Dr.mt

Aguascalientes Matrimonial Investigations - new installment

Published by gpf13 –
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Genealogy Research

I have just uploaded an index to Aguascalientes Matrimonial Investigation films 299573-299575. The link is http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18014

Comments

Published by superhorrible – Sat, 2016-01-16 02:14 | Permalink

Comment

George,

Thank you so much for sharing the files from Aguascalientes. They will help me a lot in my search. Thank you again for a great present

Susana Leniski

Published by sarod77 – Sun, 2015-12-27 20:05 | Permalink

Comment

Thank you for the assist George! My research led me to a Diego Delgado who wants to marry Maria Carrillo. I was about to go searching for records in Aguascalientes, and dreaded those mixed up records. Then I remembered your noticed and used the pdf lists to locate image 29 in Vol. 1715-18 years. It turns out Diego is the widower of Nicolasa Lopes de Lisaldi. They had 12 children according to my records.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-65T9-3K2?cc=1502404&wc=M6Q…

Here is the complexity of his second marriage to Maria Carrillo de Sandi.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DYJG-LM

Maria Carrillo is also known as Maria Estrada.

Problem 1. If Diego(MQMM-KGF in Familysearch.org)was born in 1758 and had children with his second wife up 1728 seems farfetch but possible at 70 years of age. The children I found were born between 1720 to 1728, but they married in 1715.

Problem 2. In addition there are two records that have same

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Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sun, 2015-12-27 10:06 | Permalink

Comment

Thank you so much George. This work of yours helps people break through brick walls. I had spent three decades looking for some of my De la Torre ancestors and was able to finally find them because Claudia had provided a link to their marriage dispensation. It was this link that connected me to the work I had done on Hidalgos genealogy. It was only through that link that that I descend from the Cervantes line. That is also the only line that I have connected step by step to the Boccanegra family in Genoa It is also I believe how I hook up with Luis [Luciano] Lomelin. All my other Lomelin ancestry descends from Carlo Lomelin. It is also this this line gives a clear picture of an ancestor that was Jewish all along while pretending to be a converso all the way to his deathbed. His last words calling out to Adonai I can hear ringing through my ears. This line also connects my lineage to Fez in Morroco Africa. This line also is the only one that connects me to an ancestral

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Published by familias_bajio – Sat, 2015-12-26 22:28 | Permalink

Comment

Many thanks George for this great Christmas present. Your previous indexes have been a great help for which I truly appreciate your time and effort in creating these terrific sources!

Austin Perez

Published by iChristopher – Sun, 2015-12-27 08:08 | Permalink

Comment

George,

This is great news. I can't begin to tell you how much the indexes have helped me. Thank you for all your hard work George.

Chris

cristobal ruis de esparzay antonia de alvarado

Published by GARY –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hola
alguien sabe quienes son los padres de cristobal ruis de esparza
y de antonia de alvarado?
hay algunas publicacines donde mencionan que ls padres de ambos

Comments

Published by PappyRod – Fri, 2013-06-07 06:03 | Permalink

Comment

Sorry, I don't understand everything already written, but I have my 11th great grandparents as Lope Ruiz de Esparza Sr. y Maria de Equinoa (b: abt 1525 Navarra, Spain), parents of (1) Francisco Ruiz de Exparza and (2)Lope Ruiz de Esparza Jr.(b:1659 Mexico City, M: 1594 Ana Francisca Gabay de Montezuma, parents of Bernardo (b:1608) and Cristobal (b: 1616).

See the link for more detailed document:

http://s979.photobucket.com/user/PappyRod/media/AnaFranciscaGabaydeMoct…

Hopefully, this is correct information and helpful.
Saludos,
Roy

Comment

Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Maria de Equinoa are my 10 great-grandparents. The
thread has mainly been about proving who the parents of Cristóbal Ruiz de
Esparza and Antonia de Alvarado were. I had already provided the proof of
the parents of Cristóbal Ruiz de Esparza. The parents of Bernardo Ruiz de
Esparza weren't in question because that was proven by Bill Figueroa in his
post at http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/15316. So what he is missing
is the proof of the parents of Antonia de Alvarado. I found the will of
Cristóbal Ruiz de Esparza, husband of Antonia de Alvarado, but it doesn't
mention her parents. Therefore a dispensa needs to be found that mentions
her parents.

Armando

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 8:03 AM, wrote:

> Sorry, I don't understand everything already written, but I have my 11th
> great grandparents as Lope Ruiz de Esparza Sr. y Maria de Equinoa (b: abt
> 1525 Navarra, Spain), parents of (1) Francisco Ruiz de Exparza and (2)Lope
> Ruiz de Esparza Jr.(b:1659 Mexico

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Armando and Roy,
There is several pieces of evidence that suggest that the parents of Antonia Alvarado (often named as Antonia Lopez de Alvarado, e.g., marriage of her daughter Gertrudis Ruiz de Esparza to Eugenio Martinez Calvillo) were Luis de Alvarado and Beatriz Lopez de Elizalde (Lizalde). Regarding the funeral documents you refer, one clearly corresponds to Christobal Ruiz de Esparza where Antonia Alvarado and son Francisco iare mentionedl the other is for Christobal Salado whose wife was also named Antonia Alvarado. I do not think these two are the same person.

Jaime Alvarado

Published by Armando – Mon, 2013-06-03 20:30 | Permalink

Comment

Hola Edgar,

Vea la siguiente dispensa para el padre de Cristóbal.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18402-105871-89?cc=1874591&w…

"Phelipe Calvillo español hijo legitimo de Eugenio Calvillo difunto y de
Gertrudis Ruiz de Esparza originario y vecino de esta villa como mejor haya
lugar parezco ante Vmd y digo que tengo tratado de contraer matrimonio
según orden de Nuestra Santa Madre Iglesia con Teresa Muñoz de Hermosillo
así mismo española originaria y vecina de esta feligresía hija legitima de
Andrés Muñoz ya difunto y de Lorenza de Tiscareño y por que me hallo con la
dicha Teresa Muñoz de Hermosillo emparentado en cuarto grado de
consanguinidad por ser la dicha Gertrudis Ruiz de Esparza mi madre y la
referida Lorenza de Tiscareño madre de la dicha mi pretensa primas segundas
hijas de dos primos hermanos que los fueron mi abuelo Cristóbal Ruiz de
Esparza y Juan de Tiscareño abuelo de la pretensa y estos dos fueron hijos
de dos hermanos cuales fueron

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Comment

Edgar Olguin Diaz
hola armando
estuve leyendo detalladamente la dispensa
que me pasastes y efectivamente habla de los padres
abuelos y demas 4 generaciones en total
ahora ya se quien son los padres de cristobal
te lo agradezco sinceramente amigo
armando
haces una mencion de un matrimonio de pedro alonso de los inojos
y ana domingues matrimonio 3 mayo 1620 y no en 1632 en sierra pinos.
existe este registro ? 1620 o 1632?
tienes el link?
que tengas un buen dia
saludos
bye

Comment

Hola Edgar,

Escribí un comentario y apunté el enlace de una copia del registro
matrimonial de Pedro Alonso y Ana Domínguez, que efectivamente fue el 3 de
mayo de 1620, en http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/17433?page=5

Saludos,
Armando

2013/6/4

> Edgar Olguin Diaz
> hola armando
> estuve leyendo detalladamente la dispensa
> que me pasastes y efectivamente habla de los padres abuelos y demas 4
> generaciones en total
> ahora ya se quien son los padres de cristobal
> te lo agradezco sinceramente amigo
> armando haces una mencion de un matrimonio de pedro alonso de los inojos
> y ana domingues matrimonio 3 mayo 1620 y no en 1632 en sierra pinos.
> existe este registro ? 1620 o 1632?
> tienes el link?
> que tengas un buen dia saludos bye -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>
> To post, send email to:
> research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
>
> To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Comment

Edgar Olguin Diaz
hola armando
un cordial saludo
gracias por pasarme el enlace
efectivamente es del 3 mayo del año 1620
te lo agradezco mucho
estamos en contacto
saludos
bye

Comment

Edgar Olguin Diaz
hola armando
un cordial saludo
gracias por pasarme el enlace
efectivamente es del 3 mayo del año 1620
te lo agradezco mucho
estamos en contacto
saludos
bye

Published by xavo666 – Mon, 2013-06-03 19:55 | Permalink

Comment

Gary saludos, sería bueno mencionar fechas de ebventos de los personajes que mencionas para ubicar la época y algún lugar en específico.

Published by Armando – Mon, 2013-06-03 20:36 | Permalink

Comment

Javier,

Cristóbal Ruiz de Esparza casó con Antonia de Alvarado el 19 de enero 1662 en Aguascalientes.

Film 299421 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-53074-27?cc=1502404&…

Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza casó con Catalina Lozano el 27 de febrero 1634 en Aguascalientes.

Film 299421 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-52463-2?cc=1502404&w…

Armando

Published by ssales1984 – Mon, 2013-06-03 21:08 | Permalink

Comment

Hola Armando,

Una duda, yo tengo que Leonor Lozano (hija de Christobal Lozano Martinez y de María de Isla) tuvo una hija con Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza en 1635, un año despues de que Catalina Lozano (a quien tengo como hermana de Leonor) se casara con Bernardo Ruiz Esparza.

No he visto la imagen, pero aquí está la referencia:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NK2P-YHL

Ahora me pregunto si Leonor y Catalina eran la misma persona. Alguna idea?

Leonor volvió a casar en 1650 con Bernabe Merino con quien tuvo por lo menos tres hijos.

Muchas gracias!

Sergio Salés

Published by GARY – Wed, 2013-06-05 09:07 | Permalink

Comment

Edgar Olguin Diaz
hola sergio
un cordial saludo
estuve investigando sobre catalina losano y leonor losano
encontre poca informacion no se si ya la tienes
pero queria compartirla es la siguientes:
leonor losano isla y bernabe merino matrimonio 8 diciembre 1650 aguascalientes
ella hija legitima de christobal losano y maria de isla.

Hijos de cristobal losano y maria de isla:
-leonor losano isla bautizada el 22 mayo 1617 aguascalientes
-magdalena losano isla bautizada el 7 septiembre 1619 aguascalientes.

encontre dos defunciones de leonor losano:
- leonor losano fallecio 20 septiembre 1669 aguascalientes soltera es chichimeca
- leonor losano fallecio 13 junio 1670 aguascalientes esposo bernabe merino
no encontre la defuncion de bernabe merino.

hijas de bernabe y leonor losano:
maria merino losano baut 12 nov. 1651 aguascalientes
josepha merino losano baut 12 nov. 1651 aguascalientes
mathiana merino losano baut 16 marzo 1653 aguascalientes.

la pregunta importante: seran hermanas leonor

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Published by ssales1984 – Wed, 2013-06-05 23:10 | Permalink

Comment

Hola Edgar,

Muchísimas gracias por la información. Tenía la mayoría mas no toda.

Yo desciendo de otra hermana de Leonor, llamada Maria de Isla como su madre, también hija de Christóbal Lozano.

Leonor definitivamente existió pues hay varios documentos sobre ella, incluyendo su bautismo, su confirmación y su testamento en Aguascalientes.
Aqui estaá su confirmación, ella están en la novena línea.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11855-61034-96?cc=1410092&…)

Su matrimonio con Bernabé Merino tambien está bien documentado, pues además de su partida de bodas tenemos los bautismos de sus tres hijas. Mas no he buscado la imágen. Si la encontramos podría decirnos si estuvo casada con Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza. Por último, Leonor Lozano efectivamente murió en 1670.

Yo no tenía fecha de defunción de Catalina Losano, pero si ella murió en 1683, eso querría decir que sí son dos personas distintas. Tienes el link para la imágen?

Aquí está la imágen del matrimonio de

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Comment

Edgar Olguin Diaz
hola sergio
aqui te mando el link del matrimonio de bernarde merino y leonor losano
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-52793-93?cc=1502404&…
tambien mencionan a jacinto losano y su esposa juana gonzalez como testigos

la defuncion de catalina losano mujer de bernardo salado esparza
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11773-145553-84?cc=1502404…

en esta misma pagina aparece la defuncion de bernardo salado pero menciona
que era soltero el cual no es el esposo de catalina losano

saludos
estamos en contacto
bye

sergio checa esta publicacion de un testamento de bernardino ruiz de esparza
habla de los padres de catalina losano luego me deja tu opinion
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/15316

Comment

Hola Edgar,

El testamento de Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza es muy interesante, pues sugiere que Catalina no fue hija de Christobal Lozano y de Maria de Isla como pensaba yo, sino de Juan Lozano y de Ysabel de Friaz. Dicha pareja no la conocía yo. Me pregunto si este Juan Lozano estará relacionado con Christobal Lozano? Sé que Mariano González Leal afirmó en "Retoños de España" que Christóbal Lozano era hijo de Juan Lozano y de Inés Martínez Vaca y González, pero me parece que éste Juan de que estamos hablando debe ser más joven.

Busqué en mis archivos y la razón que conecté a Catalina con Christobal Lozano era que él fue testigo en la boda de Catalina.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11824-52463-2?cc=1410092&w…

Por ahora entonces deslindaré a Catalina de la línea de Christobal Lozano.

Según la defunción de Christobal Lozano, hizo testamento. Pero no he podido encontrarlo. Sería una joya, pues murió el 13 de mayo de 1646.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH

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Comment

Edgar Olguin Diaz
hola sergio sales
de nada aqui estamos para ayudarnos
si tengo aalguna novedad algun dato nuevo
te aviso
seguire investigando
estamos en contacto
saludos
que tengas un bonito dia
bye

Comment

Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,

I cant understand all of this thread but the Lozanos are my ancestors and it look like it says that my ancestor Cristobal Martinez Lozano parents are Juan Lozano and Ines Martines and then it looks like it says that another ancestor of mine Catalina Lozano that's married to Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza that her parents are Juan Lozano and Isabel de Frias. i think the thread asks if it knows the relationships between Juan Lozano and Cristobal Martinez Lozano but i cant tell but i wonder if juan Lozano that married Isabel de Frias is the brother of Cristobal Martinez Lozano and the son of the other Juan Lozano that's married to Ines Martinez.

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

According to a document with letters from Jaime Holcombe Isunza, Catalina Lozano cc Bernardo Ruíz de Esparza was a cousin of Ana Martínez Lozano cc Francisco Prieto Gallardo. CC means "casado con" It doesn't have a citation for that specific piece of information so I don't know which document states that relationship. If true, it's possible that the father of Catalina and the father of Ana were brothers which would mean that Juan Lozano cc Isabel de Frias was the son of Juan Lozano cc Inés Martínez. Catalina and Ana were married 6 months apart so they would have been close in age and the fathers of each would likely have been close in age making it all the more plausible that Juan Lozano cc Isabel de Frias was the brother of Cristobal Martinez Lozano and the son of Juan Lozano cc Inés Martínez. Additionally, a Cristobal Lozano was a witness in the marriage of Catalina Lozano. No telling if this was her father's brother but very much a possibility - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1

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Comment

Armando,

Thank you, this is really good information I didn't know any of that about Ana Martinez Lozano. she's also my ancestor, i'll make a note in my records about that. with this new information it defintly seems to me that Juan Lozano and Cristobal Lozano Martinez are probably brothers

Danny C. Alonso

Published by Armando – Fri, 2013-06-07 06:43 | Permalink

Comment

Hola Sergio,

No me había percatado del mensaje que me habías mandado hasta ayer y no encontré tiempo de leer todos de mas mensajes del tema hasta hoy.

Primero, como has de haber leído en http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/15316 los padres de Catalina Lozano fueron Juan Lozano e Isabel de Frías. Eso significa que Catalina no fue hermana de Leonor Lozano.

Segundo, el registro matrimonial de Leonor Lozano del 8 diciembre de 1650, que proporcionó Edgar, dice que Leonor fue doncella (virgen). La carta del dote de Bernabé Merino dice lo mismo. Entonces Leonor no tuvo relaciones, y menos hijos, antes de 1650.

Tercero, hay muchos registros que contienen errores que es lo que seguramente pasó en el bautismo de quien según era una hija de Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza y de Leonor Lozano. Para mi, no hay duda que se equivocó el cura y apuntó mal el nombre de la esposa de Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza.

Saludos,
Armando

Published by ssales1984 – Wed, 2013-06-12 14:07 | Permalink

Comment

Gracias, Armando, agradezco la clarificación. Sé que hay errores en las fuentes documentales, pero es de cuidado hacer inferencias sin otros documentos que aclaren las duda. En este caso, tienes toda la razón y el apoyo documental que aclara la situaci[on pues el hecho de que en su boda con Bernabé Ruiz de Esparze Leonor haya sido "doncella" acalara que no tuvo relaciones antes de eso.

Muchas gracias!

Sergio Salés

Published by GARY – Tue, 2013-06-04 09:00 | Permalink

Comment

Edgar Olguin Diaz
hola xavo
si es cierto sinceramente se me paso
ponerles las fechas es muy importante las fechas
no volvera a pasar
que tengas un buen dia
saludos
estamos en contacto amigo
bye

Theniente Capitan Protector 1727 and Alcalde 1732 of Huejuquilla El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico

Published by MADERA_32 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I am looking at the defunto records in familysearch.org of Huejuquilla El Alto of Jalisco, Mexico years 1720 - 1761. I found a couple of interesting people:

Comments

Sephardic (Spanish) Jews

Published by tennasalas –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

This will be a study of Historical events of the Sephardic (Spanish) Jews who were brought over from Spain to the Americas and Mexico territory to escape Genocide.

Comments

Published by sarge98 – Sun, 2009-11-22 14:49 | Permalink

Comment

My oldest confirmed ancestor on my mother's side, Jose Augustin Narvaez, was of a family of Sephardic Jews. His family's presence in the New World dates back to the early to mid- 1500s and one of his family was tried by the Inquisition in Mexico. I was able to find information about Jose's birth in Aguascalientes from a posting on FamilySearch.com by an LDS member, but have been unable to confirm the information independently. I thought I would find his baptismal/christening history in Nuestros Ranchos film library but was unsuccessful. If he and his family practiced the Jewish faith in the late 1700s (he was born around 1775), that might account for his name not appearing in these records. I don't know if Jewish families practice a ritual similar to the Catholics and, if so, how to locate such records if they exist. If anyone has any additional information on this subject, please respond via this posting or directly to me at michael_dickey@comcast.net. Thanks.

Comment

Michael,

Check out the section titled "The Jewish Influence," on my website located at

http://www.patriciajcorbera.com.

Rufina Bernadetti Silva Mausenbaum is a fountain of information on the subject, as well as the articles written by Prof. Eduardo Mayone Dias.

Pat Silva Corbera

----- Original Message -----
From: "michael dickey"
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 1:49:04 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sephardic Jews

My oldest confirmed ancestor on my mother's side, Jose Augustin Narvaez, was of a family of Sephardic Jews. His family's presence in the New World dates back to the early to mid- 1500s and one of his family was tried by the Inquisition in Mexico. I was able to find information about Jose's birth in Aguascalientes from a posting on FamilySearch.com by an LDS member, but have been unable to confirm the information independently. I thought I would find his baptismal/christening history in Nuestros

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Published by tennasalas – Mon, 2009-11-09 12:05 | Permalink

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Tenna Salas, In this book "The last Exodus" there is a statment about a Conquistador who helped developed the ports from the Rio Panuco to Santa Elana on the Atlantic coast. He aspired to settle the area between Tampico and the mines of Mazapil and Zacatecas; and to extend exploration and settlement across Mexico : form sea to sea" He was thus grated authority to "discover, pacify and settle" a new province to be called the Nuevo Reyno de Leon. The Spanish Inquisition in Mexico accused Carvajal because of his Jewish faith. While he had remained a Catholic publicly, members of his extended family had reverted to Judaism. Among these, the most notable one was his niece, Isabel Rodriquez because of her fervent faith in the God of her ancestors, the Jews. as a result, Carvajal was sented on February 23, 1590, to a six year exile from New Spain (which is Mexico). Before the year was out, while still awaiting execution of the sentence, Carvajal died in the Mexico prison. The primary

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Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Mon, 2009-11-09 18:31 | Permalink

Comment

I remember seeing documentS wherE he was put on trial after his death. His casket was front and center as the y read the charges And confiscated his wealth. He was known as A devout christian who Also kept the sabbath
------Original Message------
From: tennasalas@msn.com
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: tennasalas@msn.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Zacatecas Link
Sent: Nov 9, 2009 11:05 AM

Tenna Salas, In this book "The last Exodus" there is a statment about a Conquistador who helped developed the ports from the Rio Panuco to Santa Elana on the Atlantic coast. He aspired to settle the area between Tampico and the mines of Mazapil and Zacatecas; and to extend exploration and settlement across Mexico : form sea to sea" He was thus grated authority to "discover, pacify and settle" a new province to be called the Nuevo Reyno de Leon. The Spanish Inquisition in Mexico accused

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Published by tennasalas – Mon, 2009-11-09 09:48 | Permalink

Comment

Tenna Salas

I live in Wichita, KS I just came back from Israel this past Saturday, I spent 10 days there It was beautiful, I purchased a book called the last exodus and it speaks of the Sephardic Jews returning back to there original roots. This book was written by Dell F. Sanchez. Dr. Sanchez has been an international speaker in Mexico, Poland, Sweden, Norway, Sapin and all across America. He has traveled to Israel two to three timeas a year since 1996. His last trip was devoted to field observation and personal interviews with Israelis all across Israel. He is the founder of former CEO of Hispanic Community Educational Television, Incorporated known as KHCE TV-23/cable 22. He is the executive producer and host of a 60 miniute Spanish program called, "Liberacion." Both are viewed daily in San Antionio and south and central TX. This is a little bit of who Dr. Sanches is, he mentions in his book that he had decided to watch a movie called Schindler's List. by Steven

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My great grandmother would make comments to my mother and my grandmother that she was of royal blood. While discussing this with one historian and chronologist of Jalisco, he explained that she was probably of Jewish origin and that was the reason she would claim to be of royal blood. He stated that it was popular to believe in the special birth right without actually disclosing the Jewish link.

Has anyone heard of this comment of being of royal blood to imply that they were Jews or of Jewish ancestry?

