totatichejalisco.com
Totatiche                 http://www.totatiche.com
Tlaltenango               http://www.tlaltenango.com
Temastian                 http://www.temastian.com
Tepechitlán               http://www.tepechitlan.com
San Martín de Bolaños     http://www.sanmartinjalisco.com
Juchipila                 http://www.juchipila.com
Villa Guerrero            http://www.villaguerrero.com
Tomatlán                  http://www.tomatlan.com
El Refugio                http://www.refugianos.com
Huejucar                  http://www.huejucar.net
Monte Escobedo            http://monteescobedo.grupozacatecas.com
Atolinga                  http://www.atolinga.com

If I find some more I'll post them.  Do you have any others?

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
> >
> Well I'm going to be brief and then refer you to Gary Felix: 
> http://members.tripod.com/~GaryFelix/index63.htm also within this group 
> Angel Cervantes is very capable of talking circles around me.
> 
> What I meant was that I found inidications (markers) that seem to 
> indicate multinational ethnicity:
.....

Thanks for explaining!  

What about mtDNA?  Did you also got your maternal HG?

I plan on doing the 25 YDNA and the mtDNA.  I'm pretty sure I'll get European and Amerindian respectively.  The question is which ones!

Victor

Just Wondering:

is there a list of surnames that were "assigned" to the Indios as they
were assimiliated into mainstream Catholicism? I mean I know that some
surnames that exist today find their origin in that they were first
"assigned" to Indios as they came into the church AND others received
common Spanish Surnames. But those that received the common surnames is
there any indication as to if all and every name was eligible for an
Indio to receive? or were there certain names that Indios would
absolutely never receive?

thanks,

joseph

a member of the GEN-HISPANIC-L@... group wants to know if we
have any Vigils in the group. Well are there any that would like to come
forward?

thanks,

joseph

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
> 
> Amazing things continue to happen. . .its the new year and I just got 
> back from a most remarkable weekend in Atlanta. . .its amazing how even 
> an abundance of alcohol can't keep me from thinking about genealogy. 
> Seems that every barmaid was a possible cousin once I found out what her 
> historical ethnic roots were and compared them with my recent 
> multinational DNA results. Yes a most remarkable weekend in Atlanta!
> 
> . . .

Multinational DNA results???

Would you mind elaborating a little bit more on this.  I have decided to take a DNA test myself and I'm very interested in your opinions.

Victor

Hi, 

As all of you must surely know, when the time comes to take your research to the field or to simply to locate one of those strange sounding Mexican towns, a good map is an indispensable tool. For those searching for a good online map of a Mexican state, let me share with you the following link to the "Instituto de Estadistica Geografía e Informática" or INEGI for short: http://www.inegi.gob.mx/inegi/default.asp 

First, select the state you're looking for in the upper left combo box. 
Next, click in the label "Información Geográfica" almost at the top and center of the page. 
Finally, on the first section of "Datos Generales" find and click on "Condensado estatal en formato raster" 

Depending on your internet connection speed, downloading these maps to your screen could take several minutes, but the wait is well worth it and it is free. What you get is a map in "pdf" format (You need Acrobat Reader) and the detail on these maps is the best I've seen, even when compared to commercial versions. In fact the maps from the INEGI are the most up to date maps (of México) that I know of. 

The good thing about "raster format" maps is that you can zoom in with very little distortion. Then, when the full map is downloaded to your screen, click on the save icon in the Acrobat plug-in toolbar (the floppy disk symbol) and save it to the folder of your choice in your PC.  (Note: You can't use the browser's own menu bar to save the map because the "Save As" option becomes disabled. )

Below are the direct links to some maps:

Aguascalientes:
http://mapserver.inegi.gob.mx/geografia/espanol/estados/ags/ags.pdf
Jalisco:
http://mapserver.inegi.gob.mx/geografia/espanol/estados/jal/jal.pdf
Zacatecas:
http://mapserver.inegi.gob.mx/geografia/espanol/estados/zac/zac.pdf

Victor

Joseph,

I've already introduced myself to you, but if I may, I would like to post a brief introduction to other members of the Ranchos group.

My name is Victor Villarreal and I'm from Tamaulipas, México.

My paternal surname and ancestry is mostly found in northeast México, particularly Nuevo León, but my maternal surname leads me back to Jalisco, Zacatecas and even Aguascalientes.

My mother's surnames are Villagrana and Martel, but in tracing back these two surnames through the IGI so far I've found also the following surnames: 

Pinedo, Colunga , Del Real, Serrano, Arana, Alvarado, Marquez, Lopez, Perez, Rosales, Sanchez, Hurtado, Morillo, Sandoval, Tovar, Balbuena and Raygosa.

Geographically, the most significant places or rather starting places are Totatiche and Villa Guerrero in Jalisco, and Monte Escobedo in Zacatecas,  but other places (in no particular order) that are mentioned in some of the parish documents are el Salitre, el Salto, el Terrerito, Mezquitic Bolaños, Ojo Caliente, Rancho de Conchas, Rancho Viejo, San Juan de los Lagos, San Luis Colotlán, San Martín de Bolaños, Simentera Totatichi, Tepetongo, Tlaltenango de Sanchez Román and Unión de San Antonio.

I will later prepare a document or documents with some of the genealogical lines for the surnames above and hopefully some of you will recognize someone from your own genealogical trees.  I hope to be able to colaborate with you on some of our common genealogical roots.

Best regards to all!

Victor Villarreal