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Hi Everyone, I didn't see my first two posts here, I'm sure I'm doing something wrong. I did get a reply ( Gracias Jorge !) but have not seen my posts show up here...forgive me, I'm a rookie. First I'd like to thank Joseph for allowing me to join the site. My name is Robert Gonzalez, my area of research is Los Altos de Jalisco, specifically, Tepatitlan and "La Villa" San Jose De Basarte. My father and grandfather were born in La Villa \ SJB. My Great Grandfather, Gregorio Gonzalez is buried beneath the alter of the small church\ capilla there. I also have records of my great,great grandfather and some other family members but have hit a wall. Ultimatley I'd like to take my research all the way back to Spain to find out where my family line started. Names I'd like to research are Gonzalez, Casillas and Alonso. It seems that for at least two generations, the Gonzalez line married into the Casillas line. Any info on San Jose de Basarte would be greatly appreciated, I do have some minor info in regards to the history of La Villa but not enough to satisfy my curiosity. Thank you all, I look forward to sharing info with all of you, Robert Gonzalez ~

Comments

Second Hello \ Introduction

Comment

Hi Robert! Welcome to our group, I am glad a new member has joined, many of us will have the last names you mention. From what I have helped people, usually you need to get back about 1730 or so that's when you can connect tha massive alteño family tree back to Spain. González is very common, some of the families are González de Laris, gonzález de Hermosillo, González de Ledesma, González Ruvalcaba, González de San Román y Serrano, González del Castillo and González y Rubio. Funny thing about Alteños within 100 years all these González were related thorugh marriage and blood. Maybe you heard the saying, Esos Altos de Jalisco, donde son buenos cristianos para no regar la sangre se casan primos hermanos, I always laugh at that saying! Its funny and true. If your from Tepa, then the Casillas should be la Familia "de Casillas y Cabrera." Alonso might be Alonso de los Hinojos, but I dont know if they went all the way down there, then again the early Spanish traveled everywhere.
Have you

Gracias \ Some background on my family

Comment

Hi Daniel ! Thank you for the warm welcome ! I have not posted any files as of yet, I'm still a rookie at all this. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. My father and grandmother did tell me that the Gonzalez \ Casillas line married into each other a couple of times !, So I know that saying about Altenos is true ! Just some background, my Grandfather and his brothers moved up to Miami , Arizona to work in the mines. He contracted miners lung \ black lung and when he realized it was going to kill him, he went back to his birthplace, La Villa \ San Jose de Basarte. My father and my uncle Santiago were born there. My grandfather passed when my father was only two years old or so, he never knew him My grandmother, who was originally from Aguascalientes, moved the family back to Arizona, first Jerome, then to Bisbee..where I grew up. According to my grandmother, my grandfather's family had a large estate that the family shared, she sold off her portion to some of the family members

Gracias \ Some background on my family

Comment

There are stories that the spanish being spoken near valle de Gpe, pegueros and san miguel was ladino and was spoken because of jewish converso ancestors. they used to sing in the countryside this language that was different from the spanish spoken in mexico. Some of my uncles and aunts used to speak about this........

________________________________

From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of El Peregrino
Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 9:57 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gracias \ Some background on my family

Gracias \ Some background on my family

Comment

Robert Gonzalez That's very interesting R.A. Thanks for the info ! It's just another piece of the puzzle I'm trying to put together. I've come across some info on the conversos in Jalisco, but not alot. I know many of the early settlers \ conquistadores came from Extremadura and Andalusia, I've always wondered where the majority of settlers came from who settled in Los Altos. After reading some posts here and other books, the families inter married quite a bit and had ties to the old country...I wonder which province though....

Gracias \ Some

Comment

Contrary to what most other genealogists believe, I have in my notes that alonso perestriello signed his surname together and not Peres Toriello.. My speculation is that he is of the perestrello family from portugal and a couple generations farther back from genoa where the family italian surname was Pallestrelli. They were a jewish family with descendency to chris columbus's first wife, {some people speculate that he married his second wife in secrecy to legitimize his son but kept it secret to keep his social standing that marriage to his first wife brought him. others say he never married her} We did not descend from Chris columbus but from his perestoriello inlaws that married into the rodriguez family. They were adventurers and explorers and sailors.
Alonso Perestorello was the ancestor to the perez Farnco de Paredes family in los altos de jalisco. The franco and perez side of my family were the ones who have stories of roaming the countryside singing a slightly different

Gracias \ Some

Comment

Very interesting Rick, I'd be interested to find out just how heavily the area( Los Altos) was settled by conversos or crypto jews. There is that old saying in regards to the grandee's of Spain not tracing their roots back too far as many of them had jewish ancestry. It does not matter to me as I'd be proud of my ancestors what ever their origins. I do wonder however, how much the native Iberian blood is Semetic. I know there is only speculaiton as to where they came from, but it seems if it was North Africa or the Eastern Med. that could show as Semetic.

Gracias \ Some

Comment

there is a very interesting story of one of our ancestors being taken to court after he died for for not being a true converso (convert). He was said to be a great loving and giving catholic 6 days of the week. everybody knew that he kept the sabbath for his jewish customs. He was rich and no one touched him while he was still alive Once he was dead they put him on trial and confiscated all of his kids inhertiance. They disinterred the body and placed it on trial. It is all on record. I will look through my notes to find more details for you. I don't remember the name for sure so I won't mention it just in case I'm wrong on the first name. All the kids were poor after that.

Another case of being conversos or jews was the estrada family, the one that Inclan claims descent from a king through an illegitimate relationship. That estrada claimed what he did to throw off people on his real ancestry. he had a jewish line that was well documented through his relatives documents. That estrada

Datos por la Familia Felix

Forums

Nicolas Felix, nacido 1615 en Jerez, casado con Franca. Peralta Y Arellano 1671
|
Nicolas Felix de Arellano/Ana Carrillo Avila

Comments

Datos por la Familia Felix

Comment

Hola John:

Me podrias decir en donde puedo encontrar estos datos ,y si tu tienes algun enlace con todas estas personas?. espesialmente los dos Nicolas Felix's.Te lo boy a agradecer mucho.

Jose Luis Felix.

> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 18:22:26 -0800
> From: fromgalveston@yahoo.com
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Datos por la Familia Felix
>
> Nicolas Felix, nacido 1615 en Jerez, casado con Franca. Peralta Y Arellano 1671
> |
> Nicolas Felix de Arellano/Ana Carrillo Avila
> |
> Bartolome Felix Arellano/Catarina Chaves Carrillo
> |
> Juan Pedro Felix Arellano/Ysabel Llanos y Valdez
> |
> Marcelino Felix Tinajero/Juana Acevedo
>

Datos por la Familia Felix

Comment

Hola Jose;

Lo siento mucho pero no tengo nada de información sobre las personas en
question.
Posiblemente Emile garcia te puda ayudar con los "Olague"

Hola John:

Me podrias decir en donde puedo encontrar estos datos ,y si tu tienes algun
enlace con todas estas personas?. espesialmente los dos Nicolas Felix's.Te
lo boy a agradecer mucho.

Jose Luis Felix.

Gracias \ Some background on my family

Forums

Ricci,Just trying to clarify what you wrote. Ladino was a form of the Spanish language spoken near San Miguel? And what are "Jewish conversos?" Where there actually synagogues around there?Thanks,Luis-----Original Message-----From: "Ricci, Richard" [rricci@lausd.net]Date: 02/20/2009 03:17 PMTo: research@nuestrosranchos.orgSubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gracias \ Some background on my familyThere are stories that the spanish being spoken near valle de Gpe, pegueros and san miguel was ladino and was spoken because of jewish converso ancestors.

Comments

Gracias \ Some background on my family

Comment

Conversos were christians that had converted over from judaism. We have many ancestors who were conversos. Some secretly continued practicing their jewish faith with little remnants of those traditions contining on en los altos as family traditions after the families, children of the conversos moved futher away from judaism and into the catholic faith and traditions. Some conversos converted completely and did not pass on any of those traditions.

