TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

I'm working on baptism and marriage records for my Gutierrez and 
Alvares del Castillo families who lived in Tamazula Jalisco from 
1760's to my grandmothers departer to the states in 1923.  I found 
them in Chilchota Michoacan  before that going back to about 1620 or 
so including the maternal lines Morfin, Valencia and Lievana. In 
this town I've found 3 different lines of Gutierrez.  Gutierrez de 
Raya, Gutierrez de Robles and just plain Gutierrez, my line with 
intermarriages with the other two Gutierrez families.  My line of 
Gutierrez are Mestiso with the other two being Espanol.

I'm finding in the records facts that I hadn't seen before and was 
wondering if others have encountered them in other states too.  I'm 
find exclavos Espanoles, that was something I had not encountered 
before.  How would a Spaniard end up a slave?  Another finding is 
how many babies were baptised at home by a regular person when they 
were afraid the baby was going to die or in danger and then later 
recorded by the church. Another thing I found was home marriages, 
usually the home of the bride or groom. One more custom which the 
group helped me understand was the females taking their mothers 
surname while the males took the father surname.  I've even found 
records where the females use their grandmothers surname making 
finding families a real challenge. I've also noticed in the records 
that the person writing the record frequently has his mother, sister 
or himself as the witness or patrino. They were usually not from the 
town simply appearing with their families in the records for long 
periods of time.  Were they emloyees of the church or the city?

Sometimes doing records brings as many questions as answers.  I have 
found that many of the people from this area of Michoacan including 
the towns of Tangancicuaro and Tlasasalca moved to Jalisco.  Im my 
Gutierrez families case they went to the Periban area by 1780 then 
on to Ranchos de los Palos Altos, on to Atoyac then Ciudad 
Gusman/Zapotlan El Grande and then on to Zapotiltic and Tamazula by 
1792 where the first marriage record appears .  Following their 
journey has been very hard with so much moving in such a short time 
period. Unfortunately finding Mestisos, Mulatos and Indio's is much 
harder than following Espanol families so I think I've gone as far 
back as I can on the Gutierrez line.... so on to finding the Espanol 
Morfin and Valencia lines.. I think genealogy is addictive and the 

http://JosephPuentes.com/Rabbit_Snake_BrighterOPT.jpg

I'm a Snake and Figen is a Rabbit

Happy Year of the Dog to you all

joseph

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Jessica Castaneda <migranted@b...> wrote:
>
> I work with migrant workers in my job. I am appalled sometimes at the
> amount of difficulties and prejudices they face. It is virtually
> impossible for those that are illegal to become "legal".

Jessica,

I agree that there are major problems with immigration laws and
standards in the USA, and that these issues need to be addressed. I do
not wish to minimize that at all but simply to observe it is difficult
to get into many, if not most, industrialized countries of the world.
If you are an American, you will find it difficult to get into
Australia, New Zealand (nearly impossible), and some countries in
Europe on a permanent basis. My English, Asian, Indonesian, Turkish,
and Australian friends tell me horror stories about trying to obtain
appropriate papers to "work" here in USA on more than a temporary
basis. Everybody wants to work in a country where if you work hard
enough you will be rewarded.

The kind of immigrants that most countries want are: educated,
skilled, financially stable, and sponsored. It is a Catch-22 here in
the USA for illegals trying to become legals, as it is other parts of
the world given the the above. The "haves" in Mexico stay there, the
"have-nots" look elsewhere.

I offer this only as a perspective. I wish I had an immediate answer
for immigration problems all over the world. The lure of the USA will
continue as long as the economy continues strong and jobs are
plentiful. There is a suggestion that it may be slowing.


Our ancestors were fortunate in a way. My family came here a century
ago at a time when it was fairly easy to do so, and then they worked
themselves to death to give me an opportunity here. I was fortunate.
The prejudices in this world will never cease; the USA is not an
exception and neither is Mexico.

Ed

For those of you who have been waiting, for the Disc, it is now ready 
and will be sent out on Wed. to those who have sent me their addresses 
and money.  

I hope that those who will receive a copy will be able to use the 
information found on the disc.

Jonathan

The immigration issue in the United States goes beyond the Mexican and 
Canadian borders.  The quota's for European countries is much higher 
than for Africa, Asia, Mexico or South America. Granted that times are 
much more frightening for many Americans but this has been going on as 
long as legal immigration has been an issue. If your skin is light you 
have a much easier time getting into this country legally. Times are 
changing but sadly not on this issue.. 
Linda in Everett

Emilie,

The group has been rather quietly lately so I'm using this opportunity
to make an additional comment on the "Dialog of the Dead" play.  I
understand that it might not be directly related to genealogy but
since Joseph brought up the subject I hope nobody will complain.

I have previously expressed an opinion about one experience that could
be common among some of us that are in pursuit of our genealogical
roots:  the contrast between finding our dead relatives and finding
our living relatives.  Relations with our dead are so easy; they do
not prejudge us; they do not make any kind of demands; we just embrace
them as part of ourselves regardless of what, where or who they were
and that's the end of it.  Relations with the living, particularly
those distant living relatives that we rediscover thru our
genealogical endeavors, can be and often are very complicated.  And,
aren't we all related at some point back in time? 

Our prejudices and misconceptions of life usually get in the way and
it isn't easy accepting each other when we have such divergent views
of the world that surrounds us.  We may share common genes but our
outlook on life has been shaped by our experiences and is continually
being influenced by external forces.  Our actions stem from our
individual "perception of reality" and our sense of belonging.

I agree with the views expressed by some members here about how great
and lovable this group and our virtual fellowship is but there's no
denying that "it's a jungle out there" in the real world. There's just
too much polarization and that is reflected in so many aspects of our
societies.  

Take for example the US immigration debate. The underlying motivation
for every migrant, either today or five hundred years ago or five
thousand years ago, has always been to improve one's life and/or get
away from a bad situation.  That has been the norm since who knows
when, even before countries existed as we know them today.  On the
other hand, immigration laws are of more recent creation and can be 
reformed and adapted to the needs and purposes of each country.  What
I find ironic is that some of the most vociferous anti-immigration
proponents like Colorado state congressman Tom Tancredo or radio talk
host Michael Savage, are themselves sons of immigrants.  And I don't
mean from 10 generations ago but 2 and 1 generations ago respectively.
 How selfishly intolerant and xenophobic can humans really become is

I live walking distance to NARA.  I can probably make it over 
sometime this week and look at the film for you.

There was somebody else in the group that I had promised to look 
for.  Can you please help out my memory.  It was a few months back 
but I have not been back since then.


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Chris Pineda <pineda37@y...> wrote:
>
> I know that NARA has the following record available,
> but I was unable to determine if I can order it
> through my local family history center. It doesn't
> appear that I can.
> 
> "A3379. Nonstatistical Manifests Statistical Index
> Cards of Aliens Arriving at Laredo, Texas, May
> 1903-November 1929. 112 rolls. 16mm.---ROLL 77" 
> 
> at:
> http://www.archives.gov/genealogy/microfilm/2005.html#a3379
> 
> I'd prefer not to pay $65 to NARA for a roll that I'm
> not even sure has information on my
> great-grandparents: Nicanor Pineda and Emilia
> Gonzalez. They came from Tlaltenango, Zacatecas to
> Laredo in the 1920s. Can anyone help?
> 
> Chris Pineda
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
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>

Thanks, Carol! Marge:)

On Jan 22, 2006, at 7:23 PM, Carol Turner wrote: