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Linda I understand about them words. I consider myself a Mexican Indian
female. And I dont like it when someone calls me Chicana, Hispanice or
Latina. Because to me I am none of them titles. Just my 2 cents.

              ~~glo~~







From: "Erlinda Castanon-Long" <longsjourney@...>
Reply-To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos] dialoge of the dead?
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:08:57 -0000

Joseph, WOW!!!!

What a great format for airing our concerns about who we are as a
group of people as diverse and any other ethnic group!

My father hates to this day the word "Chicano" because in his younger
days in California it was used in a very negative, gang style manner.
To him it's a put down and very militant.  I guess that's how we pick
up our own racist attitudes, we learn them at home... I still cring
when someone calls me Chicana.. so much to unlearn and with the help
of forums like this I'm getting better!

thank you again Joseph
Linda in Everett






Yahoo! Groups Links

Oh what a photos exposition I went trough! Some tears it cost me. What 
a treasure! Cameras are time machines, the images are frozen but they 
rock and roll a world inside of us, innocent expectators, I traveled 
in the company of unknown people, but maybe it is the influence of the 
feeling "belonging to a group", but felt them like family. It is true 
then "nobody dies until it is forgotten". My mom past the way fiftheen 
years ago and she is so around me, when I see her in photos she is so 
photografed!   Leticia Leon Morales

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
> >
> http://www.historynothype.com/deaddialog.htm
> 
> DIALOG of the DEAD--An Interactive One-Act Play
> By
> Rubén Sálaz Márquez
> 
> © Copyright 2005 by Rubén D. Sálaz
> 
>  Dramatis Personae
> 
> Narrator (female), Chicano, Above-It-All, María (female), Latino, 
> Immigrant (female), Hispano.
> 
> Heckler, Policeman, Immigration Officer (female), Army Soldier,
Sheriff, FBI Agent. Two male stage hands.
> 
> Dual roles:  Heckler/Sheriff; Policeman/Stagehand.
> 
> Scene:  The stage is dark and bare except for the Narrator standing 
> behind an upstage, brightly spotlighted (overhead) podium. 

Joseph,

That play sure is thought provoking.  By personifiying the prevalent
views of different segments of American society in an imaginary (but
realistic) debate, the first reaction from the spectator (or reader)
may be to identify with one of the characters in the play.  

But by the way the author chooses to end all, he's clearly suggesting
that there can be no single winner in such debate, but rather that
everyone involved needs to trascend his/her antagonistic views and
find an alternative higher path. Not an easy task to do, but the play
itself is an encouraging sign that it can be done.

Thanks!

Victor

Erlinda:

The whole Chicano vs. Mexican-American vs. Latin@ vs. Hispanic debate 
is a very contentious one in the United States.  I think that all of 
those terms are very politically laden such that there is no single 
one that everyone would agree with.  There is an interesting episode 
where the renowned author Sandra Cisneros balked at being featured in 
Hispanic magazine because of such a disagreement.  She agreed only 
after the magazine agreed to show her on the cover in a profile shot 
with a fake tatoo reading "LATINA" across her arm.

There is an interesting article on this:

http://www.hispanicmagazine.com/2000/dec/Features/latino.html

I suppose that if you want to designate descendancy from peoples of 
Mexico, Mexican or Mexican-American would be the most precise.  I 
will leave my commentary at that lest I get myself in trouble.

Interesting thing though, I have run across documents where the 
indigenous peoples of the area around Colotlan and Totatiche would 
refer to the indigenous colonizers from the south (Tlaxcaltecs, 
Otomis and Huastecs) as "mexicanos" designating that they spoke the 
Mexican language (i.e. nahuatl) and they did not consider themselves 
as such, since they spoke a different (Tepehuan) language.  One of 
these references appears in an interview with one of the last 
tepehuan speakers in Azqueltan, Jalisco in 1912!

I think that the term Mexican to designate all of the ethinicities of 
Mexico was probably not adopted until after independence.  I imagine 
that those of pure Spanish descent would not consider themselved 
Mexican before that, especially when the term specifically refered to 
the nahuatl-speakers of central Mexico.


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Erlinda Castanon-Long" 
<longsjourney@y...> wrote:
>
> I want to thank everyone for the input on double surnames and y 
versus 
> de... I had forgotten that I use a double surname too!  I felt I 
> didn't want to give up my Hispanic maiden name so just hyphenated 
it 
> with my married name.  That makes me Castanon-Long, I guess in 
Latin 
> America that would make me Castanon y Long ... I found at the 
family 
> reunion that most of my female cousins from my generation did the 
> same.  Many of us did not marry Hispanic but would have kept our 
> maiden name regardless. Just like someone said, it's a matter of 
> family pride..

Joseph, WOW!!!!

What a great format for airing our concerns about who we are as a 
group of people as diverse and any other ethnic group!

My father hates to this day the word "Chicano" because in his younger 
days in California it was used in a very negative, gang style manner.  
To him it's a put down and very militant.  I guess that's how we pick 
up our own racist attitudes, we learn them at home... I still cring 
when someone calls me Chicana.. so much to unlearn and with the help 
of forums like this I'm getting better!

thank you again Joseph
Linda in Everett

I want to thank everyone for the input on double surnames and y versus 
de... I had forgotten that I use a double surname too!  I felt I 
didn't want to give up my Hispanic maiden name so just hyphenated it 
with my married name.  That makes me Castanon-Long, I guess in Latin 
America that would make me Castanon y Long ... I found at the family 
reunion that most of my female cousins from my generation did the 
same.  Many of us did not marry Hispanic but would have kept our 
maiden name regardless. Just like someone said, it's a matter of 
family pride..