Rosie Cordova

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2009-11-28 07:15 | Permalink

Comment

A lot of people from los altos of jalisco descenD froM king enrique II and his brotHers fadrique And tello. Their Parents were the king alfonso of castile and his jewish mistress. She was a converso to catholicism.
Many of the 1st. European settlers in los altos de jalisco were already related many times over through these brothers or the hijar and frias clan, or the hurtado de mendoza clan, or the altamirano clan. I say clan but I mean families with multitude connections thRough intermarriage.
And they continued marrying family once in los altos. In my family tree I have 2nd and 3rd cousins marrying with occasionAl 1st cousins.
ThE strange part is that even though there is that jewish connection there have been some in. The family tree that were antisemitic. I know of at least 2 officials of the inquisition in my family tree.
R A Ricci
------Original Message------
From: rcordovamba@aol.com
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos

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Published by mendezdetorres – Sat, 2009-11-28 15:45 | Permalink

Comment

Yes I agree...it is much debated that the altenos (early society) were anti semitic, yet

three semitic descent families were able to intermarry into mainstream alteno socety

The Padilla Davila, Renteria and others. It is confirmed most of the early European settlers

in Los Altos were already related over and over in the book, La Secreta relacion de los

Conquistadores. The Ruiz de Velasco were related to the viceroy Mendoza and (I suspect

descend from the Viceroy Luis de Velasco.

The Hurtado de Mendoza family is the main source of royal blood in Los Altos, I am currently

working (or at least one of my projects) is to study the Hernandez de Arellano family; I already

suspect who don Toribio's parents were.

The de Anda y Altamirano family was another powerful Spanish family. Includes various conquistadores

and is a compound surname, de Anda and Altamirano de Castilla. I was able to trace the Altamirano

de Castilla back to Pedro I 'el Cruel', rey de Castilla. In Mexico

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Published by Edward_Serros – Mon, 2009-11-30 19:52 | Permalink

Comment

Re: "I personally dont think, us altenos 'are' royalty; our ancestors were so we do have the blood. Today were are just descendants of the aristocracy that once (some might argue oligarchy) ruled Mejico."

I am not sure how to take this whole thread. I read it and the only thing that comes to mind is the saying about the potato: the best part is underground. I prefer not being from royalty and thinking that many of us are the best part, and it doesn't really matter what is underground (the good, the bad, and the ugly). We can not chose the wombs we are born in. Having said this, genealogy is a fascinating topic.

Ed

Published by robledo (not verified) – Wed, 2009-12-02 18:15 | Permalink

Comment

I'd like add my two cents worth about " Royal blood". The vast majority of
the "nobles' that settled in Mexico were *hidalgos *or* escuderos*. Hidalgo
was a class of lower nobility given very freely in Spain as there were no
lands attached to it or exemptions expected. Most were descendants of a
titled person who did not inherit the title, an example is every son who was
not the first born. Escudero was give for a military acheivment. To say
these people were *royal *, with the blood of kings and Queens is a stretch.
An excellent picture of what it meant to be a Spanish Hidalgo is found in
the book ; *A Nation of Shepards* by Daniel Lucero. It describes the journey
of Francisco Robledo from Spain to Mexico, then as part of the Onate
expedition to settle Santa Fe around 1600.
If you ask any middle or upper class person in Mexico about their family
origin, most will tell you their grandfather or his father came from Spain.
Then they will tell you that they are of noble birth. Almost

Read full comment ➜

Published by leondetejada (not verified) – Wed, 2009-12-02 19:43 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Eric;

There were exemptions and privileges for the hidalgos, please check the Pleitos de Hidalguía in las Chancillerías, that theme has been largely studied. Hidalgos did not have to pay the taxes that the pecheros did, they had the right of the use of coats of arms, privileges of certain positions in the government: Captains, Mayors, etc.

For a better understanding of what an hidalgo is, I recommend you "Cuadernos de Doctrina Nobiliaria" by Vicente de Cadenas, I am sure you will like it.

What you say also happens in the US and the rest of the world, I have read of many people that believe they are nobility just because some ancestor was a noble in the XIV C.

On the rest of your comment I agree, royal is to belong to a royal lineage.

Finally, if you want to read which families belonged to the titled nobility in México there is "Estudios Genealógicos" by Ortega y Pérez-Gallardo.

Best regards,

Published by robledo (not verified) – Wed, 2009-12-02 23:15 | Permalink

Comment

Thank you for the recommendation, I'll look out for it.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 6:22 PM, wrote:

> Dear Eric;
>
> There were exemptions and privileges for the hidalgos, please check the
> Pleitos de Hidalguía in las Chancillerías, that theme has been largely
> studied. Hidalgos did not have to pay the taxes that the pecheros did, they
> had the right of the use of coats of arms, privileges of certain positions
> in the government: Captains, Mayors, etc.
> For a better understanding of what an hidalgo is, I recommend you
> "Cuadernos de Doctrina Nobiliaria" by Vicente de Cadenas, I am sure you will
> like it.
>
> What you say also happens in the US and the rest of the world, I have read
> of many Smiths that believe they are nobility just because some ancestor was
> a noble in the XIV C.
> On the rest of your comment I agree, royal is to belong to a royal lineage.
>
> Best regards,
>
>

Published by mendezdetorres – Wed, 2009-12-02 22:45 | Permalink

Comment

Yes, I can relate to this, I once asked my tios in Mejico, where their ancestors came from

they said Spain, Portugal and France. Which did prove to be right but they said their grandfather

which in reality it was a distant ancestor but the lineage was right of course.

I think they really just mean they are Spanish Mexican, probably

not necessarily there grandfather was born in Spain. I have noticied

(I lived in Mexico for a year) the more European blood you have

people respect you? Not sure what Im trying to describe. :(

-Daniel

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Published by robledo (not verified) – Thu, 2009-12-03 00:15 | Permalink

Comment

Both of my Mexican families believed they were of Spanish descent. The
Callejas fiercly claimed to be descended from the last Viceroy, Felix Maria
Calleja. My grandmother often told
us how her family in Oaxaca had his uniform as a treasured relic and they
were forced to leave it behind during revolution. Not to be disrespectful, I
never asked how we were related.

As I started collecting the vital records, it became clear it was not true.
My father was dismayed I would spend such energy to disprove his heritage. I
was actually trying to prove it , but

found otherwise. The trail ends in Sola de Vega , Oaxaca with an exposto
child adopted by the local hacendado around 1700. Maybe no Spanish blood at
all. The maternal part,

Zamora, was from Miahuatlan, Oaxaca, and involves a priest who seems to have
changed his mind about a career.

The Robledo's were less concerned with royalty, but much more with the
Castilian origin. My last document for that family listed a Don Jose Maria

Read full comment ➜

Published by Pat_Silva_Corbera – Thu, 2009-12-03 11:15 | Permalink

Comment

Daniel,

Are you saying that your YDNA and your mtDNA is R1b?

My biological brother's son tested out R1b1b2, and my mtDNA test results placed me in the H1 Haplogroup.

I didn't think the R1b applied to mtDNA?

Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy, CA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 12:37:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood

This is cool my R1b (Y-DNA) and my mtDNA is also R1b. Mostly found on western and central

Europe. I think genetics is fascinating!!!!!

-Daniel

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Published by camachofamily – Thu, 2009-12-03 12:24 | Permalink

Comment

Well, in my blood the only "royalty" that runs thru it is that of Crown Royal. Just kiddin, but on a serious matter, I was reading the beginning of this thread as it pertained to Sephardic ancestory and I wanted to comment that my wife's family is from Northern Nuevo Leon and their customs, food, and spanish is oddly different from my parents' family from Zacatecas and SLP. As soon as I finish my geneaology I will begin hers -J. Antonio Camacho

Comment

I found the comments from J. Antonio, Leon, and Eric (see below) very interesting, since in my research from Zacatecas to Santa Fe, New Mexico to Juarez I have found that my ancestors have been marrying into the same families at least since the late 1600s which is as far back as I can get. It had nothing to do with wealth or social position. They were all farmers, whether they owned haciendas or not. A few were officers stationed at presidios.

Starting in New Mexico almost 300 years ago, I can see that my ancestors were much like what J. Antonio describes in Nuevo Leon, where people were isolated, probably had Sephardic ancestry due to their customs, food, and an archaic Spanish that sounds so close to Ladino.

In Zacatecas I found that my father was misled to think that his great-grandfather, known as "el Frances", was not French, but from people who had been in Zacatecas for generations, all described as espanol, not a Frenchman among them. I think this is because the French

Read full comment ➜

Comment

I still have difficulty understanding why people claim french blood just becaause they were white.

Like Don Mariano gonzalez leal said, la gente mejicana es blanca por que sus antepasados eran espanoles.

The Spaniards were also white europeans. I commonly hear in Mexico "he has blue eyes b/c his grandpa

is french"

This doesnt make sense, a Spaniard can have blue eyes too.

espanol is an iffy term.

espanol is like saying American. Usually when people say american they think white.

I tink espanol could have meant any european who assimilated into Spanish society

in Mexico and were white. Becuase imagine a frenchman who immigrated to Mexico

this Grandchildren wuld have married Spanish in Mexico and would have been labeled

espanol just because of his skin, diregarding his french blood.

-Daniel

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Published by mendezdetorres – Thu, 2009-12-03 12:30 | Permalink

Comment

I guess i meant my YDNA!

> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 18:06:38 +0000
> From: PatriciaCorbera@comcast.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
>
> Daniel,
>
> Are you saying that your YDNA and your mtDNA is R1b?
>
> My biological brother's son tested out R1b1b2, and my mtDNA test results placed me in the H1 Haplogroup.
>
> I didn't think the R1b applied to mtDNA?
>
> Pat Silva Corbera
> Tracy, CA
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto"
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 12:37:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
>
>
> This is cool my R1b (Y-DNA) and my mtDNA is also R1b. Mostly found on western and central
>
> Europe. I think genetics is fascinating!!!!!
>
>
> -Daniel
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live Hotmail gives

Read full comment ➜

Published by Pat_Silva_Corbera – Thu, 2009-12-03 13:00 | Permalink

Comment

Thank you Daniel...what is your mtDNA?
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 11:21:40 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood

I guess i meant my YDNA!

> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 18:06:38 +0000
> From: PatriciaCorbera@comcast.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
>
> Daniel,
>
> Are you saying that your YDNA and your mtDNA is R1b?
>
> My biological brother's son tested out R1b1b2, and my mtDNA test results placed me in the H1 Haplogroup.
>
> I didn't think the R1b applied to mtDNA?
>
> Pat Silva Corbera
> Tracy, CA
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto"
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 12:37:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
>
>
> This is cool my R1b (Y-DNA) and my mtDNA

Read full comment ➜

Published by mendezdetorres – Thu, 2009-12-03 19:30 | Permalink

Comment

I also think its H1; Ill need to check it again its in my massive documents and colections of papers!!!!!

I need to come up with a better organization system my closet is full of stuff!!!! :) Which is good!

-Daniel

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Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Thu, 2009-12-03 21:45 | Permalink

Comment

Spain was the first melting pot and a lot of the families that we descend from did have a lot of french blood o r basque blood.
Some of The spanish families we descend from were not white. I have accumulated ample evidence of north african blood in some of the lines from spain. One of the lines was just recently discovered because of access to old family paPers that held family secrets. These papers were in sitting in a library that had not been touched for centuries.
------Original Message------
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
Sent: Dec 3, 2009 6:16 PM

I still have difficulty understanding why people claim french blood just becaause they were white.

Like Don Mariano gonzalez leal said, la gente mejicana es blanca por que sus antepasados eran espanoles.

The Spaniards were also white europeans. I commonly

Read full comment ➜

Published by mendezdetorres – Thu, 2009-12-03 23:15 | Permalink

Comment

I dont doubt some families had some Jewish converso or moorish blood in the south. It also

depends on the area of Spain. Andalucia is a hotspot for Moorish DNA that might have mixed

with some people. We have to be careful about this because this is where the stereotype

that Spaniards are not white because "THEY all mixed with muslims" This stereotype

was used against Spaniards in the early 1900s to say they were not white according to

American standards. Which is ridiculous of course some ought to have moor or jewish blood

but to say all Spaniards, thats iffy. Look at the US half the people they never considered white

are white now, Spaniards, English, German Italians, etc.

-Daniel

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Comment

Daniel,

I have found that many Americans of Northern European descent (England, Ireland, Scotland, Scandinavia, Germany, etc) still don't consider those of Southern European descent (Spain, France, Portugal) as "white".

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood

I dont doubt some families had some Jewish converso or moorish blood in the south. It also

depends on the area of Spain. Andalucia is a hotspot for Moorish DNA that might have mixed

with some people. We have to be careful about this because this is where the stereotype

that Spaniards are not white because "THEY all mixed with muslims" This stereotype

was used against Spaniards in the early 1900s to say they were not white according to

American standards. Which is ridiculous of course some ought to have moor or jewish blood

but to say all

Read full comment ➜

Comment

I know some still dont, the census does though. I think its ironic white basicallymeans white skin. Genetics have proven that English part of their genetic ancestry
came from Iberia (Spain) and arethe closest related tothe spaniards). Then Northern spain is mostly Celtic. I think it just shows how ignorant american societyreally is. -Daniel
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Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Fri, 2009-12-04 18:15 | Permalink

Comment

One of our moorish ancestors is from northern spain. The king of aragon kidnapped him when he defeated his father. He raised as his own and then was allowed to marry into the kings family since he was not a biological son.
Another ancestor of alteno families is the grandson of the 2nd caliph of the almohads. He converted after witnessing a miracle. His children married spaniards and are ancestors of the frias and hijar families
Another ancestor of altenos claimed to be from northern spain but were from north africa with the grandmother being a mulata. In all genealogies that I have seen of this family that are on the internet they continue the lie that they were pure white
I have other true stories.
------Original Message------
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood
Sent: Dec 3, 2009 10:08 PM

I dont doubt some families

Read full comment ➜

Published by mendezdetorres – Fri, 2009-12-04 19:15 | Permalink

Comment

I dont think no one is pure anything, its just a social concept. Like in Los Altos, the average claim

is they are full white, while this might be socially true of course we all came from Africa. The human race

originated in Africa. Socially, if you were white, then you were white, it didnt matter if you

had a great grandpa who was indio. This brings up la limpieza de sangre topic. If a european and

india had a kids (mestizo). If the mestizo married a white then the kid is (Castizo). If the Castizo

married white again then the kid would be 100% white socially wise. (enough too look like a regular

european). This is very difficult social topic to explain! This whole process might have even just be

avoided so they would have to deal with it by marrying inside the family. Going back to your

point of the moorish ancestor. The alteno would still be white, its too distant to even claim as your

culture. Its like me saying Im Polish, though I have an ancestor along time ago, it

Read full comment ➜

Comment

I found this on the US census website

White (Anyone that claims ancestry from the original peoples of Europe)

Thank goodness we dont live in the most igorance of times, I know most of

the people I know do consider southern Europeans, (Portugues, Spanish,

Italians, French, someitmes GErmans and Greeks white now)

I know when part of my family immigrated from Mexico in the late 1800s early

1900s they were marked as white. But around the 1980s they were forced

to label hispanic/latino. Recently in the 90s since hispanic/latino is now just

a choice we went back to white american. Since the definition was clearly

stated: White (Anyone that claims ancestry from the original peoples of Europe).

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Published by Pat_Silva_Corbera – Fri, 2009-12-04 14:30 | Permalink

Comment

Daniel,

Not sure if this is your reply to my question about what haplogroup is your mtDNA, but if it is... are your DNA test results posted online, and if so where?

thank you,
Pat Silva Corbera

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto"
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 6:18:49 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood

I also think its H1; Ill need to check it again its in my massive documents and colections of papers!!!!!

I need to come up with a better organization system my closet is full of stuff!!!! :) Which is good!

-Daniel

Published by oldcar53 – Thu, 2009-12-03 09:30 | Permalink

Comment

Eric,

I read your posting and while reading was continously nodding my head.

I can't tell you how often in talking to people from Mexico, they claim to be of Spanish or French Ancestry, never a mention of their Mexican or native American heritage. I find it sad that we celebrate what we don't know and don't celebrate what we do know, delude ourselves with the wishful thinking rather than with the reality, whatever that reality may be.

Thanks for your postings......I have enjoyed your commentaries and wisdoms.

Alicia,
San Jose, Calif

________________________________
From: eric edgar
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 11:13:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood

Both of my Mexican families believed they were of Spanish descent. The
Callejas fiercly claimed to be descended from the last Viceroy, Felix Maria
Calleja. My grandmother often told
us how her family in Oaxaca had his uniform as a treasured relic and they
were forced to leave it

Read full comment ➜

Published by longsjourney – Thu, 2009-12-03 13:30 | Permalink

Comment

Like Alicia I related to Eric's commentary.  I would personally love to find exactly what tribes we descend from in both my maternal and paternal line but that isn't possible with the loss of their names when they became Christians.  My only option is to pursue the records that are available to me..  I take great pride in every ancestor that helped get me here and would love to learn their tribes if not their real names. 

I did find it interesting that in my paternal grandparents, Epitacio Castanon and Juana Sanchez both said they were Yndios and the records disprove some of that and the DNA for my grandfather said European.  I guess this is one of the amazing things abt reclaiming our true family history and the genealogy we all work so hard to keep correct by working together and sharing records in Nuestrosranchos.  This group helps fill the holes and tell a story of the times and lives of those whos names we have recalled.  We do good work!

Linda in Boulder City

--- On Thu, 12/3

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Linda, I feel sad that we won't ever know what tribe we are from, and I am not talking just about the Indios, since as you know, my espanol Olague grandfather married into the Tinajero family of espanoles who intermarried with the Surianos whose ancestry is riddled with "mulatos", and hardly any indians. What tribes in Africa were they from?

I heard that perhaps many Indians in the states of our area of research (Jalisco, Aguas, Zacatecas) were Tlaxcalans brought from the areas farther south settled earlier? Does anyone know more about this?

Mexico is mostly a land of meztizos, no? I have heard some Mexicans say "soy puro mexicano", but there is no pure mexican race--aren't most of mixed race, whether mulato, or Indian? And if you look hard enough, don't most families who claim pure Spanish ancestry really have a Jew or Indian, or African in their woodpile somewhere? I do recognize that "soy puro mexicano" is a statement of national pride. I can't seem to get that across to

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Published by Rodriguez_de_Frias – Thu, 2009-12-03 15:15 | Permalink

Comment

To me, being a Mexican goes beyond the facts of where I was born, where I
was raised, who my ancestors were or where they were from. It has more to do
with how I was raised, the culture, the traditions and the spiritual
connection with the place I feel I belong to.

The main reason I got into genealogy was to find out how much Mexican I was.
I wanted to know where my Mexican ancestors were from, what their names
were, what they did when they were alive, etc., but what I most wanted to
find out was how much native Mexican blood I had in me, if I had Aztec
ancestors (which later I was sadden to find out that I had almost close to
none, or even none), because to me it is important to know and understand
where I come from, how I am built.

Although I was born in the US, I don't feel that I'm American, I feel that
I'm Mexican. Even after I discovered I had way more Spanish blood than any
other (between 7/8 and 15/16), I don't feel I'm Spanish at all, I still feel
that I'm Mexican. Even

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Beautifully said. Thank you.
-Esperanza

On 12/3/09 1:59 PM, "Rick Rodriguez" wrote:

> To me, being a Mexican goes beyond the facts of where I was born, where I
> was raised, who my ancestors were or where they were from. It has more to do
> with how I was raised, the culture, the traditions and the spiritual
> connection with the place I feel I belong to.
>
> The main reason I got into genealogy was to find out how much Mexican I was.
> I wanted to know where my Mexican ancestors were from, what their names
> were, what they did when they were alive, etc., but what I most wanted to
> find out was how much native Mexican blood I had in me, if I had Aztec
> ancestors (which later I was sadden to find out that I had almost close to
> none, or even none), because to me it is important to know and understand
> where I come from, how I am built.
>
> Although I was born in the US, I don't feel that I'm American, I feel that
> I'm Mexican. Even after I discovered I had way more Spanish

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Well, Rick, I can understand why you feel more Mexican, being that you now live in Mexico, and I don't know if your parents were born in America or Mexico, but my experience is different. Maybe you were raised closer to the culture, but I experienced "culture shock" in Mexico, not knowing proper Castellan, etc.

My mother, born in 1902, was a Piro-Manso-Tewa Indian whose ancestors were from New Mexico, the Lower El Paso Valley, and Juarez since the late 1600s. Her father was born in America, too, in 1878. They did have Spanish ancestors too, and those came up North with Onate in 1598. Maybe some were hidalgos, but all I have learned is that most of the men were officers stationed in presidios from Santa Fe to Parral. Their culture and language is different than that in Mexico, though it was all Mexico once, but it was an outpost for centuries and the people there became a breed all their own, with their own food, customs, language.

I related more to my mother's relations since

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Wow I love your comment Emilie!!!

Its funny, in Mexico its common to hear "oh soy espanol" or "soy frances" etc...but the European Mexicans

hardly ever say there mejicano. Once they come to the US then they start saying "soy mejicano". Its the same

deal in the US, we say oh were Spanish, French or Italian etc....I do identify as Spanish in the US because

my my moms side is more recently Spanish immigrants to Mexico late 1800s. My dad is mostly Portuguese-Mexican.

I think in the US we tend to americanize and the ones that can assimilate, which was common to hear my mom

say shes white and shes born in Mexico. I think people in the US tend to seperate us Spanish speakers into our

own race; where inreality hispanos can be white, black or asian, its not a race. Then it annoys me when they dont

believe I speak Spanish!

I dont think the Aztecas are Mexican in my opinion they would be native american. I think mejicano means a descendant

of the colonist who created Mexico and

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Daniel,

I don't have my husband's trees in a format to send you yet. I only have all his lines in hand-written pedigree charts because I am still in the process of trying to break down some brick walls. As soon as I get it all into my PAF program, I will send you a descendancy report.

Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Being a Mexican

Wow I love your comment Emilie!!!

Its funny, in Mexico its common to hear "oh soy espanol" or "soy frances" etc...but the European Mexicans

hardly ever say there mejicano. Once they come to the US then they start saying "soy mejicano". Its the same

deal in the US, we say oh were Spanish, French or Italian etc....I do identify as Spanish in the US because

my my moms side is more recently Spanish immigrants to Mexico late 1800s. My dad is mostly Portuguese-Mexican.

I think

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Thanks Emilie!!!

Id be glad to help if you need any, Ill have some extra time soon!

-Daniel

Send me your brick walls, I have a huge alteno database! and its still growing.

>From 1500s-1890s.

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Comment

Don't get me wrong Emilie, I'm not saying you're not Mexican or that I'm
more Mexican than you or others, I was just sharing the fact that I'm very
proud to be a Mexican, I apologize if any part of my comment made you feel
uncomfortable.

