TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

Peggy,

Are Maria Manuela's parents, Juan Domingo RAMOS and Feliciana 
Victoria CARDENAS?

If so, here is their marriage record:

JUAN DOMINGO RAMOS
  Male
Groom's Parents:
  Father:  DIEGO DE SANTIAGO
  Mother:  BERNARDA DE CASAS
Marriages:
  Spouse:  FELICIANA VICTORIA DE CARDENAS
  Marriage:  15 FEB 1733   San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
Bride's Parents:
  Father:  BARTHOLOME DE CARDENAS
  Mother:  CATARINA MORILLO
Messages:
 Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The 
source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage 
date.
Source Information:
 Batch No.:  Dates:  Source Call No.: 
 M604651  1720 - 1751  0443781

Here are some of their children:
+ LUIS BELTRAN CARDENAS
Gender: Male Christening: 03 NOV 1737 San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, 
Mexico 
+ MARIA DE LA CONCEPON. RAMOS CARDENAS
Gender: Female Christening: 14 FEB 1740 San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, 
Mexico 
+ CLEMENTE CARDENAS
Gender: Male Christening: 08 DEC 1747 San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, 
Mexico 
+ PETRA CARDENAS
Gender: Female Christening: 13 MAY 1757 Totatiche, Jalisco, Mexico 
+ JOSEPH ALVINO RAMOS CARDENAS
Gender: Male Christening: 12 MAR 1759 Totatiche, Jalisco, Mexico 

Perhaps here is Maria Manuela's christening (there are no surnames 
listed but all the first names match up and time period):
MARIA MANUELA
  Female
Event(s):
 Christening:  07 APR 1750   San Luis, Colotlan, Jalisco, Mexico
Parents:
  Father:  JUAN DOMINGO
  Mother:  FELICIANA
Messages:
 Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the 
record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by 
the birth or christening date.
Source Information:
 Batch No.:  Dates:  Source Call No.:
 C602862  1744 - 1755  0443672

I have some additional information on Bartholome DE CARDENAS and 
Catarina Morillo's family if you would like to see it.  I am not 
related to this family, as far as I know, but I have been holding on 
to this information because my 6th great-grand father was Bartholome 
De Cardenas married to Barbara Gutierres during this same time period 
in Colotlan.  I can't imagine there being two Bartholome De Cardenas, 
so I thought perhaps they were the same person and he was a widower 
who remarried.  I haven't been able to prove this theroy since I 
can't find either Bartolome's marriage information.  So it is another 
item on my list of things to do/find/verify, etc.

Just in case...here is my Cardenas info, let me know if you recognize 

If you would like to see some of the beautiful eyes in Jalisco, where 
people are complimented for having "Ojos Tapatios", go to gdlclub.com
go the section titled : Editoriales, Especiales and and move your 
pointer down to "Ojos Tapatios," click there and you will see beautiful
"Ojos Tapatios". 



Thank you Gloria!!

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
glo Sandoval-Fuentes
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 11:37 AM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Ojos Tapatios

Janet,

You are both BEAUTIFUL, and tus ojos tanbien!

gloria



               ~~glo~~







From: "janet iglesias" <reynavaleria@...>
Reply-To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Ojos Tapatios
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 09:49:23 -0800




Hi Rosalinda:

I have attached pictures of my daughter and myself. We always hear that we
have "Ojos Tapatios".

 

~Janet Iglesias

Murrieta, Ca.


From: "John Gonzalez" <1gnzlz@...>
Reply-To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
To: <ranchos@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Ojos Tapatios
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 09:39:43 -0800





 

From: lareina2@...
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:40 PM
Subject: [ranchos] Ojos Tapatios


Hi folks,
 
Within a month's time, I have heard two people mention this phrase about my
eyes.  I have never heard this description before, so to hear it twice in a
month was surprising....
 
 
 
Hi Rosalinda:
 
Here is a small sample of  " Ojos Tapatios".  These are four sisters from 
Teocaltiche, Jalisco.  My wife is wearing the black dress.  I am sure there 
are a lot more and more beautiful "Ojos Tapatios" in the Ranchos Group.
 
John Gonzalez
Wildomar CA.
 
1gnzlz@...
 
