Does anyone have any good resources for research in the areas of Ocotlan/Tototlan/Jamay/La Barca Jalisco? Any good book recommendations, online resources, or research tips/ideas?
My name is Josie Plascencia and I'm a new member to Nuestrosranchos. I have been researching for about a year the following surnames: in Jalisco...
Hi Josie,
Welcome to the forum! I’m surprised no one has replied yet, since there are some who are actively researching the Plasencia, but they’re likely away for the holidays. You might want to check through the NuestroRanchos archives, you’ll find various threads on the Plasencia and your other lines, maybe you’ll find your ancestors.
I do have Plasencia in my lines, but way back, in my maternals, so my research hasn’t gone passed 1700. I do know that almost every family group had a son named Pedro Plasencia, which makes it difficult!
I did a quick check on your Francisco Xavier de Rubalcava and Maria Francisca Sanchez. If you don’t already have this, here’s the dispensation for their son, Marcelino de Rubalcava, for his marriage to Anastacia Plasencia, 14 Apr 1779, Yahualica. They are are 4/4 consanguinity, being great grandchildren of siblings Miguel and Maria Gutierrez de Hermosillo, who were children of Pedro Gutierrez de Hermosillo. This will get you back a few generations
Hola Primos,
I am sharing some observations and opinions, feel free to comment or not.
•The searching is painstakingly tedious.
Q: Do I hear a no scheisse?
For the generations after 1857 have you looked at the civil records at Ancestry.com? While I have not looked at Teocaltiche specifically, the civil records have been indexed with linked images for many, if not all, communities. The birth and marriage records from Teocaltiche go to the 1920s or so, death records go later. My experience has been in Aguascalientes and some parts of Jalisco with some success. The records in the early years of civil registry can be incomplete, but improve with time, the later records being much better.
If you do not have an Ancestry subscription you can get to it at any LDS family history center. Many public libraries have a subscription as well.
As I'm sure you are aware, not all the church records have been extracted/indexed which makes research more tedious.
Best of luck,
George Fulton
welcome to the wonderful world of research. Frustration and joy in finding a record go hand in hand.
Some things come easily with Familysearch, others have to be done page by page.
Errors in surnames and given names happen often but I've found if more than one record shares a name I go with that one.
If a record has no date look at the record before and after then at least you will have the month and year.
Many times a record will be in the wrong section or year so be sure to check other records before and after it.
It takes time to learn the abbreviations.
The church kept track of nationalities but that stopped in the 1820's. Don't take the nationality as fact. I have a family with 5 children listed as Espanol, Indio, Mestiso and Mulato Libre. Don't eliminate a record because you have an Espanol family and you find an Yndio or Mulato record.
Donsella means unmarried or maiden.
I've been researching for 20 years and on occasion I find someone working in the same lines or area and we
Hola HDC,
Yes, I hate the “dicho dia mes y año” scribes, which requires flipping back the pages, until you can find the month & year. I usually curse when I see them!
I agree, there are a lot of irregularities with the church archives - and errors. I just attribute that to different notaries/scribes/parishes. I have marriage records for ancestors, in which the groom’s mother is placed where the bride’s name should be, and on others, where they give the incorrect names for one set of grandparents. For that reason, it is always best to verify with as much documentation as possible: I simultaneously track all family members in a given family group, since missing info for one sibling might appear on a record of another.
As far as info given, it changed over the years:
- Grandparents’ names don’t appear on baptism & other records until after 1800.
- On earlier marriage records, names of deceased parents are not given.
- On earlier records, surnames of lower-caste women are not given.
In
Manny,
I am amazed at the quantity and quality of your response. Thank you so very much!
I will print this out and keep it as a Reference.
You obviously are quite an experienced researcher. I knew very little of what you have so generously shared with me.
Did you accumulate all this knowledge by experience, or did you have a guide to researching in Mexico?
You don't by chance have relatives in the Teocaltiche, Jalisco area? (That would be a god send.) I do know that most of my ancestors had the misfortune of being buried in pauper graves (limosnia), so I don't know how productive Ordenes and land records will be, still worth a shot.
I use the LDS Familysearch site exclusively, and plan to take a peek at the Informacion Martrimonial entries right now.
I wonder if I need to look them up by the date of the marriage or weeks ahead, as the couple/priest were required to post banns. I'll figure it out.
Once again, you are so kind to share your expertise.
Sincerely,
Elida Gonzalez
Thank you, Elida, that’s’ very kind of you. Nope, no guide books, most of what I know I learned from other NR members, either from collaborating with them, or from reading their threads in the archives. The rest of it, is figuring things out, as I go along.
Yes, the Informacion Matrimonial was done a couple of weeks before the wedding. The archives are in chronological order, for the most part, so start from you wedding date, and work backwards. Each IM is 2-3 images, so you can leap, or use the thumbnail view, to see where the next IM begins. Saves a lot of time.
I do have lines in Teocaltiche, my Gonzalez de Hermosillo’s lived there, from the 1640’s-on. My branch moved away around 1700, so I haven’t done much active research in that parish, after that year. How far back are you, and which families are you working on?
Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo
Manny,
I've been concentrating on finding individuals as opposed to casting a wide net and seeing what I get. For example, I would go through all the deaths in a given year and search for key surnames (Gonzalez, Tejeda, Aguilera; Moran..) and I came up with several family members. Now I'm trying to find a person in a given window for example, died on 26 August 1902 at age of 6 months, so I look back to Feb. 1901.
I'm stuck in the 1800's so I have no idea about relatives in the 1600 and 1700s. My information is on Familysearch.org, where I contacted a couple of people (primos) but they don't respond feeling perfectly content to merge information into their genealogies without the bother of dealing with distant family.
I use to romanticize my ancestors and now I'm starting to think a lot about that they were only human and since some of their decendant are real hijos de sus madre's, some of them were, too.
I'm also finding branches in Aguascalientes and Zacatecas. My one relative
When I have a problem and my thinking is cloudy and overwhelmed then I cast a wide net.
I cast a wide net putting together every tiscareno on Familysearch I could find. I did not succeed. I then went on and concentrated on finding only grandparents of paternal side. I was lucky because of the civil records of San Luis that appeared in Ancestry.com (yes it may cost money but the information can be invaluable as in this case). I had search for more than 18 years. Of course nothing is that easy, it turns out my grandfather's name was guanajuato sometimes and peres other times because of the mistakes made in Villa de Reyes, SLP, Mexico. The records in Villa de Reyes are the worst I have ever encountered with mistakes on surnames. To say that my father has been known as Rodriguez Perez when it should have been Guanajuato. I then cast a wide net and searched for all guanajuatos and found a family that fit perfect except they were twins, both named Mateo. So once I searched tediously
Manny,
Just reading about you did and still have to do made MY head hurt!
I believe It takes a special type of individual to research genealogy. Often, when I speak to other people, I get comments like, "I'm really not interested in the past."
In addition, to the Interest, tenacity and problem solving skills, it takes mental gymnastics to analize and synthesize simultaneously. Our version of Luminosity.
What would you suggest to do when there is no mention of a birth in parish or civil records?
Pax
Dear Pax,
I agree with your statement "It takes a special type of individual to research genealogy...In addition to the Interest, tenacity and problem solving skills, it takes mental gymnastics to analyze and synthesize simultaneously."
It is important to remember that though it takes "special types of individuals" that there are many of us that are interested in this work and that through collaboration we can get much more work done. Though I have done my share of genealogy, it has been greatly enhanced by collaborating with others.
Sharing your work, and asking for help when you come up to a brickwall will help with the analysis and synthesizing.
Here is a story about collaboration.
I did a tremendous amount of work on a family line. About five years ago I found two genealogists, one working in Brazil, and the other in Spain, that had also done a lot of work on what I had been researching. They had also spent decades compiling information. They had not collaborated and had
Algo que también te puede ayudar mucho es buscando a los Cronistas Municipales. Yo empecé a trabajar hace poco (un año) y lo primero que se topa es la limitante de no saber geografía de la época. Buscar a los Cronistas me ayudo mucho porque me dió a entender muchos datos que no conocía. Ejemplo:
Mecatabasco: el cronista afiliado de Tabasco, Zacatecas, me contó que los libros que existen en FamilySearch son los únicos que hay en la región. Después de que los microfilmaron, el Padre encargado de la Parroquia en los años 1940s , regalo, quemo, tiro el archivo. Así sé, que no voy a encontrar más de lo que está ahí. Además cuando me topo con un rancho que no sé dónde queda le pregunto y me cuenta la historia. Todo esto ayuda cuando no conoces la región. Además es una fuente muy directa de historia y geografía. Como todos nosotros que nos dedicamos a esto, es muy gratificante que alguien te pregunte por tu trabajo. ¿Cómo los contactas? Por facebook, hablando a la Presidencia Municipal, etc
Algo que también te puede ayudar mucho es buscando a los Cronistas Municipales. Yo empecé a trabajar hace poco (un año) y lo primero que se topa es la limitante de no saber geografía de la época. Buscar a los Cronistas me ayudo mucho porque me dió a entender muchos datos que no conocía. Ejemplo:
Mecatabasco: el cronista afiliado de Tabasco, Zacatecas, me contó que los libros que existen en FamilySearch son los únicos que hay en la región. Después de que los microfilmaron, el Padre encargado de la Parroquia en los años 1940s , regalo, quemo, tiro el archivo. Así sé, que no voy a encontrar más de lo que está ahí. Además cuando me topo con un rancho que no sé dónde queda le pregunto y me cuenta la historia. Todo esto ayuda cuando no conoces la región. Además es una fuente muy directa de historia y geografía. Como todos nosotros que nos dedicamos a esto, es muy gratificante que alguien te pregunte por tu trabajo. ¿Cómo los contactas? Por facebook, hablando a la Presidencia Municipal, etc
Linda,
Thank you for taking the time and effort to respond to my post. I thought I was being obtuse searching page by page, but now it seems to be par for the course. Hopefully, I can connect with someone who is also interested in the towns mentioned for my relatives. I also find myself having to correct records because I am only now realizing that there is: country, state, region, town, parish,incorporated towns within towns, and neighborhoods. All I was listing was the town.
Cheers,
Elida Gonzalez Dobropolski
Me encontre esta Fe de Matrimonio de septiembre de 1644 en San Pedro Apostol,Nombre De Dios,Durango para Antonio Sanches De Aldana y Luisa De La Rua.
There is a place called Santa Barbara in Durango near the bottom of Durango and a place called Santa Barbara in Chihuahua near the top of Durango, so it would be one of those places. But Nombre de Dios is closer to Santa Barbara, Durango, so it's probly that one.
Danny C. Alonso
Muchas gracias Danny! I thought so, but I was not sure...
Hola , existe alguna propuesta de proyecto para estudios de ADN, con precio especial para éste próximo 2017, gracias
En FTDNA tienen un descuento hasta el 31 de diciembre y hay cupones en http://bit.ly/2hBCSG5 que baja el precio aún mas. Hay un proyecto de la región en cual nos gustaría que te unieras ya que hayas comprado una prueba de FTDNA. El proyecto se encuentra en https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/nueva-galicia-dna/about
La página para comprar las pruebas y unirte al proyecto a la vez se encuentra en https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=NuevaGaliciaDNA
Hay una opción para llenar el código del cupón después de hacer clic en Order Now en uno de las pruebas.
Si vives en México es recomendado enviar la muestra en el correo mexicano y no en estafeta o paquetería.
Saludos,
Armando
Armando, ¿una vez que recibo la muestra recomiendas qué se envie por Correos Mexicanos y no por DHL?
Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
on this marriage for Claudio colunga can someon tell me what the word is
after claudio's first name. it looks like obpo.
hello Dany
it's Claudio Obispo ,it's only a name. means Bishop , it means that Claudio was named after the saint San Claudio Obispo
Julieta
----Message d'origine----
De : dcalonso97@gmail.com
Date : 16/12/2016 - 15:53 (EO)
À : research@nuestrosranchos.org
Objet : [Nuestros Ranchos] Claudio Colunga
Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
on this marriage for Claudio colunga can someon tell me what the word is
after claudio's first name. it looks like obpo. it's also after the first
name of the father of the bride.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GGGS-FSV
Danny C. Alonso
Thank you Julieta. I appreciate your help
Danny C. Alonso
On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:54 AM julievalens@bluewin.ch <
julievalens@bluewin.ch> wrote:
> hello Dany
>
> it's Claudio Obispo ,it's only a name. means Bishop , it means that
> Claudio was named after the saint San Claudio Obispo
>
>
>
> Julieta
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----Message d'origine----
>
> De : dcalonso97@gmail.com
>
> Date : 16/12/2016 - 15:53 (EO)
>
> À : research@nuestrosranchos.org
>
> Objet : [Nuestros Ranchos] Claudio Colunga
>
>
>
> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
>
>
> on this marriage for Claudio colunga can someon tell me what the word is
>
> after claudio's first name. it looks like obpo. it's also after the first
>
> name of the father of the bride.