Some sociologists have come to the conclusion that most Mexicans living in
Mexico lack of an own identity and that this crisis is the cause of many of
our social issues when we compare ourselves to other countries, but that's a
different issue that would take forever to cover. I want to think that I
don't have this problem.

I was born in Los Angeles and I was raised by my parents (both born in
Mexico). I spoke Spanish at home and English everywhere else, this helped me
to learn both languages much easier. We came to live to Mexico when I was
10, and I went back y myself to the US when I was 20. I've lived close to 20
years in Los Angeles and less than that here in Mexico, but I feel my place
is here in Los Altos, it's hard to explain. I just

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Comment

My parents are mexican they identify with a hypehn term

Portuguese Mexican and Spanish Mexican. Just like inthe US

its common to see the hyphenated American term

(ie. Mexican American) it is also seen in Mexico.

-Daniel

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Comment

I'm not so sure about this. In Mexico, hyphen terms are probably used to recent immigrants to Mexico, I assume, but I cannot confirm that. Based on my experience, what you say is not true. I used to live near the California border with Mexicali (lots of Chinese immigrants) and knew some second and third generation "Chinese-Mexicans", as you would call them, but they always refered to themselves as Mexicanos, period. Of course, they were proud of their heritage, but they were Mexicanos. Same thing here in North Carolina. I live in Winston Salem, and there his a big population of Mexican immigrants, primarily from the states of Veracruz and Guerrero. Many of these guys are from Acapulco and the Costa Chica (Cuajinicuilapa and San Nicolas). Many of them could easily pass as African Americans, and guess what, they don't call themselves "Afro-Mexicans", but Mexicanos, just like I do.
 
Personally, I love Mexico, its culture, traditions, language, food, people, etc. I am a Mexicano because I

Read full comment ➜

Comment

America is a continent not a country, so we all in the american continent are amaricans.

Ruben Casillas M.

--- El vie 4-dic-09, Steve Apodaca escribió:

De:: Steve Apodaca
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Being a Mexican
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: viernes 4 de diciembre de 2009, 9:34

I'm not so sure about this. In Mexico, hyphen terms are probably used to recent immigrants to Mexico, I assume, but I cannot confirm that. Based on my experience, what you say is not true. I used to live near the California border with Mexicali (lots of Chinese immigrants) and knew some second and third generation "Chinese-Mexicans", as you would call them, but they always refered to themselves as Mexicanos, period. Of course, they were proud of their heritage, but they were Mexicanos. Same thing here in North Carolina. I live in Winston Salem, and there his a big population of Mexican immigrants, primarily from the states of Veracruz and Guerrero. Many of these guys are from Acapulco and

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Thank you Ruben ..... that has always bothered me. To often "America" and
"The United States" are used interchangeably and we forget that America is a
continent that is home to many different countries not just the US.

-Angelina-
--------------------------------------------------
From: "ruben casillas moreno"
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:52 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Being a Mexican

> America is a continent not a country, so we all in the american continent
> are amaricans.
>
> Ruben Casillas M.
>

Comment

I'm sorry if my post offended some of you. I meant to say that my daughter was born in the United States. I know that American refers to people of the whole continent, but I guess I got used to saying that term since everybody in here refers to US citizens as Americans.
 
In spanish it happens something  similar. When I watch TV from Mexico I hear people referring to US citizens as "Norteamericanos". That term should cover all of North America, not just the United States, and still, lots of people all over the world made American, or Norteamericano a term to refer to US citizens.
 
That reminds me of a story my dad told me. My parents were born in Mexico. One time, they were on vacation in Italy. The tour included travelers from all over Latin America and Spain. A guy from Spain asked my dad where was he from and he said in Spanish "yo soy norteamericano".
The guy stares at my dad and says "From the United States?"
"No, from Mexico" my dad answered.
"Oh, then you are Mexicano"
"Yes

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Hi Steve:

I agree with you 100%. It boggles my mind when I hear people, that should
know better, referring to this country as "America".

A day doesn't go by when I don't hear government officials, including all
the way up to the president, media people, even in the Spanish language
channels, making comments like: He came from ( you pick any country south of
the border) to "America".

It is sad, sad, sad...Perhaps this country should have been named with a
short, quick easy, to pronounce name. "United States of America" takes too
long to pronounce and write.

And by the way, I wonder how many people know that the official name of
Mexico ( with an "X", not a "J" ) is: "Estados Unidos Mexicanos" If you
don't believe me, look at any offical document or currency.

My dos centavos worth

John Gonzalez.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Apodaca"
To:
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 20:59
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Being a Mexican

I'm sorry if my post offended

Read full comment ➜

Published by Jaime_Rendon_H… – Thu, 2009-12-03 21:24 | Permalink

Comment

Jaime Rendon Hernandez

Linda,

According to Gary Felix of the Genealogy of Mexico Hispanic Surname Project Mexico, results from Y DNA Testing are beginning to show common genetic markers of Indigenous peoples who claim they are of the same tribe, but say that they are not related. In other words different Native tribes in Mexico are beginning to distinguish themselves from other tribes by their distinctive Y (male chromosome) genetic markers. Once more Y data is collected there may be a time when we will be able to know from exactly what tribe we descend in Mexico. So do not despair Linda!!
I am not sure, but I think the MTDNA X (female chromosome) is also showing a genetic pattern! DNA testing is good for people who have no paper trail of their ancestry!

Comment

Well then, my heart belongs in the US and in Ireland! :) Marge:)

"So being a Mexican, in my opinion, comes from asking yourself where
your
heart belongs to, where you feel the land calls to your spirit and
claims
its ownership. I found my true calling here in Los Altos de Jalisco,
because
I'm an Alteno, I'm Mexican.

Ricardo Rodriguez Camarena
Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco"

-----Mensaje original-----
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Emilie
Garcia
Enviado el: Thursday, December 03, 2009 3:08 PM
Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal Blood

Linda, I feel sad that we won't ever know what tribe we are from, and
I am
not talking just about the Indios, since as you know, my espanol Olague
grandfather married into the Tinajero family of espanoles who
intermarried
with the Surianos whose ancestry is riddled with "mulatos", and hardly
any
indians. What tribes in Africa

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Comment

I once told an Anglo friend that her Anglo ancestors who lived in Texas pre-1840s were in fact "Mexican" (by nationality); she was blown away becuase she had never thought in those terms...labels dont mean much if anything but society has attributed certain positive and negative aspects with such labels...

> From: teacozygran@kc.rr.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 22:34:40 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Being a Mexican
>
> Well then, my heart belongs in the US and in Ireland! :) Marge:)
>
> "So being a Mexican, in my opinion, comes from asking yourself where
> your
> heart belongs to, where you feel the land calls to your spirit and
> claims
> its ownership. I found my true calling here in Los Altos de Jalisco,
> because
> I'm an Alteno, I'm Mexican.
>
> Ricardo Rodriguez Camarena
> Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco"
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with Messenger straight from your

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Comment

There is a form of this "royal blood" syndrome for native people in Mexico.
My grandmothers oldest sister was from her mother's first marriage. Her
contention was that her family decsended from La Malinche, also known as
Dona Marina, the translator, advisor and mistress of Cortes.

Eric Robledo Edgar
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 8:39 PM, tony cobos wrote:

>
> I once told an Anglo friend that her Anglo ancestors who lived in Texas
> pre-1840s were in fact "Mexican" (by nationality); she was blown away
> becuase she had never thought in those terms...labels dont mean much if
> anything but society has attributed certain positive and negative aspects
> with such labels...
>
> > From: teacozygran@kc.rr.com
> > To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> > Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 22:34:40 -0600
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Being a Mexican
> >
> > Well then, my heart belongs in the US and in Ireland! :) Marge:)
> >
> > "So being a Mexican, in my opinion, comes from asking yourself where
> > your
>

Read full comment ➜

Comment

One good source to find out which Indians from the south (Tlaxcalans,
Purepecha, Mexica, etc.) settled where in Jalisco and Zacatecas is
Peter Gerhard's "North Frontier of New Spain." Gerhard discussed each
province separately and what went on within that jurisdiction,
including settlements of Otomis, Tlaxcalans, Texcocans, Tarascans, etc.

I wrote several stories where I pointed out some of Gerhard's writings.
For example, Sain Alto in northwest Zacatecas was in the territory of
the Zacatecos but was also settled by Tlaxcalans, so people of
indigenous origins from there might be descended from both groups.

Here are the links to my stories:

http://www.houstonculture.org/mexico/states.html

http://www.houstonculture.org/mexico/zacatecas_indig.html

http://www.somosprimos.com/schmal/schmal.htm

Another example:
Near the city of Zacatecas, Mr. Gerhard writes, each Indian group
"lived in its own barrio," and these became pueblos segregated by
nationality and language

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Hello Johnny -
 
Do you know where the HUICHOL indians from Garcia De La Cadena, Zacatecas originate from?
 
Thank you,
 
Rudy

--- On Thu, 12/3/09, johnnypj@aol.com wrote:

From: johnnypj@aol.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Provenance of Indigenous Peoples in Select Cities of Nueva Galicia (circa 1550-1650)
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, December 3, 2009, 2:19 PM

One good source to find out which Indians from the south (Tlaxcalans, Purepecha, Mexica, etc.) settled where in Jalisco and Zacatecas is Peter Gerhard's "North Frontier of New Spain."  Gerhard discussed each province separately and what went on within that jurisdiction, including settlements of Otomis, Tlaxcalans, Texcocans, Tarascans, etc.

I wrote several stories where I pointed out some of Gerhard's writings. For example, Sain Alto in northwest Zacatecas was in the territory of the Zacatecos but was also settled by Tlaxcalans, so people of indigenous origins from there might be descended from both

Read full comment ➜

Comment

I can't tell you their place of origin, but they have been discussed by
a dozen or more publications... It was believed that they were distant
cousins to the Guachichiles and split off from them. That was discussed
in that one book "People of the Peyote." It's quite a fascinating
theory and may very well be true.

Have you heard of it?

John Schmal

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodolfo Flores
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thu, Dec 3, 2009 2:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Provenance of Indigenous Peoples in
Select Cities of Nueva Galicia (circa 1550-1650)

Hello Johnny -
 
Do you know where the HUICHOL indians from Garcia De La Cadena,
Zacatecas originate from?
 
Thank you,
 
Rudy

--- On Thu, 12/3/09, johnnypj@aol.com wrote:

From: johnnypj@aol.com
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Provenance of Indigenous Peoples in Select
Cities of Nueva Galicia (circa 1550-1650)
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, December 3, 2009, 2:19 PM

One good source to

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Rudy, you will probably have no trouble getting a copy of that book (if
you don't already have it). This is something on the web, but I think
the book makes a pretty strong point, a theory of course:

Identification. The Huichol are a Mexican Indian group located in the
states of Jalisco, Nayarit, Zacatecas, and Durango. The name "Huichol"
is the term Spaniards used when referring to this group and is possibly
a corruption of the name for either the Guachichil or the Wizarika.
Some scholars believe the Huichol were originally the desert-dwelling
culture known as the "Guachichil," who, in turn were one of the many
people collectively called "Chichimec." "Wizarika" is the term the
Huichol use to identify themselves. Its meaning is unclear, but
scholars have proposed various interpretations: "the healers," "the
sandal wearers," and "the ones." The Huichol use the term "Tevi,"
meaning one of "the people" when making distinctions between Huichol
and non-Huichol individuals

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Hello Johnny -
 
Thank you so much for the impressive information! Only question I have is what book are you reffering to?
 
Again, my thanks,
 
Rudy

--- On Thu, 12/3/09, johnnypj@aol.com wrote:

From: johnnypj@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Provenance of Indigenous Peoples in Select Cities of Nueva Galicia (circa 1550-1650)
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, December 3, 2009, 2:49 PM

Rudy, you will probably have no trouble getting a copy of that book (if you don't already have it).  This is something on the web, but I think the book makes a pretty strong point, a theory of course:

Identification. The Huichol are a Mexican Indian group located in the states of Jalisco, Nayarit, Zacatecas, and Durango. The name "Huichol" is the term Spaniards used when referring to this group and is possibly a corruption of the name for either the Guachichil or the Wizarika. Some scholars believe the Huichol were originally the desert-dwelling culture known as the

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Thank you Mr. Schmal. I will enjoy reading your articles on this subject. I have read many of your articles and find them so informative.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: johnnypj@aol.com
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 2:19 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Provenance of Indigenous Peoples in Select Cities of Nueva Galicia (circa 1550-1650)

One good source to find out which Indians from the south (Tlaxcalans,
Purepecha, Mexica, etc.) settled where in Jalisco and Zacatecas is
Peter Gerhard's "North Frontier of New Spain." Gerhard discussed each
province separately and what went on within that jurisdiction,
including settlements of Otomis, Tlaxcalans, Texcocans, Tarascans, etc.

I wrote several stories where I pointed out some of Gerhard's writings.
For example, Sain Alto in northwest Zacatecas was in the territory of
the Zacatecos but was also settled by Tlaxcalans, so people of

Read full comment ➜

Published by lunalatina1955 – Thu, 2009-12-03 16:00 | Permalink

Comment

Emilie,

>From what I can recall studying African History in Latin America, it is
widely believed that most of the Africans brought into Central and South
America were initially from Yoruba, which was then a nation east of what is now
known as Benin, however it is difficult to tell, as tribal people were
often separated, as the slave holders didn't want them to be able to
communicate with each other in their native tongue. I seem to recall an isolated
community in Guerrero was discovered where linguists were able to trace their
language to Yoruba. Because of these practices, it is difficult for many
African Americans to trace their ancestry to a specific tribe in Africa. I
do know however that in the latter years, because of a loop hole in Spanish
law that outlawed slavery in 1829, most slaves who arrived into Latin
countries no longer came from the west coast, they came from Angola.

I am one of the few people that has indeed found proof that I have

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Thank you Esperanza. You know, you mentioned something very interesting; you said "I have also read that other indigenous people were brought in various parts of Zacatecas to help with mining, including those from
Michoacan, and other slaves including "chinos" who were from the Philippines".

You know, I am often mistaken for Filipino. I thought it was because of my Pueblo Indian blood that gives me my Asian eyes, since they say that American natives originated in Asia and came through Alaska. Now I am wondering, were some of my father's "indian" ancestors mixed with Filipinos brought to Zacatecas by the Spaniards? Is that where my looks came from and not from my mother's ancestors in New Mexico? I know that the Spaniards' ships brought booty from the Phillipines, but now you tell me they also brought slaves from there.

I am looking at a photo of my father when he was 17. I was born when he was almost 40, so he had changed a lot when I knew him, he got bald, had dentures

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Comment

I had learned this too, like the USA, Mexico is a diversed countries, all types of European, Asian,

Middle Eastern, African, Native Americans all live in Mexico now. It has become one of the most diversed countries

in America.

-Daniel

_________________________________________________________________
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Comment

This occurs specially with middle and upper class mexicans

(usually espanoles) even if they have one ancestor who is

indio they wont claim it because its not enough for them.

It also depends on how were raised too, if its mostly

Spanish culture would we not identify as spanish?

I have found 1 or two indio ancestors from the 1600s

and 1700s. Then theres also the possible Moctezuma/Esparza

connection, one black ancestor and one jewish ancestor.

For me that was 200-300 years ago if not more. Its not close

hence why I dont claim it, but I am aware they are there!

And then theres the dicho my grandpa always says,

mas espanol mas mejicano.

Which is ironic because Mejico is a pluricultural nation.

-Daniel

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.as…

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Published by margeval – Fri, 2016-01-15 23:44 | Permalink

Comment

My father's grand mother's family was descended from the Hurtado de Mendozas, the de Andas and the Altamiranos, and so many noble and royal families. Such a great legacy. We need to share this information with our children. Just sharing, Marge

Published by mendezdetorres – Sat, 2009-11-28 15:45 | Permalink

Comment

Not sure...I could legally and socially say all altenos are hidalgos by birth.
And since all of the altenos intermarried within 100 years everyone was

already related on the meseta, Aguascalientes, parts of Zac , Gto, Mich,

and SLP. Go figure!

Regards,

Daniel

_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::…

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2009-11-28 17:45 | Permalink

Comment

What you said about them all intermarrying the first 100 years is true but what I have found in my research is that many of them had already intermarried many times over the previous 150 years
------Original Message------
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
Sent: Nov 28, 2009 2:36 PM

Yes I agree...it is much debated that the altenos (early society) were anti semitic, yet

three semitic descent families were able to intermarry into mainstream alteno socety

The Padilla Davila, Renteria and others. It is confirmed most of the early European settlers

in Los Altos were already related over and over in the book, La Secreta relacion de los

Conquistadores. The Ruiz de Velasco were related to the viceroy Mendoza and (I suspect

descend from the Viceroy Luis de Velasco.

The Hurtado de Mendoza family is the main source of

Read full comment ➜

Published by mendezdetorres – Sat, 2009-11-28 18:00 | Permalink

Comment

Which 150 years are you talking about? I know even today as we speak altenos still intermarry far close then they did

during the colony. Our gene pool is so small now we all have basically the same DNA and similar charateristics, I have 3rd

cousins that alomst are idential to me!

-Daniel

> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 00:34:16 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
>
> What you said about them all intermarrying the first 100 years is true but what I have found in my research is that many of them had already intermarried many times over the previous 150 years

_________________________________________________________________
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Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2009-11-28 18:45 | Permalink

Comment

I am talking about the 150 years before coming to the americas
------Original Message------
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Sender: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
Sent: Nov 28, 2009 4:57 PM

Which 150 years are you talking about? I know even today as we speak altenos still intermarry far close then they did

during the colony. Our gene pool is so small now we all have basically the same DNA and similar charateristics, I have 3rd

cousins that alomst are idential to me!

-Daniel

> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 00:34:16 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
>
> What you said about them all intermarrying the first 100 years is true but what I have found in my research is that many of them had already intermarried many times over the previous 150 years

____________________

Read full comment ➜

Published by Ruben_Casillas – Sun, 2009-11-29 17:30 | Permalink

Comment

Alteños intermerried for 300 years y lo sigue haciendo !

Ruben Casillas M.

--- El sáb 28-nov-09, Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto escribió:

De:: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado 28 de noviembre de 2009, 16:40

Not sure...I could legally and socially say all altenos are hidalgos by birth.
And since all of the altenos intermarried within 100 years everyone was

already related on the meseta, Aguascalientes, parts of Zac , Gto, Mich,

and SLP. Go figure!

Regards,

Daniel
                         
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::…

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sun, 2009-11-29 17:45 | Permalink

Comment

Hola ruben
Los altenos intermarried for 150 years before becoming altenos and doing it all over again for 300
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: ruben casillas moreno
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:15:46
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood

Alteños intermerried for 300 years y lo sigue haciendo !

Ruben Casillas M.

--- El sáb 28-nov-09, Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto escribió:

De:: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado 28 de noviembre de 2009, 16:40

Not sure...I could legally and socially say all altenos are hidalgos by birth.
And since all of the altenos intermarried within 100 years everyone was

already related on the meseta, Aguascalientes, parts of Zac , Gto, Mich,

and SLP. Go figure!

Regards,

Daniel
                         
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn

Read full comment ➜

Published by Ruben_Casillas – Sun, 2009-11-29 18:00 | Permalink

Comment

Tienes razón, you are right !!!!!!!

Ruben Casillas M.

--- El dom 29-nov-09, mygenes2000@yahoo.com escribió:

De:: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: domingo 29 de noviembre de 2009, 18:40

Hola ruben
Los altenos intermarried for 150 years before becoming altenos and doing it all over again for 300
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: ruben casillas moreno
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:15:46
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood

Alteños intermerried for 300 years y lo sigue haciendo !

Ruben Casillas M.

--- El sáb 28-nov-09, Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto escribió:

De:: Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado 28 de noviembre de 2009, 16:40

Not sure...I could legally and socially say all altenos are hidalgos by birth.
And since all of the altenos intermarried within 100 years

Read full comment ➜

Published by Rodriguez_de_Frias – Sun, 2009-11-29 18:45 | Permalink

Comment

Como dice el dicho: a la prima, se le arrima! (mexican slang)

-----Mensaje original-----
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de ruben
casillas moreno
Enviado el: Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:57 PM
Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org; mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood

Tienes razón, you are right !!!!!!!

Ruben Casillas M.

--- El dom 29-nov-09, mygenes2000@yahoo.com
escribió:

De:: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: domingo 29 de noviembre de 2009, 18:40

Hola ruben
Los altenos intermarried for 150 years before becoming altenos and doing it
all over again for 300
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: ruben casillas moreno
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:15:46
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood

Alteños intermerried for 300 years y lo sigue haciendo !

Ruben Casillas M

Read full comment ➜

Published by gnzlzspd – Sun, 2009-11-29 19:15 | Permalink

Comment

La prima es para que se exprima!!!

J. Gonzalez
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Rodriguez"
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 17:29
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood

Como dice el dicho: a la prima, se le arrima! (mexican slang)

-----Mensaje original-----
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de ruben
casillas moreno
Enviado el: Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:57 PM
Para: general@nuestrosranchos.org; mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood

Tienes razón, you are right !!!!!!!

Ruben Casillas M.

--- El dom 29-nov-09, mygenes2000@yahoo.com
escribió:

De:: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Royal blood
A: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: domingo 29 de noviembre de 2009, 18:40

Hola ruben
Los altenos intermarried for 150 years before becoming altenos and doing it
all over again for 300
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message---

Read full comment ➜

Published by sandragomezenriquez – Sun, 2009-11-29 20:30 | Permalink

Comment

How sexists! Y el primo que?

Just kidding guys. Saludos!

Family lines with known Jewish roots

Published by RaquelRuiz –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

I know I have seen references to those families from Los Altos that are known to have Jewish roots, but am having difficulty locating them in the archives. Would someone please assist me?

Comments

Published by katy_brecht_quesada – Fri, 2015-12-11 10:37 | Permalink

Comment

my grandpa got 12% middle eastern on ancestry, so you aren't the only mexican with above noise level middle eastern dna

Comment

Not all Jewish ancestry shows up as middle eastern dna. Many Ashkenazi Jews show European ancestry dna. The Jewish line that Toribio Hernandez Arellano descends from would show European ancestry dna. The idea that Jews more often married within their own family circles was strong in the davidic line. The Jewish families from Eastern Europe that immigrated into the Iberian peninsula tended to marry into the same families.there were about a couple dozen families that intermarried often in the 13th and 14th centuries.in Aragon and Southern France.

Comment

my grandpa got 5% european jewish as well. sometime ago i did the free transfer to ftdna, but i haven't got 4 people refered yet so i can't see his ftdna transfer myorigins results yet.

Comment

Not all Jewish ancestry shows up as middle eastern dna. The Jewish line that Toribio Hernandez Arellano descends from also shows European ancestry dna. The idea that Jews more often married within their own family circles was strong in the davidic line. The Jewish families from Eastern Europe that immigrated into the Iberian peninsula tended to marry into the same families.there were about a couple dozen families that intermarried often in the 13th and 14th centuries.in Aragon and Southern France.

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2015-11-28 15:05 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Raquel,

In the past year I have learned a lot more about the information that you seek. I am continuing my research so my book isn't finished yet. I have found that some of our lines traveled from Easter Europe a century and two centuries before the dispersal from the Iberian peninsula. These are not consider Sephardic Jews, they are called Ashkenazi Jews. This information helps explain your DNA results. I will let you know when I finish my book.

Thanks,
Rick A Ricci

Comment

I also came back with 3% Ashkenazi Jewish roots but don't know if it's from my Fathers Jerez, Zacatecas roots or my Mothers Michoacan, Jalisco roots. Is there a way to find out?
I'm also wondering why the comment that this is a sensitive subject to some members? Isn't our quest to find, reclaim and share the lineage and genetics of our ancestors when possible?
Linda Castanon-Long in Olympia, Wa

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sun, 2015-12-13 10:31 | Permalink

Comment

Jewish ancestry is a sensitive subject on this site.

Many genealogists on this site claim that our Jalisco Jewish ancestral lines are a myth. These genealodgists have ignored or discarded what we know about the Jewish presence in the Iberian peninsula from at least 2000 years ago. They claim "Christiano Viejo" status for all of their lines.

Toribio Hernandez de Arellano definitely has Jewish ancestry from his father. This line definitely has Ashkenazi Jewish and davidic line history.

The de la Torre Ledesma family definitely has some Jewish ancestry that they share with the Padilla-Davila and Rodriguez de Hijar families.

Yes, both Toribio Hernandez de Arellano and Pedro Ledesma will also show a lot of European ancestry.

Some people will claim that technically Toribio Hernandez de Arellano s descendants can claim "Christiano Viejo " status as his ancestor converted to Catholicism in August of 1389, two years before the 1391 forced conversions. His wife filed for a

Read full comment ➜

Comment

thank you so much for sharing your research and information on this subject.
My Dads Castanon line was Ribi and my maternal grandfather Gutierrez was Haplogroup N but now deceased and the site I did his dna on didn't break it down. My MTDNA was haplogroup A but I can only take that line back to abt 1850. Anything you share is of great value to me especially on the Ashkenazi Jewish roots.
Linda Castanon-Long

Comment

thank you so much for sharing your research and information on this subject.
My Dads Castanon line was Ribi and my maternal grandfather Gutierrez was Haplogroup N but now deceased and the site I did his dna on didn't break it down. My MTDNA was haplogroup A but I can only take that line back to abt 1850. Anything you share is of great value to me especially on the Ashkenazi Jewish roots.
Linda Castanon-Long

Comment

thank you so much for sharing your research and information on this subject.
My Dads Castanon line was Ribi and my maternal grandfather Gutierrez was Haplogroup N but now deceased and the site I did his dna on didn't break it down. My MTDNA was haplogroup A but I can only take that line back to abt 1850. Anything you share is of great value to me especially on the Ashkenazi Jewish roots.
Linda Castanon-Long

Comment

i'd consider toribio hernandez to be sephardic not askenazi, since azkenazi tends to refer to non-iberian european jews. i think there's other jewish lineages besides toribio's since my granparents don't appear to be descendents of him and my grandpa's dna results suggest that he has at least a little sephardic ancestry(like 1/8-ish or higher).

Comment

We had Ashkenazi Jews move into Spain in the 13th and 14th centuries. They tended to marry within their own group up until the dispersion. They had some different traditions than the Jews in the Iberian peninsula. Toribios paternal ancestry was part of this group. Toribio also descended from the davidic line.

The Jewish lines shared by the Padilla, Dela Torre Ledesma, and Rodriguez de Hijar does seem to be Sephardic.

Comment

are the de la torre ledesma related to the de la torre family in jerez/tepetongo/huejucar vincinity?

on another note, i haven't figured out which lines my grandpa got his me/sephardic from

Comment

I'd love to know this information too since so many have De la Torre in the Jerez, Tepetongo and Huejucar areas.
Linda in Olympia, Wa

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Tue, 2015-12-15 13:53 | Permalink

Comment

I don't know if the De la Torre in the Jerez, Tepetongo and Huejucar areas are the same De La Torre Ledesma. My De la Torre family that I have studied is widespread in Nueva Galicia. My more immediate De la Torre family is in los Altos de Jalisco and Aguascalientes.

Comment

This post comes out of no where. I have no idea what the writer is referring to.
Why do I never receive any of the posts from any of the forums. I've checked at the
site and I'm subscribed to all mailing lists, but receive nothing. What's wrong?
Thanks so much.
Alice BB
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 1/9/16, jlblonde@sbcglobal.net wrote:

Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Where is the evidence?
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, January 9, 2016, 6:06 PM

I would like to review the documents
myself. Where can i find these
documents?

Comment

To read all the information. Go to the website, log in, and read from there.

There are problems with the mail delivery in the various forums

To read all the messages go to the website, log in, and read

To post to the group you should be able to reply to the messages that are
delivered but to be safe you should:

Go to the website, log in, and post from the website.

Joseph

=========================

Joseph Puentes
Clean@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html

> -----Original Message-----
> From: General [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On
> Behalf Of Alice Blake
> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2016 7:49 PM
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Where is the evidence?
>
> This post comes out of no where. I have no idea what the writer is
> referring to.
> Why do I never receive any of the posts from any of the forums. I've
> checked at the site and I'm subscribed to all mailing lists, but
> receive nothing. What's wrong?
>

Read full comment ➜

Comment

I get the same thing. So, if I am really intrigued by a post for which I have not received a prior post, I have to sign in to the Nuestros Ranchos website and I find all the posts there even when I have only received some of them.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 00:48:38 +0000
> From: alicebb@att.net
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Where is the evidence?
>
> This post comes out of no where. I have no idea what the writer is referring to.
> Why do I never receive any of the posts from any of the forums. I've checked at the
> site and I'm subscribed to all mailing lists, but receive nothing. What's wrong?
> Thanks so much.
> Alice BB
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 1/9/16, jlblonde@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Where is the evidence?
> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Saturday, January 9, 2016, 6:06 PM
>
> I would like to review the documents
> myself

Read full comment ➜

Comment

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1&region=MEXICO

Pick your state and go browsing.

John P. Schmal

-----Original Message-----
From: jlblonde
To: general
Sent: Sat, Jan 9, 2016 4:06 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Where is the evidence?

I would like to review the documents myself. Where can i find these
documents?

Read full comment ➜

Comment

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1&region=MEXICO

Pick your state and go browsing.

John P. Schmal

-----Original Message-----
From: jlblonde
To: general
Sent: Sat, Jan 9, 2016 4:06 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Where is the evidence?

I would like to review the documents myself. Where can i find these
documents?

Read full comment ➜

Published by michelja2k – Wed, 2015-11-25 21:49 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Raquel allow me to recommend a certain book which I recently researched "Silent Heritage" by Richard Santos. I found it informative and well documented. It refers to the many colonial families who were summond by the Inquisition as suspected Jewish Conversos.Lists names and dates. Good luck.

Comment

I'm unsure whether I'm the Raquel for whom this is intended, but I
appreciate the recommendation. It looks like its going to be a challenge
to locate.

Raquel Ruiz
Massachusetts

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 11:47 PM, wrote:

> I Raquel allow me to recommend a certain book which I recently researched
> "Silent Heritage" by Richard Santos. I found it informative and well
> documented. It refers to the many colonial families who were summond by the
> Inquisition as suspected Jewish Conversos.Lists names and dates. Good luck.
>

Comment

this book used is for sale on Amazon for $198.  I think there are not many copies out there..Linda
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Raquel Ruiz
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2015 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish roots

I'm unsure whether I'm the Raquel for whom this is intended, but I
appreciate the recommendation.  It looks like its going to be a challenge
to locate.

Raquel Ruiz
Massachusetts

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 11:47 PM, wrote:

> I Raquel allow me to recommend a certain book which I recently researched
> "Silent Heritage" by Richard Santos. I found it informative and well
> documented. It refers to the many colonial families who were summond by the
> Inquisition as suspected Jewish Conversos.Lists names and dates. Good luck.
>

Comment

Hi again Raquel, I was able to get this book through my local county library in Southern CA. I simply gave the librarian the title and author she entered it in her computer and we ordered/borrowed it from a campus of the University of Texas. I've gotten several hard to find and rare historical reference books from University libraries through out the country this way. And it's inexpensive. Good luck.

Comment

Thanks for Erlinda, I plan to do just that after I retire next year, so I
can give the resource my full attention.
Raquel

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2014-01-18 23:03 | Permalink

Comment

this is a sensitive subject with many members. It is best to discuss your question privately. I am working on a project that will address your results. A post that addresses a small piece of the puzzle of our DNA results can be found in my latest post on the ancestry of Carlo Lomellini. I am working on a book that has a chapter that will more fully address your findings.When I finish that chapter, I will share it with you.
R.A Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2015-12-19 00:03 | Permalink

Comment

Hello George

I was hoping to have had it published this past summer but I got caught doing a lot of research which has added more information that I am going to add. I say every year that I hope to publish by the next summer. The difference today is that I am now comfortable publishing the book with the research that I have already completed.

i need to compare the different software programs to make the tables for the book, and decide if the book is only going to be in English or in both English and Spanish.

Even if the book is not published in time, I would hope to at least present a rough draft of the book in July 2016 in Los Angeles, California. I have many elderly relatives that are urging me to present the findings soon.

Rick A Ricci

Comment

Dear george
I said that I had enough research for the book but new material is discovered and then I have to go back and rewrite a section. I had one of our ancestors as a devout converso who married his daughters to Old Christian noble families. He stated that it was important for them to marry into these families, old Christians with new Christians. However, I just found out that on his deathbed he called out to God using Jewish phrases stating that he was going to him after obeying all of his laws. The line between converso and Jewish is a slippery one at times, and at other times conversion led to fanaticism, like Torquemada.

Although I keep finding these lines, it is important to remember that it is a minority and I keep finding many lines that aren't Jewish. I have found some French lines to my surprise. The great thing about these findings is that I have stories to go with many of these people. The claim that Jewish and French ancestors in Jalisco may be a myth but it is

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Pedro de Anda-Altamirano

Published by mendezdetorres –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Does anyone have more info on him or descend from this family. His was the son of the proignitor of the anda Surname in los Altos. I dont know who his father was though. He was born ca. 1565 en Guadalajara and married to Beatriz Gonzales de Castaneda.

Comments

Published by pcenteno – Sun, 2016-01-10 08:18 | Permalink

Comment

I have a Ana de Anda y Altamirano whose father is listed as Pedro de And a y Altamirano, born in 1551 Reynos de Castilla, Spain, and whose father is listed as Pedro de And a y Altamirano born in Jardines de San Juan, Salamanca Castilla y Leon.

This is information that was passed down to me so I have no idea how that information was received.

Paul

Published by gmotovar@prodi… – Wed, 2010-07-21 09:14 | Permalink

Comment

Sobre el tema de los Anda Altamirano, tengo muchas dudas.

La primera, ¿sabemos cuando vino la unión de Pedro de Anda Castañeda con N. Altamirano?

¿Esta señora Altamirano era pariente del oidor Altamirano? El chantre Diego Flores de la Torre (manuscrito Bancroft) dice que era su sobrina y que la tuvo viviendo en su casa.

El oidor Pedro de Altamirano, natural de Paradines, Extremadura, hijo de Pedro Gutiérrez de Altamirano y de Catalina Díaz de Montenegro, vino a Nueva España, como todos lo saben, en 1581, con su esposa Juana de Santander y sus hijos Pedro y Petronila Altamirano. Parece que sufrieron percances en la travesía.

Dicho oidor, nombra a Pedro de Anda y a su cuñado Juan de Zorita, vecinos de Lagos, como Jueces Receptores de Bienes de difuntos en Zacatecas, para las juisdicciones del mismo Lagos y Teocaltiche, en 18 de junio de 1584. Esto vincula al Oidor Altamirano con Pedro de Anda, marido de Beatríz de Castañeda, hermana de Zorita.

Pero sigue mi pregunta: ¿Como y cuando

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Estoy excribiendo un ensayo sobre estos: Los Altamirano de Castilla y como

conectan a nosotros, pues ya vengo de los Altamirano de Castilla y los

ANDA Altamirano en varias lineas seperadas. He cogido varios fuentes y mucho

documentos que nos podra ayudar. Este Esteban de Pastrana si lo se. Su esposa

era Catalina Ortiz de Anda, esta ultima viene de una linea iligitima de los De Ana

Altamirano, lo he estudiado bastante muy bien. Pues me voy de prisa.....

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gmotovar@prodigy.net.mx
> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:14:00 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Esteban de Pastrana padre de Pedro de Anda
>
> Sobre el tema de los Anda Altamirano, tengo muchas dudas.
>
> La primera, ¿sabemos cuando vino la unión de Pedro de Anda Castañeda con N. Altamirano?
>
> ¿Esta señora Altamirano era pariente del oidor Altamirano? El chantre Diego Flores de la Torre (manuscrito Bancroft) dice que era su sobrina

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Es de otro modo, los Anda nunca eran Anda Castaneda, aunque Pedro de Anda Altamirano

era casado a Beatriz Gonzalez de Castaneda. Hay varios expedientes en Archivo Historico

de Guadalajara, sobre este Pedro de Anda, aunque creo que habia dos PEdro de Anda,

el viejo y el hijo, ya que en los expedientes se tratan de hombres diferentes de una

edad muy seperada. Pedro de Ana Altamirano caso a Beatriz de Castaneda hija del conquistador

Pedro de Castaneda. Esto dice que el apellido ANDA ALTAMIRANO es poco mas viejo. Son los

padres de este dicho Pedro que componieron sus apellidos. Segun los registros que he conseguido

lo puntan a ese modo. El apellido Anda Altamirano formo en los principios anos en unas de las Guadalajaras

cuando una union muy importante ocurrio. Espero que en mi ensayo puedo explicar todo.

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gmotovar@prodigy.net.mx
> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:14:00 -0700
> Subject:

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Tengo el pase de Indias a México de Beatriz de Castañeda, con su hermana y
Juan de Zorita y ofrece los nombres de sus padres, que no corresponden al
del conquistador Pedro de Castañeda.

Luego envío el dato exacto.

Saludos

GTT

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Daniel
Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Enviado el: Miércoles, 21 de Julio de 2010 04:45 a.m.
Para: Patty Hoyos
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Esteban de Pastrana padre de Pedro de Anda

Es de otro modo, los Anda nunca eran Anda Castaneda, aunque Pedro de Anda
Altamirano

era casado a Beatriz Gonzalez de Castaneda. Hay varios expedientes en
Archivo Historico

de Guadalajara, sobre este Pedro de Anda, aunque creo que habia dos PEdro de
Anda,

el viejo y el hijo, ya que en los expedientes se tratan de hombres
diferentes de una

edad muy seperada. Pedro de Ana Altamirano caso a Beatriz de Castaneda hija
del conquistador

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Saque estos datos, de Mariano Gonzalez Leal, obviamente necesitamos ser mas cuidados con cual

quier fuente.

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> From: gmotovar@prodigy.net.mx
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:10:04 -1200
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Esteban de Pastrana padre de Pedro de Anda
>
> Tengo el pase de Indias a México de Beatriz de Castañeda, con su hermana y
> Juan de Zorita y ofrece los nombres de sus padres, que no corresponden al
> del conquistador Pedro de Castañeda.
>
> Luego envío el dato exacto.
>
> Saludos
>
> GTT
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Daniel
> Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> Enviado el: Miércoles, 21 de Julio de 2010 04:45 a.m.
> Para: Patty Hoyos
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Esteban de Pastrana padre de Pedro de Anda
>
>
> Es de otro modo, los Anda nunca eran Anda Castaneda

Read full comment ➜

Comment

El problema es que te saquen de la ignorancia pero para meterte en la
confusión.

Fue el problema de Dávila Garibi, por ejemplo. Mariano es otra cosa, porque
su trabajo es de tal envergadura, que siempre corre el riesgo de no
comprobar los miles y miles de datos que publica. Es imposible lograr eso en
una vida.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Daniel
Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Enviado el: Miércoles, 21 de Julio de 2010 07:33 a.m.
Para: Patty Hoyos
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Esteban de Pastrana padre de Pedro de Anda

Saque estos datos, de Mariano Gonzalez Leal, obviamente necesitamos ser mas
cuidados con cual

quier fuente.

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> From: gmotovar@prodigy.net.mx
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:10:04 -1200
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Esteban de Pastrana padre de Pedro de Anda
>
> Tengo el

Read full comment ➜

Comment

I found a 1553 file from the Mexico City Sagrario which shows that a person named Juan de Altamirano el Viejo had a daughter named Isabel. They were godparents at the baptism of Agustina, the daughter of Juan de Altamirano and dona Petronilla.

I was wondering if this Isabel de Altamirano could be the the wife of Pedro de Anda.

The archive is located at:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939Z-RHND-R?i=218&wc=3P65-MNP%3…

Mexico DF, Bautismos de españoles 1536-1546, 1552-1589 / Image 2149

Comment

very god, Who was Juan Altamirano el viejo?

2016-01-07 10:06 GMT-06:00 :

> I found a 1553 file from the Mexico City Sagrario which shows that a person
> named Juan de Altamirano el Viejo had a daughter named Isabel. They were
> godparents at the baptism of Agustina, the daughter of Juan de Altamirano
> and
> dona Petronilla. I was wondering if this Isabel de Altamirano could be the
> the wife of Pedro de Anda. The archive is located at:
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939Z-RHND-R?i=218&wc=3P65-MNP%3…
> Mexico DF, Bautismos de españoles 1536-1546, 1552-1589 / Image 2149
>

Comment

very god, Who was Juan Altamirano el viejo?

2016-01-07 10:06 GMT-06:00 :

> I found a 1553 file from the Mexico City Sagrario which shows that a person
> named Juan de Altamirano el Viejo had a daughter named Isabel. They were
> godparents at the baptism of Agustina, the daughter of Juan de Altamirano
> and
> dona Petronilla. I was wondering if this Isabel de Altamirano could be the
> the wife of Pedro de Anda. The archive is located at:
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939Z-RHND-R?i=218&wc=3P65-MNP%3…
> Mexico DF, Bautismos de españoles 1536-1546, 1552-1589 / Image 2149
>

Comment

I have no clue who the parents, "Juan de Altamirano and his wife dona Petronilla," are.

The "licenciado Altamirano" mentioned must be el Lic. Juan Gutierrez de Altamirano, married to Juana Altamirano. It appears that two of his sons are also godparents.

"Juan Alonso" is noted as the son of el licenciado Altamirano. Juan Alonso de Altamirano was married to Isabel de Estrada.

"Hernan Gutierrez and his wife dona Fca" may be el Lic. Juan Gutierrez de Altamirano's son Hernan Gutierrez de Altamirano, married to Francisco Osorio.

I also don't know the identity of "Juan de Altamirano el viejo" who has a daughter named Isabel.

Comment

L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez

> From: gmotovar@prodigy.net.mx
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:10:04 -1200
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Esteban de Pastrana padre de Pedro de Anda
>
> Tengo el pase de Indias a México de Beatriz de Castañeda, con su hermana y
> Juan de Zorita y ofrece los nombres de sus padres, que no corresponden al
> del conquistador Pedro de Castañeda.
>
> Luego envío el dato exacto.
>
> Saludos
>
> GTT
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Daniel
> Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> Enviado el: Miércoles, 21 de Julio de 2010 04:45 a.m.
> Para: Patty Hoyos
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Esteban de Pastrana padre de Pedro de Anda
>
>
> Es de otro modo, los Anda nunca eran Anda Castaneda, aunque Pedro de Anda
>

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Sabes que GUillermo ya encontre la razon porque Diego Flores de la Torre

tenia una sobrina llamada Isabel Altamirano de Castilla. Era hija de Juan de Anda Altamirano,

hermana de Beatriz de Castaneda esposa del mencionado Diego Flores.

y Juana Ruiz de Nava. Dicha Isabel caso Capt. Francisco Prieto Gallardo el

20 de enero de 1659 en Teocaltiche. Interesante como esta Isabel usa

Altamirano de Castilla ya que su padre era DE ANDA ALTAMIRANO, esto tambien

es un base para mi evidencia que esta Isabel uso el nombre su abuela.

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gmotovar@prodigy.net.mx
> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:14:00 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Esteban de Pastrana padre de Pedro de Anda
>
> Sobre el tema de los Anda Altamirano, tengo muchas dudas.
>
> La primera, ¿sabemos cuando vino la unión de Pedro de Anda Castañeda con N. Altamirano?
>
> ¿Esta señora Altamirano era pariente del oidor Altamirano? El chantre

Read full comment ➜

Comment

No lo creo. Todavía no sabemos porque Pedro de Anda Castañeda en sus hijos
transformo el apellido en Anda Altamirano, por eso envie el correo con los
datos del oidor y la relacin que tuvo con Pedro de Anda (sin el Altamirano).

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Daniel
Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Enviado el: Miércoles, 21 de Julio de 2010 04:53 a.m.
Para: Patty Hoyos; Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Esteban de Pastrana padre de Pedro de Anda

Sabes que GUillermo ya encontre la razon porque Diego Flores de la Torre

tenia una sobrina llamada Isabel Altamirano de Castilla. Era hija de Juan de
Anda Altamirano,

hermana de Beatriz de Castaneda esposa del mencionado Diego Flores.

y Juana Ruiz de Nava. Dicha Isabel caso Capt. Francisco Prieto Gallardo el

20 de enero de 1659 en Teocaltiche. Interesante como esta Isabel usa

Altamirano de

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Comment

Los padres de Pedro de Anda Castaneda son DE ANDA

y Altamirano de Castilla.

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> From: gmotovar@prodigy.net.mx
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:21:01 -1200
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Esteban de Pastrana padre de Pedro de Anda
>
> No lo creo. Todavía no sabemos porque Pedro de Anda Castañeda en sus hijos
> transformo el apellido en Anda Altamirano, por eso envie el correo con los
> datos del oidor y la relacin que tuvo con Pedro de Anda (sin el Altamirano).
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Daniel
> Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> Enviado el: Miércoles, 21 de Julio de 2010 04:53 a.m.
> Para: Patty Hoyos; Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
> Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Esteban de Pastrana padre de Pedro de Anda
>
>
> Sabes que GUillermo ya encontre la razon porque Diego Flores

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Comment

Eso no es posible ni está comprobado.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Daniel
Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon
Enviado el: Miércoles, 21 de Julio de 2010 07:35 a.m.
Para: Patty Hoyos
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Esteban de Pastrana padre de Pedro de Anda

Los padres de Pedro de Anda Castaneda son DE ANDA

y Altamirano de Castilla.