 


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Janet,

You are both BEAUTIFUL, and tus ojos tanbien!

gloria



              ~~glo~~







From: "janet iglesias" <reynavaleria@...>
Reply-To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Ojos Tapatios
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 09:49:23 -0800




Hi Rosalinda:

I have attached pictures of my daughter and myself. We always hear that we
have "Ojos Tapatios".

 

~Janet Iglesias

Murrieta, Ca.


From: "John Gonzalez" <1gnzlz@...>
Reply-To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
To: <ranchos@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Ojos Tapatios
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 09:39:43 -0800





 

From: lareina2@...
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:40 PM
Subject: [ranchos] Ojos Tapatios


Hi folks,
 

Within a month's time, I have heard two people mention this phrase about my
eyes.  I have never heard this description before, so to hear it twice in a
month was surprising....

 
 
 
Hi Rosalinda:
 

Here is a small sample of  " Ojos Tapatios".  These are four sisters from
Teocaltiche, Jalisco.  My wife is wearing the black dress.  I am sure there
are a lot more and more beautiful "Ojos Tapatios" in the Ranchos Group.

Joseph:

There is software that extracts out Yahoo Group messages into mbox 
format, which can then be read by a number of other software programs:

http://www.tt-solutions.com/en/products/yahoo2mbox/

I think there are also commercial (need to buy software) solutions that 
may do the same.

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
>
> 
> I have a concern and was hoping some of the more tech savy members of 
> the group could help me with. I don't know how to "save" the message 
> archives to another location short of opening each individual message 
> and copying and pasting them into another document. I don't want to 
do 
> that and would like to know if anyone has any ideas on how to save 
them 
> in a faster fluent procedure?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> joseph
>

Susana:

If you read my previous message you will note that there are in fact 
a great deal of records at the Inmaculada parrish in Jerez that are 
not filmed... Leonardo de la Torre Berumen has transcribed a great 
deal of these records but filming them would also be valuable.  I 
don't know if it is going to be possible given the condition that 
they are in and according to Leonardo make them difficult to film and 
is perhaps the reason why they passed them up in the first place.

There are also records in Colotlan that are not filmed.  The priest 
there is obstinate about not allowing access so it would require 
permission from the bishop in Zacatecas.  If you are interested in 
pushing this forward, I would be willing to help.

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Susana Leniski" <susyfarias@c...> 
wrote:
>
> To anyone researching in La Inmaculada/Jerez, Zacatecas
> 
> I have some information that can be valuable for anyone researching 
in Jerez
> 
> 1. THE CASE OF THE 20-25 PAGES OF MARRIAGES
> 
> The first time I reviewed the film # 440059. Matrimonios 1712-1745. 
I noticed that the film started in the middle of the book. I searched 
for the missing pages until I found them. They are in the previous 
film. Film # 440058. Informacion Matrimonial 1961. Yes, you read 
right 1961. In this film after the 1961 information, all the way at 
the end of the film.( You even pass a section in "blank".) There is 
the first roll of film of marriages. There are about 20-25 pages of 
the oldest marriages in microfilm for Jerez (1712), part of the 1st 
book.I already spoke to the expert for Latin-American in the main 
Library in Utah (that was 2 years ago). I hope they will place a note 
in the Library Catalogue in the near future.
> 
> 2. THE CASE OF THE MISSING MICROFILMS
> 
> Recently I spoke over the phone to the person in charge of the 
archives in the Church La Inmaculada in Jerez, Zacatecas. He told me 
that the oldest Marriage that they have is 1697 and Marriage 
Information November 3, 1665. As we know in the LDS Library Catalogue 
the marriages start in 1712 (missing 15 years) and in Marriage 
Information 1789 (missing 124 years). He speculated that when they 
did the microfilming of the records (around 1960) they asked for the 
church "books", and all these information are "single sheets-hojas 
sueltas). During my conversation with him he was flipping the actual 

Susana:

If you read my previous message you will note that there are in fact 
a great deal of records at the Inmaculada parrish in Jerez that are 
not filmed... Leonardo de la Torre Berumen has transcribed a great 
deal of these records but filming them would also be valuable.  I 
don't know if it is going to be possible given the condition that 
they are in and according to Leonardo make them difficult to film and 
is perhaps the reason why they passed them up in the first place.

There are also records in Colotlan that are not filmed.  The priest 
there is obstinate about not allowing access so it would require 
permission from the bishop in Zacatecas.  If you are interested in 
pushing this forward, I would be willing to help.

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Susana Leniski" <susyfarias@c...> 
wrote:
>
> To anyone researching in La Inmaculada/Jerez, Zacatecas
> 
> I have some information that can be valuable for anyone researching 
in Jerez
> 
> 1. THE CASE OF THE 20-25 PAGES OF MARRIAGES
> 
> The first time I reviewed the film # 440059. Matrimonios 1712-1745. 
I noticed that the film started in the middle of the book. I searched 
for the missing pages until I found them. They are in the previous 
film. Film # 440058. Informacion Matrimonial 1961. Yes, you read 
right 1961. In this film after the 1961 information, all the way at 
the end of the film.( You even pass a section in "blank".) There is 
the first roll of film of marriages. There are about 20-25 pages of 
the oldest marriages in microfilm for Jerez (1712), part of the 1st 
book.I already spoke to the expert for Latin-American in the main 
Library in Utah (that was 2 years ago). I hope they will place a note 
in the Library Catalogue in the near future.
> 
> 2. THE CASE OF THE MISSING MICROFILMS
> 
> Recently I spoke over the phone to the person in charge of the 
archives in the Church La Inmaculada in Jerez, Zacatecas. He told me 
that the oldest Marriage that they have is 1697 and Marriage 
Information November 3, 1665. As we know in the LDS Library Catalogue 
the marriages start in 1712 (missing 15 years) and in Marriage 
Information 1789 (missing 124 years). He speculated that when they 
did the microfilming of the records (around 1960) they asked for the 
church "books", and all these information are "single sheets-hojas 
sueltas). During my conversation with him he was flipping the actual 

Susana:

If you read my previous message you will note that there are in fact 
a great deal of records at the Inmaculada parrish in Jerez that are 
not filmed... Leonardo de la Torre Berumen has transcribed a great 
deal of these records but filming them would also be valuable.  I 
don't know if it is going to be possible given the condition that 
they are in and according to Leonardo make them difficult to film and 
is perhaps the reason why they passed them up in the first place.

There are also records in Colotlan that are not filmed.  The priest 
there is obstinate about not allowing access so it would require 
permission from the bishop in Zacatecas.  If you are interested in 
pushing this forward, I would be willing to help.

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Susana Leniski" <susyfarias@c...> 
wrote:
>
> To anyone researching in La Inmaculada/Jerez, Zacatecas
> 
> I have some information that can be valuable for anyone researching 
in Jerez
> 
> 1. THE CASE OF THE 20-25 PAGES OF MARRIAGES
> 
> The first time I reviewed the film # 440059. Matrimonios 1712-1745. 
I noticed that the film started in the middle of the book. I searched 
for the missing pages until I found them. They are in the previous 
film. Film # 440058. Informacion Matrimonial 1961. Yes, you read 
right 1961. In this film after the 1961 information, all the way at 
the end of the film.( You even pass a section in "blank".) There is 
the first roll of film of marriages. There are about 20-25 pages of 
the oldest marriages in microfilm for Jerez (1712), part of the 1st 
book.I already spoke to the expert for Latin-American in the main 
Library in Utah (that was 2 years ago). I hope they will place a note 
in the Library Catalogue in the near future.
> 
> 2. THE CASE OF THE MISSING MICROFILMS
> 
> Recently I spoke over the phone to the person in charge of the 
archives in the Church La Inmaculada in Jerez, Zacatecas. He told me 
that the oldest Marriage that they have is 1697 and Marriage 
Information November 3, 1665. As we know in the LDS Library Catalogue 
the marriages start in 1712 (missing 15 years) and in Marriage 
Information 1789 (missing 124 years). He speculated that when they 
did the microfilming of the records (around 1960) they asked for the 
church "books", and all these information are "single sheets-hojas 
sueltas). During my conversation with him he was flipping the actual 

Oh, how wonderful this report is! Thank you for sharing this! We need to keep this in our rancho archives!!!! I'm willing to send a small donation for republication of Mr. Valdes Salazar's work to keep it alive for us, despite my not having any connection with Totatiche. Why not have him look into the Lulu publications that Joseph, our fearless leader, told us about in one of his messages. It would save Mr. Valdes lots of moola! Marge:)



On Jan 5, 2006, at 10:50 AM, Arturo Ramos wrote:

I just got back from two and a half weeks in Mexico.