One more question.. which is 'politically' correct to designate our 
nationality of origin if we or our ancestors were from Mexico... 
Hispanic, Latino, Mexican-American or American-Mexican?  I find I 
really upset some people when I call myself Hispanic. I'm told that 
excludes my Indio blood... People ask me what my nationality is 
because I'm just brown enough to not be Anglo but have light green 
eyes, my sister get's the same thing and she has blue eyes and 
freckles. I still laugh when told I don't look like a Mexican... what 
does a Mexican look like!!!!

Linda in Everett

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "aajay1073" <aajay1073@y...> wrote:
>
> Ed,
> 
> It is probably not the same Diego Pinedo they you speak of, but I was 
> just wondering if you have additional information on this couple.
> 
> Diego PINEDO married to Juana DE ESCOVEDO.  They had at least one 
> daughter, Augustina PINEDO. She married on 15 Sep 1734 in San Luis, 
> Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico Juan DE AYON, son of Nicolas DE AYON and 
> Petra DE LA MADERA.  This couple had at least five children.
> 
> Thanks,
> Angie
 
Angie,

I unfortunately do not have much information regarding Pinedos. You might ask Arturo 
Ramos who has both Pinedo and Escobedo family ancestors; he already has an amazing 
collection of data.

Ed

Use of the "de" in double surnames.

My wife was a Mexican citizen living in Mexico when I married her.  
Her maiden name was: Isaura Martinez Vallejo.  Martinez was her 
father's last name and Vallejo her mother's.   After we got married 
and she was processing her papers to become a legal resident, her 
name became: Isaura Martinez Vallejo de Gonzalez.  The part "de 
Gonzalez" was added to designate her marriage to a "Gonzalez" That 
is how her name appears on her Green Card and also on her Mexican 
Passport. Once in the United States, she only uses Isaura Gonzalez, 
and that is how it appears on her American Passport and all of her 
legal documents. She is a U.S. Citizen now. 

I lived in Mexico for 10 years and noticed that that was the costum 
( law ? very possible, since that is how it used on official 
documents ) "de" is used like Mrs. is used here.

I believe "de" was also used in a different way when it was part of 
a name of a MALE to designate his place of origin.  Rodrigo Diaz de 
Vivar, better known as "El Cid" was from the town of Vivar, just 
outside of Burgos, in Northern Spain.

Ajay: I hope I answered at least one half of your question. I am 
sure there is somebody in the group with more extensive knowledge on 
this subject.

John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA.

Ed,

It is probably not the same Diego Pinedo they you speak of, but I was 
just wondering if you have additional information on this couple.

Diego PINEDO married to Juana DE ESCOVEDO.  They had at least one 
daughter, Augustina PINEDO. She married on 15 Sep 1734 in San Luis, 
Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico Juan DE AYON, son of Nicolas DE AYON and 
Petra DE LA MADERA.  This couple had at least five children.

Thanks,
Angie

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Serros" <ed@s...> wrote:
> Jessica,
> 
> I have been trying to figure out how to respond to you and to 
Arturo's comments. I agree 
> with what Arturo has said in general. The Valparaiso data is 
indexed well in the Mormon 
> films after about 1880, so it is fairly straight forward after 
those dates; the Internet IGI 
> (familysearch.org data) is another story and is sparse to say the 
least. Before 1880 it is a 
> real crap-shoot, at least for me. My families came in and out of 
the Valparaiso area and I 
> sometimes wonder if that was not the norm, rather than the 
exception. A few months ago I 
> asked one of my patients who grew up in the area about that 
migratory movement of the 
> Valparaiso people and he stated that people moved to where they had 
to go in order to 
> survive. The extreme example of course is a move to the USA. How 
true this is I have no 
> idea.
> 
> I would like to introduce the following type of thinking to the 
group that perhaps we have 
> not discussed much. The surnames (apellidos) typically reflect the 
paternal lines. With the 
> paternal surnames come: Spanish surnames, Spanish Y-DNA, and 
migratory patterns that 
> perhaps can be traced. The maternal lines generally reflect Native 
American Indian 
> processes: NAI mothers, relatively (and I emphasize relatively) 
stable locations, unstable 
> surnames (because of illegitimacy, culture, etc.), and NAI mtDNA. 
> 
> Therefore, it is more and more clear to me that I can more easily 
follow the migration 
> patterns of my paternal (Spanish) ancestors and have less of a 
chance with my maternal 
> (NAI) ancestors. Having said that, my paternal Cerros family came 
to Valparaiso in 1890 or 
> so and were essentially gone by 1920. My Felgueres family, who were 
hacendados, came 
> to Valparaiso in 1855 or so and were essentially gone by 1928. The 
maternal sides, e.g. 

Hello All,

I have added new families to my genealogy over the last year, so I 
decided to update all my files.

Take a look and let me know if you recoginize a name...

Angie Godina


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, ranchos@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> 
> Hello,
> 
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
> group.
> 
>   File        : /Angie Godina <aajay1073@y...>/Angies_Genealogy.htm 
>   Uploaded by : aajay1073 <aajay1073@y...> 
>   Description : Surname and Location List 
> 
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Angie%20Godina%20%
3Caajay1073%40yahoo.com%3E/Angies_Genealogy.htm 
> 
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
> 
> Regards,
> 
> aajay1073 <aajay1073@y...>
>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Angie Godina <aajay1073@...>/Angies_Genealogy.htm 
  Uploaded by : aajay1073 <aajay1073@...> 
  Description : Surname and Location List 

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Angie%20Godina%20%3Caajay1073%40yahoo.com%3E/Angies_Genealogy.htm 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

aajay1073 <aajay1073@...>