________________________________

From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of dexaime%40excite.com
Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 1:24 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gracias \ Some background on my family

More generations

Forums

Thanks to Maria Cortez and a volunteer at my local FHC, I now am familiar
with the value of batch numbers. I didn't locate anything on Diego Ruiz and
Catharina Perez yet, but, after too many hours online, I have probably

Comments

More generations

Comment

I just accidentally sent an unfinished email. Here is a more completed
version:

Courtesy of Maria Cortez (thanks, Maria!) and a volunteer at my local fhc, I
am now acquainted with the value of batch numbers. I have just spent too
many hours pouring through the IGI files. I didn't find my current primary
targets (Diego Ruiz and Catharina Perez, md probably early 1730s) but did
find probable suspects for other ggpts. I offer them here with the hope
that someone has them already on their database:

My 3rd ggmo, Maria Marta Rodrigues, bap 26 Oct 1814, Mexticacan, Jal.
Pts Jose Agustin Rodriguez md Maria Dolores de Jaure 30 Jan 1811,
Mexticacan, Jal.
His pts are Juan Eusebio Rodrigues and Maria Petra Soria.
Hers are Christobal de Jaure and Maria Rosalia Garcia.

My 4ggfa Jose Cornelio Lopes md Maria Gertrudis de Jesus Casillas 26 Oct
1803 in Yahualica, Jal.
His pts are Juan Baptista Lopes and Maria Lorenza Yanes
Hers are Eugenio Casillas and Patricia Garcia.

My 4ggfa Jose Manuel Gomes

More generations

Comment

I responded earlier to your unfinished emai and I believe I answers your question before you could make it. I wrote:
Jaure was an abreviation of Jauregui. Jauregui is constantly being spelled differently and abbreviated.

Rick

________________________________

From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Raquel Ruiz
Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 12:14 PM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] More generations

I just accidentally sent an unfinished email. Here is a more completed
version:

My 3rd ggmo, Maria Marta Rodrigues, bap 26

Juaregui

Comment

Jaure was an abreviation of Jauregui. Jauregui is constantly being spelled differently and abbreviated.

R.A.Ricci

Juaregui

Comment

Yo tengo linea Jauregui de Mexticacan, ojala encuentre algun pariente por aqui

Antonio Santillan Jauregui

Padres: Froylan Santillan Quesada y Maria de Jesus Jauregui Aguirre

Abuelos Maternos: J. Refugio Jauregui Jauregui y María Dolores Aguirre Jauregui

Bisabuelos: Florentino Jáuregui Mejía y Petronila Jáuregui Jiménez

Eulogio Aguirre y

Padres de Florentino parece ser Luciano jauregui y Juana Mejia

Padres de Petronila: Marcelino Jauregui y Francisca Jimenes

Seguire buscando y compartiendo

Saludos

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: rricci@lausd.net
> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:07:04 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Juaregui
>
>
> Jaure was an abreviation of Jauregui. Jauregui is constantly being spelled differently and abbreviated.
>
> R.A.Ricci

Juaregui

Comment

Yo tambien tengo la linea de Jauregui de Mexticacan. Mi abuela era Cresencia Lopez Jauregui. Su mama era Antonia Jauregui y su papa era Juan Lopez. Tambien se que el papa de Antonia Jauregui se llamaba Epifanio Jauregui y eran originarios de Encarnacion Jalisco.

Wilma

Wilma M. Gomez

----- Original Message ----
From: Antonio Santillan
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org; research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:12:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Juaregui

Yo tengo linea Jauregui de Mexticacan, ojala encuentre algun pariente por aqui

Antonio Santillan Jauregui

Padres: Froylan Santillan Quesada y Maria de Jesus Jauregui Aguirre

Abuelos Maternos: J. Refugio Jauregui Jauregui y María Dolores Aguirre Jauregui

Bisabuelos: Florentino Jáuregui Mejía y Petronila Jáuregui Jiménez

Eulogio Aguirre y

Padres de Florentino parece ser Luciano jauregui y Juana Mejia

Padres de Petronila: Marcelino Jauregui y Francisca

Mari de la pena losa

Forums

Catalina DE ARENAS Y MARIN DE PENALOSA is my 8x great-grandmother. I would be great if we could compare and share information. I would also be able to update the pedigree tree that I uploaded to my folder.Luis JAIMEdexaime@excite.com-----Original Message-----From: "R.

Comments

Catharina

Comment

I have her as Catharina and Cathalina, her mother as Cathalina only

R.A.Ricci

Catharina

Comment

Para todos los compañeros de nuestris ranchos, he estado investigando una linea de mis antepasados y me detengo con mis bisabuelos. Ellos son de Nochistlan o Mexticacan no lo se.

Abuelos: Presciliano Santillan Lopez y Micaela Quesada Islas

Bisabuelos: Regino Quesada Velasco se caso con Marcela Islas Perez

Hasta aqui he encontrado, alguien me comento que Marcela Islas era hija de Martin Islas es todo lo que tengo. si alguien sabe algo de esto se los voy a agradecer.ç

Saludos cordiales

Antonio Santillan

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: rricci@lausd.net
> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 13:13:38 -0800
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Catharina
>
>
> I have her as Catharina and Cathalina, her mother as Cathalina only
>
>
>
>
> R.A.Ricci

Yslas-Quesada

Comment

Marcela Yslas Garcia Peres nace en Mesticapan el 7 oct 1881 hija de Martin Yslas Quesada (BORN:8 nov 1858) y Toribia Garcia P casados el 11 jun 1879 en mexticacan él hijo de Eutimio yslas y ramona quesada y ella hija de German Garcia y Guillerma Peres. Leticia Reynoso

_________________________________________________________________
Es tu última oportunidad para ganar premios por el simple hecho de buscar en internet.
http://www.ganabuscando.com/Default.aspx

Marcela Yslas

Comment

Marcela Yslas Perez hija de Lorenzo de Isla y Francisca Peres Mexticacan se casa en 1828 con Teodoro Garcia él de 40 años y ella de 30.. ( ¿segundo matrimonio?)

Antonio, no loocalizo ni a Micaela ni a Regino tienes fechas? para darme una idea correcta de la fecha y lugar porque hay varios homónimos..LReynoso

> Abuelos: Presciliano Santillan Lopez y Micaela Quesada Islas
>
> Bisabuelos: Regino Quesada Velasco se caso con Marcela Islas Perez
>
>
>
> Hasta aqui he encontrado, alguien me comento que Marcela Islas era hija de Martin Islas es todo lo que tengo. si alguien sabe algo de esto se los voy a agradecer.ç
>
> Saludos cordiales
>
> Antonio Santillan

_________________________________________________________________
Comparte fotos, juega y charla en Messenger.
http://download.live.com/messenger

Marcela Yslas

Comment

Gracias por dedicar tu tiempo en ayudar a los demas

De Regino Quesada murio en 1969 en nochistlan se decia que casi tenia 100 años, de Micaela Quesada nacio en mayo 8 de 1908 y murio en 2006 en nochistlan es lo que tengo.

Gracias de antemano

Antonio Santillan

Monterrey N.L. Mexico

santillan59@hotmail.com

> From: siriuslr@hotmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 21:08:19 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Marcela Yslas
>
>
> Marcela Yslas Perez hija de Lorenzo de Isla y Francisca Peres Mexticacan se casa en 1828 con Teodoro Garcia él de 40 años y ella de 30.. ( ¿segundo matrimonio?)
>
> Antonio, no loocalizo ni a Micaela ni a Regino tienes fechas? para darme una idea correcta de la fecha y lugar porque hay varios homónimos..LReynoso
>
>
> > Abuelos: Presciliano Santillan Lopez y Micaela Quesada Islas
> >
> > Bisabuelos: Regino Quesada Velasco se caso con Marcela Islas Perez
> >
> >
> >
> > Hasta aqui he encontrado, alguien me

MOCTEZUMA, Petronila

Forums

I have just finished posting my pedigree tree from my bisabuela Ma. DELGADO to Petronila MOCTEZUMA. I've seen that Petronila has already been convered on this site. However, I wanted to know what the final consensus was on her lineage to Moctezuma. And, does anyone have that data? The file can be found at
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/filemanager/active?fid=2903

Other names in her tree are TISCARENO RUIS ESPARZA ESPINOSA MARQUEZ MOLINA NAVARRO DIAZ DELGADO. Can anyone expand on the data I have on those names that file? Thanks in advance for any help.