>
>
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GGGS-FSV
>
>
>
> Danny C. Alonso
>
Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
Does anyone have any information on Onofre de Villalobos that was married
to Isabel Carrillo? They were probly born around 1730.
Danny, the Onofre de Villalobos in the index that George mentioned is a different Onofre. The one that you are looking for was the son of Diego de Villalobos y Macías Valadez and Ana Jiménez Carrillo.
Jalpa, Zac. Octubre 9 de 1717.- Exp 97.- Dispensa de Banas.- Onofre de Villalobos, español de 36 anos de edad, vecino de la Estanzuela. Feligresia de Aguascalientes, hijo legitimo de Diego Villalobos, difunto y Ana Jimenez espanoles: con Isabel de Artega, de 24 anos de edad, hija legitima de Lazaro Vasquez y de Maria Carrillo, difunta, mulatos vecinos de la juridiccion de Jalpa.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6LZ9-F
This other dispensa that was found in the document that Mary Lou Montagna has thankfully shared is helpful with the ancestry of Ana Jiménez Carrillo.
G-168376 Jun 1755 Aguascalientes
Juan de Villalobos, esp, nat y vec de Aguascalientes
HL Onofre de Villalobos y Isabel Carrillo
Con Catarina Rosalia Lechuga, esp, 27a, de Aguascalientes
HL Miguel Lechuga y
Dear Armando and Mary Lou,
Excellent work straightening out this Villalobos Carrillo family tree.
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
Danny
Check the matrimonial investigation indices for Aguacalientes that I posted here at NR. They are in the Files, Reference Material area of NR. The indices go to about 1740, with a few later records that were included in the volumes dated abt 1740 and before.
George Fulton
Hello Danny,
Here is their son's death record.
Juan de Villalobos
Event Type Death
Event Place Asunción de María, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico
Gender Male
Marital Status Married
Burial Date 03 Aug 1786
Father's Name Onofre Villalobos
Mother's Name Isabel Carillo
Spouse's Name Rosalia Lechuga
Citing this Record
México, Aguascalientes, registros parroquiales, 1620-1962, database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N86Y-L49 : 27 July 2015), Onofre Villalobos in entry for Juan de Villalobos, ; citing Death, Asunción de María, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes, Mexico, parroquias Católicas, Aguascalientes (Catholic church parishes, Aguascalientes
Maybe you can find clues here.
Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
Mr. Ricci,
thank you for the record, thats actually where i got their name from. but im trying to find out the parents of Onofre villalobos or Isabel Carrillo. I actually found the marriage of their daughter so I think Onofre de Villalobos an Isabel Carillo were born closer to the late 1690s.
Estimados primos!!
Estoy en busca de un cupon de descuento para las pruebas de ADN de familythreeDNA.
Si alguien pudiera ser tan amable de proporcionarme un código se los agradeceria mcuho.
Hola Isabel,
Hay un montón de codigos de cupones de FTDNA en la página http://bit.ly/2gJfnKa Hicieron la página para poder compartir los cupones.
Si no lo has hecho espero que tambien vas a participar en el proyecto Nueva Galicia DNA en https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/nueva-galicia-dna/about/background Solo hay que hacer clic en join para cada persona que se va hacer una prueba de ADN.
Saludos
Armando
Armando muchas gracias!!! Rdorigues De Frías me paso cupones y en una oportunidad me pongo a explorar la página para unirme al proyecto... A ver que tal nos va... estoy algo nerviosa :D
Isabel, muchas gracias por considerar unirte al proyecto. Por curiosidad ¿Cuales pruebas vas a comprar? En mi opinion es bastante divertido conocer el ADN de uno, la familia, los parientes, y la gente de la región sea microregión como Los Altos o macroregión como Aguas, Jalisco, y Zacatecas sin importar el tipo de prueba. Pero las que dan mas información son las mas fiables.
Armando, you've mentioned a Proyecto, what is it and to what end does it seek? Are both females and males included in the Proyecto? Thanks, sounds interesting.
Simona
Hello Simona. The project is so that we can see the Y-DNA and mtDNA results of different ancestors of ours. You can also join if you have had a Family Finder test but we haven't implemented a way to share the results of participants. It is also useful for people to see if a person has tested and doesn't have a match but sees that people with the same surname have been tested then their lineage is possibly from a different ancestor than the surname or ancestor that they have in their genealogy or the other way around or if the surname is not in the list there is a possibility that they are descendants of the first family in the region with the surname. The exact situation in the first two examples can be determined when enough distant cousins with documented ancestry have tested. That has already happened several times. There are still a lot of surnames that are investigated in this forum that are missing so we need as many people that are willing to participate to do so but there are
I have taken a test with ancestry.com (is this what you call familyfinder?). I would now like my brother to take the Y-DNA37 (cheapest). I am also thinking of doing the mtDNA.
Here is first reason, I have a 4th greatgrandfather named Domingo Lopes (padres no conocidos) married in Aguascalientes to Clara Antonia de Esparsa (Padres no conocidos)
when Domingo and Clara's daughter marries in 1778 she uses the full name Lopes de la Fuente y Nava.
Clara most likely is a Ruiz de Esparsa and then possibly not.
2nd reason, I have not been able to find the fountain of which my Rodriguez springs from. Rodriguez and Delgado's (I have as grandparents) have a history of marrying to each other's family. I just have not found Juan Manuel Rodriguez married to Petra Alonso married around 1779 possibly aguas or pinos.
So if I understand correctly, your project is to find matches of DNA with the surnames in the area of Jalisco, Zacatecas, Aguascalientes, Colima...?
So given the 2 scenarios above,
Simona,
Family Finder is the FamilyTreeDNA equivalent to the AncestryDNA autosomal DNA test. If you had the AncestryDNA v1 test (before May 15, 2016) you can do a $39 transfer to FTDNA. Try it for free before paying. https://www.familytreedna.com/AutosomalTransfer
The mtDNA test would be unlikely to resolve the issue that you mentioned but it tell you if your direct maternal line is Native American, European, Africa, or of another origin. You might even find matches that are significant but the likelihood is very low. The best one is the MT Full Sequence since it test the whole mtDNA.
With Y-DNA you have more of a chance of finding a match to someone with well documented ancestry if you test a male from the lineage that you mentioned. So your father, a male sibling, an uncle, or a close cousin would have to get the test. You can order the test and have it sent to the address of the tester if you don't live near them. Not everyone has matches though but as more people test the
ANGIE WROTE:
He married (1) on 10 Jul 1748 in San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco,
Mexico Juana Anttonia ROMERO RAMIREZ, christened 5 Jul 1733 in San
Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico, daughter of FRANCISCO XAVIER ROMERO
Linda,
Yes, I do have more information on Francisco Xavier ROMERO. He and his first wife are my 7th great-grandparents. They originally lived in Durango and then moved to Colotlan, Jalisco in the 1740's. Here is his family information from both his first and second wife.
Francisco Xavier ROMERO married (1) Francisca NORIEGA ALDANA daughter of Francisco DE NORIEGA and Luisa DE ALDANA DE LA RUA on 11 Feb 1703 in El Sagrario Metropolitano, Victoria De Durango, Durango, Mexico. Francisca was christened on 23 Oct 1672 in El Sagrario Metropolitano, Victoria De Durango, Durango, Mexico.
They had the following children:
i. Petronila Maria de los Dolores ROMERO NORIEGA was christened on 27 Jan 1704 in El Sagrario Metropolitano, Victoria De Durango, Durango, Mexico.
ii. Lorenso Hipolito ROMERO NORIEGA was christened on 29 Aug 1707 in El Sagrario Metropolitano, Victoria De Durango, Durango, Mexico.
iii. Dominga Maria ROMERO NORIEGA was christened on 23 Aug 1710 in El Sagrario Metropolitano
Hola Angie Godina, yo tambien provengo de la unión de Joaquin Romero y Josepha De La Thorre. Gracias por la información, has encontrado más datos? ¿De Dónde venian los Romero?
Hello,
HI,
I'm just writing down the pertinent details:
Date of recording: 17 Jan. 1910
Date of birth: 8 Jan. 1910
Name of child: Jose Sarabia
Father: Jose Sarabia
Mother: Luisa Pulido
Paternal grandparents: Fernando Sarabia & Cleta Guzman
Maternal grandparents: Perfecto Pulido & Macedonia Vargas
Testigos: Marcelino Godinez & Tranquilino Ceja
I hope this helps.
Rosalinda
Rosalinda,
Thanks. That does help me a lot. I appreciate you taking the time.
Cindy
Hola a todos:
Encontré que mi abuela "Rita" Magdaleno cambió su nombre, en realidad se llamaba María Michaela.
Se bautizó el 12 de marzo de 1740 con el nombre de María Michaela.
Pues si que nos ayudas con la aclaración, pues en este caso, hay un error y además un cambio de nombre.
Así ya queda aclarado todo para mí y para los demás compañeros.
Supongo que San Cristóbal y Santa Bárbara son haciendas ¿En San Juan de los Lagos o en Encarnación de Díaz?
Saludos
Marcelina
Hola Marcelina y amigos,
Estos dos lugares hoy pertenecen al Municipio de Encarnacion de Diaz. San Cristobal fue un puesto y Santa Barbara fue una hacienda con su propia capilla.
Saludos
Austin Perez
Gracias Austin:
Mi bisabuela Juana Cuellar Murguía (Lagos de Moreno 1876) no habló de su familia, ni siquiera sabía el nombre de sus padres, así que para nosotros era un misterio. Se casó en la ciudad de Guanajuato hacia 1900.
Sus padres vivían en la Hacienda de Cajas, y sus antepasados en la Hacienda Santa Bárbara, El Mesón, el Río de los Sauces, etc. He llegado a encontrar a las familias Macías Valadés, Infante, Gabay... lo cual ha sido una verdadera sorpresa. Pero lo más sorprendente de todo es que varias personas de mi familia incluyéndome nos parecemos a otras personas Macías Valadés.
Estoy utilizando el sobrenombre de mi abuela 6a. Marcelina Macías como un homenaje a quien posiblemente me heredó sus rasgos. Ya estoy corrigiendo mi árbol, puedes verlo en Geneanet bajo el nombre mfabiola, con los datos sobre Rita y Rafael.
Saludos
Marcelina (Fabiola)
Gracias Marcelina por compartir tu árbol genealógico en cual veo que la rama de María Inés Romo termina con sus padres José María Romo y María Antonia Muñoz. Quisiera compartir con usted los ancestros que he encontrado de esta familia, lo cual se puede ver en la siguiente enlace:
https://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Romo-Family-Tree-708
Saludos
Austin Perez
Gracias Austin nuevamente:
Encontré algunos datos de la familia Murguía, voy a abrir un tema sobre esa familia.
Saludos
Marcelina
Hola Marcelina-
El indice en Family Search esta en error. Jose Rafael Valdez y Maria Rita Magdaleno se casaron el 26 de febrero 1775.
Jose Rafael, espanol, originario y vecino de San Cristobal, hijo de Basilio Valdez y Manuela Maravillas con Maria Rita Magdaleno, espanola, originaria y vecina de Santa Barbara, hija de Jose Ferer Magdaleno (aka Dondiego) y Ana Maria Jimenez.
La partida de matrimonio se encuentra en la siguiente enlace:
"México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VPZ5-1?cc=1874591&wc=3JCY-… : 28 June 2014), Lagos de Moreno > Santa María de los Lagos > image 326 of 606; parroquias Católicas, Jalisco (Catholic Church parishes, Jalisco).
Saludos
Austin Perez
Hola Marcelina,
Hora mismo he estado estudiando las familias Valdez y Magdaleno de San Juan de Los Lagos y Encarnacion de Diaz en Los 1700's
Gracias por compartir,
Ricardo A. Ricci
Hola amigos, parientes y paisanos, hay alguien que tenga por ancestro a Manuel González de Hermosillo quién caso en Aguascalientes el 7 de Febrero de 1912 con Dña catarina Romo de Vivar y Villalobos,
Hola amigos, parientes y paisanos, hay alguien que tenga por ancestro a Manuel González de Hermosillo quién caso en Aguascalientes el 7 de Febrero de 1712 con Dña Catarina Romo de Vivar y Villalobos, hija de Nicolas Romo de Vivar y Tizcareño y Maria de Villalobos de la Cruz, necesito los nombres de los padres del Contrayente, por favor algún documento, dónde se asienten los nombres paternos., quiero contactar parientes.......saludos y mil gracias, queda la moneda en el aire. Nota Hay otra Catarina idem sólo que casó en 1790 en jalos. A mi pariente Manuel le tengo adjudicado cómo padres a Juan Gonzalez de Hermosillo y Muñoz de Nava y a Antonia Alvarez Tostado y Luna.
