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I too have come across instances in the 1500s and
1600s where some siblings took on the surname of their
father and others, their mother's. I have heard some
of the following explanations to account for this:

1)Perhaps their mother's line was more distinguished,
particularly if she was the daughter or grandaughter
of someone famous;

2)Perhaps their father had committed some crime and
some of his children did not want to be associated
with his name;

3)Perhaps the father's line/surname was associated as
being Sephardic and some children wished to disguise
this fact, particularly when the Inquisition came to
Mexico.

Or perhaps it really was not that big a deal back then
to take on one parent's name over the other. I imagine
for most of the Spanish conquistadores and immigrants,
coming to the New World must have been a fluid time in
terms of identity--it was a rare chance to remake
themselves.

Chris Pineda   

--- Arturo Ramos <arturo.ramos2@...> wrote:

> Linda:
> 
> I got some persepective on this issue from Mssrs. de
> la Torre Berumen 
> and Valdes Salazar while I was down in Mexico.
> 
> Apparently, soon after the Mexican independence,
> President Vicente 
> Guerrero (who was mulatto) decreed that all
> Spaniards be expelled from 
> Mexico.  In reality, many were exempted but
> certainly all of those who 
> had been loyalists during the war of independence
> and those that had 
> royal ties (since Mexico was now a republic) were
> expelled.
> 
> Those Spanish families that remained became weary of
> being labeled 
> Spanish and particularly loyalists or royalists and
> thus those 
> with "composed names" such as "Carlos y Godoy" or
> "Fernandez de Jara 
> Quemada" quickly dropped parts of their names to
> mexicanize them.  I 
> think it was somewhat arbitrary which parts they
> dropped.
> 
> On a similar note, I would appreciate hearing any
> perspectives people 
> may have about how children chose whether to take on
> the mother's 
> family name vs. the father's family name.  I have
> run across many 
> instances, particularly in the 17th century where
> children of the same 
> family took on different names, i.e. some siblings
> took on the father's 
> name "Covarrubias" and other siblings in the same
> family took on the 
> mother's name "De La O" so you have siblings with
> different last names.
> 

Linda:

I got some persepective on this issue from Mssrs. de la Torre Berumen 
and Valdes Salazar while I was down in Mexico.

Apparently, soon after the Mexican independence, President Vicente 
Guerrero (who was mulatto) decreed that all Spaniards be expelled from 
Mexico.  In reality, many were exempted but certainly all of those who 
had been loyalists during the war of independence and those that had 
royal ties (since Mexico was now a republic) were expelled.

Those Spanish families that remained became weary of being labeled 
Spanish and particularly loyalists or royalists and thus those 
with "composed names" such as "Carlos y Godoy" or "Fernandez de Jara 
Quemada" quickly dropped parts of their names to mexicanize them.  I 
think it was somewhat arbitrary which parts they dropped.

On a similar note, I would appreciate hearing any perspectives people 
may have about how children chose whether to take on the mother's 
family name vs. the father's family name.  I have run across many 
instances, particularly in the 17th century where children of the same 
family took on different names, i.e. some siblings took on the father's 
name "Covarrubias" and other siblings in the same family took on the 
mother's name "De La O" so you have siblings with different last names.

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Erlinda Castanon-Long" 
<longsjourney@y...> wrote:
>
> I'm hoping you can help me with double surnames.  Is there a 
> difference when they use De or Y? Such as Alvares del Castillo or 
> Ochoa y Garibay?  How long did they usually keep the double surname?  
> I haven't found a reason why some families ended up using the surname 
> they chose.. Villasenor y Jaso, some went Villasenor and others went 
> Jaso.. same family!
> 
> I have gone from records in Tamazula Jalisco to Chilchota Michoacan.  
> So many families from that part of Jalisco came from this area of 
> Michoacan in the later 1700's.  In doing marriage records from there 
> I'm finding it not unusual to have the actual marriage in the home of 
> a family member, was that normal for the mid 1750's?
> Linda in Everett
>

I'm hoping you can help me with double surnames.  Is there a 
difference when they use De or Y? Such as Alvares del Castillo or 
Ochoa y Garibay?  How long did they usually keep the double surname?  
I haven't found a reason why some families ended up using the surname 
they chose.. Villasenor y Jaso, some went Villasenor and others went 
Jaso.. same family!