Luis JAIME

Comments

Petronila de Moctezuma

Comment

I have seen the statement "Petronila was acknowledged as the great-granddaughter of Moctezuma" in numerousplaces. Does any have the source of this statement, or a reference to the source, or a scan of the document where it appears?

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

MOCTEZUMA, Petronila

Comment

Daniel,Great to hear that. Please send me that file. I can't wait to update my records. I think what I'll do is keep updating that file and share it with everyone bit by bit, if it's okay with everyone?So about Petronila... She is a descendant from Moctezuma. It's just a matter of how she is?Luis-----Original Message-----From: "Daniel Mndez del Camino" [mendezdelcamino@live.com]Date: 02/17/2009 11:11 PMTo: "Patty Hoyos" Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] MOCTEZUMA, Petronila Hi Luís, this is really cool to see. Were related through her at least. I come several times from her. I can sed you a file later in the week. Anyway about that consensus, I think its impossible unless we find the lost document in Mexico City (its believed to there) in the Spanish genelaogy world no one can be exact with Petronila, even in our Ranchos group we always debate and are still seperated on different claims one says Leonor, the other says Isabel another says both Leonor and Isabel and now Pedro. Es una

MOCTEZUMA, Petronila

Comment

Hi Luís, this is really cool to see. Were related through her at least. I come several times from her. I can sed you a file later in the week. Anyway about that consensus, I think its impossible unless we find the lost document in Mexico City (its believed to there) in the Spanish genelaogy world no one can be exact with Petronila, even in our Ranchos group we always debate and are still seperated on different claims one says Leonor, the other says Isabel another says both Leonor and Isabel and now Pedro. Es una locura. I support the both Leonor and Isabel claim.

This is my claim like many other in the group and the rest of the fields of research,
here are the claims people have: I support the first one:

Petronila was know to be a bisnieta del emperador Azteca! (which one shows bisnieta?)
The first one. This had been regarded "más o menos" to be the one for now. -Daniel Camino

Moctezuma II Moctezuma II Moctezuma II Moctezuma II
Isabel

MOCTEZUMA, Petronila

Comment

Daniel,

What about this periodical?
http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/the_americas/v063/63.3schwaller…
It claims to have his children.

Luis

Daniel M�ndez del Camino wrote:
> Hi Luís, this is really cool to see. Were related through her at least. I come several times from her. I can sed you a file later in the week. Anyway about that consensus, I think its impossible unless we find the lost document in Mexico City (its believed to there) in the Spanish genelaogy world no one can be exact with Petronila, even in our Ranchos group we always debate and are still seperated on different claims one says Leonor, the other says Isabel another says both Leonor and Isabel and now Pedro. Es una locura. I support the both Leonor and Isabel claim.
>
> This is my claim like many other in the group and the rest of the fields of research,
> here are the claims people have: I support the first one:
>
> Petronila was know to be a bisnieta del emperador Azteca! (which one shows bisnieta

Llanos de Valdes

Forums

Salvador Cabral Valdes sent me the following information for those that
were asking about the Llanos de Valdes:

Registro modificado de -Pedro de Llanos de Valdes-1382

Primera generación

Comments

Llanos de Valdes

Comment

Hola

Por alguna razón no puedo modificar mi mail. Di de alta uno nuevo es gmonunez@hotmail.co
m para que me manden a este nuevo todos los correos

Sent from Memo's iPhone

On Feb 18, 2009, at 6:39 PM, Joseph Puentes wrote:

>
> Salvador Cabral Valdes sent me the following information for those
> that were asking about the Llanos de Valdes:
>
> Registro modificado de -Pedro de Llanos de Valdes-1382
>
>
>
> Primera generación
>
>
> 1. -Pedro de Llanos de Valdes-1382.
>
> -Pedro se casó (MRIN:587) -Ines Osorio Fernandez Y Garcia-1383.
>
>
> Ellos tuvieron los hijos siguientes:
>
>
> + 2 M i. -Juan de Llanos Y Valdes-1380.
>

Llanos de Valdes

Comment

These go back to Spain, I'm assuming? How'd he manage to find records as far back as the late 14th cent.??

Gertrudis Diaz de Leon

Forums

Hello to all!

Do any of you have info on Gertrudis Diaz de Leon? She was married to Juan Alvarez Tostado, son of Captian Juan Alvarez Tostado and Isabel Ramirez de Mendoza. Gertrudis is my 7th ggmother.

Comments

Gertrudis diaz de leon greatgrandparents

Comment

Diego Delgadillo and isabel calderon orosco are the parents of juan delgadillo who married Maria de las Islas (o Gonzalez de Islas).
They had a son also named Juan Delgadillo who married Elvira Martinez de Alarcon, daughter of Miguel Martinez Alarcon and
Josefa Bautista Rubalcava.
Juan and Elvira were the parents of Maria antonia delgadillo (o Martienes de alarcon o Gonzalez de Islas) She used all 3 last names and different combinations.
Maria antonia married jose diaz de leon and were the parents of gertrudis Diaz de Leon

Josefa Bautista Rubalcava was the daughter of Matheo Rubalcava and Geronima Morales
I am still buiding the case for Jose de leon's parents. I have gotten away from this investigation but have solid leads that I just need time to get back and put it all together. I actually have abundant information that needs a lot of time to properly present the Diaz de Leon family.
R.A.Ricci

Gertrudis diaz de leon greatgrandparents

Comment

R.A. Ricci quiero preguntar si tu sabes porque María Concepción Rentería, mujer de Juan Delgadillo a veces aparece como María de Islas o María González de Islas.

Y ahora que preguntas sobre la familia Díaz de León, sabes quienes son los padres de Juan Díaz de León, que nació aproximadamente en 1644 en Aguascalientes, el cual casó con la Jalostotitlense Juana Trujillo?

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
P.D. Checa las nuevas fotos de mi Space
http://home.services.spaces.live.com/

Gertrudis Díaz de León

Comment

Hola. Qué interesante saber acerca de estos datos. Gertrudiz Díaz de León forma parte de mi árbol genealógico. Ella estuvo casada con Cristóbal Chávez y entre sus hijos estuvo Doroteo Chávez Díaz de León, de quien desciendo en forma directa a través de Juan Ignacio Chávez Delgadillo, nacido el 24 de noviembre de 1824.

Yo tengo el acta de matrimonio de Doroteo Chávez y de María Delgadillo, fechada el 26 de enero de 1814 en Aguascalientes, Ags. Sin embargo, ahí establece que los padres de María Delgadillo eran José María Degadillo e Ignacia Guerra.

Aprovecho para preguntar si tienen información de los padres de Cristóbal Chávez o Christobal de Chaves, suegro de María Antonia Delgadillo Guerra, su origen y si tienen alguna fecha que me ayude para seguir investigando la genealogía de los Chávez.

Saludos.

Ricardo Chávez Ruiz Esparza

--- El jue 19-feb-09, Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez escribió:

De:: Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gertrudis diaz de leon

Renteria

Comment

Yo no sabia que a veces parece como Maria Concepcion Renteria. Mis notas y trabajo no mas la ensenan como Maria Concepcion de las Islas o Maria de concepcion Gonzalez de Islas.
Me puedes dar tu informacion donde aparece como renteria
Yo no tengo a sus padres
gracias
R.A.Ricci

Gertrudis Diaz de Leon

Comment

I have some of the information you are looking for. I have her parents names and her mothers parents and grandparents for a few generations. I have lots of clues on her fathers parents that I am still working on. I put aside the diaz de leon research for a while and I will go back to it soon. For her mother's info I will have to take a lot of time which I don't have right now but I thought I would at least make your day by letting you know that it is fothcoming. I will try to find time this week to send it.