According to DNA study a person who is descendent directlly to Maria Cid Caldera and Miguel Caldera matched with my DNA the Sanchez-Castellanos.
Hello Juan,
That's the beauty of Y-DNA testing. It can provide people with a more solid hypothesis than pure documentation. Thank you so much for publicly sharing the information about the matching.
BigY testing along with a YFull analysis for both of you would provide a TMRCA such as many that are found at https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-DF27/ Notice that some are as recent as 50 years ago and some 350 years ago and so on. Unfortunately Alex Williamson doesn't do that for his tree but his service is free. The cost of the YFull analysis is very small, compared to the BigY, in return for a TMRCA.
I hope that your match can afford the BigY and is interested in a BigY test. It is on sale and there are $75 off coupons at http://bit.ly/2gJfnKa
Also if more descendants of Nicolas Caldera and Clara Cid Caldera, but from different branches than the one your match descends from, were to get a Y67 or Y111 test and match the two of you then it would solidify the common ancestry of everyone that
.
could this be your Manuel and Guadalupe?
.
marriage information recorded 4 Jan 1764 in Monte Escobedo,Zac
Manuel Sanches Espanol from la Canada M.E. age 21
parents: Thomas Villanueva Sanches Castelllanos and Juana Clara Barragan both deceased
with Maria Guadalupe Ulloa Espanola age 22
parents: Lorenso Ulloa and Theresa Justa Duran
source: 1158240 film
page 453 Familysearch online
.
there is a Tetillas in Monte Escobedo, too. If this is your line I have the Sanchez Castellanos back to abt 1630 on Ancestry and Rootsweb. My file is called Mexico.
Linda Castanon-Long
by the way I do descend from Maria Cid Caldera with ties to Monte Escobedo, Tepetongo and Jerez as well as Colotlan, Jalisco
Thanks Linda, thats my line, but the point it is that this person with Lastname Caldera has the DNA of Sanchez-Castellanos.
According to the Sagrada Mitra in a dispensa Matrimonial Rollo
168009 O A H 2401 pt 2. 2358 pt. I.
Matnmonios Hoias Sueltos. Fechas
Varias y 1752-1753. 20 de octubre tle
1752
Jerez. Zac Octubre 20 de 1752 Exp. 16 - Dispensa de cuarto grado puro de
consanguinidad - Francico Miguel Marquez;........Pedro Sid Caldera y su
esposa María Carillo, quienes tuvieron diversos hijos e hijas y entre éstas a
la madre de dicha María Rosales, de cuyo nombre no se acuerda, aunque si tiene
presente el haber sido casada con Joseph Carlos de Godoy, y entre otras hijas
haber tenido a la citada María Rosales, la que fue casada con Martín de Arceo,
los que tuvieron entre otros hijos e hijas a Clara de Arceo. madre del citado
Francisco Miguel Márquez. Y Clara Sid Caldera, hija legítima de los referidos
Pedro Sid Caldera y María Carrillo, hubo por su hijo natural a Nicolás Caldera,
quien casó con Leonor Rodarte, y durante su matrimonio procrearon por su
legítimo hijo a Nicolás Cruz Caldera, quien fue casado
Estimados Miembros,
Lamento compartirles que hoy falleció Rafael Tovar de Teresa, hermano de Guillermo Tovar de Teresa, fallecido miembro de Nuestros Ranchos.
I am truly amazed and extremely glad for those members that have had numerous responses and help answering their pleas for help.
Hola a todos,
Quiero anunciarles que hace un mes estrené mi blog de Genealogía, esta es la dirección de la página:
www.historiasygenealogia.com
Hola queridos amigos genealogistas, he seguido las publicaciones en mi blog historiasygenealogia.com
Por la temporada navideña, quiero compartirles la nueva entrada en la página: "¡Regalos navideños con Historia!" una lista de libros, juegos y otra variedad de artículos para todos los apasionados de la Historia...
El link es el siguiente: http://www.historiasygenealogia.com/regalos-navidenos-con-historia/
Espero disfruten de mis recomendaciones y si les gusta el contenido del sitio, pueden seguir la página de Facebook Historias y Genealogía para futuras actualizaciones.
Les deseo a todos una Feliz Navidad y próspero año Nuevo.
Enrique Agraz
Hola a todos, estoy de vuelta para compartirles el artículo que les prometí la semana pasada.
Elaboré un set de preguntas biográficas que consideré esenciales para registrar la vida de cada miembro de su familia.
Cuando tuve la idea inicial de crear este cuestionario jamás me imaginé lo mucho que me agradaría el resultado final, yo mismo estoy ansioso por usar esta herramienta en mis entrevistas familiares! No les adelanto las bonitas sorpresas de este artículo, descúbranlas ustedes mismos :)
http://www.historiasygenealogia.com/el-cuestionario-genealogico-que-tod…
Enrique Agraz
El día de ayer publiqué la primera lección de mi curso de Genealogía. Mi meta es interesar a un mayor número de personas en este fabuloso tema y de esa manera seamos una sociedad más consciente de sus raíces, conocimiento que nos ayudará a entender nuestro Presente!
Les dejo el link del artículo:
http://www.historiasygenealogia.com/mis-consejos-para-tu-entrevista-gen…
La próxima semana compartiré un cuestionario genealógico muy completo. Estén al pendiente!
Enrique Agraz
Hola, el día de hoy publiqué en mi blog un artículo sobre el Marqués de la Villa del Villar del Águila, espero sea de su agrado.
http://www.historiasygenealogia.com/el-legado-del-marques-queretano/
Pueden seguirme en
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/historiasygenealogia/
Twitter @HistoriasyGenea
Hasta la próxima,
Enrique Agraz
Hola, les comparto mi nuevo artículo, publicado el día Lunes. Se titula "Oro y Plata en el México Colonial", dónde resuelvo algunas dudas y mitos en torno a la minería en Nueva España.
Aquí les dejo el link:
http://www.historiasygenealogia.com/oro-y-plata-en-el-mexico-colonial/
La comunidad de la página crece cada día más, no se queden fuera y suscríbanse a la página de Facebook. La próxima semana publicaré tema sobre turismo histórico.
Saludos,
Enrique Agraz
My mother's DNA results came in and I was in utter shock to see her results.
Research on Italian ancestors of some Nueva Galicia founders.
Four Italian lines that I have done a lot of research on are through my Villaseñor-Orosco- Cervantes line, Lomellieni line, Estrada-Gutierrez-Bocanegra line, and De La Torre-Ledesma line.
There are a couple of other Italian lines that I have researched like the Perestrello (Pallestrelli) and the Spinola that I haven't proven.
I believe the Peres-franco de Paredes may descend from the Perestrello (Pallestrelli) family.
I also have not proved which Luis Lomelin Spinola is my ancestor so I have collected information on both Spinola branches.
Although it is correct that Aragon did own parts of what is now Italy, there was also a lot of movement/interaction between France and Aragon. A prime Example of a family living in both Aragon and France are the Fernandez de Hijar Sanchez ancestors that I have proposed as Toribio Hernandez Hijar Arellano Sanchez's paternal ancestors.
Rick A. Ricci
I think what is getting lost in many of these posts is that there were not enough Italian ancestors in Los Altos de Jalisco, or the environs, for an amount of 33% Italian/Greek to be real. Even full Italians don't get 100% Italian DNA in a lot of DNA tests. DNA divides on average about 50% so for a person to really have 33% Italian/Greek they would have to have more than 33% of their genealogical tree with Italian ancestors so the Italian DNA wouldn't get lost in the over the many generations and instead would just recombine. The documented ancestry of the people of the region and the DNA of the people from the region that have tested doesn't support such a large amount of Italian DNA. The 23andme ethnicity calculator is normally much closer to the documented ancestry when looking at autosomal DNA. FTDNA is much better for Y-DNA, mtDNA, and is also useful for finding additional matches from autosomal DNA.
An example of what Armando states about an Italian not coming up hundred per cent Italian is the Lomellini. Even though I gave traced the Lomellini in Italy for many centuries, they would not show up as a hundred percent Italian as I have found that they also have French, German, and even Iberian roots way, way back.
The Villaseñor-Orosco-Cervantes line is an Iberian line that does have Italian ancestors that go way back, but also include North African and middle eastern ancestry.
Armando stated that parents give an "average of fifty per cent". His statement is true but most people don't understand the implications of an average of DNA contribution. One parent can give a higher percentage of their DNA than the other parent. It is not fifty-fifty, that is the average of data.
R.A. Ricci
It should be noted that the Crown of Aragon included large portions of Italy including Sicily and Naples. Under the marriage of Ferdinand and Isabella, Castile and Aragon were combined into one state now known as Spain. This should explain any Italian lineage you find in Mexico.
Last March as part of the group, *Nuevo Mundo Historical and Genealogical
Society of Silicon Valley*, I presented a Powerpoint presentation on this
topic, the first colonizers to the America's based solely on the book
mentioned below.
According to Peter Boyd Bowman's book titled Indice Biografico de Cuarenta
Mil Pobladores Españoles De America en el Siglo XVI, Tomo 1 - 1493-1519,
There were 44 Portuguese, 61 Italians, 36 of other origins, most of these
were mariners and merchants. Those who were Italian were mostly from Genoa,
although most of them resided in Sevilla. Most of these arrived and settled
in the Dominican Republic, although some returned to Spain. Genoa at the
time, was known as the center of ship building and sea merchants in the
Iberian Peninsula, therefore it also produced the most mariners. Mariners
was not the same as sailors, those who were mariners and merchants usually
came from well educated, more prosperous families.
Of the first 5,481 colonizers who came to
Last March as part of the group, *Nuevo Mundo Historical and Genealogical
Society of Silicon Valley*, I presented a Powerpoint presentation on this
topic, the first colonizers to the America's based solely on the book
mentioned below.
According to Peter Boyd Bowman's book titled Indice Biografico de Cuarenta
Mil Pobladores Españoles De America en el Siglo XVI, Tomo 1 - 1493-1519,
There were 44 Portuguese, 61 Italians, 36 of other origins, most of these
were mariners and merchants. Those who were Italian were mostly from Genoa,
although most of them resided in Sevilla. Most of these arrived and settled
in the Dominican Republic, although some returned to Spain. Genoa at the
time, was known as the center of ship building and sea merchants in the
Iberian Peninsula, therefore it also produced the most mariners. Mariners
was not the same as sailors, those who were mariners and merchants usually
came from well educated, more prosperous families.
Of the first 5,481 colonizers who came to
My views are are not scientific but deduction from the what I have seen and read. If you took your DNA test through Ancestry you will see all the people you match have very similar results. My family, Relatives and friends all were as astonished as you and I to see Italian/Greek. I read Ancestry's explanation of history why there is an admixed in Spain as well as in Italy/Greece. My cousins the Pedrozas matched to over 490 people with very similar results, as well as the Molinas, Antunas, Castellanos, Rodriguez/Lomelin, and Ruiz/Vargas. But my friend who is a Garcia Trevino from Nuevo Leon matched to over 2000 people, all with very similar DNA.
Published in 1925, La Raza Cósmica by Jose Vasconcelos The phrase derived by a movement that stated Americans have the blood of all the world's so-called “races”: European, Asian-descended native Americans and Africans, thereby transcending the peoples of the "old world". While the entire phrase did not catch on, La Raza did.
Vanessa,
Almost everyone with ancestry from Mexico and Hispanics from U.S. Southwest get a lot of Italian/Greek in their AncestryDNA results. Not a lot of Spaniards and Portuguese have posted their AncestryDNA.
At 23andme Mexicans, including people from Jalisco, and Latin Americans get a lot of Iberian but only sometimes some Italian and no Greek which shows up as Balkan. If they do get Italian it is normally 3% or less but for Spaniards and Portuguese it is not uncommon for them to get 3% or more Italian and a very minute amount of Greek. So the Italian looks to be from more ancient ancestry that has persisted through the Iberian ancestry.
FTDNA myOrigins does not try to separate Iberian and Italian so Mexicans and other Latin Americans wouldn't see a difference there. However, Greeks get a lot of Asia Minor with FTDNA myOrigins but most Hispanics don't.
The Oracles in the Admixture calculators at www.gedmatch.com probably won't show Italian as a possible source of the DNA. You
I have tested my mother, father and myself. My results are more similar to my father's in that I showed up as Amerindian and Iberian. Only 6% Italian appeared in my DNA.
I will be going to La Barca, Jalisco to test my mother's maternal and paternal uncles who are in their late 80s - early 90s during the Holidays. It is my estimation that my mother's maternal grandfather, a Villasenor, will have the Italian line as his mother and father were second cousins and I assume it is because of this that there is a large percentage of Italian genealogy in my mother's DNA. Also, I have messaged one of my cousins on ancestry.com who stems from one of my Villasenor lines and she had about 10-15% Italian ancestry.
I have transferred my DNA code from AncestryDNA to FTDNA and have seen some differences in ancestry from the two. I am wondering what you all think would be the best or most advantageous way of using my granduncles' DNA. Do you think using a different testing site would be better
Dear Vanessa,
Many people from Los Altos de Jalisco will find some percentage of Italian blood, but it is usually in the single digits. You are correct that the Villaseñor Orosco Cervantes line is a contributor to Italian ancestry results. From this line I have traced a couple of Italian families for centuries in Italy. These families have provided some interesting stories.
Rick A. Ricci
Rick Ricci,
I have a sheet with the DNA results of 39 Spaniards and 16 Portuguese and almost all of them have Italian DNA. So it isn't just the people from Los Altos de Jalisco that will have Italian DNA.
Dear Armando
I agree with you that there are many more. By my comment I meant that I have researched a couple of my Italian lines for many centuries in Italy, and their descendants in Los altos de Jalisco.
Thanks
Rick A Ricci
Vanessa,
I wouldn't take the AncestryDNA results literally. Many people from Latin America get levels of Italian/Greek far above what they get at 23andme which is a much more accurate test. You have already seen differences between AncestryDNA and FTDNA. If you were to test yourself, your mother and your father at 23andme you would see even a bigger difference and more accurate results. 23andme has a $99 test just for ancestry at https://www.23andme.com/dna-ancestry/ That's the test I recommend that you get for you, your family, and your relatives.
Gedmatch has other calculators for free. Have you uploaded all of the kits to Gedmatch? Try going to Admixture (heritage) then select Eurogenes then Eurogenes K13 then click on Oracle-4 then look at 4 populations approximation. Does your mother get Italian in that result?
Armando
Because Italy was part time d to be Spanish empire and some family Blaine's
me to Italy like zambrano I have 5/ DNA from Sardinia and Italy. Malta etc
were Spanish order armies
On Nov 22, 2016 1:46 PM, wrote:
> I have tested my mother, father and myself. My results are more similar to
> my
> father's in that I showed up as Amerindian and Iberian. Only 6% Italian
> appeared in my DNA. I will be going to La Barca, Jalisco to test my
> mother's
> maternal and paternal uncles who are in their late 80s - early 90s during
> the
> Holidays. It is my estimation that my mother's maternal grandfather, a
> Villasenor, will have the Italian line as his mother and father were second
> cousins and I assume it is because of this that there is a large percentage
> of Italian genealogy in my mother's DNA. Also, I have messaged one of my
> cousins on ancestry.com who stems from one of my Villasenor lines and she
> had
> about 10-15% Italian ancestry. I have transferred my DNA code from
> AncestryDNA
Hola a todos:
La Orden de San Juan de Jerusalén estuvo en muchos lugares del oriente medio y sus militares estuvieron en España y posteriormente en Nueva España y Nueva Galicia.
Una de las ramas principales es la de la familia Zúñiga (Stunicca) Duques de Béjar cuyo sobrino Iñigo Ortiz de Zúñiga se halló en la conquista de Nueva Galicia.
En ésta conquista estuvo también Don Hernando Pérez de Córdova y Bocanegra (Fernández de Córdoba), un siciliano de apelido Rosso.
La familia Ramírez de Coy tan extendida en Nueva Galicia desciende de los Spínola y los Doria de Génova y los Bravo de Sicilia.
Otra familia italiana muy generalizada es la familia Estrada.
Hay los apellido Rodas, Griego, Martin (Pinzón), Sandi, de origen griego y otros como los Calvo, genoveses.
Tengo alguna información de estas familias, pues en Querétaro hubo varias de origen genovés, siciliano, griego... depende de los ancestros de la madre de Vanessa.
Saludos
Marcelina
Marcelia (o alguien mas que sabe de esta familia) perdone que te escribo lo siquiente en English ya que no se mucho de escribir en Espanol. Have you come across any Paisano. My fourth great grandfather was Jacinto Paisano married to Maria Carmen Amalla around 1780 in San Luis Potosi, Mexico?
Hola Sarod:
Pues antes de estar en San Luis Potosí estaban en la Sierra de Pinos de Zacatecas:
Al revisar los apellidos al parecer originalmente eran Pisano o Pisana, posiblemente toponímicos de Pisa, Italia.
Hay una Familia de Domingo Pisana y María Francisca de Herrera con varios hijos bautizados en San Matías, Sierra de Pinos, Zacatecas pero tuvieron un hijo e Mexquitic en 1740 San Luis Potosí. Hubo además un Joseph Pisano y un Salvador Pisano. Pero no está el registro de bautizo de Jacinto.
En 1750 aparece un Domingo Paisano con María Mireles bautizando a María Antonia Abad en Mexquitic.
Jacinto viene a aparecer hasta 1774 cuando se casa en San Matías, Sierra de Pinos el día 30 de junio con María Carmen Nieto, que utilizó los apellidos Amaya y Baticoia.
Tuvieron sus hijos en Sierra de Pinos: María Gregoria se bautizó el 15 de mayo de 1783, Joseph Alexandro se bautizó el 25 de octubre de 1785.
Después la familia pasa a Salinas, San Luis Potosí como consta en el bautismo de
Marcelina and Rick, Thank you so much for the valuable added information.
I had come across some records by the name pisano and felt they were the same but put off proving it as Maria Carmen o Carmel Nieto, o Amalla o Baticoia (this is truly new to me and a name I had not come across) was spinning my wheels. In the civil records of her son Rafael (3rd Grandfather) passing 11 May 1862 • San Luis Potosí, México, she is referred to as Maria Betancourt. I'll renew my search with those two new names.
Hola Sarod:
En la búsqueda de ayer vi un registro en que la familia realmente era Tiscareño y no Escareño, que al parecer es una deformación. Pero luego ya no pude encontrarlo.
Toma en cuenta esta variación porque varios compañeros ya tiene avances sobre la descendencia de Don Luis Tiscareño de Molina, uno de los genearcas de la región.
Saludos
Marcelina
Al principio de mi busqueda de Escareno note que hay muchas variaciones pero aun no puedo encontrar mi Juan Jose Tiscareno (LKC8-FDZ) casado con Michaela Rodriguez.
La problema de Juan Jose tiscareno es su mama. No se si el es de esta Ana Maria Tiscareno
(9Q3M-ZVC) hija de Joseph Tiscareno Huerta y Theresa Mendez o otra.
Son muchos los hijos pero no creo que son de ella aunque si tiene sus nombres. 33 anos de tener hijos.
Ya junte muchos tiscarenos pero no encuentro los datos de su matrimonio. Se que los tiscarenos estuvieron en aguascalientes, asientos, ags., jalisco y esta rama paso a Azogueros donde fueron varias familias que eran duenos y muchos de ellos eran familia desde mucho antes.
Thank you Marcelina for your help.
Simona
Hola Simona:
El primer registro en Salinas es el bautismo de José de los Ángeles Tiscareño, hijo de Bernardo Tiscareño, contiene imagen en la que se especifica que no se conocen los nombres de los abuelos paternos ni maternos.
"México, San Luis Potosí, registros parroquiales, 1586-1970", database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNYX-TV4 : 27 July 2015), Jose de los Angeles Tiscareno, 1799.
La utilidad de éste registro es que indica que la familia estuvo en Salinas a fines del Siglo XVIII.
Será necesario buscar a ese Bernardo para saber de qué rama viene la familia.
Saludos
Marcelina
thank you Marcelina for your help. The following is info for Bernardo Tiscareno.
José de los Ángeles Tiscareño (Salinas, SLP 1799), hijo de Bernardo Tiscareño,
Bernardo Tiscareno Born possibly in Pinos or Charcas, SLP is hijo de Jose Toribio Tiscareno Mendez (1727)
Jose Toribio Tiscareno Mendez (Pinos, 1727) hijo de Joseph Tiscareno Huerta 07 Nov 1681 Ags.
Many of the records in Nuestro Padre Jesus, Salinas, SLP, Mexico either have "se ignoran los Padres" or No Saben, No conocidos but having found many of the marriages of these families in Salinas and having known parents, I can only guess that someone went to register who didn't know their names or the scribe somehow didn't ask or write it down.
Simona,
Yo soy pariente cercano de José de Tiscareño y Hurta y su mujer Teresa Méndez de Sotomayor e Infante quienes casaron el 22 de abril de 1720 en Sierra de Pinos. No tengo noticia de sus nietos, solamente sus hijos quienes debes conocer muy bien. A cuanto tu línea Tiscareño/Rodríguez, tu Juan José podría ser Juan José de los Reyes de Tiscareño y su mujer Teresa de Córdoba?
Daniel Méndez de Torres y Camino
I have a question related to the Italian ancestry at the beginning of this thread. I did my AncestryDNA a couple years ago and never thought much of it but after seeing some of the others DNA it seems different from some of those posted here. All of my ancestry is from Mexico, although, not all of my ancestors are from Nueva Galicia. But, I'm wondering if someone can tell me if these results seem typical:
6% North African
1% African South Central Hunter Gatherers
19% Native American
6% East Asia
23% Iberian Peninsula
11% Europe West
11% Italy/Greece
6% Great Britain
3% Scandinavia
3% European Jewish
3% Ireland
8% Middle East
Paige
Hola Paige:
Posiblemente los ancestros más recientes que tienes son los nativo americano y los más antiguos son los africanos.
Supongo que sabes cuáles son tus raíces de la Península Ibérica.
Para conocer las otras raíces es necesario saber los lugares en los que estuvieron tus ancestros. Antes escribí una lista de los apellidos italianos más antiguos de Nueva Galicia. Conozco varias familias Villalobos con rasgos árabes. En tu presentación únicamente incluyes los apellidos Torres y Villalobos.
México tiene mucha diversidad étnica. Posiblemente tienes alguna idea acerca de los apellidos de tus ancestros y su origen.
Saludos
Marcelina
Daniel thank you as well.
On ancestry Juan Jose de los Reyes de tiscareno y Teresa de Cordoba I thought maybe they are the same but they don't quite fit with the information available. I'll keep searching the records of Charcas, Asientos, and Zacatecas.
Dear Simona,
Marcelina has provided valuable information on this family. I am attaching a few threads to pick at to find more information on this family.
I believe that before San Luis Potosí and Zacatecas the family may have been in Guanajuato so include that state in your search for clues.
Good Luck,
Rick A. Ricci
Jph. Alexandro Paisanos Baticoia
Gender Male
Christening Date 25 Oct 1785
Christening Place SAN MATIAS,PINOS,ZACATECAS,MEXICO
Father's Name Xacinto Paisanos
Mother's Name Ma. Del Carmel Baticoia
Citing this Record
"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NG8F-H3L : 2 January 2015), Xacinto Paisanos in entry for Jph. Alexandro Paisanos Baticoia, 25 Oct 1785; citing SAN MATIAS,PINOS,ZACATECAS,MEXICO, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,095,300.
Jacinto De La Cruz Pizano
mentioned in the record of Jacinto De La Cruz Pizano and Antta. Rosa Ramires
Name Jacinto De La Cruz Pizano
Spouse's Name Antta. Rosa Ramires
Event Date 14
Is there a list of the available Mexico records for Ancestry.com by
state, municipality, year, etc? Do they offer the actual images or
just the database results?
The Ancestry.Com "Zacatecas, Mexico, Civil Registration Deaths, 1861-1987" are new, are indexed and have source pages. There are little pointers on the .pdf page on the system. You can download them too, but the pointers are gone. These are the log books kept civil registrars. The death descriptions give names of reporting family members, and the names of the parents and spouse of the deceased, with time of death, cause of death and location. Depending on the handwriting, some are easier to read than others.
The same log books also contain some marriage announcements and birth registrations, despite the title.
From: Arturo Gonzalez
To: "research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] You are hereForums / History, Culture and General Discussion / Ancestry.com Offers Up 220M Mexican Records for Free for Día de Muertos Ancestry.com Offers Up 220M Mexican Records for Free for Día de Muertos
Is there a list of
The Ancestry.Com "Zacatecas, Mexico, Civil Registration Deaths, 1861-1987" are new, are indexed and have source pages. There are little pointers on the .pdf page on the system. You can download them too, but the pointers are gone. These are the log books kept civil registrars. The death descriptions give names of reporting family members, and the names of the parents and spouse of the deceased, with time of death, cause of death and location. Depending on the handwriting, some are easier to read than others.
The same log books also contain some marriage announcements and birth registrations, despite the title.
From: Arturo Gonzalez
To: "research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] You are hereForums / History, Culture and General Discussion / Ancestry.com Offers Up 220M Mexican Records for Free for Día de Muertos Ancestry.com Offers Up 220M Mexican Records for Free for Día de Muertos
Is there a list of
I took a look at "Zacatecas, Mexico, Civil Registration Deaths,
1861-1987" on ancestry to see if there was anything new, but for the
two towns I looked at (Jalpa and Huanusco), the materials are also
available from FamilySearch.org.
The title page for these films are here:
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1916240
On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 1:13 AM, Anita Susan Brenner, Esq.
wrote:
> The Ancestry.Com "Zacatecas, Mexico, Civil Registration Deaths, 1861-1987" are new, are indexed and have source pages. There are little pointers on the .pdf page on the system. You can download them too, but the pointers are gone. These are the log books kept civil registrars. The death descriptions give names of reporting family members, and the names of the parents and spouse of the deceased, with time of death, cause of death and location. Depending on the handwriting, some are easier to read than others.
> The same log books also contain some marriage announcements and birth registrations
I have a question. Is Jalpa the same is Teul de Ortega?
From: Arturo Gonzalez
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2015 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] You are hereForums / History, Culture and General Discussion / Ancestry.com Offers Up 220M Mexican Records for Free for Día de Muertos Ancestry.com Offers Up 220M Mexican Records for Free for Día de Muertos
I took a look at "Zacatecas, Mexico, Civil Registration Deaths,
1861-1987" on ancestry to see if there was anything new, but for the
two towns I looked at (Jalpa and Huanusco), the materials are also
available from FamilySearch.org.
The title page for these films are here:
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1916240
On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 1:13 AM, Anita Susan Brenner, Esq.
wrote:
> The Ancestry.Com "Zacatecas, Mexico, Civil Registration Deaths, 1861-1987" are new, are indexed and have source pages. There are little pointers on the .pdf page on the system. You can download them
No, se trata de municipios diferentes en el Estado de Zacatecas. Se encuentran localizados en la misma región geográfica, pero son entidades distintas.
Hello friends, I'm having trouble reading the name of this town. Each time, I google it, I can find anything. I honestly don't even know if it was in Nueva Galicia.
I don't think your Hostotipac refers to the current town of Hostotipaquillo. I have ancestors in and around Mascota and Guachinango, and some of them are also mentioned to be residing in "el real de Hostotipaque" with several spellings. I believe it may refer to the following location in the municipality of San Sebastian del Oeste, which is very close to Mascota:
http://www.en.nuestro-mexico.com/Jalisco/San-Sebastian-del-Oeste/Areas-…
I found a PDF of book called "Historia de Orizaba", that make reference to various towns.
http://cdigital.dgb.uanl.mx/la/1080018209/1080018209_46.pdf
On page 4, the book reference the Pueblo of "Ostotiquipaque" twice, while on page 2, they refer to another town as "Ostoctipac". I believe "ostoctipac" is what later became Hostotipaquillo.
Unfortunately the book does not reference where "Ostotiquipaque" is. The town which the book is based on, Orizaba, is in Veracruz near the border of Puebla, where Danny says "Ostotiquipaque" might be.
Hola de nuevo:
En el Portal pares encontré lo siguiente:
Que hubo un general llamado Juan Ruiz de Contreras que tuvo a su cargo varias flotas, defendió Filipinas, Chile, etc. hay muchos registros sobre sus actividades militares. Luego pasó al Consejo de Indias y desde ahí controlaba la tesorería de Nueva Galicia, como se aprecia en el siguiente registro:
GUADALAJARA,230,L2, F181R-181V Año 1620
Fue sucedido por su hijo Fernando Ruiz de Contreras, como se aprecia en el siguiente registro:
MEXICO,38,N.8 Carta del Virrey Duque de Albuquerque
9.- Fernando Ruiz de Contreras miembro del Consejo de Guerra e Indias y Secretario de Estado y Despacho Universal sobre los 2000 que se han de entregar para gastos secretos de lo procedido del Servicio que Nicolás de Quiñones ha hecho por el oficio de tesorero en Guadalajara, Madrid 9-X-1653
10.- Razón de la Contaduría General de Indias sobre el pago de media anata y de la distribución del servicio de Nicolás de Quiñones ha hecho a Su Majestad
Considerando que los descendientes de mi Diego Ruiz De Contreras pasarán todo el nombre "Ruiz De Contreras" a lo largo de las generaciones, no tengo duda de que soy descendiente de Anton Ruiz De Contreras, fundador de la familia Ruiz De Contreras. Los Juan Ruiz De Contreras y Fernando Ruiz De Contreras son descendientes de Anton Ruiz De Contreras. Tengo suficiente confianza para poner a Anton Ruiz De Contreras y su linaje en mi árbol genealógico. A través del abuelo de Anton, Sancho De Contreras, lo conecto con Fernán Sasa De Contreras, que fue el primer Contreras desde el año 900.
Anton nació en el último 1400s. Esto podría convertirlo en un gran tatarabuelo de Diego. Lo único que me falta es esa diferencia entre Diego y Anton.
Hola de nuevo:
Cre que tienes razón y tu ancestro Diego Ruiz e Contreras desciende de la familia de Toledo. La dificultad de ubicar a los descendientes de los militares es grande porque Diego pudo haber nacido en otro país, ya que Juan Ruiz de Contreras y su hijo Fernando estuvieron en Filipinas y en los demás virreinatos y luego en Madrid. Se me ocurren tres líneas de investigación:
1. Hacer un sumario de todas las reales Cédulas que hay en el Archivo General de Indias para hacer una estimación de la época en la que estuvieron en diversos países, por ejemplo en Filipinas y Guatemala. En el portal PARES puedes escribir Juan Ruiz de Contreras y te dará muchos Archivos relacionados.
2. Buscar algún grupo genealógico de Toledo y otro de Guatemala. Desafortunamente ya no existe Heraldaria.
3. Existen grupos interesados en historia militar de España, que van registrando los nombres de los militares.
Respecto del origen del apellido Contreras no estoy de acuerdo en que sea Contrebia de
Gracias voy a empezar a mapear los descendientes de Anton ver de dónde Diego podría haber descendido.
In comparing his letters this is what it looks like "ost_liquis poque" or Ost_tiqui (but I think the poque might be por que or pa que). In addition being that he at times spells as it sounds, it could begin with jost_tiquis poque.
I'll have to review the original that you sent a few days ago to compare more words although we know that he writes without clarity at times.
In part of the document he states he lived one year in Magdalena Tequis is that short for Magdalena Tequisquiapan in Queretaro?
Hola a todos:
En Querétaro hubo una rama Ruiz Servín, familia que utilizaba el apellido de Contreras en el siglo XVII.
¿Cuentan con más datos sobre Nicolás para poder compararlo con las familias de Querétaro?
Saludos
Marcelina
Hola. Lo que sé es que el nombre de mi antepasado más antiguo es Diego Ruiz De Contreras. Creo que nació en los primeros 1600s. En 1637 tuve una hija llamada Catalina en la ciudad de Guadalajara. Tenía a su hijo, Nicolás en el pueblo que estamos tratando de descifrar en el tema de arriba alrededor del año 1645. En la década de 1650, la familia se trasladó a Mascota, Jalisco. Muchos de sus descendientes en Mascota a lo largo de los años 1600 y 1700 mantuvieron el nombre "Ruiz De Contreras"
No sé nada antes de Diego Ruiz De Contreras. Espero que esta ciudad que estamos tratando de encontrar pueda tener pistas.
Hey Sarod. I think it says "Mada Luna y Tequila". Tequila is a town outside of Guadalajara where the drink originates from.
It makes sense because after maping out Mascota, Tequila and Cuquio, it looks like Nicolas slowly traveled from west to east. If he continued west, this could explain why there are "Ruiz De Contreras" in the neighboring Guanajuanto state.
This makes sense. Thanks Danny.
Do you know where this town is or was?
It seems that Ostotiquipaque is now Hostotipaquillo. Unfortunately, records don't go back that far into the 1600s
I believe Diego probably met his wife, who was from Mascota, in the city of Guadalajara. They then had a child in Guadalajara before going to Ostotiquipaque where Nicolas was born. Then they returned to Mascota.
Hola de nuevo:
Algunas familias establecidas en Colima luego fueron a Mascota, según recuerdo...
En el libro Andariegos y pobladores de Nueva Galicia, de Miguel Romero de Solís (online), se señalan varias familias de apellido Ruiz, una de ellas, la familia Ruiz de Vilches tuvo un tutor llamado Diego de Contreras.
Sería interesante revisar los lugares en los que estas familias recibieron tierras para saber si se encuentran relacionadas con la familia Ruiz de Contreras, yo conozco muy poco de los nombres antiguos de esa región.
Saludos
Marcelina
Revisé el libro. No creo que este sea mi Diego Ruiz De Contreras, pero es muy posible que Diego De Contreras, que era el tutor y el cuidador de los hijos menores de Pero Ruiz de Vilches y de María Ruiz de Monjaraz, Antepasado de mi Diego.
En el libro, dice que Diego De Contreras murió en 1595. Mi Diego Ruiz De Contreras vivió en Guadalajara en 1637 y luego vivió en Ostotiquipaque (Hostotipaquillo) hacia 1645.
Estoy buscando en el Sagrario Metropolitano De Guadalajara. Record "Bautismos, matrimonios, defunciones 1599-1634, y hasta ahora, no he encontrado ningún Ruiz De Contreras.
Encontré una pareja llamada Don Luis De Contreras y Leonor De Calderón y un par de nombres Diego Ruiz De Salamanca y Juana De Ahumada, que tuvieron hijos justo cuando Diego Ruiz De Contreras hubiera nacido.
I don't but the few places that it's mentioned also mention puebla mexico,
so its probly next to puebla.
Danny C. Alonso
On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 9:53 AM, wrote:
> This makes sense. Thanks Danny. Do you know where this town is or was?
>
Hola de nuevo:
Las familias establecidas en Colima se dedicaban al cultivo de cacao que vendían en otras ciudades.
Mi familia tenía huertas en Colima pero tenía casas para distribución de vino de Huelva en toda la Nueva España y en otros virreinatos, algunos miembros de la familia como llamados Ramírez de Alarcón vivieron en Colima y llevaban el cacao para España.
Si la familia era comerciante pudo haberse desplazado constantemente. ¿A qué se dedicaban los Ruiz de Contreras?
Saludos
Marcelina
No sé qué hicieron, pero me refiero a Diego Ruiz De Contreras como "Don". ¿Don significó que usted era de un nivel social más alto o parte de la nobleza en el México colonial?
Sé que en España hay una rama de la familia Contreras conocida como "Ruiz De Contreras". Algunos de ellos se establecieron en Guatemala a principios de 1600. Uno de ellos, Juan Ruiz De Contreras, fue gobernador de Guatemala en 1629.
Tal vez Diego Ruiz De Contreras, que nació a principios de 1600, y vivió en Guadalajara en la década de 1630, está conectado a esta familia.
First of all I'd like to thank Nuestros Ranchos.
It occurred to me that another possibility is that Diego Jaime, listed as the father of Jorge, may have actually been a son of a Romo de Vivar. I've seen statistics that up to a quarter of the tests to establish paternity today come back negative.
Deedra Corona
Yes, that is a possibility that Diego Jaime, listed as the father of Jorge,
may have actually been a son of a Romo de Vivar. I had brought it up to
Luis outside of the thread. However, it is just as possible that Diego
Jaime in reality was Diego Romo de Vivar y Rangel Pequero. Since Jorge was
an hijo de padres no conocidos the surname was given to him arbitrarily.
Meaning the surname was probably not based on his supposed paternity.
As far as the statistic that up to a quarter of the tests to establish
paternity today come back negative.Those tests were done to begin with
because they weren't sure of the paternity so that automatically inflates
the negative tests as compared to the regular population that doesn't
question their paternity. I imagine that the mother of Jorge reported the
father to be Diego Romo but since the given surname was Jaime the testigos
in the dispensa and the scribe writing the dispensa were either confused or
didn't know.
So far all of the people with well
Hello. My name is Amando Jayme and I am a relatively new member to the Nuestros Ranchos site and group. I am very excited to learn from others, contribute and possibly assist others with their research. I've been following some of the Nuestros Ranchos threads, specifically related to the Jorge Jaime of Aguascalientes exchanges.
Well, it's been approximately three years and we now know that Jorge Jaime is not a Romo de Vivar. Three Ydna tests from three different sons and descendant lines (including mine) do not match the Romo DNA. I match the other testers on the 37 marker Ydna test at genetic distances of 1 and 3. Ironically, one of the testers lives near me and is a descendant of Tadeo Antonio Jaime, the grandson of Jorge whose marriage record was the first known mention of Diego Jaime and Maria de Sandobal y Olibarri--Jorge's parents.
My quest is now to locate the Diego Jaime and possible descendants or ancestors. This might be a challenge since a couple of the prime candidates
Amando,
Jorge Jaime is an ancestor of mine from his son Florentino Jaime. is the theory that Diego Romo de Vivar that married Luisa de los Angeles is the actual father of Jorge Jaimes and abandoned him or is it that Diego Romo de Vivar that's married to Maria Rangel had a natural born child with a girl named Jaime and that child became Diego Jaime who married the Olibarri girl and then had Jorge Jaime. I'm not sure whats going on.
Danny C. Alonso
Danny-Thanks for your question. Actually, none of your scenarios are true or the real picture. In short, Jorge Jaime is NOT a Romo de Vivar as previously suspected. Until DNA evidence from me and three other Jaime's entered the picture, all theories were speculation and mere guesses. DNA evidence from three Jaime descendants, including me, proved that the Romo de Vivar DNA entered a specific Jaime line in the early to mid-1800s--most likely with one son of Jose Maximo Jaime. I also descend from Jose Maximo Jaime but from a different son than the Jaime cousin who tested as a Romo de Vivar.
The Jaime Ydna at ftDNA was tested from descendants of three of Florentino's sons---Tadeo, Ignacio and Leonicio. All three of us matched which means Jorge is the son of Diego Jaime and Maria de Sandobal y Olibarri and not a Romo. It's complicated so I hope that makes sense. I have more potential testing prospects but since all current Jaime autosomal and Ydna leads back to Jorge Jaime and no one
Amando,
in Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara it says Diego Jaimes de la Campa is the son of Juan de Jaimes and Da Maria de la Campa:
Autlán. Jal. Marzo 17 de 1676 - Autos sobre fe de bautismo - Información sobre
el bautizo de Don Diego Jaimes de la Campa. Clérigo Diácono de este Obispado,
hijo legítimo de Juan de Jaimes y Doña María de la Campa, difuntos vecinos que
fueron del Pueblo de Autlan. Declaración de Antonio de Morales, de 45 años de
edad y vecino de este pueblo: Que el dicho Diego Jaimes de la Campa, anda en 26
años que cumplirá por noviembre de este presente año, porque se acuerda muy bien
que nació a 12 de Noviembre día de San Diego, el año de 50. porque luego el
siguiente do 51 por junio, nació Antonio de Morales, hijo de este testigo, como
consta de un librito en que tiene asentados este testigo los días en que
nacieron y se bautizaron sus hijos. En el Pueblo de Autlan en 3 de abril de
1676, se mandó auto de remisión para el Sr. Provisor...
Also I don't know if the other
Danny--Thank you for the follow-up. I have the two documents/articles you reference and am focused on the historical anthology outlined by Bernardo del Hoyo Calzada because of its great detail on Diego Jaime de la Campa's place within the de la Campa y Cos family, the Church, and the region. Also, this Diego would have been 19 years old if and/or when he fathered Jorge Jaime making the "prominent son who strayed a bit" theory more palatable. His original Autlan, Jalisco location for the priesthood "baptism", the placement of Jorge Jaime in a Franciscan monastery, and Diego's standing as a lawyer and eventual, near-secular ecclesiastical judge makes great sense in this potential scenario. In addition, this Diego could be the same Diego Jaime listed as the Guardian of the Convent in Pinos, Zacatecas in 1688. However, without hard-core paper connections and Ydna links, we are back to the speculation situation. My goal with this Diego Jaime is to locate a descendant of Diego's brother
Hola a todos:
Hace tiempo escuché que el apellido Jaime se refiere a los descendientes del Rey Jaime I de Aragón. ¿Será posible comparar los resultados con otros de España?
Resultaría interesante ya que dicho rey desciende de los emperadores de Bizancio.
Respecto del cambio de apellido de Romo a Jaime, creo que es posible que niño hubiera sido entregado a la familia Jaime para su crianza. Algunos hijos naturales se depositaban con personas de confianza y se les llegaba a dotar económicamente.
También hay una familia Jaime en Querétaro desde el siglo XVII incluso hay una calle de Jaime (actualmente Allende entre Arteaga y Pino Suarez) pero no localicé ningún Diego.
Saludos
Marcelina
Marcelina - Hola y gracias por los comentarios. El DNA de Jaime no coincide con el DNA de Romo y las pruebas determinaron que Jorge Jaime no es un Romo. Tres hombres Jaime de tres diferentes descendientes de Jorges 'coinciden con muestras de DNA para eliminar la posibilidad Romo.
Amando
maybe mari sandoval olibarri was married to diego jaime and cheated on her husband with a man with the last name romo de vivar.
There are many dispensas with errors. We can't take as fact that Maria Sandoval Olibarri actually married a person named Diego Jaime. Has anyone ever found another document mentioning a Diego Jaime around 1669? Since Jorge was an hijo de padres no conocidos neither the mother or the father claimed the child at baptism. Since no one claimed the child at baptism the surname given to Jorge could have been for any number of reasons. Therefore, when the dispensa was made it could have been assumed that the surname should be Jaime but was actually another such as Romo. There are many too many events lacking documentation other than the dispensa.
I looked up the información matrimonial of Jorge Xaimes since many times the age is mentioned in it. At the bottom of the first paragraph on the left at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12123-157508-22?cc=1502404… in May 1694 he stated he was 25 years old giving a birthdate about 1669. That means the Diego Romo de
Thanks Armando. I took a look at Juan DELGADO's testimony for Jorge JAIME https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12123-157508-22?cc=1502404… and couldn't find any mention of Jorge JAIME's age. On what line is it exactly on the lower left hand side? My eyes must be going.. :-(
So I guess that would leave us with:
Now all I have to do is hit the lottery so I can take the Big Y test. :-P
Do you know of any other ROMO DE VIVAR descendants that have, or are taking the Big Y?
Hello Luis,
I had described the location as "At the bottom of the first paragraph on the left" The testimony of Juan Delgado is the second paragraph. If you look above that paragraph and look at the 3rd from the last line, or the 14th line from the top, you will see "ser de hedad de veinte y cinco años y no firmó por que dijo no saber firmolo su merced dicho señor vicario y juez ecclesiastico."
Maybe in a year they offer a big sale. First we need to see the results of other people that have tested to see how many SNP markers they find for people that have a common ancestor in the last 8-12 generations.
I haven't noticed or been told about any other Romo de Vivar descendants that have ordered the test.
Armando
Well done! I am also a descendant of Jorge, so this is interesting. Unfortunately, I do not get my Y-chromosome or my mtDNA from Aguascalientes, so neither would have been of any help to me.
Thanks!
Scott Stockwell
Congratualtions Luis! Have you contacted Daniel Mendez de Camino? I met him years ago in a FHL. If I recall correctly, the same Jorge Jayme was his brick wall and I'm sure he would love to know what you have discovered. Please let us know of your progress. This line is in my family, too. (Don't know if you remember)
Sherri Mora
Luis Jaime: Of course I remember prima! Great to hear from you! I still check your tree once in awhile to see what's new. ;-) Thanks for the invite.
I vaguely recall something in our conversations about you meeting someone at the FHL but couldn't remember the details. If you could put me in touch with with Daniel I would greatly appreciate it.
If anyone is also related to Maria SANDOBAL ORIBARRI I'd like to hear from the as well.
And thanks again to Nuestros Ranchos, Miguel BELTRAN, Armando ANTUNANO and of course Connie DOMINGUEZ, who I could never thank enough. ;-)
My husband has Villasenor ancestors from Jalisco. His Ancestry DNA results show 19% Italy/Greece. It was not broken down any closer.
Hola Melinda:
La familia Villaseñor se encuentra relacionada con la familia Bocanegra, descendiente de Don Egidio Bocanegra.
Quien al parecer tiene mayor avance sobre esta familia es Richard Ricci. Por mi parte desciendo de los Spínola y los Oria (Doria).
Puedes leer la información sobre el apellido Bocanegra en la página bisabuelos.com
puedes leer sobra las siguientes casa nobles: Condes de Palma del Río, Señorío de la Monclova y Señorío de Guadalcázar, Córdoba.
Saludos
Marcelina
Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
Could someone look at this baptism for Jose Monico Miguel Almeida and tell
me if all 3 couples are the padrinos or if 2 of the couples are
grandparents.
Hi Danny,
The first couple Andrés Pérez and Felipa Morcillo after their name looks
like there's an M or maybe AM with a parenthesis after it, so that may be
the abuelos maternos.
Paige
On Tuesday, November 29, 2016, Danny Alonso wrote:
> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>
> Could someone look at this baptism for Jose Monico Miguel Almeida and tell
> me if all 3 couples are the padrinos or if 2 of the couples are
> grandparents. its right after where it says Jose Monico Miguel hijo de
> Refugio Almeida y de Maria Antonia Peres.
>
> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-65G9-GGH
>
> Danny C. Alonso
I see the same thing … I would even say that the first couple were the paternal grandparents and the last couple were the actual padrinos.
> On Nov 29, 2016, at 3:22 PM, Paige Herrera wrote:
>
> Hi Danny,
>
> The first couple Andrés Pérez and Felipa Morcillo after their name looks
> like there's an M or maybe AM with a parenthesis after it, so that may be
> the abuelos maternos.
>
> Paige
>
> On Tuesday, November 29, 2016, Danny Alonso wrote:
>
>> Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
>>
>> Could someone look at this baptism for Jose Monico Miguel Almeida and tell
>> me if all 3 couples are the padrinos or if 2 of the couples are
>> grandparents. its right after where it says Jose Monico Miguel hijo de
>> Refugio Almeida y de Maria Antonia Peres.
>>
>> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-65G9-GGH
>>
>> Danny C. Alonso
No problem. My guess is that the first couple were the Paternal Grandparents; the second couple were the Maternal Grandparents and the third couple were the Padrinos.
Keep in mind that this is only a guess based on the fact that the word “padrinos” is clearly stated before the third couple.
And that the standard notation for paternal grandparents is “AP" and "AM "for maternal grandparents. Although the first letters are not legible their is definitely a “P" in front of the first couple and an “M" in front of the second couple.
Sometimes all we can get is an educated guess.
Hope this helps.
-Angelina-
> On Nov 29, 2016, at 3:32 PM, Angelina wrote:
>
> I see the same thing … I would even say that the first couple were the paternal grandparents and the last couple were the actual padrinos.
>
>
>> On Nov 29, 2016, at 3:22 PM, Paige Herrera wrote:
>>
>> Hi Danny,
>>
>> The first couple Andrés Pérez and Felipa Morcillo after their name looks
>> like there's an M or maybe AM
Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
on this marriage for Antonio Ramos and Maria Robles it starts on the left
page and finishes on the right.
Hello everyone,
I just noticed there's another word I don't know. could someone tell me
what the word is on the marriange for Antonio Ramos and Maria Robles after
it says el dia de año Nuevo y el domingo. it looks like it starts with an
"L"
If someone knows what the word is that would be great.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DT75-JD
Danny C. Alonso
Hello,
The word is "siguiente" meaning : "the following Sunday..."
Jesus Ramírez.
On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 8:50 PM Danny Alonso wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I just noticed there's another word I don't know. could someone tell me
> what the word is on the marriange for Antonio Ramos and Maria Robles after
> it says el dia de año Nuevo y el domingo. it looks like it starts with an
> "L"
>
> Danny C. Alonso
>
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 4:08 AM, Danny Alonso
> wrote:
>
> > Hello Nuestros Ranchos Forum,
> >
> > on this marriage for Antonio Ramos and Maria Robles it starts on the left
> > page and finishes on the right. could someone tell me what the
> > sentence says after it says resultado impedimento ninguno canonico:
> >
> > https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DT75-JD
> >
> > Danny C. Alonso
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Danny C. Alonso
Thank you Jesus. i appreciate your help
Danny C. Alonso
It states "la quarta echa a los circumstantes despues de haverlos examinado...etc." This is stated on the the records before and after Ramos so it seems like a routine phrase.
Greetings all.
Algunas familias se asentaron tempranamente en Colima. Hay en línea un libro PDF llamado "andariegos y pobladores de nueva españa y nueva galicia s.xvi" de Miguel Romero de Solís, hay varias personas con el apellido Contreras.
Podrías revisarlo, está en orden alfabético. Espero te sirva.