Daniel Mendez de Camino y Garcia de Leon

> From: gmotovar@prodigy.net.mx
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:21:01 -1200
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Esteban de Pastrana padre de Pedro de Anda
>
> No lo creo. Todavía no sabemos porque Pedro de Anda Castañeda en sus hijos
> transformo el apellido en Anda Altamirano, por eso envie el correo con los
> datos del oidor y la relacin que tuvo con Pedro de Anda (sin el
Altamirano).
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>

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Published by jjramirezi – Mon, 2008-02-11 12:07 | Permalink

Comment

Daniel,

There is a large branch of de Anda family in San Juan de los Lagos, although most of them have moved to Queretaro and Mexico City.

I talked to Javier de Anda yesterday in Mexico Cy and he told me that one of his cousins (Pablo de Anda Esqueda) who lives in Queretaro, is working on both of his surnames genealogy, including e-mail addresses from all of them.

I´m planning to visit Queretaro in a couple of weeks and I´ll try to contact Pablo. As soon as have further information, I´ll get back to you.

Best Regards,

Juan Jose Ramirez Ibarra

Comment

Hola, Bill  anterior a esto, te mande preguntar algo, en lo que muy seguramente me puedas ayudar.    Solamente que hay un Pedro de Anda Ruiz. Ch; 11 Dec 1616, en Lagos de Moreno. 0221879 Film. Hijo de Juan de Anda y Juana Ruiz, muy posible, otro Pedro más.
 Y en este caso ya serían ocho los hijos del dicho Juan de Anda y Juana Ruiz de Nava.
Cordialmente.

Comment

Hola, Celestino. Tienes razón, este parece ser otro Pedro de Anda
[Altamirano], hijo de Juan de Anda [Altamirano] y Juana Ruiz [de Nava].
Cronológicamente cae dentro del lapso en que esta pareja tuvo a sus hijos.
Además, era contemporaneo de Pedro de Anda Altamirano, hijo de Esteban de
Anda Altamirano y Catalina López de Portugal. Y los dos vivieron en Santa
María de los Lagos al mismo tiempo.

BILL FIGUEROA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Celestino Villalobos"
To: "Bill Figueroa"
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 8:54 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pedro de Anda Altamirano

Hola, Bill anterior a esto, te mande preguntar algo, en lo que muy
seguramente me puedas ayudar. Solamente que hay un Pedro de Anda Ruiz. Ch;
11 Dec 1616, en Lagos de Moreno. 0221879 Film. Hijo de Juan de Anda y Juana
Ruiz, muy posible, otro Pedro más.
Y en este caso ya serían ocho los hijos del dicho Juan de Anda y Juana Ruiz
de Nava.
Cordialmente.

Comment

Gracias, Bill por tu ayuda. Por otro lado y de acuerdo con la carta de Emilie Garcia a Carlos sería una lastima que un trabajo de toda la vida, se vaya a perder, hablando del trabajo del Sr. Holocombe. Y Claro a todos nos gustaría, poder salvar esos papeles, con información tan valiosa, y estoy hablando por todos aquellos, que no participan por verguenza o por cualquier razón, pero que siempre estamos levandando de las migajitas que caen de la mesa. Y siempre estamos pendientes, de los comentarios, información y noticias, atras de la pantalla.
   Cordialmente Celestino

--- On Sun, 8/23/09, Bill Figueroa wrote:

From: Bill Figueroa
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pedro de Anda Altamirano
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 12:53 AM

Hola, Celestino.  Tienes razón, este parece ser otro Pedro de Anda [Altamirano], hijo de Juan de Anda [Altamirano] y Juana Ruiz [de Nava]. Cronológicamente cae dentro del lapso en que esta pareja tuvo a sus hijos. Además, era

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Comment

Jaime Holcombe, Diversas Cartas.
2. De Pedro Gómez de Portugal e Isabel Ortiz de Anda, tomó los votos matrimoniales 18 de junio 1613. Ella observó como "hija de Pedro de Anda", el "padrinos" fueron Juan de Burgos (la "estrella" en el documento de 1608) y Leonor de Busto. La esposa era hija natural de Pedro de Anda, que también era un hijo natural del capitán Pedro de Anda Altamirano, en el párrafo anterior. La familia era grande, tengo nueve hijos que se casó. Ellos son a menudo registran como mestizos. Madres desconocido para los dos illegitimacies en esta rama.

Las nupcias de 18 de junio 1613 fueron entre Pedro Gómez y Isabel Hortiz, "hija de Pedro de Anda." Él, de natalidad estimada en 1592. Están en mi carta anterior con todos los hijos de sus padres. La carta con la hipótesis de que Manuel Gómez, de Jalos, podría ser prueba de que fueron a Portugal Gómez.
Esposa es Isabel de Pedro Ortiz de Anda, en la mayoría de los registros y dio a luz a once niños, nueve casados. Con espacio

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Comment

Jorge y Celestino,

Me alegra que le información les haya servido. Poco a poco voy acumulando
mas información de Jalisco y Zacatecas. Empezé con Aguascalientes porque
allí originaron mis antepasados, empezando por mi bisabuela María Josefa
Frías Ruiz de Esparza, pero poco a poco me he ido extendiendo a los Altos de
Jalisco y Zacatecas. Mi bisabuela nació en Rincón de Romos, Ags. pero sus
ancestros eran de la Ciudad de Aguascalientes por el lado materno y de San
Luis Potosí por el paterno.

Con respecto al libro de Jaime Holcombe, me dió mucha satisfacción saber que
finalmente, 14 años después de la muerte de su padre, sus hijos decidieron
publicar su libro inconcluso "Nosotros". Sus investigaciones fueron
extensas y muy parecidas a las nuestras. Yo siempre he considerado que Mr.
Holcombe fue un investigador muy serio, con una gran afición por la
genealogía. Indudablemente que cometió algunos errores, pero al fin y al
cabo todos somos humanos. Eso nos dice que por muy

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Comment

Hola Bill y Jorge.
 
Pues, Bill tengo que confesarte que tengo mucho trabajo que hacer en Aguascalientes. Pues he observado que tu noveno Great Grandparents son mis abuelos tambien, hablando de Luis Molina de Tiscareño y Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza que casaron un 16 May 1623.
 
Luis Tiscareño y Lorenza Ruiz Esparza, tuvieron como hijo a Juan Tiscareño Ruiz que caso con Isabel Romo de Vivar abt. 1656.
 
Juan Tiscareño e Isabel Romo de Vivar , tuvieron como hija a Francisca Tiscareño Romo de vivar que caso, abt 1689 con Tomas Villalobos Martin del Campo, él hijo de Salvador Villalobos y Francisca Martin del Campo.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Por otro lado, encontre algo  en la Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara que confirma y reafirma la información que nos diste referente a Pedro de Anda de Altamirano. Ademas que nos informa de los dos matrimonios de Esteban de Anda el joven.
 
Lagos de

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Comment

Gracias Celestino por el fragmento de la dispensa matrimonial de los de Anda Altamirano, es de gran ayuda.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
Messenger cumple 10 años y tiene regalos para ti
www.aniversariomessenger.com.mx

Comment

Jaime Holcombe, Diversas Cartas.
Beltrán de la Cueva, sepultada en Zacatecas, h.l. Juan Valadés y Maria Romo. Eugenia de Villalobos (21), originaria de Teocaltiche, h.l. Nicolás de Villalobos (+) e Ysabel Romo.

(Mateo González de Ruvalcaba md 1. Gerónima Morales)
|
(María López, married twice:)
(1) Ags. 9 Oct 1625, Domingo Rebollo) (2) Diego Carrillo de Sandi)

María Rebollo---------------(1/2 sibs)---------- Teresa Carrillo
(md 1. Juan Valadés) (md Nicolás de Villalobos, Teoc. 27 Apr 1664)

Juan Valadés-------------------- 2---------------- Nicolás de Villalobos
(md Maria Romo, Ags 4 Feb 1690) (md Isabel Romo de Vivar)
el pretenso----------------------- 3---------------- la pretensa

* * *

Juan Tiscareño Ruíz de Esparza, nacido por 1631 en Aguascalientes y casado en dos ocasiones, la primera por 1656 con ISABEL ROMO DE VIVAR. Y la segunda el 25 de marzo de 1693 con JUANA SANTA CRUZ.

Juan Tiscareño Ruíz de Esparza, nacido por 1631 en Aguascalientes y c

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Comment

Salvador,

De donde puedes ver "Jaime Holcombe - Diversas Cartas"? Estan en IGI? Tienes el Batch numero?

Gracias,

Emilie
Port Orchard, Washington, USA
----- Original Message -----
From: cabval@gmail.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pedro de Anda Altamirano

Jaime Holcombe, Diversas Cartas.
Beltrán de la Cueva, sepultada en Zacatecas, h.l. Juan Valadés y Maria Romo. Eugenia de Villalobos (21), originaria de Teocaltiche, h.l. Nicolás de Villalobos (+) e Ysabel Romo.

Comment

DOES ANY BODY KNOWS  WHO THE PARENTS WERE FOR ISABEL ROMO DE VIVAR, MARRIED TO JUAN TIZCARENO RUIZ DE ESPARZA IN AGUASCALIENTES IN 1657.

ALGUIEN SABE QUIENES FUERON LOA PADRES DE ISABEL ROMO DE VIVAR CASADA CON JUAN TIZCARENO RUIZ DE ESPARZA EN AGUASCALIENTES EN 1657.

SALUDOS Y GRACIAS.

LUIS MIGUEL GONZALEZ.

________________________________
From: "cabval@gmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:30:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pedro de Anda Altamirano

Jaime Holcombe, Diversas Cartas.
Beltrán de la Cueva, sepultada en Zacatecas, h.l. Juan Valadés y Maria Romo.  Eugenia de Villalobos (21), originaria de Teocaltiche, h.l. Nicolás de Villalobos (+) e Ysabel Romo.

(Mateo González de Ruvalcaba md 1. Gerónima Morales)
                        |
(María López, married twice:)
    (1) Ags. 9 Oct 1625, Domingo Rebollo)      (2) Diego Carrillo de Sandi)

    María Rebollo---------------(1/2 sibs)----------    Teresa Carrillo
    (md 1

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Primera generación

1. Isabel Romo de Vivar.

Isabel se casó con Juan Tiscareño y Ruiz de Esparza, hijo de Luis Tiscareño y Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza, en 1656. Juan nació en 1631 en Aguascalientes Ags.

Segunda generación

2. Geronimo Romo de Vivar nació en Mexico. Él se casó Margarita Tiscareño y Ruiz de Esparza en 1662.

3. Margarita Tiscareño y Ruiz de Esparza nació el 7 Enero 1642 en Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico y tuvo su bautismo infantil el 7 Enero 1642 en Sagrario, Aguascalientes.

Tercera generación

4. Joseph Romo de Vivar nació estimado 1622. Él se casó con Juana de Solis Calahorra en 1644 en Presidio de Conchos Chihuahua.

5. Juana de Solis Calahorra nació estimado 1629.

6. Luis Tiscareño nació en 1598 en Sevilla España. Él se casó Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza el 16 Mayo 1623.

7. Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza nació en 1602 en Aguascalientes Ags..

Cuarta generación

8. Diego Capitan Romo de Vivar tuvo su bautismo infantil el 12 Marzo 1589 en Rieves Toledo. Él se

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Comment

Hola Salvador, Joseph Romo de Vivar tuvo su bautismo infántil el 30 de junio de 1625,

en San Felipe, Guanajuato, Méjico, hijo lex. de Capitan Diego Romo de Vivar y Maria Rangel.

Ojala que te ayuda este dato. -Daniel

_________________________________________________________________

Comment

Alguien sabe quien son los padres de Maria Romo de Vivar, esposa de Juan Macias Valades, padre de Beltran de la Cueva? Y Isabel Romo de Vivar, esposa de Nicolas Villalobos Campos? madre de Eugenia de Villalobos?
-Daniel

_________________________________________________________________

Comment

Juan Tiscareño Ruíz de Esparza, nacido por 1631 en Aguascalientes y casado en dos ocasiones, la primera por 1656 con ISABEL ROMO DE VIVAR. Y la segunda el 25 de marzo de 1693 con JUANA SANTA CRUZ.
de Jaime Holcombe,
Here's a "dispensa" where the María López of two paragraphs ago comes in: (6123) Aguascalientes, 12 Mar 1734. "Dos impedimentos de tercer grado de consanguinidad: Joseph Manuel Macías Valadés (38) viudo de Agueda Beltrán de la Cueva, sepultada en Zacatecas, h.l. Juan Valadés y Maria Romo. Eugenia de Villalobos (21), originaria de Teocaltiche, h.l. Nicolás de Villalobos (+) e Ysabel Romo.

(Mateo González de Ruvalcaba md 1. Gerónima Morales)
|
(María López, married twice:)
(1) Ags. 9 Oct 1625, Domingo Rebollo) (2) Diego Carrillo de Sandi)

María Rebollo---------------(1/2 sibs)---------- Teresa Carrillo
(md 1. Juan Valadés) (md Nicolás de Villalobos, Teoc. 27 Apr 1664)

Juan Valadés-------------------- 2---------------- Nicolás de Villalobos
(md

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Hola, Daniel. Tal vez esto te sirva un poco.
 
Aguascalientes, Ags. Marzo 12 de 1734. Exp. 82.-  Dispensa de tercero grado de consanguinidad por dos lineas.- Joseph Manuel Macias Valadés, español de 38 años de edad, originario y vecino de esta villa, viudo de Agueda Beltrán de la Cueva.Hijo legitimo de Juan Macías Valadés y de Maria Romo; con Eugenea de Villalobos, española de 21 años de edad, originaria y vecina del partido de Teocaltiche y residente en esta villa, hija legitima de Nicoláas de Villalobos, difunto y de Isabel Romo. Declaración del pretenso: Maria Rebollo y Theresa Carrillo, fueron hermanas, de Maria Rebollo, vino Juan Macías Valadés, mi padre, y de Theresa Carrillo, vino Nicolás de Villalobos, padre de la pretensa. Y por la otra parte,
 
Gerónimo Romo y Francisco Romo, fueron hermanos, de Gerónimo Romo, vino Isabel Romo, madre de mi contrayente, ( y de Francisco Romo, vino Maria Romo), mi madre. Se otorgó la dispensa en la ciudad de Guadalajara, en 23 de marzo de 1734

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Comment

Yo tengo como padres de María Romo de Vivar a Francisco Romo de Vivar y Lorenza Delgado. Y los padres de Isabel Romo de Vivar como Jerónimo Romo de Vivar y Margarita Tiscareño de Molina.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
Messenger cumple 10 años y tiene regalos para ti
www.aniversariomessenger.com.mx

Comment

Francisco Romo de Vivar  Y Lorenza Tiscareño de Molina, posibles padres de Maria Romo.
Ver. Gedcom. Nuestros Ranchos. Sandra Mendoza.
Celestino.

--- On Thu, 8/27/09, Daniel M�ndez del Camino wrote:

From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pedro de Anda Altamirano
To: "Patty Hoyos"
Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 12:17 AM

Alguien sabe quien son los padres de Maria Romo de Vivar, esposa de Juan Macias Valades, padre de Beltran de la Cueva? Y Isabel Romo de Vivar, esposa de Nicolas Villalobos Campos? madre de Eugenia de Villalobos?
-Daniel

_________________________________________________________________

Comment

Hola Celestino,

Muchas gracias por los datos de la dispensa otorgada por la Sagrada Mitra al
Capt. Esteban de Anda Altamirano y D. Ines de Pedroza Marmolejo. Encontré
el casamiento en la Villa de San Felipe, Guanajuato, que formaba parte del
Obispado de Michoacán. Se casaron el 18 de junio de 1703 y efectivamente,
como dice la dispensa, eran primos segundos (3er. grado de consanguinidad).
Con esa dispensa saqué muchos otros datos de esa familia.

Que interesante que resultamos primos en enésimo grado por la línea
Tiscareño-Ruiz de Esparza. Como acertadamente lo has dicho, nuestros
ancestros comunes mas cercanos son Luis Tiscareño de Molina y Lorenza Ruiz
de Esparza.

Un saludo,
BILL FIGUEROA

Comment

Could it be possible that Juan de Anda (b. ca. 1595) married to Juana Ruiz de Nava be the son (or grandson) of Pedro de Anda and Beatriz de Castaneda, who moved to Sta. Maria de los Lagos (Lagos de Moreno) in 1565. Pedro was still acquiring additional land in December of 1591.

Sera posible qu Juan de Anda (nacido alrededor de 1595), casado con Juana Ruiz de Nava sea el hijo (o nieto) de Pedro de Anda y Beatriz de Castaneda, vecinos de Sta. Maria de Los Lagos, (Lagos de Moreno) a partir de 1565. Pedro seguia adquiriendo tierras en diciembre de 1591.

Jaime R. Alvarado

Comment

Jaime,

I have Juan de Anda Altamirano (born ca. 1595) married to Juana Ruiz de Nava
y Guerra (born ca. 1599) as the son of Pedro de Anda Altamirano and Beatriz
González de Castañeda. Seems like we discussed this issue a few months ago,
right?

Bill Figueroa

Comment

Bill,
Yes, we discussed this issue. What does not make sense to me after checking the history of Lagos is that if Juan de Anda was born in 1595, and Pedro de Anda and Beatriz Gonzalez de Castañeda were his parents, then Beatriz would have been about 45-50 years old whe she gave birth to Juan,given that Pedro and Beatriz received land in Lagos from Hernado de Martel on March 26 1565. Now, its possible that Juan was born earlier, and that Beatriz was very young when she married Pedro.

Jaime Alvarado,

Comment

You're right, Jaime. However, notice that must of the dates are
approximations including the dob of Pedro de Anda Altamirano, Beatriz
González de Castañeda and their children Beatriz, Esteban and Juan de Anda
Altamirano. I've found some estimates way off and this could be the case
here. I'm going to do some checking and will get back to you later.

Bill Figueroa

Comment

Jaime,

I checked my notes and can confirm that Pedro de Anda received a land grant in 1565. Basically it reads:

"Una caballeria de tierra río abajo del río de Sauceda en una vuelta que llaman Las Cuevas y mas acá de una mesa, tres cuartos de legua de esta Villa (Sta. María de los Lagos), y una estancia del otro cabo de la dicha mesa junto al río que va de esta villa hacia el poniente dos leguas poco mas o menos de ella, y un solar de casa". This land grant was dated in Guadalajara 27 August 1565."

Eleven years later he received another land grant from Don Gerónimo de Orosco, Presidente, Gobernador y Capitán General del Reino de la Nueva Galicia, de "un sitio de estancia para ganado mayor, tres leguas poco mas o menos de Sta. María de los Lagos, río abajo en la parte donde hace vuelta y están unos albarradones". This second land grant was dated in Guadalajara 17 August 1576.

Neither one mentions his wife Doña Beatriz González de Castañeda. However, I found one land grant dated

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Published by margeval – Fri, 2008-01-04 10:45 | Permalink

Comment

I'm descended from a woman whose surnames are Anda Altamirano but I
can't find my info at present. Will be back in touch later about it.
Marge:)
On Jan 3, 2008, at 9:12 PM, mormonboy74 wrote:

>
> Does anyone have more info on him or descend from this family. His was
> the son of the proignitor of the anda Surname in los Altos. I dont
> know who his father was though. He was born ca. 1565 en Guadalajara
> and married to Beatriz Gonzales de Castaneda. I dont have any info on
> their marriage. Their son Juan de Anda is my 11th Grt Gf. I think this
> is where it ends but will still try. I was trying to get on PARES
> website but it wont let me for some reason. Does anyone know more of
> the ANDA family? -Daniel

Comment

Daniel, I have the same line from Pedro--I decend from Esteban b- abt 1584 and also sister Beatriz b- abt 1572 I did not attach Juan- what is his info and who is he married to- maybe I already have him and have not attached him to Pedro. Unfortunately I could not find any more info on birth or marriage for pedro and Beatriz.

Miguel Gutierrez de la Torre
----- Original Message -----
From: M.Vallazza
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pedro de Anda-Altamirano

I'm descended from a woman whose surnames are Anda Altamirano but I
can't find my info at present. Will be back in touch later about it.
Marge:)
On Jan 3, 2008, at 9:12 PM, mormonboy74 wrote:

>
> Does anyone have more info on him or descend from this family. His was
> the son of the proignitor of the anda Surname in los Altos. I dont
> know who his father was though. He was born ca. 1565 en Guadalajara
> and married

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Here is his info: Juan de Anda-Altamirano born ca. 1595 en la villa de Lagos de Moreno de Los Altos murio Marzo 26, 1632 en Lagos. Married Dona Juana Ruiz de Nava y Guerra, nacido ca. 1599 en Lagos hija
lehitima de Alonso Lorenso Guerra, nativo de Oviedo, Asturias, Espana y de Maria Lopes de Nava y Munos, nativa y originaria de Lagos de Moreno. Se Caso en ca. 1611 en Lagos and had at least two kids, theres more but Ive been busy to further resaerch this line who are
Teresa de Anda-Altamirano y Nava and Juan (same last name). Hope this helps. I descend
from Teresa who married in to the Vasquez de Lara family. Hope this helps. Theres a Pedro de Altamirano born in Mexico City ca. 1555 maybe thats him but his wife is different and if that is our pedro he would be the grnadson of the King of Castilla.????

_________________________________________________________________
Watch “Cause Effect,” a show about real people making a real difference.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Daniel, thanks for the info. I do have it. Juan had at least 7 kids. I decend from Ana b-abt 1612 married to Alonso Fernandez de Rueda b-abt 1605 from Toranzo, Santander Espana.