I have gone from records in Tamazula Jalisco to Chilchota Michoacan.  
So many families from that part of Jalisco came from this area of 
Michoacan in the later 1700's.  In doing marriage records from there 
I'm finding it not unusual to have the actual marriage in the home of 
a family member, was that normal for the mid 1750's?
Linda in Everett

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Arturo Ramos" <arturo.ramos2@v...> wrote:
>
> Jessica:
> 
> I think you are going to have somewhat of a difficult time since I 
> think that the Valparaiso films are not indexed in familysearch.  I 
> know that Ed Serros is researching family in that parrish so he can 
> probably give you some better tips about what to do, but it may 
> entail simply ordering the films and going through them.  Many of the 
> books from the 19th century have indexes by name, so perhaps it is 
> not as daunting as it may seem.
> 
> Good luck.

Jessica,

I have been trying to figure out how to respond to you and to Arturo's comments. I agree 
with what Arturo has said in general. The Valparaiso data is indexed well in the Mormon 
films after about 1880, so it is fairly straight forward after those dates; the Internet IGI 
(familysearch.org data) is another story and is sparse to say the least. Before 1880 it is a 
real crap-shoot, at least for me. My families came in and out of the Valparaiso area and I 
sometimes wonder if that was not the norm, rather than the exception. A few months ago I 
asked one of my patients who grew up in the area about that migratory movement of the 
Valparaiso people and he stated that people moved to where they had to go in order to 
survive. The extreme example of course is a move to the USA. How true this is I have no 
idea.

I would like to introduce the following type of thinking to the group that perhaps we have 
not discussed much. The surnames (apellidos) typically reflect the paternal lines. With the 
paternal surnames come: Spanish surnames, Spanish Y-DNA, and migratory patterns that 
perhaps can be traced. The maternal lines generally reflect Native American Indian 
processes: NAI mothers, relatively (and I emphasize relatively) stable locations, unstable 
surnames (because of illegitimacy, culture, etc.), and NAI mtDNA. 

Therefore, it is more and more clear to me that I can more easily follow the migration 
patterns of my paternal (Spanish) ancestors and have less of a chance with my maternal 
(NAI) ancestors. Having said that, my paternal Cerros family came to Valparaiso in 1890 or 
so and were essentially gone by 1920. My Felgueres family, who were hacendados, came 
to Valparaiso in 1855 or so and were essentially gone by 1928. The maternal sides, e.g. 
Pinedos, may have been there for centuries perhaps---I don't know.

those books looked good to me. make sure to tape
the discussion and I
can make it part of the Nuestra Familia Unida "book discussion" section
[that is if the members vote on this and say yes].

Also the Melungeons book was questionable. Interesting topic but not
related. . .well I guess its possibly related, but only in a speculative
way. It is possible that some of the original people that were slaves on
Drake's ships were Portuguese, Spanish, Turkish, Moors, or other
Mediterranean ethnicity's.

joseph

those books looked good to me. make sure to tape the discussion and I
can make it part of the Nuestra Familia Unida "book discussion" section
[that is if the members vote on this and say yes].

Also the Melungeons book was questionable. Interesting topic but not
related. . .well I guess its possibly related, but only in a speculative
way. It is possible that some of the original people that were slaves on
Drake's ships were Portuguese, Spanish, Turkish, Moors, or other
Mediterranean ethnicity's.

joseph

Jessica:

I think you are going to have somewhat of a difficult time since I 
think that the Valparaiso films are not indexed in familysearch.  I 
know that Ed Serros is researching family in that parrish so he can 
probably give you some better tips about what to do, but it may 
entail simply ordering the films and going through them.  Many of the 
books from the 19th century have indexes by name, so perhaps it is 
not as daunting as it may seem.

Good luck.