R.A.Ricci

Tostado

Comment

I forgot to add that I could also probably enlighten you on the tostado line. Some of the misinformation actually started in Spain and repeated in many genealogy books. I can clarify some of the information on the Tostados in Spain.

R.A.Ricci

Tostado

Comment

R.A.Ricci

Gertudis Dias De Leon

Comment

Gertrudis was the daughter of Jose Diaz de Leon and Maria Antonia Delgadillo aka ma. antonia martines, aka antonia Gonzales de islas.
I am still working on jose diaz de leon, I don't have his parents confirmed yet but I have many clues and brother that I am working on. It seems as they came from aguascalientes. I cannot tell you anything more on Jose because at this point it is pure conjecture until I confirm the data that I have.
On the mother Maria Antonia Delgadillo Martines de Alarcon y Gonzalez de Islas the information is confirmed but was a little tricky to do so because she used so many different surnames. I have antonias parents grandparents , and half of her great grandparents (4 of them)that I will send to you later.
Also I want to add that on the tostado side of the family was the smartest man of his time, an albert einstein that stood up to torquemada the inquistor and defended himself to the pope. he was much smarter than either one of them. Torquemada was frustrated

http://www.raullongoria.net/Genealogy/FamilyTree/b54.html#P9646

Gertudis Dias De Leon

Comment

María Antonia Delgadillo, también conocida como Antonia Martínez de Alarcón es hija de Juan Delgadillo, según José Luis Vásquez y Rodríguez de Frías, en su estudio sobre las familias de Nochistlán, y por lo tanto nieta por la paterna de Juan Delgadillo y María Concepción Rentería.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
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Gertrudis Diaz de Leon

Comment

I was just browsing the internet when I came acroos info on all of them. Perhaps you may already have this?

Jose Carlos de Leon

Gertrudis Diaz de Leon

Comment

Thank you for the link but unfortunately they are "recent" and they had already removed the Diaz.

Gracias de todos modos. Am sure they will become handy as I trek through this branch.

Thanks!

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

What are the Geographical areas of your Zacatecas research?

Forums

Just curious as to where, geographically speaking, your Zacatecas research is located/focused. Did your families move around frequently - i.e., were they in one place for more or less than 5 or 10 years, or for generations? My father was born (1912) at Hacienda del Astillero, SW of Valparaiso, off the Valparaiso-Huejucar Highway (Mex Hwy 44). His father was born at Hacienda de Santa Monica, Sain Alto (1879), his mother at Rancho San Mateo (1887; N of Valparaiso). There is a Santa Monica north of Sain Alto, but it looks pretty desolate on the Google map of the area.

Hello to all

Forums

My name is Charles Flores and I am a new member. I am eager to expand my
research here. My focus area is Juchipila, and Nochistlan, Zac. The surnames
are Flores, Rincon, Banuelos, Godina, Ascencio, Ruiz, Figueroa, and Quezada.

Comments

Charles' Intro

Comment

Hey Charles,

I just noticed that you are researching Godina. So am I. But my family is from Colotlan, Jalisco. What information do you have on the surname? I have my files posted in the files section. Take a look and let me know if you see anything familar.

- Angie Godina

Hello to all

Comment

Hi Ana....

I am a Luna from my mothers side (Tlaltenango). Take a look at my rather
simple direct lineage that I have posted on nuestros ranchos. I have been
rather stuck on the Luna lineage.

I have finally downloaded PAF file, and all the names...just don't know how
to get up on this site.

Esperanza Villarreal Luna
Chicagoland area

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Hello to all

Comment

Welcom Charles Flores,

I am happy to see new members into this group. We have been quiet for a bit.....probably everyone is busy with life and living. My area of research also includes Nochistlan and extends into Jalpa and Rincon de Romos Aguascalientes.

Are you new to genealogy or just new to the group? Have you had a chance to peruse the member files, if not that's a great place to start. You might also want to check out the features of this site such as the films section, the resources, maps, links, photos etc.

Look forward to hearing from you regarding your research and your ancestors.

Alicia de San Jose, Calif

----- Original Message ----
From: "User176613@aol.com"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 11:01:39 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Hello to all

My name is Charles Flores and I am a new member. I am eager to expand my
research here. My focus area is Juchipila, and Nochistlan, Zac. The surnames
are Flores, Rincon, Banuelos, Godina,

Hello to all

Comment

Thank you, Alicia. I am sort of new to genealogy. I have done a lot of
snooping around on the internet with google searches and such. I plan on taking
a trip to UCBerkeley in three weeks. They purchased Mexico's documents from
the Mexican Inquisition. There are over sixty different docs. There is one
on the Flores de la Torre family's genealogy from the the town of Juchipila.
It was requested by two Flores de la Torre family members. I wonder if
there was something bad that came of it Because I have discovered the Flores
family descended from conversos from Sevilla ( sometime around siglo XIV or
siglo XV).
It was considered an incredible acquisition for the Bancroft Library. I
cant wait to learn more.
thanks again,
Charles Flores

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Hello to all

Comment

Charles,

There is a SIG group within NuestrosRanchos that went to UCBerkeley and
had a visit of their archives. Maybe some of them can give you some
ideas on what else you might find there. But regardless of that please
do take notes and if you wouldn't mind giving us a report on what you
find and how other can possibly access some of the material well that
would be great of you.

thanks,

joseph

====================

Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)

User176613@aol.com wrote:
> Thank you, Alicia. I am sort of new to genealogy. I have done a lot of
> snooping around on the internet with google searches and such. I plan on taking
> a trip to UCBerkeley in three weeks. They purchased Mexico's documents from
> the Mexican Inquisition. There are over sixty different docs. There is one
> on the Flores de la Torre family's

Hello to all

Comment

Thanks, I would love a little help. I have never been to this campus
library. I will, in turn, take notes to report about these volumes.
Charles Flores

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Hello to all

Comment

Hello Charles,

As you probably know, Hernán Flores de la Torre, encomendero de Juchipila,
married Juana de Aguilar y Salado, the daughter of Gaspar de Aguilar and
Bernarda Salado. Juana de Aguilar y Salado was born in Aguascalientes,
where her parents lived and died. An interesting twist is that Bernarda
Salado, Juana's mother, was at one time accused of being a witch by "el
Santo Oficio de la Inquisición."

I would be interested in whatever information you can find at the Bancroft
Library related to this family. Let me know if you wish to exchange some
genealogical information.

Regards,

Bill Figueroa
Dallas, Texas USA

Hello to all

Comment

Bill,
I do have him. I have him as married Oct 4, 1654. His Father was Hernan
Flores de la Torre y Figueroa. Is this part of your Figueroa line?
Yes, of course, let's exchange info.
BTW my family has Figueroa in it. I just cant remember how my father told
me. He is gone now but he distinctively talked about them as cousins or
distant cousins. They may have came to the US in the 1920's. Our family was based
in Oxnard, Ca...These relatives may have been in Santa Paula, Ca.
Charles Flores

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Hello to all

Comment

Funny, I'm in Oxnard, too. :-)

Hello to all

Comment

Hi Charles and Anna,

I am not related to Hernán Flores de la Torre y Figueroa. My Figueroa line originates from Spanish settlers who arrived in the capital city of Santiago de los Caballeros de Guatemala (today Antigua Guatemala) during colonial times, before the devastating earthquake of 1773. The capital was at that time moved to its present location.

My connection with Aguascalientes, Zacatecas and Altos de Jalisco is through my maternal family lines. My great-grandmother Josefa Frías Ruiz-de-Esparza, born in Rincón de Romos in 1848, was a direct descendant of Lope Ruiz de Esparza and other early settlers of Aguascalientes.

Lope, a native of Pamplona, arrived in Mexico City in 1593. He was a 26 years old native of Pamplona, Navarra. Shortly after his arrival in Mexico he married Francisca Gabai de Moctezuma, a daughter of Martín Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma. Lope and Francisca settled in the village of Aguascalientes, then a small hamlet with very few people. They

Hello to all

Comment

Hi Bill,
Thank you so much or all this wonderfull information.

Anna Arellano Luna

Bill Figueroa wrote:
Hi Charles and Anna,

Hello to all

Comment

I sounds like Lope, Francisca, Maria, and Pedro started something very big.
Thank you, Bill. I have included all these names into my computer. That is
great that you have discovered your line all the way back to Lope.
Muchos Gracias,
Charles Flores

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Hello to All

Comment

Hello All, first I'd like to thank Joseph for allowing me to join the site. My name is Robert Gonzalez, my area of research is Los Altos de Jalisco, specifically, Tepatitlan and "La Villa" San Jose De Basarte. My father and grandfather were born in La Villa \ SJB. My Great Grandfather, Gregorio Gonzalez is buried beneath the alter of the small church\ capilla there. I also have records of my great,great grandfather and some other family members but have hit a wall. Ultimatley I'd like to take my research all the way back to Spain to find out where my family line started. Names I'd like to research are Gonzalez, Casillas and Alonso. It seems that for at least two generations, the Gonzalez line married into the Casillas line. Any info on San Jose de Basarte would be greatly appreciated, I do have some minor info in regards to the history of La Villa but not enough to satisfy my curiosity. Thank you all, I look forward to sharing info with all of you, Robert Gonzalez ~
________________

Hello to All

Comment

Hola Robert, me da gusto que estés en este grupo de genealogía. Yo también soy de Tepatitlán al igual que tus ancestros, y conozco La Villa de San José de Bazarte, uno de los primeros poblados españoles de Tepatitlán, en el que se asentaron varias familias como los Ornelas, Gómez de Espejo, Aceves, Gutiérrez Galindo, de la Mora Hurtado de Mendoza, Becerra, etc.

Que otros apellidos buscas en Tepatitlán además del González?

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
P.D. Checa las nuevas fotos de mi Space
http://home.services.spaces.live.com/

Hello to all

Comment

Hello Charles and Bill,

I also am a direct descendant of this couple, my ancestor Ana Flores De la Torre was their daughter, she married Thomas De Luna from Tlaltenango, Zacatecas, will like to exchange info with you, my other lines are Lamas, Cortes, Arellano, Sandoval, Marin, Ulloa, Castaneda, etc.

Saludos,

Anna Arellano Luna

Bill Figueroa wrote:
Hello Charles,

I would be interested in whatever information you can find at the Bancroft
Library related to this family. Let me know if you wish to exchange some
genealogical information.

Regards,

Bill Figueroa
Dallas

Families from Tlaltenango

Comment

Hello Anna,

I just noticed your post. I am researching some of the same surnames as you from Tlaltenango. I researching Luna, Llamas/Lamas, Ulloa, Castaneda, and Miramontes plus many others. Take a look at my files if you are interested.

Good Luck on your search,
Angie Godina

My Ornelas Ancestry

Forums

Below is my Ornelas line and ancestry.

Comments

alvaro ornelas ancestry and error

Comment

I am sorry to say that both lines cannot be correct. You wrote one line showing your ancestry from the ornelas with Estefania as an illegitimate daughter of Pedro I of Portugal. The second line where you show descendency from Charlemagne has her as his granddaughter, daughter of Joao I de Aviz , rey de Portugal .
Which is the correct line and can you send me the sources because I have been unable to find estefania to correct this error. Also do you have any of the mothers in the line so I can trace them back?
If she is the daughter of Joao I de Aviz, king of Port. then is her mother Ines peres Estevez. She was a mistress of Joao I that gave her 3 children that I have in my records. I do not have estefania in there yet and not until this is clarified. This would explain the esteves in Lope esteves de Ornelas y Portugal.

R.A.Ricci

alvaro ornelas ancestry and error

Comment

No I dont remember connecting her to Pedro, she is aughter of Joao I, it is well known I got my source from Funchel (did I spell it right) The archives from Madeira, ask Steven Hernandez he is searching all of there records right now. I can send you a scan of the paragrph saying the Ornelas are of the Casa Real of Joao I. -Daniel

_________________________________________________________________
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alvaro ornelas ancestry and error

Comment

Hi Daniel,

The correct spelling is Funchal. I would also like to receive the scan of the paragraph referring to the Ornelas are of the Casa Real of Joao I.

Pat Silva Corbera
patriciacorbera@comcast.net

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel M�ndez del Camino"
To: "Patty Hoyos"
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 10:28:33 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] alvaro ornelas ancestry and error

alvaro ornelas ancestry and error

Comment

Hello Daniel,
May I also receive this paragraph at epallana@sonic.net?

Thanks!
-Esperanza

> Hi Daniel,
>
> The correct spelling is Funchal. I would also like to receive the scan of
> the paragraph referring to the Ornelas are of the Casa Real of Joao I.
>
> Pat Silva Corbera
> patriciacorbera@comcast.net
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Daniel Mï¿½ndez del Camino"
> To: "Patty Hoyos"
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 10:28:33 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
> Pacific
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] alvaro ornelas ancestry and error
>
>
> No I dont remember connecting her to Pedro, she is aughter of Joao I, it
> is well known I got my source from Funchel (did I spell it right) The
> archives from Madeira, ask Steven Hernandez he is searching all of there
> records right now. I can send you a scan of the paragrph saying the
> Ornelas are of the Casa Real of Joao I. -Daniel
>
>

ornelas source

Comment

Are these records available here in the united states? I would just like to verify the source and see what other information I can glean from them.

R.A.Ricci

ornelas source

Comment

No but you can look up there website and should have them on line. Ask Steven he know all the websites for the Ornellas family and there archives. -Daniel

funchal

Comment

I am looking at his same list on this communication where you say estefania is the illegitimate daughter of Pedro I , king of portugal on line 19.

Is Estefania's mother Joao I's jewish mistress Ines Peres Esteves daughter of Pedro Esteves and Mecia Annes

Where can I find the source and yes I would like any information that you have. I would love to have the photograph.

Please send to rricci@lausd.net and riccihome@yahoo.com

Even though I use the rricci address more I have trouble sometimes opening attachments and photographs. It is a work e-mail address and they put all sorts of blocks up to try and stop viruses.
R.A.Ricci

funchal

Comment

I can scan the actual esquema later in the week. It has a source and everything! Yes, Ines is Joao's mistress and had Estefanía who married the Lords of Ornelas. -Daniel

_________________________________________________________________
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My Ornelas Ancestry

Comment

Thank you, Daniel,

We lived in San Jose, CA from 1947 to 1997 when we retired and moved up here to the Northwest. My husband was born in El Paso, TX and I was born in Brush, CO. We'll be going to San Jose in October for my 50th high school reunion (SJ High-Class of '57), then on to Salt Lake City to do some research.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: mormonboy74
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 12:03 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] My Ornelas Ancestry

Below is my Ornelas line and ancestry.

1.Daniel Mendez del Camino b. 1992 in San Jose, California, United States
2.Jose Gabriel Mendez Cortez b. 1956 in Tamazula de Gordiano, Jalisco, Mexico
3.Martin Mendez Serrano b. 1917 in Tamazula de Gordiano, Jalisco, Mexico
4.Lucia Serrano Rubio b. 1889 in Tamazula de Gordiano, Jalisco, Mexico
5.Juan Jose Serrano Gutierrez b. 1853 in Zapotiltic, Jalisco, Mexico
6.Jose Jesus Francisco Serrano de Leon

Rubio Coat of Arms Picture

Forums

A person outside the group would like any comments on this picture:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/17482 If anyone has any a comment to
share I'll send her your message.

Una persona afuera del grupo necesita informacion de este foto:

Comments

Rubio Coat of Arms Picture

Comment

Joseph:

There is a very useful community web site dedicated to the spanish heraldry they have been very kind offering me help in the past with some pics I suggest you give this link to the person looking for info on that Coat
here is the link:
http://www.heraldicahispana.com/

I hope it works for him!!!!

Cuquio Records

Forums

Any ideas on how to access church records that aren't posted on
familysearch? I need matrimonial records for Cuquio, Jalisco that predate
1741, which is the earliest posted. I emailed the archdiocese and they

Comments

Cuquio Records

Comment

Maria, Thank you so much for pointing out my oversight! I had assumed I was
looking at listings for matrimonial records. But please educate me about
how to use batch numbers to find records. I have not been successful in
locating any extracted marriage records for this event the usual way, via
familysearch or familysearchlab. But I will be requesting the film anyway,
as I like to search through for other family marriages. Again, thanks!

Cuquio Records

Comment

Raquel,

If you are looking for a marriage record in Cuquio pre 1741 then, I believe
you'll find it in FHL INTL Film 617581 which covers Matrimonios
1711-1742,1744-1762. There are no Información Matrimonial records prior to
1741 as you stated, but those are not the records of the actual marriage.
Informacion Matrimonial contains the interview by the priest of the bride
and groom to be. The marriage event would be documented in the Matrimonios
film. Film 617581 has been extracted and you'll find most of the marriages
on the IGI. They are on batch #M604673. I hope this information will help
you.

Maria Cortez
Sacramento, CA

> From: Raquel Ruiz
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cuquio Records
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Message-ID:
> 244ea80902161513v40914488o812f805e8b2a19a3@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I seem to have poorly communicated my problem. I mean that matrimonial
> films don't seem to exist for that period, not that they

Cuquio Records

Comment

I agree with María, just because marriage records lack in an area if they have información matrimonial much earlier they can be treated as a marriage to some extent at least for information wise. -Daniel Camino
_________________________________________________________________
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Cuquio Records

Comment

>From what Ive asked family search is planning to release bit by bit on the pilot site before the final 2012 completion to the new website (the pilot will be taken off when the new FS comes out). Aguascalientes was the first actual image because it is smaller in records which I disagree its huge 400 something films but anyway. Most likely they'll release some Jalisco films soon. The church has been copying for the pilot website 3 years now. -Daniel> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:12:36 -0500> From: ruiz.raquel061@gmail.com> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cuquio Records> > Any ideas on how to access church records that aren't posted on> familysearch? I need matrimonial records for Cuquio, Jalisco that predate> 1741, which is the earliest posted. I emailed the archdiocese and they> referred me back to Cuquio. There are baptisms posted prior to 1741.> > I believe my ancestors, Diego Ruiz and Catarina Perez, were married there> in the early 1730s. I have
found

Cuquio Records

Comment

I seem to have poorly communicated my problem. I mean that matrimonial
films don't seem to exist for that period, not that they are not catalogued
or posted. I can't call for films that don't exist. According to the
archdiocese, the marriage would have occurred in the parish of San Felipe in
Cuquio. I have seen a posting for a marriage pre1741 for Cuquio on
Genealogyforum.com, but the submission is an old one and thir email is no
longer functioning. But thanks for responding.

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Daniel M�ndez del Camino
mendezdelcamino@live.com> wrote:

>
> >From what Ive asked family search is planning to release bit by bit on the
> pilot site before the final 2012 completion to the new website (the pilot
> will be taken off when the new FS comes out). Aguascalientes was the first
> actual image because it is smaller in records which I disagree its huge 400
> something films but anyway. Most likely they'll release some Jalisco films
> soon. The church has been

Cuquio Records

Comment

Raquel,
Again, I advise you to look in surrounding municipios for records prior to 1741, they probably had to travel some distance to get married.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: Raquel Ruiz
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 3:13:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cuquio Records

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Daniel M�ndez del Camino
mendezdelcamino@live.com> wrote:

>
> >From what Ive asked family search is planning to release bit by

Rocha Marriage

Forums

I was looking through a film so far today and it included a marriage of a Rocha (havent had a chance to transcribe it) in 1770. I almost skipped it but I remember
that many members have de la Rocha lines and thought it would be good to scan it.

Greetings all! Hola!

Forums

My name is Luis JAIME. After stopping my genealogy research for 11 years because of a dead end I have decided to pick it up again now that I've found this great nuestrosranchos.org web site. Something that didn't exsist back then... I don't think I can ever break through the dead end but I hope to share my research and data with other connections to my tree. There are still a few unanswered questions I have as well as some loose JAIME tree that I've yet to connect.

Comments

research

Comment

Hello Luis,
I'm so happy to finally find someone who is researching the same family names. I too am researching Galarza, Lopez, and Garcia. My family Galarza is from the mapami area as is Lopez. Garcia is from Santa Roselia. I would like to email you with questions on these names.
Lupe

research

Comment

Hello Lupe,
I am researching Garcia in Santa Rosalía de Camargo. Is this near to your
area?
-Esperanza

On 2/17/09 6:32 AM, "Lupe Kerr" wrote:

>
> Hello Luis,
> I'm so happy to finally find someone who is researching the same family names.
> I too am researching Galarza, Lopez, and Garcia. My family Galarza is from
> the mapami area as is Lopez. Garcia is from Santa Roselia. I would like to
> email you with questions on these names.
> Lupe

research

Comment

Esperanza, I too am doing research in Santa Rosalia, Camargo. 3 of my grandparents come from the area. If you'd like to contact me off Ranchos and perhaps I can do a search for you on a database I have for the area. Just give me a few names, you know the basic info. Yolanda Medina Saavedra de Perez

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Esperanza Pallana wrote:

From: Esperanza Pallana
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] research
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 9:56 AM

Hello Lupe,
I am researching Garcia in Santa Rosalía de Camargo. Is this near to your
area?
-Esperanza

On 2/17/09 6:32 AM, "Lupe Kerr" wrote:

>
> Hello Luis,
> I'm so happy to finally find someone who is researching the same
family names.
> I too am researching Galarza, Lopez, and Garcia. My family Galarza is
from
> the mapami area as is Lopez. Garcia is from Santa Roselia. I would like
to
> email you with questions on these names.
> Lupe

research

Comment

Yes, the Garcia I have is Rafaela Garcia, married to Cruz Bustamante
contact me on line so we can compare. Lupe

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Esperanza Pallana wrote:

> Hello Lupe,
> I am researching Garcia in Santa Rosalía de Camargo. Is this near to your
> area?
> -Esperanza
>
> On 2/17/09 6:32 AM, "Lupe Kerr" wrote:
>
> >
> > Hello Luis,
> > I'm so happy to finally find someone who is researching the same family
> names.
> > I too am researching Galarza, Lopez, and Garcia. My family Galarza is
> from
> > the mapami area as is Lopez. Garcia is from Santa Roselia. I would like
> to
> > email you with questions on these names.
> > Lupe
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
> >
> > To post, send email to:
> > research(at)nuestrosranchos.org
> >
> > To change your subscription, log on to:
> > http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
> >
>
>

Greetings all! Hola!

Comment

Those rolls are so bad I don't think LDS would be able to make anything from them. One of those two JAIMEs be his dad? Could be. But you and I know a "could be" is not good enough in genealogy. I spent two years going back and forth to Aguascalientes. The pastor of el Sagrario and la Catedral said the documents are all old and in bad condition. They have them all on film that LDS shot. However, they have no machines to view them on. They said they allowed LDS to shoot all of their documents with the condition they send them film readers. As of 1997 they has still not received them, nor had they been contacted by them... What Franciscan records are you talking about. The school records?I'll be forwarding my PEDROZA and ROMO data.Luis-----Original Message-----From: Daniel M-17;-65;-67;ndez del Camino Date: 02/16/2009 03:31 PMTo: "Patty Hoyos" Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Greetings all! Hola! my guess that hard film has to be transcribed it may include him, but who knows. Do you think

Greetings all! Hola!