Though I did not spend them in "working" on genealogy or historical 
research, as I did have the need to spend time with my family and 
decompress at the beach for some days, I did get a fair amount of 
work done.

I arrived in Guadalajara, Jalisco on Dec. 17.  I met up with my 
brothers and my younger brother's Japanese host-mother to celebrate 
our birthdays in Tlaquepaque with mariachis.  The singer had lived in 
Japan for three years and sang to my brother's Japanese host mother 
in Japanese.

The next day I attempted to visit the Archivos Publicos del Estado de 
Jalisco.  They were closed early because of staff shortages due to 
the holidays.

I headed to Villa Guerrero, Jalisco on Dec. 19 (where my parents have 
now built a beautiful house on the edge of town where they plan to 
live half-time).  The next day, we travelled to Bolanos (a mining 
town dating to circa 1550) at the bottom of the canyon by the same 
name.  The town is is serious disrepair as the mines have been shut 
down for some time and there is no other real source of economic 
sustenance.  There are remnants of beautiful buildings throughout, 
however.

>From there, we headed over the Sierra de los Huicholes to Tuxpan de 
Bolanos (an indigenous wixarika village three hours by dirt road from 
Bolanos) where we explored a very poor settlement that now has 
phones, electricity and running water.  The locals were very shy, but 
we managed to speak to a woman who spoke Spanish who introduced us to 
some handcraft makers.  Noticeably, there is no church in the town, 
as I understand is the case in most wixarika towns.

The next day, my father, Esteban Valdes (cronista of Totatiche, 
Jalisco) and Leonardo de la Torre Berumen (municipal archivist of 
Jerez, Zacatecas) headed to Colotlan to attempt to see and photograph 
the records of the old Franciscan Convent that was founded there in 
1591 and served as the primary base for the missionaries in the 
area.  We waited over an hour for the priest to show up and then he 
called in to say he would not be coming in that day and that we would 
not be allowed to see the records... for no good reason.  I had been 
forwarned that he was not the friendliest of people.  It was a real 
shame because many of the records have not been filmed.

I spoke at length with both of the gentlemen and confirmed suspicions 
that I had a lineage that led to the sister of Miguel Caldera, one of 

It is true.  
The first thing I noticed when I first met my wife
(she is from Los Altos) was her big beautiful brown
eyes.  But of course, most Mexican women have
beautiful eyes.

Alberto Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California

--- "Janet V. Iglesias" <reynavaleria@...>
wrote:

> Hi Rosalinda:
>  
> "Ojos Tapatios" is a great complement. I've been
> always told the same thing
> & yes my family is from Jalisco. It is suppose to
> mean that you have very
> large beautiful eyes. The woman from Jalisco are
> known to have the large
> eyes (it's a trademark). . . and I don't know why
> but it tends to be true if
> you have "Ojos Tapatios" you must descend from
> Jalisco.
>  
>  
> ~Janet
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> lareina2@...
> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:40 PM
> To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [ranchos] Ojos Tapatios
> 
> 
> Hi folks,
>  
> Within a month's time, I have heard two people
> mention this phrase about my
> eyes.  I have never heard this description before,
> so to hear it twice in a
> month was surprising.
>  
> In this first instance, I was at a mall cafe waiting
> for my sandwich when
> the sandwich maker asked me in Spanish if I was from
> Guadalajara, since I
> had "ojos tapatios".  I told him no, and after he
> shook his head, I did
> admit that my family was from Jalisco (my grandma
> was born in Totatiche, but
> grew up in Guadalajara).  He was quite happy, as it
> confirmed his
> description.
>  
> On Christmas, I went to visit the same grandma, and
> there visiting her was
> one of her friends, a Mexican lady.  My grandma was
> talking about me, and
> the lady mentioned that I had "ojos tapatios."
>  
> Now, my family is not just from Jalisco--- I have
> family from Zacatecas,
> Guanajuato, Aguascalientes, Michoacan, and San Luis
> Potosi.  So how did two
> different people know about my Jaliscan descent?
>  
> I never thought of my eyes as beautiful or
> particularly interesting-- they
> are plain brown, but the pupils are large.  My
> optometrist did tell me that
> the reason why I have astigmatism is due to the
> largeness of my pupils (so