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "jesscast1212" <migranted@b...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> My name is Jessica Castaneda. I am just starting to try and do 
> genealogy research on my husbands family from Zacatecas, Mexico. I 
> have worked on my lines before but I feel I am in a completely new 
> ballpark now. I have been reading your postings and am excited to 
be 
> able to learn from you all. A little bit about myself- I have a one 
> year old who is currently teething, my husband and I are in the 
> process of buying a house and moving, and I work coordinating 
> educational programs from migrant children in TN. I met my husband 
> teaching English.That's enough about me.. What I know about my 
> husbands family is this. (not much)
> 
> His fathers name is Crescencio Castaneda-Salazar. Mothers name is 
> Juana Hernandez de Leon. They currently reside in Chihuahua but his 
> father was born in Valparaiso Zacatecas Mexico. Crescenio's father 
> was Antonio Castaneda-Dominguez although some say it was Castaneda-
> Martinez. His wife's name was (this is where it gets confusing) 
some 
> say Teodora Salazar others say Ignacia Domingez. Antonio's father 
was 
> Pedro Castaneda and mother was Ignacia Domingez. They tell me there 
> were two Ignacia Dominguez's but I am skeptical. Everyone seems to 
> tell me different things. They resided in Valparaiso. 
> 
> Crescensio's brothers name is Benancio Soccorro Castaneda.
> Well that's all I know now. Hopefully in the near future I will 
have 
> more information to share. If anyone has any information that you 
> think would be helpful I would appreciate any and all of your 
> thoughts! Thanks.
>

Hi all,
My name is Jessica Castaneda. I am just starting to try and do 
genealogy research on my husbands family from Zacatecas, Mexico. I 
have worked on my lines before but I feel I am in a completely new 
ballpark now. I have been reading your postings and am excited to be 
able to learn from you all. A little bit about myself- I have a one 
year old who is currently teething, my husband and I are in the 
process of buying a house and moving, and I work coordinating 
educational programs from migrant children in TN. I met my husband 
teaching English.That's enough about me.. What I know about my 
husbands family is this. (not much)

His fathers name is Crescencio Castaneda-Salazar. Mothers name is 
Juana Hernandez de Leon. They currently reside in Chihuahua but his 
father was born in Valparaiso Zacatecas Mexico. Crescenio's father 
was Antonio Castaneda-Dominguez although some say it was Castaneda-
Martinez. His wife's name was (this is where it gets confusing) some 
say Teodora Salazar others say Ignacia Domingez. Antonio's father was 
Pedro Castaneda and mother was Ignacia Domingez. They tell me there 
were two Ignacia Dominguez's but I am skeptical. Everyone seems to 
tell me different things. They resided in Valparaiso. 

Crescensio's brothers name is Benancio Soccorro Castaneda.
Well that's all I know now. Hopefully in the near future I will have 
more information to share. If anyone has any information that you 
think would be helpful I would appreciate any and all of your 
thoughts! Thanks. 

I just checked the database looking for those researching certain areas
and couldn't find the info I needed. Can you all make it a point to go
to the database and make your entry into the 'who's who' area? we have
112 members but should be under 100 members after the 31st when the
following addresses get unsubscribed from the group. That means that if
we have 64 entries there are 36 valid members of the group that still
need to enter their who's who information. Its easy and helpful to new
members.

joseph

ps: the following are on track to be unsubscribed if I don't get a
simple email letting me know you are interested in maintaining your
membership and giving me a time frame when you will send in your
representative genealogy file:

   amador_flore...     zapOgram@...

   artalbec     artalbec@...

   cristal828     cristal828@...

   ftworthtexgo... TexGonzales@...

   hugz803     hugz803@...

   jmdldsmty     jmdldsmty@...

   josealfredod...     jjetmech01@...

   laredotxkid     Chuymben1233@...

   marledez     marledez@...

   melaniapezzolla     melaniapezzolla@...

   permotio     orlawyer@...

   rromogen     rromogen@...

   spainireland  spainirelandengland@...

   swtchic517     annie517@...

   tia_chutis     ice__princess@...

http://www.findagrave.com/

i found two relatives using the above site.

joseph

I think the Lulu solution may work for him on upcoming projects, except for the fact that 
shipping the books to Mexico is very cost prohibitive and would therefore make it a bit 
less viable than it would for someone looking to distribute them in the United States... i.e. 
his market in Mexico is not going to go online to order books from the U.S. that will be 
delivered by the Mexican postal system.

The problem that he has with the reprinting of his HIstoria de Totatiche is that he does not 
have an electronic manuscript.  He typed out the whole book and the State of Jalisco's 
Ministry fo Culture transcribed, edited it and had it typeset for printing.  They will now not 
share with him those materials as they consider them their property, though they have 
given him permission to reprint the material on his own.  So basically he is left with having 
the book photographed and reprinted from those photographs if I understand him 
correctly.