Comment

Thanks Daniel,About Jorge JAIME... the LDS film going that far back in time for baptisms in that area is extremely hard to read and at times unreadable. And you're right. There are only two JAIME males that come to Mexico during that time period mid 1600s. They marry and one of them eventually end up in Zacatecas. I"ve found no connection to that JAIME branch other than a visit that was made by one of my 3x great grandfather in the early 1800s. (another mystery I hope to uncover)I have his marriage investigation, marriage, and death records. All say "de padres no conocidos..." I also have his extensive last will and testimony. Which also says the same. However it does say he was "creado y enterrado con el habito de Fransiscano." Since he was married and had a large family I could only guess he may have been a third order Fransiscan. I've also discovered that the Fransiscans did have the first school in Aguascalientes. The ALBAs were one of the first "wealthiest" to settle the Alteno

Greetings all! Hola!

Comment

my guess that hard film has to be transcribed it may include him, but who knows. Do you think one of the two Jaime could be his father? I guess hi might of grown up in a Franciscan Mission or santuary. My guess it might possible to visit to those places and look for him. I do know the Franciscans kept over the top records. The Albas were pretty wealthy with all of there land, a common trait for all altenos. Though a small family in the 15-1600's by the late
1600's they were huge.
I have taken the Pedroza to the 1500's they were seated and settled in Lagos de Moreno and Aguascalientes (a later main branch) from there they spread out throughout the region Mostly upper Los Altos. What is your Romo line since that seems easier, resource wise. -Daniel
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Greetings all! Hola!

Comment

Hello Luis! Wlecome to the group! I hope we can help you extend your tree. Nothing is better than knowing your roots because many people had to do alot just to create me, you and everyone else! Well it looks like you have a problem, I have some advice: If it says no padres conocidos, you can search for Jorge's baptism, if you have his name and estimated place and birth chances are there arent that many Jaimes in Los Altos in this time. I for one havent seen too many Jaimes in the 1600's very few. Or you can look for the informacion matrimonial which may include his parents Ivee seen some cases where the padres are no concidos in the acctual marriage but in the information, the priest or church official would go in town and "snoop around,"
I do know Pedroza (de la) and Alba are very common Alteno name which has been researched extensively if your in the 1600s your Pedroza line should be easy to connect. I am a Pedroza abt 5 times. So we should be related. Romo comes from Romo de Vivar

Introduction and Research

Forums

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/17221

Hello Everyone!

I have just joined the group. I have been reading some of your research work and it is quite impressive. You are all so very helpful to everyone and look forward to communicating with all of you.

Comments

research

Comment

Lupe,Glad to hear from you too. You can contact me at dexaime@excite.com-----Original Message-----From: "Lupe Kerr" [tex1@clearwire.net]Date: 02/17/2009 09:32 AMTo: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.orgSubject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] research Hello Luis, I'm so happy to finally find someone who is researching the same family names. I too am researching Galarza, Lopez, and Garcia. My family Galarza is from the mapami area as is Lopez. Garcia is from Santa Roselia. I would like to email you with questions on these names. Lupe -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List To post, send email to: research(at)nuestrosranchos.org To change your subscription, log on to: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Saludos a Francisco Sevilla y Steve Apodaca

Forums

Solo para saludarlos y estar en contacto caballeros.

Steve, te respondi el ultimo mensaje, lo recibiste? Oye, pudiste ver la informacion que tengo de la familia Apodaca en la pagina de Nuestros Ranchos? Nunca supe si lo viste o no, lo agregué ya hace tiempo y creo que te informe mediante un mail. Avisame si lo viste o no, va?

ARCHIVO GENERAL DEL ESTADO DE COAHUILA CUARTA CONFERENCIA BINACIONAL DE HISTORIA FAMILIAS

Forums

SECRETARÍA DE GOBIERNO

ARCHIVO GENERAL DEL ESTADO DE COAHUILA

CUARTA CONFERENCIA BINACIONAL DE HISTORIA FAMILIAS

FOURTH BINATIONAL FAMILY HISTORY CONFERENCE

Viernes 13 de marzo de 2009

Jalisco Reaserch

Forums

Does anyone have any films from Baptism from Ojuelos de Jalisco, Matansas Jalisco. I have ordered a film but was told that it will take up to six months to receive. I was needed records from 1885 and foward.

gedcom update assistance request

Forums

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/14003

Help! I would like to delete the gedcom I previously submitted and submit
an updated one, and can't figure out how to do that. And I am trying to
figure out how to easily weed out living people from the submission. My

I had deleted and added to my Oñate surname

Forums

Announcements and Events

Leticia Leon Morales

and thank you Joseph

Petronila de Moctezuma

Forums

I would like information on Petronia Moctezuma. She is my direct line ancestor. I have very little information on her. I am just starting my search to learn more on her and her family.

Kelly
----- Original Message ----

Comments

Petronila de Moctezuma

Comment

Hello Kelly! Some info I have on here is that she wasnt born in Mexico City, she couldnt have been. The royal lineage at least about 90% had left the capital in order to be protected. Petronila de Moctezuma, Princess of Mexico had to have been born somewhere else. It couldnt bee Aguascalientes. And Morelia wasnt found until 1579. So it must of have been Guadalajara or Durango or a place in Guanjuato that I can tremember th name of ther town it was found in 1542. Now about the Belista and Leonista contravarsy. These
papers are supposed to exist in the marriage of Petronila, she lists her genealogy to some extent. People have said she is the grandaughter of Moctezuma or the grtgrandaughter. No ones knows. She married in Mexico city, but I think she married somewhere else in el Estado of Mexico. around 1594.

This is the genealogy of the Belista beliefs.
(The people who believe she is from Isabel de Moctezuma and Hernando Cortes)

DOna Petronila de Moctezum, Princesa de Mexico 1550

Petronila de Moctezuma

Comment

Just a few clarifications.

The title or style "prince" exists in Spain only for the heir of the Crown,
being Prince of the Asturias, of Gerona and of Viana. The royal children are
titled "Infante" or "Infanta". Portugal followed a similar rule.

One thing is that people might be princes on their own because of their
belonging to a royal family (that would be the case of Isabel de Moctezuma)
and another that they have the title "Prince". Like in England, where the
royal children are princes and princesses but only the Prince of Wales and
the members of the royal family who are created a "Prince Royal" (yes, it's
confusing) actually bear that title, like princess Anne, who was made Royal
Princess by her mother the Queen.

France had "Princes of the Blood" (members of the royal family and families
connected by blood to royalty, like the Prince of Conti and the Prince of
Condé), but the heir to the crown was called "Dauphin", the royal males
"Monsieur" and the royal females "Madame"

Petronila de Moctezuma

Comment

Just a note...

I don't believe Petronila would be marrying about 1594, because that
would be about when her daughter, Francisca, should have been marrying
Lope Ruis de Esparza. Those couple's first few children are said to
have been born in the 1590s.

Of course, I haven't found hard evidence on this...but I would tend to
agree with those dates because they fit the picture. For example,
Salvador Ruis de Esparsa and Maria Vielma would have to have been born
about then to be married circa 1618.

Thanks,
Connie
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Mendez
Date: Friday, October 19, 2007 11:43 am
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Petronila de Moctezuma
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org

>
> Hello Kelly! Some info I have on here is that she wasnt born in
> Mexico City, she couldnt have been. The royal lineage at least
> about 90% had left the capital in order to be protected. Petronila
> de Moctezuma, Princess of Mexico had to have been born somewhere
> else. It couldnt bee

Petronila de Moctezuma

Comment

Youre Right! For some reason I was thinking of Francisca Gabay! or Francisca Moctezuma, some state she didnt take her fathers name? Who know we dont ave any evidence. -Daniel
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Petronila de Moctezuma

Comment

Thanks for the information. It is exciting about the indexing program. It will open up so many new avenues for us all. It wil be nice to work from home or wherever one is. I look forward to learning so much more on my ancestors.

Right now it seems that one mystery is solved and we find two more.