Miguel Gutierrez de la Torre
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Mendez
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Pedro de Anda-Altamirano

Here is his info: Juan de Anda-Altamirano born ca. 1595 en la villa de Lagos de Moreno de Los Altos murio Marzo 26, 1632 en Lagos. Married Dona Juana Ruiz de Nava y Guerra, nacido ca. 1599 en Lagos hija
lehitima de Alonso Lorenso Guerra, nativo de Oviedo, Asturias, Espana y de Maria Lopes de Nava y Munos, nativa y originaria de Lagos de Moreno. Se Caso en ca. 1611 en Lagos and had at least two kids, theres more but Ive been busy to further resaerch this line who are
Teresa de Anda-Altamirano y Nava and Juan (same last name). Hope this helps. I descend
from Teresa who married in

Read full comment ➜

Diego Pinedo & Rodrigo de Pinedo - Jerez, Zac

Published by PINEDA37 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I found a marriage dispensation record (023 Benito Guzman & Juana Maria Rodarte / Jerez) in the late 1750s which has some information about Diego Pinedo.

Comments

Published by longsjourney – Tue, 2016-01-05 11:27 | Permalink

Comment

.
this is what I have:
~
7th Great Grandfather of Chet Castanon
.
marriage dispensation 4th degree igual between wives
..trunk. Diego Pinedo and Ana Esquivel
Maria Ana Pinedo.......1st degree
Antonia de Avila...........2nd degree
Magdalena Mejia........3rd degree
Encarnacion Pinedo....4th degree
.
trunk.. Diego Pinedo and Gertrudis Castaneda (de Avila)
Antonia Pinedo.............1st degree
Cayetano Rodarte........2nd degree
Diego Rodarte...............3rd degree
Juana Maria Rodarte...4th degree
.
marriage dispensation 4th degree
...trunk.. Diego Pinedo.. Gertrudis de Avila
Antonia Pinedo..........Joseph Pinedo..1st degre
Francisca Rodarte...Maria Pinedo...2nd degree
Ygnacio Felix............Francisca Medrano..3rd degree
Ma. Ricarda Felix.....Modesto Miranda...4th degree
.
marriage dispensation 4th degree igual
....trunk..Diego Pinedo and Ana (Mariana) Esquivel
Joseph Pinedo.............Antonia Pinedo........1st degree
Lasaro Pinedo.........Cayetano Rodarte.....2nd degree
Feliciana

Read full comment ➜

Published by PINEDA37 – Tue, 2016-01-05 11:58 | Permalink

Comment

Did you see this one too:

Rodrigo de Pinedo m. Maria de Pina

..Mathias Pinedo m. Maria Nicolasa de Abila
....Pedro Tadeo Pinedo (b. 5 Feb 1695, Jerez, Zac ) m. Antonia Gonzales
....Maria Pinedo (b. 3 Nov 1699, Jerez, Zac )

..Antonio Pinedo m. Petra de la Rocha
....Lusia Pinedo m. Marsial Gonzales
....Antonia Gonzales m. Pedro Tadeo Pinedo

Do you see any connection between Diego Pinedo and this Rodrigo de Pinedo?

Do you see any other useful information in this dispensa?

Here's the link:
Mexico, Jalisco, Catholic Church Records, 1590-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18414-22470-84?cc=1874591 : accessed 4 January 2016), Guadalajara > Diócesis de Guadalajara > Matrimonios 1733-1734 > image 88 of 288; parroquias Católicas, Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco).

Gertrudis Díaz de León (m. Juan Álvarez-Tostado)

Published by Claudia_Reynoso –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi all--

Comments

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Tue, 2014-02-18 18:02 | Permalink

Comment

The marriage year was 1708 exactly. I found the record a few years ago. When I lost a lot of information when my computer crashed and my flash drive back up was stolen in the same week I also lost the exact date. If I remember correctly it was at the very bottom of a page, and just a couple of lines. That is why everyone has missed it. I will go back this weekend and try to find the exact date. I think I may have given that information to Miggy Gutierrez so he may have the exact date.

R A Ricci

Comment

You are very welcome. I have not proven who her father's ( jose de leon) parents are.
Rick A Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: claudiacasillas@gmail.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:16:23
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gertrudis Diaz de Leon

THANKS Rick, Raquel and Lisa! Much appreciated. :)

Saludos,
Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com
www.sagradamitra.com

Comment

Hello Rick,

Did you ever find the parents of Jose Diaz de Leon, married to Antonia Delgadillo?

I believe Jose Diaz and Antonia Delgadillo are the parents of my g6, Maria Guadalupe Diaz de Leon, who was married to Francisco Diego Carrillo Lisardi. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18622-38291-32?cc=1874591&wc…

Their daughter, Maria Estefania Gertrudis Carrillo, married Andres Diaz de Leon-Duron, 25 Mar 1743: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15246-26036-84?cc=1804458&wc…

Andres Diaz & Maria Carrillo were at 3o grado and required a dispensation, which I still haven't found. Since the bride's mother is also Diaz de Leon, I assumed the 3o grado was in that line, so their shared great-grandparents would be Juan Diaz and Jacinta de Sotomayor. I couldn't find any records for these individuals to verify this, but I have found some dispensas and other records, which do support it. If you've found his parents, maybe you can confirm my

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Congratulations Manny,

I have spent many hours looking for this info and never confirmed it. I suspected but had no luck. I was right in identifying his father but never could confirm it because I thought he was from the first marriage.
I thought I was wrong and you were right when I first read your email but a couple of hours later as I was taking a shower I thought about why I had originally placed him with the first wife and came up the idea that this was another time where a dispensation incorrectly places the second wife as the mother. Many years ago I had an ancestor who was incorrectly placed by many genealogist because of faulty record. When she married her stepfather was listed as her father. Her father had died when she was young and had left another child also. It was clear that after going over all the available data that she was the biological daughter of the first husband, a Martin dell Campo, and not of her mothers second husband who had raised her. Many genealogist

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Comment

Thanks, I just need to find that dispensa for Andres Diaz and Maria Carrillo - for all I know, the 3o grado might have been through the other lines! I'm still digging for it.

Up to now, I haven't done any deep research on my Diaz de Leon lines, I have no idea who the genearca in Nueva Galicia was. I have my line starting in Pinos in the early to mid-1600s, and then move around, as you mentioned. Juan Diaz and Francisca Ortega are at the top of my tree, and the only mention I have of them is in Juan Diaz & Jacinta Sotomayor's 1648 IM, in Pinos:

I. Juan Diaz de Leon, m. Francisca de Ortega
II. Juan Diaz de Leon, m. Jacinta de Sotomayor; IM Aug 1648, Pinos: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15245-22471-68?cc=1804458&wc…
III. Jacinto Diaz de Leon, m. Sebastiana Gil de la Mancha; m. 25 Feb 1675, Aguascalientes, PN: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12446-30237-65?cc=1502404&…
IV. Andres Diaz de Leon, m. Dionicia Duron

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Comment

First. Juan Delgadilo is the son of Diego Delgadillo and Isabel Calderon. According to Mary Lou Montagna, Maria de la Concepcion de Yslas is the daughter of Francisco Gonzalez Martinez. Other genealogist have stated that she is the daughter of Bernardino de Yslas. Unless proven otherwise, I would go with Mary Lou's statement.

Second Agustina Rosa Delgadillo is also known as Secundina (Secuntina) de la Rosa Delgadillo. She was married on 28jul1692 in Nochistlan, Zacatecas.

Third, I don't have diego Delgadillos parents

Fourth I don't know Miguel Martnez de Alarcons parents. I believe that he is a peninsular.

I will keep looking and I will inform you if I find new data.
Many thanks for the appreciative comments,
Rick A Ricci

Comment

Hi Manny

I just found out that the Martinez de Alarcon family sometimes used a different variation of the name and that many were known as Ruiz de Alarcon. Hopefully this information can help us go further back on the Miguel Martinez Alarcon and Josefa Bautista de Rubalcava line.

From a couple of descriptions I found of a possible relative of Miguel Martinez de Alarcon :

"Juan Ruiz de Alarcon y Mendoza (1581-1639). Mexico. Nacio en Mexico y vivio gran parte de su vida en Espana. Era hijo de Pedro Ruiz de Alarcon y Leonor de Mendoza, ambos con antepasados de la nobleza. Estudio abogacia en la Real y Pontificia Universidad de la Ciudad de Mexico y a comienzos del siglo xvii viajo a Espana donde obtuvo el titulo de bachiller de canones en la Universidad de Salamanca. Ejercio como abogado en Sevilla (1606) y regreso a Mexico a terminar sus estudios de leyes en 1608. En 1614 volvio otra vez a Espana y trabajo como relator del Consejo de Indias. Era deforme (jorobado de pecho y espalda)

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Comment

Hello R.A. Ricci and the rest of primos

There may be some relation between the Martínez de Alarcón and the Ruíz de Alarcón but if that´s true the connection must be very far away in time because I´ve done some research regarding the Ruíz de Alarcón and so far I haven´t seen any Martínez de Alarcón appearing in this family history.

The name Alarcón effectively first appears in 1177 when Fernán Martínez de Ceballos wins the fortress of Alarcón from the moors and is Awarded "señorío" over that fortress by Alfonso VIII, but he was already a member of high nobility because he was the son of Martín Fernández de Ceballos y Armengol, descendant of the Counts of Armengol , and grandson of García Ordoñez Count of Cabra and Elvira de Castilla.
Fernán Martínez de Ceballos Señor de Alarcón married his niece Elvira Ruíz Gutiérrez de Ceballos and they had a son named Rodrigo Fernández de Alarcón whose great great grandson was Martín Ruíz de alarcón 2nd Sr. de Valverde and Talayuelas who married

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Comment

To Carlos Peredo
Thank you for the information. Just as the line that descended from Rui de Alarcon took the name Ruiz de Alarcon, I believe that some of the other branches descended from Martin de Alarcon and took the last name Martinez de Alarcon. This was easy to do as they turned their ancestors first name Martin into the last name Martinez. Martin and Rui were common names in this family.

As to the jewish blood in the Velasco family, this was not always a secret as they admitted to be descendants of the house of David. Since this was considered to be Mary's family then they were allowed to state that they came from old Christian families. One of the kings addressed this issue with a statement. I believe that a church official also made a statement concerning the descent from Mary's family, the house of David. There is a long line that shows this Spanish jewish family going all the way back to the time of Mary showing them to be from the house that claimed descent from

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Comment

Hi Rick,

I'm sorry I hadn't noticed your post earlier. I've had Miguel Martinez de Alarcon & Josepha Baptista on my backburner. I do have some of their children being confirmed 16 May 1634, when Bishop Leonel Cervantes visited Teocaltiche:

Ysabel (padrino Lorenzo Alvarez)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19046-22645-3?cc=1874591&wc=…

Mariana ( m. Petronila de Siordia)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19046-22692-24?cc=1874591&wc…

Miguel (p. Lazaro Martin)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-19046-22692-24?cc=1874591&wc…

Here's their son, Miguel Martinez de Alarcon, as notario nombrado on the IM for Juan Estrada & Margarita Ortega, 16 Mar 1659, Nochistlan (Jhoan Delgadillo-Calderon, Juan Yrungaray and Juan Rodriguez de Frias-Amaya are testigos):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-63155-17?cc=1874591&wc…

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Comment

Hi Rick,

In case you don't already have it, here's the 10 Jan 1729 dispensa for Joseph Diaz de Leon and Maria Dolores Lopez de la Cerda. This confirms that Joseph Diaz de Leon (m. Antonia Delgadillo) was the son of Juan Diaz de Leon and Jacinta Martinez de Sotomayor:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X3F6-7?i=343&wc=12512716&c…

As for the ancestry of Miguel Martinez de Alarcon, I've been looking for the first orders of his son, Miguel, which hopefully has a limpieza de sangre, but I haven't been able to locate it.

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Hello Manny,

I did not have the 10 Jan 1729 dispensa for Joseph Diaz de Leon and Maria Dolores Lopez de la Cerda that confirms that Joseph Diaz de Leon (m. Antonia Delgadillo) was the son of Juan Diaz de Leon and Jacinta Martinez de Sotomayor:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X3F6-7?i=343&wc=12512716&c…

Thank you very much for providing this final confirmation,

Rick A. Ricci

P..S. Please send me your email so that I may keep you up to date on other branches that we share that I have been working on.

Comment

Hola primos,

I found Juan Diaz de Leon registering some mines in the San Luis Potosi registry. The mines were located in Ntra Señora de la Concepcion de Sierra de Pinos, and he mentions some other miners in the area (Jorge Leal, Diego Delgado, amongst others).

Most interesting is the date: 01 Mar 1604. We had him born around 1589 (re: IM for Gines Carrion m. Antonia Perez Mojica 22 Feb 1651), but that would make him age 15, when these were registered. So, he was either born earlier than we thought, or this is his father?

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-S7DY?mode=g&i=15&wc=M…

Saludos,
Manny DIez Hermosillo

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Wed, 2011-11-16 00:00 | Permalink

Comment

Gertudis is the daughter of. Of jose diaz de Leon and maria antonia delgadillo. Maria Antonia went by numerous last names including martinez de Alarcon and Gonzalez de Islas besides Delgadillo. I have confirmed that they are all the same person. Maria Antonia Delgadillo is the daughter of Juan Delgadillo and elvira Martinez de alarcon. Juan delgadillo son of juan delgadillo and maria concepcion de islas o gonzalez de Islas Renteria. Elvira is the daughter of Miguel Martinez Alarcon and Josefa Bautista de Rubalcava. The elder juan is the son of Diego delgadillo and Isabel Calderon Orosco. Josefa is the daughjter of Matheo Runbalcava and Geronima Morales
I descend from ana's sister and brother. A friend of mine descends from ana's other marriage.
Rick A Ricci
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: claudiacasillas@gmail.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:08:45
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org

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Comment

Claudia, one source for the above info is the 19 de enero de 1727
dispensation for mg of Onofre Ruiz and Maria Manuela Alvarez (see pg 45,
last para. *Gen. de Nochistlan...*), where Gertrudis Diaz is laisted as
hija de Anotina Delgadillo, hija de Juan Delgadillo.
Raquel

MARIA ANGEL TORRES

Published by HERJOE59 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

  RESEARCHING ANY THING ON JUAN MARTIN TORRES , I CAME ACROSS ONE OF HIS DAUGHTERS MARIA ANGEL.THE RECORD IS IN ENCARNCION DE DIAZ JALISCO BAUTISMOS 1778-1802 IMAGE 132. SHE WAS BAPTIZED 2 NOV 1783.

Comments

Comment

...the full name of this rancho at the time of Maria Angel's baptism was San Antonio de Villalobos.

Austin

Ana Maria GALLAGA, mother of Padre Miguel HIDALGO

Published by Patricia_Burton –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Some details of the mother of Padre Miguel HIDALGO...

! Birth...nacio en Jururemba, Michoacan en 1731 said the Enciclopedia
de Mexico, Tomo VI, page 3114. It also said that she was an espanola,

Comments

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Tue, 2009-02-24 11:30 | Permalink

Comment

born 1731
married 15/aug/1750
died 9/apr/1762

________________________________

From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of patricia burton
Sent: Mon 2/23/2009 8:22 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Ana Maria GALLAGA, mother of Padre Miguel HIDALGO

Some details of the mother of Padre Miguel HIDALGO...

! Birth...nacio en Jururemba, Michoacan en 1731 said the Enciclopedia
de Mexico, Tomo VI, page 3114. It also said that she was an espanola,
hija de padre y madre espanolas.
Marriage...en 1750 con Cristobal HIDALGO Y Costilla said the
Enciclopedia de Mexico.
Death...murio en la hacienda de Corralejo, Gto., en 1762, said the
Enciclopedia de Mexico.

En Mexico, el apellido GALLAGA tuvo especial importancia, ya que le
correspondia al Cura Hidalgo, por su linea materna.
Los padres, de Ana Maria, tuvieron unicamente una hija. Ella
originaria del rancho de Jururemba, de donde fue llevada al pueblo

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Besides hidalgos mother being raised by grandparents and uncles which screwed up some peoples genealogies there is another mixup that was harder to catch on the villasenor side because a distinguished genealogist
did not get it exactly right and a lot of people copied his work. This genealogy (with a couple of mistakes) was even submitted to the genealogical society in Mexico city. A marriage dispensation clarifies everything and now there is no dispute. Not everyone knows about the clarification and I see the mistaken genealogy posted on the internet or in books. Some people have the correct genealogy. I believe that chart of the genealogy of the freedom fighters has the correct genealogy. From the dispensation and what I had put together of his mother's side which are some of the families of nuestros ranchos members, I have pieced his tree together and I will post it soon.
R.A.Ricci

Comment

Chantal Laurent y Martinez del Campo

I am indirectly related to Miguel Hidalgo through the Villasenor Lomelins. According to the Memorias de la Academia Mexicana de Genealogia, his mother Ana Maria Gallaga Mandarte y Villasenor was the daughter of Juan Pedro de Alcantara Gallaga Mandarte y Mora with Joaquina de Villasenor Lomelin. Joaquina was the daughter of Juan Miguel de Villasenor Lomelin and Elena Cortes Enriquez de Silva. I do not know her parentage...Juan Miguel was the son of Pedro Villasenor Lomelin and Ines Fernandez de Rincon. This last Pedro was the son of Juan de Villasenor Patino and Maria Lomelin del Olmo (again, no parentage for her - can anyone help?) Juan de Villasenor Patino was the son of Juan de Villasenor Gasca and Maria Patino and grandson of Francisco de Villasenor and Leonisia de Gasca Reus.

Another grandson of the last couple, Jose de Villasenor, maried Bernarda de Coria Lomelin, maybe daughter of Catalina Lomelin. Does anybody have any information on

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Comment

Hi, Im Daniel Méndez del Camino, I have only started to research this somewhat since I found out Hidalgo's Lomelini connection. I am fascintated by alteño genealogy, how many people we come from and so many well-known and well-researched families! So far you have the line correct as far as I see it, I was also told, Hidalgo has a total of two Lomelini connections, two maternally "de los Villaseñor" which explains the compound surname Villaseñor y Lomelini. but also on his Gallaga y Mandarte he was said to come from Carlo's daughter María di Lomelini who married a Gallaga y Mandarte. Maybe Someone know about this line? I havent really followed it. With the original Lomelini there were two Lomelini cousins who married two Villaseñor, but havent really looked at. Hope this somewhat helps for now! Keep me posted!

mendezdelcamino@live.com

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/Explore

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Hello Maria Lomelin y del Olmo was the daughter of Joseph Luis Lomelin and Maria del Olmo. Jose Luis Lomelin was a brother of Jn Carlo Domingo Lomelin, the ancestor of the lomeli of zacatecas, jalisco

I have elena cortes enriquez de silva parents, grandparents and one set of her greatgrandparents but I have information that are leading me to the other great grandparents as soon as I work on those I will release that info
Ricci

________________________________

From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of chantal51
Sent: Mon 3/16/2009 8:37 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Miguel Hidalgo's ascendance

Chantal Laurent y Martinez del Campo

I am indirectly related to Miguel Hidalgo through the Villasenor Lomelins. According to the Memorias de la Academia Mexicana de Genealogia, his mother Ana Maria Gallaga Mandarte y Villasenor was the daughter of Juan Pedro de Alcantara Gallaga Mandarte y Mora with Joaquina de Villasenor

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Comment

what time frame are you talking about and what state in Mexico?
 
Some of my research in Jalisco includes these surnames (Villasenor) but different combinations so I'm interested in the time frame.
 
Linda in Everett

--- On Mon, 3/16/09, chantal51 wrote:

From: chantal51
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Miguel Hidalgo's ascendance
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 8:37 PM

Chantal Laurent y Martinez del Campo

I am indirectly related to Miguel Hidalgo through the Villasenor Lomelins.
According to the Memorias de la Academia Mexicana de Genealogia, his mother Ana
Maria Gallaga Mandarte y Villasenor was the daughter of Juan Pedro de Alcantara
Gallaga Mandarte y Mora with Joaquina de Villasenor Lomelin. Joaquina was the
daughter of Juan Miguel de Villasenor Lomelin and Elena Cortes Enriquez de
Silva. I do not know her parentage...Juan Miguel was the son of Pedro
Villasenor Lomelin and Ines Fernandez de Rincon. This last Pedro was the son of
Juan de

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Comment

Saturday, July 25, 2009

Dear Daniel-

"Hidalgo was the first leader in the Western hemisphere to abolish slavery and distribute land to the people," stated Liz Haskell of Santa Cruz. 

This statement and others similar are what I found when checking on the Internet.  I had heard Padre Miguel Hidalgo's story before and as he is related to my husband through the GALLAGA name, I am always looking for more information.

Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego, Ca.

--- On Sat, 7/25/09, Daniel M�ndez del Camino wrote:

> From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Surnames in the 1600s
> To: "Patty Hoyos"
> Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 12:14 PM
>
>
>  Hi Bill, I putting this out there, my Latin American
> Studies teacher said that slave trade ened in Colonial
> Spanish America when the country gained independence but
> within each indiviadiual country slavery still exsisted, for
> instance Mexico didnt abolish (legally) slavery until 1920
> at the end of the

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Comment

Patricia Burton:
My brother in law is related to the Gallaga name of Padre Miguel Hidalgo, he
has asked me to help him find something on this line. I wonder if you can
help me or share the Gallaga side.
I am related to the other side.
Sylvia

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 8:58 PM, wrote:

>
> Saturday, July 25, 2009
>
> Dear Daniel-
>
> "Hidalgo was the first leader in the Western hemisphere to abolish slavery
> and distribute land to the people," stated Liz Haskell of Santa Cruz.
>
> This statement and others similar are what I found when checking on the
> Internet. I had heard Padre Miguel Hidalgo's story before and as he is
> related to my husband through the GALLAGA name, I am always looking for more
> information.
>
> Sincerely,
> Patricia Burton
> San Diego, Ca.
>
>
>
> --- On Sat, 7/25/09, Daniel M�ndez del Camino
> wrote:
>
> > From: Daniel M�ndez del Camino
> > Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Surnames in the 1600s
> > To: "Patty Hoyos"
> > Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 12:14

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Comment

Hi Sylvia, its Daniel Camino, Ill share on the Gallaga side, he descends twice from the Lomelini. The farthes Gallaga is (that Ive found)

Padre Hidalgo

Ana Ma. Gallaga y Mandarte 1731 in michoacan

Juan San pedro Alcantara Gallaga y Mandarte 4 feb 1703 in La Barca Jal

Fernando Gallaga y Mandarte abt 1670.

Ana Gallaga's mother is a carrier of the compound name de Villaseñor y Lomelini.

Joaquina de Villaseñor y Lomelini

Juan Manuel de V y L

Pedro de Villa..y Lomelini

The creators of the surname, Juan de Villaseñor and Maria di Lomelini.

hija de Luigi di Lomelini.

Sorry I dont have dates

_________________________________________________________________

Comment

Daniel tengo una acta de matrimonio de Ana Maria Gallaga y Mandarte,el acta dice que se caso en 1687 con juan José vazquez, hijo deJJuan Antonio Vazquez y Luciana Casillas, sera que ella enviudo y sa caso por segunda vez ?, o es otra Ana María Gallaga y Mandarte ?.
el documento es de tepatitlan jalisco.

¡Obtén la mejor experiencia en la web! Descarga gratis el nuevo Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/ieak8/?l=mx

Comment

Si la fecha que proporcionas es correcta entonces se trata de otra Ana Gallaga, seguramente parienta de la mamá de Miguel Hidalgo, ya que Miguel Hidalgo nació el 8 de mayo de 1757, así que tu Ana Gallaga tendría 70 años.

Yo vivo en Tejupilco que es el pueblo originario de los Hidalgo y Costilla, el próximo año publico un pequeño trabajo sobre Tejupilco y los Hidalgo y Costilla. el padre de Miguel Hidalgo fue Cristobal Hidalgo y Costilla Espinoza de los Monteros nació en Tejupilco el 13 de septiembre de 1713. Él ingresó al seminario de la Ciudad de México y debido a una conjutivitis aguda ý pérdida de visión abandonó sus estudios, una viuda rica vecina de la Ciudad le ofreció administrar una de sus haciendas en Guanajuato, y por eso es que se fue a vivir a Corralejo allá casó y procreó a sus hijos.

Por si a alguien le interesa abuelos paternos de Miguel Hidalgo fueron: Francisco Costilla Gómez de Betanzos y Mariana Espinoza de los Monteros Gómez de Betanzos (primos hermanos

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En Tepatitlán hay varios registros de personas de apellido Gallaga y Mandarte, los cuales son los mismos del cura Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
Comparte tus recuerdos en línea con quien tú desees.
http://www.microsoft.com/mexico/windows/windowslive/products/photos-sha…

Comment

No se si ustedes saben esto, pero el abuelo del cura Miguel Hidalgo, el señor Juan de San Pedro Gallaga Mandarte casó en Tepatitlán con Juana Tadea de Aceves y Gómez de Espejo el 07 de marzo de 1734 en primeras nupcias. También existe un documento de Aspirantes al ilustre y Real Colegio de Abogados de México en los que el hermano del cura Hidalgo, Manuel Hidalgo y Costilla, menciona que su abuelo materno Juan Pedro Gallaga Mandarte es natural de Tepatitlán, jurisdicción de la Barca, Nueva Galicia.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
Con Windows Live, puedes organizar, editar y compartir tus fotos.
http://www.microsoft.com/mexico/windows/windowslive/products/photo-gall…

Comment

Hello Rick

What were the mistakes in the genealogy of on the Villaseñor side of Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla? Where can the chart of the genealogy of the freedom fighters be found?

Armando

Submitted by R.A.Ricci on 26 February, 2009 - 2:39am.
Besides hidalgos mother being raised by grandparents and uncles which screwed up some peoples genealogies there is another mixup that was harder to catch on the villasenor side because a distinguished genealogist
did not get it exactly right and a lot of people copied his work. This genealogy (with a couple of mistakes) was even submitted to the genealogical society in Mexico city. A marriage dispensation clarifies everything and now there is no dispute. Not everyone knows about the clarification and I see the mistaken genealogy posted on the internet or in books. Some people have the correct genealogy. I believe that chart of the genealogy of the freedom fighters has the correct genealogy. From the dispensation and what I had put together of his

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Comment

Hello Armando. I have had to put genealogy aside for the moment because of work (teaching middle school). This winter break I will take out of storage my notes on Hidalgo. The Heroes chart was found on nuestros ranchos or another internet site. They had the correct genealogy though it lacked some info if I recall correctly. As to that mistake on the villasenor side, the prominent genealogist confused a nephew and an uncle so a lot of his chart info was correct with just minor errors that when corrected added another generation, just like the mistake a lot of people made with the Marin family.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: fandemma@gmail.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 12:08:38
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] miguel hidalgo costilla genealogy mixup

Hello Rick

What were the mistakes in the genealogy of on the Villaseñor side of Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla

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Comment

Hello Rick,

I am looking forward to the Villaseñor info since I can't find the chart mentioned. I assume the genealogist you speak of is José Ignacio Dávila Garibi and the society being Academia Mexicana de Genealogía e Historia. Miguel Hidalgo may have also been a descendant of the greatgrandparents of Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, author of Don Quixote de la Mancha. Their names were Diego de Cervantes, comendador de la orden de Santiago, and Juana Avellaneda. The connection is dependant on Leonel de Cervantes Tello being an ancestor of Miguel Hidalgo and his father, Diego Cervantes, being a son of the comendador Diego de Cervantes.

I just found a statement you had made "I descend from Juan de Villasenor Orozco and Catalina Cervantes y Lara Andrada. Catalina's grandfather, Diego Cervantes, married to Guiomar de Tello is related to the other giant cervantes family. When the two cervantes joined in a marriage there was an acknowledgement of the bride's father that they come from two

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Comment

I also read about that acknowledgement. I did a little research but got sidetracked by a couple other lines that I was working on and then work and life sidetracked me that I had to store everything. If I remember correctly, I had followed different cervantes lines and come up with possible links that could only be followed up in Spain at that time. I will try to Look through my records in late december. I only had possible leads as to how the two cervantes lines were connected. But they looked promising.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: fandemma@gmail.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgDate: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 21:33:54
To:
Reply-To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Miguel Hidalgo Costilla genealogy mixup

Hello Rick,

I am looking forward to the Villaseñor info since I can't find the chart mentioned. I assume the genealogist you speak of is José Ignacio Dávila Garibi and the society being Academia

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Comment

Estimados compañeros:

No he probado la línea paterna de don Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla, pero de los Gallaga si lo he probado muy profundamente. Ojalá puedo ayudar en alguna forma u otra. Siempre trae interés sobre la genealogía del padre de la patria. Como cualquier otro Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla le reclamo como pariente mío, por su línea materna que es alteña.

Los Gallaga y Mandarte son unas de mis familias favoritas del Obispado de Michoacán, aunque su solar novohispano no era en Guanajuato sino Ahuahulco de Mercado. Tuvieron puestos nobles y grandes oficios en la hierarchía de la Iglesia Católica, y en las fuerzas del ejército, como el padre Vicente Gallaga y Mandarte, cura vicario de Dolores a un tiempo luego en Salamanca. Y pues como sepamos familia materna del padre de la patria, en realidad hay mucho que podía de hablar sobre esta familia pero el tiempo me roba.

La Sra. doña Ana Maria Gallega y Mandarte fue bautizada 11 de

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Comment

Hola Daniel, ahorita revisando mi base de datos encontré que yo tengo como padres de Pedro Gallaga y Mandarte el esposo de Juana Lomelí a Pedro Gallaga y Mandarte y Ana Rodríguez. Y sus abuelos paternos son los que mencionas Pedro Gallaga y Mandarte y María Ibáñez de Zuazua. Pero no tengo la fuente donde tomé la información así que no estoy seguro de que la información sea verídica. Tómala con precaución.

L.C.P. Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.
Tepatitlán de Morelos, Jalisco, México.
Tel.: 3781095311
www.facebook.com/jorgeluis.ramirezgomez

Comment

I recently came across this information posted by the Government of the State of Mexico regarding a timeline of Tejupilco, a town in the same state, where the the paternal line of Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla can be traced.

Hace unos dias encontre un portal del Gobierno del Estado de Mexico donde se incluye una cronologia de Tejupilco, un poblado en ese mismo estado, donde la linea paterna de Don Migule Hidalgo tiene su origen.

Go to: http://www.tejupilco.gob.mx/contenido/index.php?option=com_content&view…, it includes some interesting information about el Cura Hidalgo's family including:

1662 Nace en este pueblo en la hacienda de Las Juntas de los Ríos: Don Francisco Costilla Gómez de Betanzos (abuelo paterno de Miguel Hidalgo).

12 Septiembre de 1713 nace en la hacienda de Las Juntas de los Ríos Parroquia de Tejupilco: Don Cristóbal Hidalgo y Costilla Espinoza de los Monteros (father of Don Miguel Hidalgo)

Junio a octubre de 1767 Miguel y José Joaquín

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Comment

Dear Armando,
please send me your line of descent from Leonel Cervantes if you want it in my book. Leonel Cervantes As you already know, I too descend from him. Boyd-bowman is correct that he has an Alvarez ancestor. This Alvarez Ancestor was born in Fez, Morroco, Africa. If you check http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/21746?page=2 you can read about this ancestor that was born in Fez, Morrocco
I Wrote about his last comments on his deathbed.

If you check some of the posts that I have made in the past week you will find some of Leonel ancestors.
Leonel also has Italian ancestors. A Few of his Italian ancestors are brothers to Catholic Popes. I Have a lot more information in my book.

I have done much research on these lines. I ran into a brickwall in the 14 th century on one line until I found a book written by genealogist/author George L. Williams. If Mr. Williams is correct, then this line is our closest blood connection to British royalty. According to Mr

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Perez from Arroyo seco "Paso de soto" Jalisco around 1700s

Published by ghostops98 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I have found : jose Calletano perez married (1754) to Maria a Magdalena chavez father of Andres perez which is married (1793) to luisa villalpando I hope someone has more information in these area th

Comments

Published by familias_bajio – Tue, 2015-12-29 00:13 | Permalink

Comment

Hello

Although, I had no luck finding additional information on Cayetano Perez and Magdalena de Chavez; I did locate some of Luisa de Villalpando's ancestry which I have added online at Wikitree: http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/de%20Villalpando-Family-Tree-23.

This is a work in progress for which the next step is to see if there are dispensas that can verify or add to this tree.

Hope this helps.
Austin Perez

Comment

thank you for the reply Austin I notice your last name is Perez mine is also Perez maybe no relation but cool. Im going to look at wikitree thanks again.

Comment

I just went to wikitree I cant seem to think are you related some how to Luisa de Villalpando only because it looks like alot of work went into researching all these people .I want to thank you for helping me on my brick wall. not to bother you Again because you helped me so much already just wanted to say on Andres Peres his father is Caytano "Calletano" Peres the "Z" in perez on most records is an "S" but I know you know this much I saw a record for Calletano Perez Father being Domingo Peres and mother being Juana Alva from Aguascalientes geting married https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-XXC3-ZY9 I could be wrong with this finding thanks again

Comment

Hi and happy new year.

My Perez line currently ends with Juan Perez de Ornelas (http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/P%C3%A9rez_de_Ornelas-3) who married the widow Leonor Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba. Leonor's first marriage was to Sebastian Perez. I tested for Y-DNA and have my results in Family Tree DNA, GEDMatch, DNA Land and also in Wikitree. Have you tested your Y-DNA?

I did find the marriage record for Jose Perez (http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/P%C3%A9rez-1597) and Maria Magdalena de Chavez and currently have them as a separate couple. They probably are the same couple since they lived around the same time but the fact that the groom is listed as Jose Perez and not Jose Cayetano makes me want to find additional confirming information. Perhaps the marriage of Jose Perez and Ines Garcia will help.

Even if we are not related though our Perez lines, we do have common ancestors through our Villalpando and Esqueda. And very likely we are also related through Chavez, Ruvalcaba, Estrada, Macias and

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Comment

...correction to my previous post. I have my Y-DNA results on Family Tree DNA and Wikitree. I also have added my autosomal DNA results on those sites and also on GEDMatch and and DNA Land.

Austin

Update on Pinedo research

Published by PINEDA37 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I've been meaning to send an email to specifically thank Arturo Ramos for some helpful suggestions that he made some years back about where best to do my Pinedo research.

Comments

Published by A_Tejano – Sat, 2014-07-12 14:27 | Permalink

Comment

I think that perhaps your Pinedo's and mine might have some relation. The farthest I have gone with that line is Juan Pinedo and his wife, Gertrudis Acuna. Both were born in the 1740's, and lived in Jerez or its surrounding area. I have not been able to find who were their parents.

Comment

Where did your find your record that Juan Pinedo and Gertrudis Acuna were born in the 1740s?

I've noticed the following Pinedo-Acuna couples having children in Jerez between 1750s to 1770s, which would suggest they were born in the 1730s or 1740s.

Juan Ancelmo Pinedo m. Margarita de Acuna
Joseph Pinedo m. Rita de Acuna
Joseph Ylario Pinedo m. Teresa de Acuna
Juan Joseph Pinedo m. Anna Josefa de Acuna

It's strange that there's so many Pinedo-Acuna couples in a town that much have been small at this time...unless these are the same people. It's frustrating that there's no other genealogy records to look at for this time period. Are there other records, perhaps city court records or other records that may have information?

Chris Pineda

Famil Search Film number 1095309

Published by iChristopher –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi Daniel,
At the top of family search, below the words Family Search, there's five subjects: RECORDS, GENEALOGIES, CATALOG, BOOKS, and WIKI -click on the one that says "CATALOG," then click on "Film/

Comments

Published by dgmiv – Fri, 2016-01-01 17:50 | Permalink

Comment

Thank you a lot Chris. I need to save your response for similar issues in the future! Daniel

Valdes/Tobar Death Record

Published by juanitahenniger –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi,

Comments

Published by victorianonavarro (not verified) – Thu, 2015-12-17 23:43 | Permalink

Comment

I've seen examples in which after a child dies, they give the same name or a similar one to a sibling. Also examples in which a parent gives the same or a similar name to children from his/her first and second marriages.
Victoriano Navarro

Comment

I appreciate the encouragement. I have found another marriage for a Pedro Valdez and a Martina Sandate that do not match the parents of my great grandfather, yea!! unforantely, the death record for Pilar age 5 mentions that the mother's name is Martina (Maetina) but doesn't not give Martina's parents names. Thank you for the taking the time to leave a message. It means the world to me. :)

Juanita Torrez Henniger

Published by longsjourney – Thu, 2015-12-17 10:33 | Permalink

Comment

.
it's not unusual for a family to name more than one child by the same name. In my family there are two sons, Juan Jose and Juan Francisco and both are sometimes called Juan. Also not unusual to name twins both the identical same name.. do no despair..
Linda Castanon-Long

Published by juanitahenniger – Thu, 2015-12-17 10:57 | Permalink

Comment

I wondered if maybe Pilar had a twin. Since, he has a set twin sisters and possible a set of twin boy/twin girl. Though, the boy/girl are listed as Maria Felipa y Santiago. Felipa later died. Have not been able to fine Santiago. I just never thought that they would use the name twice. Though that would explain the same birthdates.

Thank you,

Juanita

Dispenses for Guanajuato & Michoacan marriages

Published by SSFTREJO –
Forums
Genealogy Research

This is a bit off topic, but does anyone know if the Guadalajara dispenses have dispensations for marriages in Guanajuato & Michoacan?

Comments

Published by gpf13 – Sun, 2015-12-27 22:47 | Permalink

Comment

Jaime

Which diocesan records you look at depends when the various dioceses were erected, the time period you are interested in and from which older dioceses they were created. I have not looked at how the various dioceses of Mexico have evolved over time, however, there is a website that gives this information that may be helpful. It is "Catholic Heorarchy" at www.Catholic-Heirarchy.org

George Fulton

Comment

The Diocese of Michoacan was erected in 1536 and from it the Diocese of Guadalajara in 1548, so these records are pretty much contemporary. Thus which one to consult will depend on the location. Other changes to the Diocese of Michoacan did not happen until 1777 (with the erection of the Diocese of Linares or Nueva Leon (which was later renamed Monterrey)). The Diocese of Durango was split from Guadalajara in 1620.

Few other changes to the dioceses were not made until the mid 1800s with numerous new dioceses created.

If the diocesan records have been filmed (as in the case of Guadalajara) they should be found under the city where the cathedral is.

George Fulton

Book "Los Gutierrez del Rancho el Molino"

Published by Visitor (not verified) –
Forums
Genealogy Research

To Sergio Gutierrez Molina

Comments

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Fri, 2015-01-09 23:05 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Sergio Gutierrez Martinez,

In your book you have eleven children for Florentino de San Miguel Gutierrez y Jimenez and Maria Francisca Romo Ramirez.

I also have eleven children in my records. The issue is that you have Juana Maria as their child and you provide a baptismal record but no marriage record. I don't have her in my records but i do have as their child Merced Gutierrez where her parents are listed in the marriage record.

I wonder if Juana Maria and Merced are the same person and her name should be Juana Maria de Los Mercedes Gutierrez Romo or if they had twelve children.

Merced is an important member of this family as she is the ancestor of Santo Toribio Romo. Maria Merced Gutierrez is married to Jose Maria Gonzalez and they are the parents of Gabino Gonzalez, baptized 26/feb1831 in Jalostotitlan. This Gabino Gonzalez Gutierrez is the maternal grandfather of Santo Toribio Romo Gonzalez. This Gabino was also married to a Romo. Santo Toribio is a third cousin to my

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Comment

Great to hear you have found useful and that we share the Gutierrez de Hermosillo line. You are correct, I did miss this family of Merced, I recognized this error a few months back when a friend provided me his family tree. The tree clearly showed that the daughter of Florentino was related to Santo Toribio. I have made notes in my book to correct this missing information, as well as others that have been pointed out by my fellow genealogists and family. Hopefully in the near future I will publish a revision.

Concerning story of Emeterio Romo Gutierrez being the horse whisperer who broke Pancho Villas world famous horse, hopefully you share more information and would gladly include it in my follow up of the book, as well as other info. you mention in your comment.

Saludos,
Sergio Gutiérrez Martínez

Comment

Dear Sergio,
Just off the top of my head there are five lines that I can add to that go all the way to the present. The problem is that one of the lines may ruffle some feathers. I know a 3rd cousin of my moms that I'll call"Jose" that has a father that you list in your book. The problem is that you list this father as having a different wife. Either "Jose" is illegitimate or the wife that you have for his father in your book is not really his wife. I did his genealogy going back from his parents but never questioned him whether his parents were married when he said he did not have the date of their marriage. I do not feel comfortable asking "Jose"if he is illegitimate. There is a small chance that his father was married twice but I doubt it because I remember a story that "Jose" left Jalostotitlan when his daughter started talking to a boy that was closely related but the families didn't recognize each other because one of the families was illegitimate. When I was told The story

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Comment

Maybe I help you find "Jose" parent's marriage information. You can send me a private message with the details.

Sergio Gutierrez

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Mon, 2015-12-28 04:31 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Sergio,

It is a small world. Not only do we find relatives in the study of genealogy. we find secrets that many wish to stay hidden. This Jose de Jesus that I said belonged in the family tree does come from an illegitimate relationship. This Jose de Jesus is my first cousins father in law. I was surprised when I originally found out that he was my moms third cousin since we had never heard of him before.

When I was growing up, the Romos all knew their second and third cousins because they were all interested in the family tree. My tio Dr. Rito Romo Franco and my grandfather Don Mere Romo Franco were very close to their first and second cousins. Rito and my grandfathers father was Romo Gutierrez. That meant they also knew the children of their second cousins and would introduce them to me and other family members Through your book the secret came out why we did not know of this Gutierrez branch. Your information in your book is correct. Jose's father is listed having a

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Andres Munoz de Nava -Maria Teresa De Alba y Estrada Bocanegra

Published by migueltran –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Aguien tiene los padres de esta pareja, vecinos de San Miguel(de los Alba), casada en Aguascalientes el 5 de junio de 1719. En el registro del matrimonio no aparecen sus padres.

Comments

Published by Armando – Tue, 2010-12-21 12:45 | Permalink

Comment

Francisco Martín del Campo Lara has a Catarina de Villalobos as the daughter of Tomás Villalobos y Macías Valadez and Josefa Martín del Campo y López de La Cruz born in 1642 in San Juan de los Lagos daughter of Lázaro Martín del Campo y García and María María Vallín López de la Cruz who were married in 1627 in Guadalajara, Jalisco http://gw1.geneanet.org/index.php3?b=fcomartin&lang=es;p=catarina;n=vil… However he has with Nicolás Villalobos y Martín del Campo being the husband of Teresa Carrillo de Sandi. Her husband is Nicolás Villalobos Macías Valadez.

Armando

Submitted by R.A.Ricci on Sun, 2010-03-28 23:13.
I have verified that Catarina de Villalobos y Martin del Campo is the daughter of Josepha Martin del campo. Do you know who her father is? Josepha was born in 1691 san juan de los lagos and is the daughter Lazaro Martin del Campo and maria lopez de la cruz. I verified this through a dispensation.

R.A.Ricci

Published by mendezdetorres – Sun, 2010-03-28 18:15 | Permalink

Comment

Who are the parents of Maria Dolores Gonzalez Rubio who marriedFrancisco Antonio Munoz de Nava?
Regards,Daniel

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: migueltran@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 08:14:46 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Andres Munoz de Nava -Maria Teresa De Alba y Estrada Bocanegra
>
> Aguien tiene los padres de esta pareja, vecinos de San Miguel(de los Alba), casada en Aguascalientes el 5 de junio de 1719. En el registro del matrimonio no aparecen sus padres.
> Andres y Maria Teresa tuvieron por hijos, al menos a:
> -Francisco Antonio.- Sepultado el 6 mayo 1729, de 3 dias de edad, en Aguascalientes.
> -Francisco Antonio(otro).- bautizado abr 1737 en Aguascalientes Y casado con Maria de los Dolores Gonzalez Rubio y Lomelin, el 9 de octubre de 1768 en Santa Maria de los Lagos).
> -Joseph Joaquin.- Bautizado el 11 abr 1728 en Aguascalientes, y casado con Eufrasia -Antonia Rubio de Monroy y Martinez de Basurto el 8 de enero de 1755 en el mismo lugar

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Published by mendezdetorres – Sun, 2010-03-28 18:15 | Permalink

Comment

Who are the parents of Maria Dolores Gonzalez Rubio who marriedFrancisco Antonio Munoz de Nava?
Regards,Daniel

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: migueltran@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 08:14:46 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Andres Munoz de Nava -Maria Teresa De Alba y Estrada Bocanegra
>
> Aguien tiene los padres de esta pareja, vecinos de San Miguel(de los Alba), casada en Aguascalientes el 5 de junio de 1719. En el registro del matrimonio no aparecen sus padres.
> Andres y Maria Teresa tuvieron por hijos, al menos a:
> -Francisco Antonio.- Sepultado el 6 mayo 1729, de 3 dias de edad, en Aguascalientes.
> -Francisco Antonio(otro).- bautizado abr 1737 en Aguascalientes Y casado con Maria de los Dolores Gonzalez Rubio y Lomelin, el 9 de octubre de 1768 en Santa Maria de los Lagos).
> -Joseph Joaquin.- Bautizado el 11 abr 1728 en Aguascalientes, y casado con Eufrasia -Antonia Rubio de Monroy y Martinez de Basurto el 8 de enero de 1755 en el mismo lugar

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Published by mendezdetorres – Sun, 2010-03-28 18:15 | Permalink

Comment

Tengo otros hijos que te falta:
Maria Josepha Munoz de Nava bautizada el 23 de octubre de 1735Casilda Gertrudis Munoz deNava bautizada el 23 de mayo de 1734Miguel Geronimo el 22 de octubre de 1731
Saludos,Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850552/direct/01/

Published by migueltran – Sat, 2010-03-20 08:00 | Permalink

Comment

Daniel, I really have nothing. only is the marriage of Eufrasia, her baptism, and her parent´s marriage.