I am looking at publishing a historical ethnography of Totatiche and the research I have 
thus far on my father's lineages and have actually ordered proofs (of what I have written so 
far) from Lulu and their product is very good.  Given that one of the manuscripts he is 
preparing is that of the Pinedos in Totatiche (which is my mother's lineage) I may push for 
him to let me cooperate with him in publishing that and going the Lulu route, where I can 
arrange to have sets sent down to him (via my parents or some other courier service).

My father had been purchasing local microhistorical publications for me while he was 
down there and Esteban Valdes had a set waiting for me too, including his sister's history 
of Momax.  I have a few duplicates which I am willing to part with if someone is 
interested... I believe they are the Second Volume of Historia de Totatiche and the 
Sacerdocio, Don Singular book both by Esteban Valdes Salazar.  I will confirm once I 
receive the box of books, which my parents are driving back to Los Angeles and then 
shipping to me.  I also obtained a copy of the new book on the Jaras of Totatiche if anyone 
has lineages there that they would want me to look into.

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Arturo Ramos wrote:
> 
> >I just got back from two and a half weeks in Mexico.
> >
> >Though I did not spend them in "working" on genealogy or historical 

http://nuestrafamiliaunida.com/sneak_peak_David_E_Rencher.pdf

here is a pdf file sent to me by my FHC director on the Scanstone project

joseph

I just got off the phone with my aunt Emilia in New
Mexico.  She called to thank me for the present I sent her, and as usual I started to pump her about the family history.  She is the last of her siblings (my Mother's sister), the only relative of her generation I have left) and she is 92, but sharp as a tack.  We were discussing the fact that her grandmother could read and write, which was unusual for a Hispanic woman born in 1865.  My aunt said my great-grandmother was very smart and talented, not only could read and write, but could sew, cook, make wine, make preserves, and heal with massages and herbs, among some of her talents.  She was also a very devout Catholic, and my aunt told me she still had her grandmother's prayer book, that her grandmother would pray the (ten?) Tuesdays, and my aunt said she also uses the prayer book to pray "the Tuesdays" (to Saint Anthony?).

 

Has anyone in the group ever heard of this practice of "praying the Tuesdays"?  I asked my husband
about it, but he has never heard about it.  We have both heard of Novenas, where you pray to a Saint for nine days straight, but not necessarily on Tuesdays.

 

Emilie Garcia

Port Orchard, WA ----

My de la Torres were also from the Jerez area. My ancestress Doña Juana de la Torre was married to Miguel Olague in the 1600s. We're probably related. Cool! Marge:)

On Jan 6, 2006, at 9:13 PM, Susana Leniski wrote:

<x-tad-smaller>Margarita:</x-tad-smaller>

 

<x-tad-smaller>My great-grandmother was De la Torre. I'm studing last names like Carlos de Godoy, Muro, Carrillo, Salinas and of course de la torre with many lines.</x-tad-smaller>

 

<x-tad-smaller>regards</x-tad-smaller>

 

<x-tad-smaller>susana</x-tad-smaller>

<x-tad-smaller>----- Original Message -----</x-tad-smaller>

<x-tad-smaller>From:</x-tad-smaller><x-tad-smaller> </x-tad-smaller><x-tad-smaller>Margarita Vallazza</x-tad-smaller><x-tad-smaller> </x-tad-smaller>

<x-tad-smaller>To:</x-tad-smaller><x-tad-smaller> </x-tad-smaller><x-tad-smaller>ranchos@yahoogroups.com</x-tad-smaller><x-tad-smaller> </x-tad-smaller>

<x-tad-smaller>Sent:</x-tad-smaller><x-tad-smaller> Friday, January 06, 2006 6:45 PM</x-tad-smaller>

<x-tad-smaller>Subject:</x-tad-smaller><x-tad-smaller> Re: [ranchos] Rita Hayworth</x-tad-smaller>



So what is your Jerezana great-grandma's surname? Marge:)

On Jan 6, 2006, at 2:20 PM, Susana Leniski wrote:

 

So what is your Jerezana great-grandma's surname? Marge:)

On Jan 6, 2006, at 2:20 PM, Susana Leniski wrote:

<x-tad-smaller>On my part, My grand mother Maria de los Angeles Cansino, was the daughter of Don Enrique Cansino. He was the brother of Eduardo's father. My great grandfather emigrated from Malaga, in the Andalusia region of Spain in 1880's. He relocated to Zacatecas, Mexico. He married my great grandmother who was from Jerez, Zacatecas. Genealogy that now I'm researching. My great grandfather left his whole family back in Spain.</x-tad-smaller>