Kelly

----- Original Message ----
From: Daniel Mendez
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 11:41:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Petronila de Moctezuma

Petronila Moctezuma

Comment

I have researched her ancestry and looked at all the different arguements.
The first fact is that she is a descendent of Moctezuma.
The second fact is that she is listed as a princess, a title which only goes to daughters and granddaughters.
The third fact is that these two facts in combination were well regarded to be true at the time that she was still alive and that these facts were not disputed.
The fourth fact is that the latest attempts to connect her by many genealogists have mistakes in them. They confuse two leonores or overlook info.
The line that John Schmal has on the internet is incorrect. That is a fact not an opinion, and I informed him of it one day when I met him at the library in west los angeles. He thought it was open to debate. I wrote down his error but I do not have it in front of me right now. OneI mistake in a line throws the whole descendency line off.
I strongly believe that Ines Moctezuma, daughter of Pedro Moctezuma(son of Moctezuma II) is nicknamed

Petronila Moctezuma

Comment

R.A.,
As a descendant of Petronila, I would like to see any original documents that you (or any other member of the group) are aware where Petronila is identified directly or indirectly as 'princesa', or by phrases such as: 'to be of common knowledge that she is grandaughter of Moctezuma..." etc. I've read that such documentation exists, but I have never actually seen it.

Jaime

----- Original Message -----
From: "R.A.Ricci"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 3:49:34 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Petronila Moctezuma

Petronila Moctezuma

Comment

I dont think this is possible, Ines was daughter of Moctezuma not Pedro. Ines born ca. 1509 and died on November 1520.
Pedro was a half sister of Ines. He was born ca. 1511 and also died on June 1520. Many of the Aztec royals died in 1520.
I strongly support the Leonor claim but like you said people confuse this line beause there are 3 or 4 Leonor Moctezuma in the
family. One claim, Petronila is descended from Isabel and Hernan Cortes. The second, is she comes from Leonor and Valderrama and
the third is she is daughter of Leonor and Valderrama is daughter of Isabel and Hernan Cortes who is daughter of the emperor.
I have also heard of a document that had existed in the 1700s stating how Petronila is descended from Moxtezuma. But by now it may be lost
in the Archivo General de la Nacion or some old Library or in some building. -Daniel Camino
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Petronila Moctezuma

Comment

I am embarrassed to say that I did not even check my notes before writing such a definitive statement. I went back and looked over my notes. In my notes I have written down how the two Leonors are not likely to be the mothers of Petronila. I did not know about the other Leoners. My notes don’t have Ines as Petronila, but as the possible mother of Petronila. In my notes I have written down that taken into consideration what we do know about Petronila, the fact that she was considered a granddaughter of Moctezuma II, that she had been referred to as a princess, I have written in my notes that it was most likely that she was a daughter of Pedro Moctezuma.

I am sorry to everyone that took my erroneous statement/conviction to heart. I promise to refer to my notes before I make any strong statements. In my family tree I have her as the end of the branch, with no parents but with accompanying notes with directions to Moctezuma II’s tree in case it is ever proven that she is his

Pedro Moctezuma

Comment

Donald Chipman, in "Moctezuma's Children," provides some information on Pedro Moctezuma's descendants, but I do not think his treatment is complete; the subject is to broad to have been completely incorporated in his book..

His figure 4.2 shows Pedro and three of his wives, or consorts:

(1) Ines Tiacapan, the mother of Martin Moctezuma, who had no heirs
(2) Catalina Quiasichititl, the mother of Diego Luis Moctezuma (he married Francisca de la Cueva y Valenzuela: 6 children)
(3) Doña Francisca (no issue)

In the text of Ch 4 and in its note #54, Chipman refers to children of four other women: Bartolome, Lorenzo, Maria, and Magdalena. He refers to AGI, Mexico, 764, Tabla II and Reflexiones sobre la Tabla VI. Mother's names arre given in Tabla II. [AGI = Archiva General de Indias, Seville]. This may be available through PARES, but I have not looked for it.

Pedro Moctezuma left a will; and it apparently still exists, but I do not know where (perhaps in the Mexican Archives). He names

Mensaje para Alessandro Vitela

Forums

Este mensaje es para mi pariente perdido Alessandro Vitela. Espero que cheques los mensajes del foro de nuestros ranchos. Me has escrito porque no he contestado a tus mensajes, pero en realidad, te he estado enviando varios mensajes desde hace un par de semanas y no recibo respuesta. Me pregunto si recibiste el documento de matrimonio de nuestros ancestros Francisco Bonal e Ysabel Gutierres que te envie hace ya tiempo. No se si posiblemente tengas bloqueado mi email o algo. En fin, espero que leas este mensaje por medio de nuestrosranchos y podamos continuar la comunicacion.

Comments

Mensaje para Alessandro Vitela Y PARA STEVE APODACA

Comment

Oye Steve y yo que estoy solo pindado???????????//

Yo tambien soy APODACA.... e igulmente me gustaria estar en las
discuciones, estudio, etc. todo lo que se base en los APODACAS, Saludos
calurosamente dede SAn Diego California.

--- On Tue, 2/3/09, Steve G.Apodaca wrote:
From: Steve G.Apodaca
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Mensaje para Alessandro Vitela
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 4:51 AM

Este mensaje es para mi pariente perdido Alessandro Vitela. Espero que cheques
los mensajes del foro de nuestros ranchos. Me has escrito porque no he
contestado a tus mensajes, pero en realidad, te he estado enviando varios
mensajes desde hace un par de semanas y no recibo respuesta. Me pregunto si
recibiste el documento de matrimonio de nuestros ancestros Francisco Bonal e
Ysabel Gutierres que te envie hace ya tiempo. No se si posiblemente tengas
bloqueado mi email o algo. En fin, espero que leas este mensaje por medio de
nuestrosranchos y podamos continuar

para Francisco Sevilla

Comment

Que tal primo Francisco, como has estado?

Disculpa, no quise ofenderte. Lo que pasa es que le habia estado escribiendo mensajes a Alessandro los cuales no me contestaba, y tu si me contestabas los que te escribia a ti. En el ultimo le envie la ultima acta de matrimonio que habia encontrado de nuestros ancestros. Disculpa si no te la habia enviado antes, ya que la tenia guardada y olvidada y salio en la platica. Ahorita te la envio a tu email. Se trata del matrimonio de Francisco Bonal e Ysabel Gutierrez, quienes fueron los padres de Gertrudis Aniceta Bonal, la esposa de Jose Antonio Apodaca. Estoy tratando de agregar este archivo a mi pagina de nuestros ranchos. A ver si lo consigo hacer pronto, si no de todas maneras te lo envio.

Saludos desde NC,

Steve.

--- On Tue, 2/3/09, francisco sevilla wrote:

From: francisco sevilla
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Mensaje para Alessandro Vitela Y PARA STEVE APODACA
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 1:51

para Francisco Sevilla

Comment

Steve,
Nada de ofendido primo. Gusto me da que aun sigamos muestra amistad por este medio. Vi con mucha emocion la acta de nacimiento de nuestro antepasado, no sabes pero se me puso la piel de gallina tan solo en pensar en mis ancestros, imaginate ya mas de 5 generaciones de Apodacas y nos hemos encontrado por este medio ya en el siglo XXI, quien se lo huviera imaginado?

Bueno espero que siga nuestra comunicacion y me puedas hacer legar cuantas fotos, historias, anecdotas etc. tengas de los Apodacas. Como yo te comente anteriormente sali de meses de Catariana y fue como a los 20 que supe que existia una Catarina y que alla vivian mis parientes; Sevillas, Apodacas, Ocampos, Murgutias solo de ellos se que soy pariente y por desgracia nunca los conoci, solo he sabido de ellos por platicas y ahora por ti. Gracias por compartir esas historias.

--- On Sun, 2/15/09, Steve Apodaca wrote:
From: Steve Apodaca
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] para Francisco Sevilla
To: general@nuestrosranchos