Saludos
Marcelina
He finalice la búsqueda que pdf. Se señalan los miembros de la familia Contreras que vivió en la antigua provincia de Avalos en la Nueva Galicia, cerca del pueblo de Mascota.It hace que yo también podría ser un descendiente de Miguel De Contreras y Guevara.
He buscado a través de las despensas de Guadalajara y me pareció el registro de matrimonio de un Miguel De Contreras Sánchez, que es el hermano de mi antepasado Xptobal (Cristóbal) De Contreras Sánchez. Actualmente estoy pasando por este registro de matrimonio y con la esperanza de encontrar más pistas sobre mi linaje Contreras.
El registro es bastante difícil de traducir. Dice cosas como "tiene parentesco con ALGUNAS Familias nobles" y "emparentado con mucho Familias del".
Tengo enlace al registro de matrimonio aquí.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6554-D?i=184&wc=3J47-C68%3…
Esto es lo que sé ahora. Mis antepasados más antiguos conocidos
I have been looking for my 4th great grandfather Joseph Alvino Contreras whose children were born in Salinas, San Luis Potosi, but I don't know where they lived before, since they married into the Rodriguez Delgado in my maternal line, Rdz from Asientos, Aguascalientes and Delgado from Zacatecas. But Jalisco is nearby and the Contreras were in Abundance and married to everyone it seems.
So I looked at your dispensa de 3er Grado and though I am not great at these old records, I understood that all eligible men were related to her in Grado 4th and up and she was an orphan of a father and her mother had to leave a lot to the mines and she was taken care of by her stepfather Cayetano Peres who had 5 girls to take care of as well so she was poor though her many relatives did help they would not be able to take care of her forever so it would be in the best interest if they (Church) gave the dispensa so he (miguel Contreras) could take care of her.
Petrona de la Pena is related to
So are Catharina Sanchez's parents are Francisco Sanchez and Maria Sanchez? Hopefully I can use this info to track down the name of her husband, Xptobal De Contreras's parents.
While searching the Guadalajara Dispensas marriage records, I found another son of Xptobal and Catharina Sanchez. This child is named Pedro De Contreras, who married Theresa de Amaral in 1732.
Says here that Xptobal is the first cousin of Theresa's mother, Juana De Garcia, through their mothers. Unfortunately, that doesn't give me a maiden name to attach to Xptobal De Contreras.
I feel that I'm so close to a break through. Does anyone else know of available records for Mascota, Jalisco that are earlier than 1750?
In answer to your question FRANCISCA (husband's name not mention) Sanchez had a child name juan de la pena. Juan de la Pena had the Bride Petrona de la Pena
Maria Sanchez (husband's name not mention had Catharina (husband name not mention but is known as Christoval de Contreras per your records as your ancestor) Catharina and Christoval had Miguel de Contreras.
Could you include the dispensa for Pedro de Contreras and Theresa de Amaral of 1732?
I checked for records and did not find any but maybe their dispensa has some info that might help.
I first want to say thank you for the help so far.
Here's Pedro's marriage record.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6L9Y-L9?i=281&wc=3J43-BZ9%…
I've also made a tree for the info being discussed.
http://i.imgur.com/5MJSgtX.png
L5BH-K46 this is record ID in www.familysearch.org. You can also use their names to locate record created with this information of dispensa that is attached. What is odd that there seems to be no records matching at all. They seem to be like those of San Luis Potosi where they have not been worked on. This could mean you will have to find records and add them from the record image since they have not been added. Maybe someone can help find out if the records of Mascota, Jalisco of the early years are located with another town and then if they have been indexed.
The Dispensa states that Theresa Amaral 18 yo Born abt 1714 is pregnant and that Pedro de Contreras 18 to 20 yo born abt 1712 (this is what priest wrote) promised her marriage and has not honored his proposal. She fears her father will kill (lo mata)(not susre if baby or Pedro) She has moved out of the house to the house of Don Thomas de Abalos so that her parents will not try to reach her with little notes as they (thomas
Had no idea marriage records went into that much detail.
You don't happen to know how old Miguel De Contreras was in his record? Maybe by using all their ages, I can determine when Cristobal and Catarina got married.
I have my ancestor Cristobal De Contreras's marriage record to my grandmother (his 2nd marriage) if it helps.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5SSJ-MG?i=427&wc=3JXN-YWL%…
I'm gonna go through all of these microfilms this weekend. A lot of people from Mascota came to San Sebastian for marriage and baptism. Unfortunately there's a gap in the records around the early 1700s and late 1600s. If they're willing to travel that far, makes me think that they're probably wasn't a church until the 1800s in Mascota?
In his IM it does not state he was married prior to this marriage. Christobal is 41 yo and his bride Gertrudis Casares is 18 yo. It also states he was originally from Mascota and is now a citizen of San Sebastian Martir, Encarnacion de Diaz, Jal. of 3 years. The age given is usually off a couple of years for females and sometimes up to 10 years for men (my experience only). His testigos are 50 yo, 49 yo and 36 yo. None of them mentions his prior marriage only that they knew him well and his parents.
His Brother Pedro has a birthdate of around 1712 and women usually had children up to 25 years if they married young (my experience only) All of this together would help you set a timeframe of birth for parents.
Thanks for your help. Ill let you know if I find more info when I search all the marriage records San Sebastian has available.
I had a question: Has all the guadalajara dispensas been indexed yet or is it still in progess? I found the marriage records of Pedro and Miguel via guadalajara dispensas Tumblr.
Btw based on your experience, how common is it for a son to name a child after his father or grandfather? I've seen that happen a lot in my tree. Makes me wonder whether Miguel or Pedro could be named after the father or grandfather of Xptobal De Contreras. IF that's the case, I'll make sure to save any records with those names.
You're Welcome
The following post is from someone much more knowledgeable about the Dispensas you can contact her about them.
By katy_brecht_quesada - Posted on 11 April 2016
sorry i haven't been updating it that often. there are three reasons for that: 1. i've been busier with college 2.i've been getting addicted(for a lack of a better word) to some fb games 3.i've been feeling less motivated to do them since i haven't been able to find new records there relevant to my family tree
but i haven't given up on them yet, but i'll probably continue to be inactive in regards of indexing this collection.
if you are interested in volunteering, feel free to message me.
In regards to the name, Yes, in my experience it happens very often and it becomes so complicated to unravel because priest had a difficult time keeping who was who and which wife belonged to which and then the children. I have an uncle named Miguel Contreras married to bacilia Delgado they have a son name Miguel Contreras
I found a record of a marriage in Mascota in the year of 1758. This is a marriage record of Gertrudis De Contreras and Pedro.
If I'm reading this right,they have 4th grade of consanguinity. Apparently it goes like this:
There are two legitimate sisters of the same parents: Maria De Contreras and Ysabel Garcia De Contreras.
Maria has a daughter named Rosa Maria De Robles. Rosa has a son name Antonio Briseno who has a son named Pedro Briseno, who is marrying Gertrudis de Contreras.
Ysabel Garcia De Contreras has a legitimate son named Xptobal De Contreras, my oldest ancestor. Xptobal has a son named Fausto who has a daughter name Gertrudis.
I'm certain this Xptobal De Contreras is the one married to Catarina Sanchez and fathered Miguel, Pedro, and my ancestor, Xptobal De Contreras Sanchez. The timeline would fit.
My only question is why did he inherit the Contreras name from his mother? Is it possible his father's name is also Contreras? So he'd be Cristobal De Contreras y
Sounds like them! There are just a few questions I have but if you can provide the Dispensa, my questions can be better worded.
There was a thread before about how the people in Nueva Galicia (Mexico) would name their children. I Believe Ricci said something recently, but anyway, from my experience and deduction not proven, Surnames of both parents are used to their convenience. When looking for a person it is best to look under both names. Sometimes, because the priest did not give a father the last name so they went by the mother's surname (this happen most times if one of the parents was an Indian, Mestiso and even a Espanol and many times for women unless it was a very well connected family I read somewhere that a last name of the most prestigious surname was used as a calling card, a last name of the mother to preserve the prestigious family name and I'm sure the membership has many more reasons to add. In working backwards in time, we may not think someone with a certain
After going through the Guadalajara dispensas, this is what I have now. Now I couldn't find direct records but I was able to use marriage records of extended family members through the lines of Cristobal's brothers and sisters, who married people of consanguinity.
1. Xptobal De Contreras Sanches, born around 1702 in Mascota.
2. Xptobal De Contreras, who married Catarina Sanchez and was born around 1670.
3. Maria Ruis De Contreras Garciam who was born around 1640. Her first Husband is believed to
be named Antonio De Contreras. The only record I found that mentioned her husband labeled
him "Antonio De Aguilera". However it list his son as "Xptobal De Aguilera" who married
Catarina Sanchez. This is from a record of two people getting married with 5th degree
consanguinity. The Aguilera name is probably just an error.
4. Diego Ruis De Contreras, who married Petrona Garcia. Diego Ruis De Contreras was probably
born around 1620.
Going back to what you
When I entered petrona garcia and Diego ruis de Contreras a daughter matched with a birthdate 10 MAY 1637 Sagrario Metropolitano,Guadalajara,Jalisco,Mexico. So Diego had to be born sooner abt 1610-15.
I saw the record. Timeline wise, it would totally fit but I find it odd that he's only referred to as Diego De Ruis with no mention of Contreras. I also should note, Diego did have a daughter name Catalina so its likely its him.
I also feel weird about the record that refers to Maria Ruis De Contreras's first husband as Antonio De Aguilera and also refers Xptobal De Contreras as "Xptobal De Aguilera".Aguilera must either be an error or Antonio's maternal name.
Am I suppose to be Ricardo Aguilera instead of Ricardo Contreras? Even if I did inherit Contreras from Maria, according to the record you showed me, idk whether Contreras or Ruis is the right paternal name of Diego. This is like an identity crisis.
Antonio De Aguilera
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XWSG-D?i=403&wc=3J4C-6T5%3…
I reviewed the dispensa. They seem like the same people except for those small variations. I have had many similar finds only to find out they were two separate families. Sisters, Brothers, Cousins, whom marry at the same time and name their children the same name and worst, marry a similar name person making it almost impossible in getting it straight. Only by starting at the beginning of your line, going backwards and confirming each person is the right person until you find the knot you need to unravel of who is who (what I have done other members may have a different or better method)
On your dispensa it mentions he is now a citizen of la Palma. I have family there as well just havent found them, but mi Mama, who has been 99% correct in all she said of her family told me that so and so is from la Palma where some records are included in Salinas del Penon Blanco (later Salinas de Hidalgo changed when Dolores Hidalgo passed through there). The church records started in 1799 when
So your ancestor took the name Rodriguez Perez from his mother probably because it was more note worthy and prestiges than Guanajuato?
I guess that would be the reason Xptobal and his siblings took Contreras instead of Aguilera. However I find it odd that I havent found one record with him as "Ruiz De Contreras" while his cousins did inherit the name from his uncle.
I'm gonna try to find one more record that mentions "Antonio De Aguilera" before I confirm this. I just have doubts because this is from a 5th degree consanguinity from the maternal side of Groom.
Hello Ricardo and primos!
I've done some research on the Contreras lastname because i have some Godó friends with that apellido. Their branch lived mainly in Guanajuato but I think it is very likely that they are related yo those of Mascota because in some generations they also used the complete Ruíz de Contreras Form.
About your concern over being an Aguilera or a Contreras I must tell you that back at that time if a couple had -say- five children it wasn't uncommon that all five were called by different lastnames! There was a lot of liberty about that, the only limitación was that some one of the ancestors in any past generation used the lastname.
For instance I found in PARES-Casa de la contratacion- the récord of Cristóbal de la Rosa a Nueva España" ahí dice que es escribano público, natural de Cazalla, hijo de Juan y de María DE RUAN... y que le acompaña su hijo Diego Antonio DE CONTRERAS!...
Here's another one:
Cristóbal de Contreras, hijo de Juan Muñóz y de Francisca Ortiz, vecinos de Gran Canarias.
One more:
Catalina de Cuevas, natural de Trujillo a Nueva España donde está su marido Juan de CONTRERAS, llevando con ella a sus hijos Gaspar y Juan DE CONTRERAS, Alonso de CUEVAS, DIEGO, Antonia y Estefanía... oct-25-1574
Two more :
Diego DE AGUILAR DE CONTRERAS, portero de la Audiencia de Chile, hijo de Pedro de CÓRDOBA y María de Contreras, a Chile Jan-26-1569
Diego DE CONTRERAS, natural de Escacena del Campo, soltero, hijo de Diego DE QUIRÓS y de Ana NÚÑEZ!... a Santo Domingo... feb-10-1567
In Google books I saw an excerpt of the book "Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara... " by Mrs. Hilton, that shows the following : "... Diego Ruíz de 24 años de edad, natural del pueblo de Mascota, hijo NATURAL de Diego Ruíz de Contreras "el mozo"... "
What happen to the free download of this book on Familysearch. Everyone says you can download it there but I cant find it.