I'd appreciate if you send me some of what you have

Miguel Beltran

Published by mendezdetorres – Fri, 2010-03-19 15:15 | Permalink

Comment

Miguel, how far have you traced the Rubio de Monroy and MArtinez de Basurto y Verdin of Guadalajara?I traced it back to the early 1600s and I might have found the peninusulares of this family but need toorder some records to verify it.
Regards,Daniel
Eufracia Antonia was daughter of Miguel Rubio de Monroy and Beatriz de Noriega (Martinez de Basurto).She was baptized 2 Feb 1735 in Cocula, Jalisco.
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: migueltran@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 08:14:46 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Andres Munoz de Nava -Maria Teresa De Alba y Estrada Bocanegra
>
> Aguien tiene los padres de esta pareja, vecinos de San Miguel(de los Alba), casada en Aguascalientes el 5 de junio de 1719. En el registro del matrimonio no aparecen sus padres.
> Andres y Maria Teresa tuvieron por hijos, al menos a:
> -Francisco Antonio.- Sepultado el 6 mayo 1729, de 3 dias

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Published by Bill_Figueroa – Fri, 2010-03-19 09:30 | Permalink

Comment

Miguel,

Los padres de Andrés Muñoz de Nava fueron Diego Muñoz de Nava y Catarina de
Villalobos; y los de María Teresa de Alba y Estrada Bocanegra fueron Juan de
Alba y Estrada Bocanegra y Juliana de Villalobos [aka Juliana Carrillo].

BILL FIGUEROA

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 10:14 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Andres Munoz de Nava -Maria Teresa De Alba
yEstrada Bocanegra

Alguien tiene los padres de esta pareja, vecinos de San Miguel (de los
Alba), casada en Aguascalientes el 5 de junio de 1719. En el registro del
matrimonio no aparecen sus padres...etc.

Comment

I have some questions Bill, just to verify, I know the compound surname de Alba y Estrada-Bocanegrawas created when Jose de Alba married Maria de Estrada y Bocanegra so I assume Juan is their son?Also, do you have more info on Catarina de Villalobos who married Diego Munoz de Nava? Who arethe parents of Juliana de Villaobos aka Carrillo.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> From: bill_figueroa@usa.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:21:11 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Andres Munoz de Nava -Maria Teresa De Alba yEstrada Bocanegra
>
> Miguel,
>
> Los padres de Andrés Muñoz de Nava fueron Diego Muñoz de Nava y Catarina de
> Villalobos; y los de María Teresa de Alba y Estrada Bocanegra fueron Juan de
> Alba y Estrada Bocanegra y Juliana de Villalobos [aka Juliana Carrillo].
>
> BILL FIGUEROA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Friday, March

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Daniel,

Juan de Alba y Estrada Bocanegra WAS NOT the son of Joseph de Alba and María Estrada Bocanegra. That illustrates the danger of making assumptions based only on surnames, not actual research. He was the son of Christobal de Alba and Theresa de Estrada Bocanegra. Joseph and Christobal were brothers, and María and Theresa were sisters. That makes Juan de Alba y Estrada Bocanegra the nephew of Joseph de Alba and María Estrada Bocanegra.

The parents of Juliana de Villalobos, aka Juliana Carrillo, were Miguel de Villalobos and Antonia Carrillo de Sandi.

BILL FIGUEROA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto"
To: "Patty Hoyos"
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Andres Munoz de Nava -Maria Teresa DeAlba yEstrada Bocanegra

I have some questions Bill, just to verify, I know the compound surname de Alba y Estrada-Bocanegrawas created when Jose de Alba married Maria de Estrada y Bocanegra so I assume Juan is their

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Hi Bill,
Do you the parents of Miguel de Villalobos and Antonia Carrillo de Sandi?
Thanks,Daniel

> From: bill_figueroa@usa.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 10:55:46 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Andres Muñoz de Nava -Maria Teresa De Alba y Estrada Bocanegra
>
> Daniel,
>
> Juan de Alba y Estrada Bocanegra WAS NOT the son of Joseph de Alba and María Estrada Bocanegra. That illustrates the danger of making assumptions based only on surnames, not actual research. He was the son of Christobal de Alba and Theresa de Estrada Bocanegra. Joseph and Christobal were brothers, and María and Theresa were sisters. That makes Juan de Alba y Estrada Bocanegra the nephew of Joseph de Alba and María Estrada Bocanegra.
>
> The parents of Juliana de Villalobos, aka Juliana Carrillo, were Miguel de Villalobos and Antonia Carrillo de Sandi.
>
> BILL FIGUEROA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Daniel Mendez de Camino y Soto"
> To: "Patty

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R.A.Ricci

I have been stumped by my estrada Bocanegra lines.

Do you know the parents of Cristobal de alba and Maria estrada y bocanegra?

What about the parents of maria estrada bocanegra married to fernando gomez Hurtado de mendoza y valdivia?

a third brick wall is diego Estrada married to Sebastiana Montano Cortez de arteaga?

A fourth estrada brick wall is Pedro Estrada married abt 1664 to Andrea Becerra Rodriguez?

Number 5 is Maria estrada Bocanegra married to Andres Munoz de Nava?

Number 6 is Maria de Carmel estrada married to salvador Becerra?

Number 7 is Petrona Estrada married to Jose Esteban Tello de Orosco y Ensino?

Comment

Hi, I can help with a couple of these:

1. I think you might have an error, Jose de Alba married Maria de Estrada-Bocanegra

not Cristobal, though they were brothers, Cristobal married Teresa Flores-Rubin.

Maria de Estrada-Bocangra was daughter of Andres de Estrada-Bocanegra and

Luisa Flores-Rubin (aka. Alvarez). Luisa and Maria were sisters. Cristobal

was son of Jose de Alba and Catalina de Arenas (Marin de Penaloza).

2. I have my assumoptions on this other Maria de Estrada who married Fernando

Gomez de Mendoza and Andres Munoz de Hermosillo, since she was from Jalostotitlan

that makes her probably a grandauther of Andres de Estrada-Bocanegra.

BTW, I descend from Cortes de Arteaga too, could you help me? I have

Diego Antonio Cortes de Arteaga and Margarita Gomez de Espejo (aka. Hernandez Gamino)

They married abt 1679 in Ayo el Chico and Diego Antonio died 17 Oct 1701 in Tepatitlan.

Ihave Margarita's parents but I have not found any more info on Antonio/

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Can you clarify the parents and grandparents of andres munoz de nava and maria teresa bocanegra? Are maria teresa's parents juan de alba estrada bocanegra and juliana Villalobos (Carillo de Sandi) and are juan's parents Cristobal de alba and teresa bocanegra. Is this teresa the Flores- Rubin you speak of. If it is than where does the estrada bocanegra come from.
As to margarita gomez de espejo hernandez Velasco, I have her as the daughter of Ana gomez de espejo.
I do not have a father listed but do have ana antonia gomez de espejo married to luis antonio Salcedo in 1653 and believe it is Possible that these 2 anas may be the same person but I do not know. Ana antonia is the dotr of domingo and juana.
The gomez de espejo line descends from domingo hernandez gamino and juana gomez de espejo
Who do you have as margaritas parents? I do not have antonios parents. I have antonio as being born abt 1654 in tepa along with the same marriage date and death as you have.

Sent from my

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Andres Munoz de Nava was son of Diego Munoz de Nava and Catalina de Villalobos.
Maria Teresa DE ALBA Y ESTRADA-BOCANEGRA was daughter of Juan de Alba y Estrada-Bocanegraand Juana Carrillo de Sandi (de Villalobos). The Albas who married the Estradas about 4 couplescombined their last names, making DE ALBA Y ESTRADA-Bocanegra.
Yes, Teresa Flores Rubin is the same woman, Teresa de Estrada Bocanegra. She was daughterof Andres de Estrada-Bocanegra and Luisa Flores Rubin (Luisa being of the Flores de la Torre clan).They were vecinos of Guadalajara. Teresa used her maternal name. When she married Cristobalde Alba they compounded their names de Alba y Estrada-Bocanegra, eventhough Teresa herselfused Flores Rubin.

Margarita's father is uknown (per the baptismal records, she is also listed as Velasco) so herfather was a RUIZ DE VELASCO and her mother is Ana Gomez de Espejo. Probably, a daughterof Domingo Hernandez Gamino but there is no evidence.
I'll need to check my records but Antonio is

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Can you connect this andres estrada bocanegra to alonso estrada the treasurer? I have catarina villalobos as a daughter of josefa martin del campo. No father listed in my records.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 17:20:56
To: Patty Hoyos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] 7 Estrada Bocanegra Brickwalls

Andres Munoz de Nava was son of Diego Munoz de Nava and Catalina de Villalobos.
Maria Teresa DE ALBA Y ESTRADA-BOCANEGRA was daughter of Juan de Alba y Estrada-Bocanegraand Juana Carrillo de Sandi (de Villalobos). The Albas who married the Estradas about 4 couplescombined their last names, making DE ALBA Y ESTRADA-Bocanegra.
Yes, Teresa Flores Rubin is the same woman, Teresa de Estrada Bocanegra. She was daughterof Andres de Estrada-Bocanegra and Luisa Flores Rubin (Luisa being of the Flores de la Torre clan).They were vecinos of Guadalajara. Teresa used her maternal name. When she

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Can you share more about this Josepha Martin del Campo? What source do you have forher being the mother of Catarina (Catalina), I guess we'll have to find her father somehow.
Regards,Daniel

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Do you have any more info on andres and lucia. Where and when they married? Who their parents were? I looked for lucia in my flores de la torre database and did not find her. I did find 2 sons of andres and luisa. And possibly a third.
(1) pedro estrada flores bap. 5oct1619 and (2)andres jr. Bap. 4jul1618. The 3rd is bernardino estrada bap. 7jun1621. All baptisms in guad.
------Original Message------
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: Patty Hoyos
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] 7 Estrada Bocanegra Brickwalls
Sent: Mar 28, 2010 8:20 AM

Hi, I can help with a couple of these:

1. I think you might have an error, Jose de Alba married Maria de Estrada-Bocanegra

not Cristobal, though they were brothers, Cristobal married Teresa Flores-Rubin.

Maria de Estrada-Bocangra was daughter of Andres de Estrada-Bocanegra and

Luisa Flores-Rubin (aka. Alvarez). Luisa and Maria were sisters. Cristobal

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Are you sure that it is flores rubin. Is it possible that it is Lucia Flores Rubio?
------Original Message------
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: Patty Hoyos
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] 7 Estrada Bocanegra Brickwalls
Sent: Mar 28, 2010 5:20 PM

Andres Munoz de Nava was son of Diego Munoz de Nava and Catalina de Villalobos.
Maria Teresa DE ALBA Y ESTRADA-BOCANEGRA was daughter of Juan de Alba y Estrada-Bocanegraand Juana Carrillo de Sandi (de Villalobos). The Albas who married the Estradas about 4 couplescombined their last names, making DE ALBA Y ESTRADA-Bocanegra.
Yes, Teresa Flores Rubin is the same woman, Teresa de Estrada Bocanegra. She was daughterof Andres de Estrada-Bocanegra and Luisa Flores Rubin (Luisa being of the Flores de la Torre clan).They were vecinos of Guadalajara. Teresa used her maternal name. When she married Cristobalde Alba they compounded their names de Alba y Estrada

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I am sure, in Retonos, Mariano Gonzalez Leal lists her as Lucia Flores Rubin, there in Guadalajara he had found a capallania of the Flores de la Torre, I dont have acessto my records right now but when I get home I can check the book, Rubin is an elusivemystery to Mariano, no one really knows how Rubin tagged along the Flores de la Torre.
Regards,Daniel

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Does anybody know who the parents of Beatriz Andrada Bocanegra are? I descend from the Bocanegra from my Cervantes line but have been unable to go further on this line. Beatriz is the wife of Bernardino de Estrada "El Viejo" who is the son of Conquistador Francisco de Estrada, and grandson of Juan Sanchez de Estrada.

Thanks,
R.A.Ricci

------Original Message------
From: Daniel Mendez de Camino
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: Patty Hoyos
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] 7 Estrada Bocanegra Brickwalls
Sent: Mar 29, 2010 6:57 PM

I am sure, in Retonos, Mariano Gonzalez Leal lists her as Lucia Flores Rubin, there in Guadalajara he had found a capallania of the Flores de la Torre, I dont have acessto my records right now but when I get home I can check the book, Rubin is an elusivemystery to Mariano, no one really knows how Rubin tagged along the Flores de la Torre.
Regards,Daniel

____________________________

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I have verified that Catarina de Villalobos y Martin del Campo is the daughter of Josepha Martin del campo. Do you know who her father is? Josepha was born in 1691 san juan de los lagos and is the daughter Lazaro Martin del Campo and maria lopez de la cruz. I verified this through a dispensation.

R.A.Ricci

Comment

Rick, if your Catarina was married to Jose Gonzalez de Hermosillo on June 2, 1732, and died August 15, 1794, then her parents were Capitan Jose-Blas Perez de Paredes and Josefa Martin del Campo. Let me know if this matches your records so I can give you the rest.

MIggy
----- Original Message -----
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:13 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Catarina Villalobos Martin del campo

I have verified that Catarina de Villalobos y Martin del Campo is the daughter of Josepha Martin del campo. Do you know who her father is? Josepha was born in 1691 san juan de los lagos and is the daughter Lazaro Martin del Campo and maria lopez de la cruz. I verified this through a dispensation.

R.A.Ricci

Comment

No. This catarina was married to diego munoz de nava. Her mother was named josefa martin del campo y lopez.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Miggy GUTIERREZ"
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:41:22
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Catarina Villalobos Martin del campo

Rick, if your Catarina was married to Jose Gonzalez de Hermosillo on June 2, 1732, and died August 15, 1794, then her parents were Capitan Jose-Blas Perez de Paredes and Josefa Martin del Campo. Let me know if this matches your records so I can give you the rest.

MIggy
----- Original Message -----
From: mygenes2000@yahoo.com
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:13 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Catarina Villalobos Martin del campo

I have verified that Catarina de Villalobos y Martin del Campo is the daughter of Josepha Martin del campo. Do you know who her father is? Josepha was born in 1691 san juan de los lagos and is the

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From what Celestino Villalobos has given me and what I have gathered a few other places the parents of Miguel de Villalobos Macías Valadez are Tomás Villalobos y Pérez de Nava and Catarina Macías Valadez y Villegas and the parents of Antonia Carrillo de Sandi are Diego Carillo de Sandi and María López de Fuenllana.
The concuños were brothers and the concuñas were sisters if the info previously in this post and the previous post are correct.

Armando

Submitted by mendezdelcamino on Thu, 2010-03-25 23:30.
Hi Bill,
Do you the parents of Miguel de Villalobos and Antonia Carrillo de Sandi?
Thanks,Daniel

ALBA in Ojuelos de Jalisco and Sierra de Pinos

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hola primos y primas,

My g7's are Francisco de Alba and Maria Ygnes Ximenes, who lived on Matanzas, near Ojuelos de Jalisco, as late as 1732. They had at least 3 children:

Comments

Published by sarod77 – Tue, 2015-12-22 21:37 | Permalink

Comment

Francisco Alba Jimenez (9DQY-HQB/Familysearch.org) is said to have married Ines de Alcaraz in Retornos de Espana en la Nueva Galicia by Mariano Gonzales Leal. There was more on this particular family in the book but I did not write it down as I was just getting info on the Pedrosas and Albas. Hopefully this is correct. My notes were written like the records we try to read from the 1600's.

In looking at my notes, his grandfather Joseph de Alba Retamosa and Catalina de Arenas aka Marin de Penalosa is sister to Juan Marin de Penalosa who took care of Joseph's testament 13 Feb 1642 and passed the following year on the 24 August. Would their parents be Juan Marin de Penalosa and Ana Herrera?

Returning to your other Francisco here is his ID (MT5W-QZ4) though only Ysidoro is listed with his wife who is known as lopes, lopez Nava, Nava, and Delgado, but her parents are not known?

Comment

Hi Simona,

Great lead! Ines de Alcaraz is likely Maria Ygnes Ximenes. “Ximenes” might be her other surname. Thanks! Would anyone else have access to the Alba chapter in Retoños? Might have to wait until the next edition comes out (any word on that, Santa?).

The parents of Juan Marin de Peñalosa and Catalina de Arenas (who was married to Joseph de Alba), were Juan Marin de Peñalosa and Catarina de Arenas, who I have as daughter of Juan Gonzalez and Luisa de Cueva; Juan Marin de Peñalosa was son of Juan Marin and Elvira Juarez de Peñalosa. I think Austin Perez might have some sourced documents on this group at Wikitree.

Ysidoro de Alba was married to Juana Maria Lopez aka Juana Maria de Nava aka Juana Maria Delgado. Mostly, she used “Nava.” She was Mestiza, sometimes Coyota, born around 1706 on Palo Alto in Cienega de Mata, hija de padres no conocidos. They had at least 6 children.

Their first child was born 1733 on Palo Alto, and then they drop off the map for 7 years, reappearing

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Need translation

Published by meef98367 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

When I was in Spain some years ago I bought an "escudo" for my godfather whose surname was Perea.

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Published by RJQ – Wed, 2015-11-04 07:55 | Permalink

Comment

Perea: Vasque surname, its origin was at Beotegui, town of Ayala, judicial jurisdiction of Amurio in Avala. (They)proved their nobility in the (military) orders of Santiago 1688, Calatrava 1678 and San Juan de Jerusalen 1579, and in the Royal Chancellery of Valladolid 1784.

Coat of arms: a shield parted in two, on the first side in a golden background, two leopards in "normal" pose and colors, on the other side, in a silver background, three blue lines each with three golden coins.

Sources: Nobiliario Español- Julio de Atienza y Vicente de Cadenas y Vicent.

Now you probably know this already but for the sake of information I would mention it, this "heraldic histories" are at best just hints of the surnames history, most of them offer no real documentation for it, many were "guessed" or "supposed" by the "cronistas", many of the "casas solares" (single place of origin) are dubious, and some coat of arms are coupled with unrelated last names.

Nonetheless this makes excellent

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Thank you so much RJQ. I just now found your translation by going directly to the website since this website often doesn't send me every post to my e-mail. Yes, I realize that these "coats of arms" are hardly relevant to people with the same surnames nowadays, but people think that these businesses that make up escudos have the whole story, but in reality they relate only to one person who got the honor from the King at the time and is not transferable like royal titles are.

My young cousin in Las Cruces New Mexico has the idea that the name Perea came from Parrot from Scotland and Ireland and she even thinks she has a castle there. She is very light-skinned as is her father and grandfather and thinks she is so because she is a descendant of those folks in Northern Europe who even have a castle there that she is anxious to see. I haven't asked her yet where she got the information. I have traced her father's (my first cousin) ancestors back to Juarez in the early 1800s only to

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I belive its the same origin as perez or son of pera, in West spain they
use aos insteranoad of ez.

Zambrana
Zambrano
Zambraos
Zambraes

Jose Luis Zambrano De Santiago "El Euforia".

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 7:36 PM, wrote:

> Thank you so much RJQ. I just now found your translation by going directly
> to
> the website since this website often doesn't send me every post to my
> e-mail.
> Yes, I realize that these "coats of arms" are hardly relevant to people
> with
> the same surnames nowadays, but people think that these businesses that
> make
> up escudos have the whole story, but in reality they relate only to one
> person who got the honor from the King at the time and is not transferable
> like royal titles are. My young cousin in Las Cruces New Mexico has the
> idea
> that the name Perea came from Parrot from Scotland and Ireland and she even
> thinks she has a castle there. She is very light-skinned as is her father
> and
> grandfather and thinks she is so because she is a

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Can someone please look at this entry in the Informacion Matrimonial for Paso del Rio Del Norte for 1764, the one on the left, second one down signed by a Juan Ygnacio Provencio. I can't make heads or tales of it except for the signature, but the name is one I was looking for

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11612-87536-5?cc=1521780

Thank you
Emilie
Port Orchard, WS

Comment

Emile,

The writing is difficult to read ... all I can make out is that this person
was presented as a character witness for the marriage of one Francisco
Manuel Ruiz ... Simply states that he has known the couple since children
and knows of nothing that could impeded the marriage. He stated being what
looks like 51 years of age.

Sorry, I could not be of more help ... it is difficult to transcribe as
there are several words I just can't make out ... just was able to get the
jest of the document. Maybe someone else can get more out of it.

-Angelina-

Comment

Thank you so much, Angelina, at least you could make something of it, whereas I could not read one word of it except for the signature. I thought perhaps it was his own marriage, but now I know he signed as a witness for someone else.

Emilie

> From: angelina@markleweb.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 08:53:37 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Need Translation
>
> Emile,
>
> The writing is difficult to read ... all I can make out is that this person
> was presented as a character witness for the marriage of one Francisco
> Manuel Ruiz ... Simply states that he has known the couple since children
> and knows of nothing that could impeded the marriage. He stated being what
> looks like 51 years of age.
>
> Sorry, I could not be of more help ... it is difficult to transcribe as
> there are several words I just can't make out ... just was able to get the
> jest of the document. Maybe someone else can get more out of it.
>
> -Angelina-
>

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Emile, regarding the name Perea I totally agree with Jose Luis, maybe from the Galician-Portuguese area or Catalan since Pere was a common name there which in this case is the same as Pedro. Although not impossible, Irish-Scottish connection is rather improbable. A good guess of a name's (or its variation) origin can be done with some basic statistics, for example by checking the amount of records this name appears from the earliest data available, in websites like family search this can be done easily with the provided filters, in some cases the country/region that provides the most would likely be closer or in direct relation to where names originated, newer records don't show this pattern due to a heavy migration from the colonial times onward. Also the nature of the names themselves give hints of their possible origins.

The fair complexion is been the cause of speculation for many people in México, but the case is that there were many Spanish families that were blond, blue eyed

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