Hey I found the record you mention on the Dispensa.
Diego Ruiz is the son of Diego Ruiz De Contreras, who is the son of Diego Ruiz De Contreras.
lol let me clarify.
Don Diego Ruiz De Contreras, my oldest known ancestor whom I'm currently looking to find his parents, married Petrona Garcia and had two kids. One was Maria Ruiz De Contreras and the other was Diego Ruiz De Contreras II. Diego Ruiz De Contreras II's son, Diego Ruiz, married Josepha Contreras, who's the granddaughter of Maria Ruiz De Contreras. Maria is the mother of Cristobal De Contreras.
The amount of Consanguinity in my family is too damn high. Even to this day, my grandparents were 2nd cousins.
Is the dispensa for the following person diego ruiz de 24 anos whose father is Diego Ruiz de Contreras "el Mozo?" If so did it mention who the mother was? Sometimes the Father is is the only one listed while the mother is not mention to protect her identity and reputation of the family, etc.
Diego Ruíz de 24 años de edad, natural del pueblo de Mascota, hijo NATURAL de Diego Ruíz de Contreras "el mozo".
1. Diego Ruiz de Contreras (not married to mother) + Unknown mother
2. Diego Ruiz married Patrona Garcia who are the parents of
3. Maria Ruiz de Contreras who had Cristobal de Contreras
Diego Ruiz de Contreras had
4. Diego Ruiz married to Josepha Contreras
There are other threads where members have stated the same. Someone stated very well sometime ago on this forum. I can only add that Espanol married Espanol to keep the the door of opportunity open in nueva galacia and only available to an Espanol (there was cleansing of blood, and bogus pedigrees
This is the record. I think his mom's name is Catharina Carabajal, a free mulato.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6LXK-Q?i=92&wc=3J43-DPX%3A…
Says in the record that Diego Ruiz De Contreras was the brother of Maria Ruiz De Contreras. This makes the relationship go like this:
Diego Ruiz De Contreras > Maria Ruiz De Contreras > Xptobal De Contreras > Josefa Contreras
Diego Ruiz De Contreras > Diego Ruiz De Contreras > Diego Ruiz De Contreras > Diego Ruiz
But it also refers to Diego Ruiz's father Diego Ruiz De Contreras, as Xptobal's Sobrino.
As for keeping the bloodline pure. When I went to Santiago De Pinos, two years ago, I stayed in San Sebastian Del Oeste, which is the capital of the municipality where Santiago de Pinos is. While there, I learn that the three most important families in town, Encarnancion, Sanchez and another family I forgot the name of, made a pact right around when Mexico gain independence
You are quite lucky to have someone in the family who saved all those wonderful items of your families past. I noticed the red miners hats. I love those kinds of pictures. No one in my family really put things together of their families and it has been difficult but rewarding to get a picture of my great grandmother and her shawl still in its box only because I asked the person who inherited her house while no one had cared to find out in the family.
If you read some of the history of the European Royalty who intermarried so much that it created deformities, crazy (Juana la Loca) and sterility among other stuff.
Back to your family the Contreras, There are many players now many of them with dispensas that has help put a tighter timeframe.
L5B5-95V is the locator on www.familysearch.com for Jose Christobal de Contreras, it can be search by ID or Name added to your family already on Familysearch. I added what was in the dispensas put it needs your familiarity to put all together
Oh I'm not related to the Encarnacions. I've just met them when I went to see their collections. As I said, they only mixed with the three families there. My Contreras family lost it's pure Espanol Ancestry when Xptobal De Contreras Sanchez married a mulato.
Here, she's a video of the Museum where she explains the pact made by the three families to preserve the bloodline and explains the history of her family.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy2o0gG3ojU
If there's a a small location like a town or village where your family has lived for a long time, I recommend going. I have a funny story about it. When I went to San Sebastian, I met a man and showed him a list of my grandmother's siblings. As he read it out loud, he said "Hijos De Aurelio Guerrero y Francisca Contreras........ Aurelio era la primo de mi mama....Yo soy un Guerrero....Somos Primos". I had unfortunately never met my grandparents but within an hour of being in town, I had already found family. I had met another man who
That makes sense about the last names. Diego Ruiz de Contreras and Petrona Garcia had two daughters with different names: Maria Ruiz De Contreras and Ysabel Garcia De Contreras.
You also have famous people like President Santa Anna who's full name was Antonio de Padua María Severino López de Santa Anna y Pérez de Lebrón despite none of his parents having the name of "Padua".
As for the Ruiz De Contreras in the state Guanajuato, I believe they are probably a separate branch of the family that have a common ancestor with my oldest known ancestor Diego Ruiz De Contreras.
I believe the record that sarod77 should me from Guadalajara of a baptism of one of Diego's daughters is a match. This would mean Diego was probably born around the early 1600s or late 1500s. He was probably from Guadalajara and later moved to Mascota. I know his wife Petrona Garcia also had relatives that lived in Mascota so there was probably a mass migration of people from Guadalajara to Mascota sometime in the mid
Santa Anna's given name Antonio de Padua is in honor of St. Anthony of Padua, not for any of his parents or grandparents.
Chris
From: "ricardo.infante@utsa.edu"
To: announce@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:34 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Last names
That makes sense about the last names. Diego Ruiz de Contreras and Petrona
Garcia had two daughters with different names: Maria Ruiz De Contreras and
Ysabel Garcia De Contreras. You also have famous people like President Santa
Anna who's full name was Antonio de Padua María Severino López de Santa
Anna y Pérez de Lebrón despite none of his parents having the name of
"Padua". As for the Ruiz De Contreras in the state Guanajuato, I believe they
are probably a separate branch of the family that have a common ancestor with
my oldest known ancestor Diego Ruiz De Contreras. I believe the record that
sarod77 should me from Guadalajara of a baptism of one of Diego's daughters
is a match. This would mean
Según dice en la acta que mencionas que dice que Miguel de Contreras español, va a contraer matrimonio con H Petrona de la peña y dice que tienen consanguinidad en 3er grado, eso quiere decir que son parientes o provienen de la misma familia, si buscas en la familia de Petrona también te pudiera ayudar.
Dice también que pide dispensa para casarse con ella, ya que aunque sean familia, donde el vive es familia de todos y lo mismo de ella que donde vive en la navidad, también todos son parientes de cuarto grado para abajo.
que tiene 5 hermanas en la misma situación y que la mantiene su padrastro, ya que no pueden mantener la madre también trabaja.
Miguel se dice de oficio arriero(Eran los señores que traían burros y cargaban cosas de un lugar a otro, algo a si como servicio de fletes, pero ellos regularmente era leña que ellos recolectaban y vendían en los poblados.) y comenta que aunque pobre podrá mantener bien a Petrona.
Gracias por la información sobre Miguel amigo. Lo que sabemos ahora es que Miguel De Contreras y mi antepasado Cristóbal De Contreras Sánchez son hijos de Cristóbal de Aguilera, quien más tarde tomó el nombre de su madre de "Contreras". Cristobal De Aguilera es el hijo de María Ruiz De Contreras. María es hija de don Diego Ruiz De Contreras y de Petrona García. Todos vivían en el pueblo de Mascota. El primer registro que hemos encontrado hasta ahora es un bautismo de la hermana de María, Catalina, cuyos padres aparecen como "Diego Ruiz y Petrona García". Este registro es de Guadalajara en el año 1637. Esto me lleva a creer que antes de vivir en Mascota, Diego Ruiz De Contreras vivió y probablemente nació en Guadalajara a principios del 1600.
Encontré un Diego Ruis que nació de Diego Ruiz De Salamanca y Juana De Ahumada en 1618 en Guadalajara. Creo que podría ser él pero necesito encontrar el registro de matrimonio de Diego Ruiz De Contreras y Petrona García, que ocurrió en algún
Hey guys I found a record from 1672 from the town of cuquio which is just outside of Guadalajara. This marriage record is of a man named Nicolas Ruiz De Contreras. I believe he's a son of Diego Ruiz De Contreras and Petrona Garcia or perhaps a really younger brother of Diego. As stated before, we know Diego and Petrona lived in Guadalajara in 1637 because their daughter was baptized there. After that, they moved to Mascota. I've read the record but I cant find the name of Nicolas's parents. It does say Nicolas is a vecino of Cuquio but not an originario of the town.
Here's the record
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6BFV-K?mode=g&i=209&cc=187…
here is marriage record though cuquio's record does not extend to 1669.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JC69-91P
I've look for his parents name some time ago but did not find them. There has to be a dispensation of 3rd with 4th degree. In your doc. I believe he is trying to get her back but Maria Ruelas (aka as maria de la Campana) her mother is named Jusepa de la Campana (aka Josepha Ramirez) refuses and wishes for an annulment. Her parents forced her to marry him and once married she states that he took her to the mountains and stripped her and hung her on a tree but a neighbor Antonio ruiz stopped the violence and the next day he really tried to kill her by putting her on an aggressive animal and so on.
I was able to find their marriage record that wasn't in the Cuquio, which was located in the in the Diocesis of Guadalajara. Unforantely, it does not name his parents. It does name a town of origin for him but I cant seem to figure out the writing.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DK82-D?mode=g&i=88&wc=3JWP…
What are Capellanias, Ordenes, and Cofradias? Can I find marriage records in those? I think I'm gonna go through the ones in Guadalajara to find Diego Ruiz De Contreras's marriage record.
The following might help with your question though there was another discussion with Manny this past year. I am not there yet in my research so I don't know.
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/23072
As for Nicolas it seems his parents are purposely left out. I only saw that once before with Tiscareno. What I read is that he is
24 years old more or less, probably more. between 1635 and 1645 I would guess.
he is originally from a town I could not read but it has Rl (Rio?)de oct___quis (maybe from Los Contreras in San Luis?)
He lived 8 years somewhere else and 6 years in ?
There is a Dispensa for 3 degree with 4 (can't remember where I read it but I didn't attach it)
Rl means Real. That's what they referred to towns or municipality back then.
There is a Diego Ruis De Salamanca and a Juana de Ahumada who had the following children in Guadalajara:
DIEGO 1618
CHRISTOBAL 1621
Jose 1625
Antonia 1627
NICOLAS 1630
My Diego had his daughter, Catalina/Catharina,in 1637. If he's the son of Diego and Juana, that would make him 19, If this Nicolas is the son of Diego and Juana, that would make him 39.
Hey Sarod. I reread the marriage record that I found of Nicolas Ruiz De Contreras and Maria. Right in the middle it mentions "Pueblo De Mascota". Are you sure that the information is referring to the groom or the bride?
Mascota is where the Contreras family lived prior to when my ancestor, Cristobal, moved to Santiago De Pinos. Mascota is also the location where all these records I found so far in the Dispenas list.
If Nicolas is 24 in 1669, then he would have to be the son of Diego Ruiz De Contreras and Petrona Garcia. We know their daughter was baptized in Guadalajara and I assumed that Diego and Petrona were born in Guadalajara.
Now that it is certain that this Nicolas is most likely the son of Diego and Petrona, I can use the name of this town the record claims Nicolas is naturally from. This town is most likely where Diego and Petrona were originally from. For all we know, this location could be outside of Nueva Galicia.
Only issue is that its hard to figure what the town
I missed the part where he states that at age 8 "Respondio que de edad de ocho anos se fue a vivir este de Rancho? o Yarante? y el pueblo de mascota en con Maria de su madre y de ahi vivio ocho anos y se mudo a (???)al real del albaradon donde estuvo seis anos y en la magdalena y Tequis un ano y un ano en este Tacoltan jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure it is about him. I didnt search for Maria's birthday in other document.
The phrase "Maria de Su madre" is odd. Do you think that means "madre de su madre", as in grandmother? What I do know about Diego Ruiz De Contreras's wife, Petrona Garcia, is that she definitely had family in Mascota because a dispensa said that a husband and bride were related through Petrona and one of her sisters, Lenore Ximenez.
So this is what I know now:
Petrona's family is from Mascota. She marries Diego and had a daughter in Guadalajara. They had Nicolas somewhere before or after in this unknown town we can't decipher. The assumption is that, assuming Nicolas is older than his sister, Catalina, this could be the town of Diego's birth. Maybe Petrona moved there with one of her family members, married him, then went to live in Guadalajara. Then they went to live in Mascota.
-----Original Message-----
From: nggs@nuevagalicia.org [mailto:nggs@nuevagalicia.org]
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 11:33 AM
Subject: Fwd: Hispanic Heritage Project Press Release
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Re: New Member: Yahualica, Cuquio, Nochistlan