TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

Wow Arturo that 1785 Census is so cool! What a discovery. I'm ready to start my part of the transcription. but I can see we need a plan. I'm not going to be able to do but sporatic amounts of work, but what appears to be 300+ pages of which I'm guessing like you said about 150+ pages of the actual Padron Okay I've talked to Arturo and I'm starting at page 89 at the bottom and working toward page 100, but would like to see if I can get to page 110 or 120 by the end of Nov or mid Dec he is what I have so far (p89-90verso/recto) joseph. src="jpgicPWaROIwZ.jpg" border="0">

Attachment:
1785ColotlanCensus_P89-100.xls

Description: MS-Excel spreadsheet

style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">

Glo,

Here is some information:

Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Guadalupe_Hildalgo

Maps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:National-atlas-territorial-
acquisitions.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Territorial-acquisition-uscensus-
bureau.jpg

If the links wrap be sure to recreate in address bar.

- Angie


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "glo Sandoval-Fuentes" 
<gloriafuentes@h...> wrote:
>
> I would like to hear further on this because I always thought that 
Mexico 
> did own California too, like till the beginning of the 1900's?
> 
> 
> 
>                ~~glo~~
> 

I would like to hear further on this because I always thought that Mexico
did own California too, like till the beginning of the 1900's?

              ~~glo~~







From: "Edward Serros" <ed@...>
Reply-To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos] Re: Mexican Border
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 16:32:03 -0000

Angie,

As a point of clarification, the independent country of Mexico owned much of
the
Southwest for only a few decades (1810/1820 time frame to ~1848). Spain
owned the
Southwest for centuries. The only reason I bring this up is that I hear the
statement that
Mexico owned California all the time and I am not sure people remember the
dates well or

Steven,

As an FYI... the Census was posted in the file section and is also 
available in the link section.  As a note, the census doesn't give 
any specific information on families just on landowners/head of 
household.

I too am following the Miramontes Family from Tlaltenango.  Just 
wondering if you want to exchange some info...

Thanks,
Angie


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Steven F. Hernández" 
<Pacorro73@a...> wrote:
>
> I have not checked my email in a very long time, but this email 
caught my
> eye right away.  Lorenzo de Miramontes is my ancestor so I am 
interested if
> it mentions any of his immediate family, as well as the family of 
his
> brothers, sisters, and/or his parents and other children.  
> 
> How would you send such a document?  Would it be a computer file or 
the
> actual copy of the original manuscript?  I will pay you good 
moneyyou're
> your trouble.  Please send it to my email address:
> 
> PacoHernandez73@m...
> 
> I now use this address way more than my aol.com account.  Today 
when I
> logged on I had 427 email messages. I'm not kidding.
> 
> If you require my snail mail address then I will make that 
available to you
> if necessary.  I am very interested.
> 
> Sincerely, 
> Steven F. Hernández
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On 
Behalf Of
> Arturo Ramos
> Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 11:43 AM
> To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [ranchos] Tlaltenango Census
> 
> If anybody is interested, I copied the transcription of a 1650 
> Tlaltenango census this weekend that I can PDF and email to 
whomever 
> would like it.  There is not much in terms of names... only the 
> owners of the "estancias" are mentioned along with the number of 
> people that inhabit each of the "estancias" but there is some 
> interesting geographic, demographic, ethnographic and economic 
> information in it.  The names that are mentioned include:
> 
> Antonio de Castro
> Lorenzo de Miramontes
> Tomasina de Haro
> Hernando Lamas
> Martin Gonzalez
> Juan de Miramontes
> Domingo de Lamas
> Martin Tello de Orozaco
> Martin Lopez
> (los) Melendes
> Francisco de Luna
> Pedro de Solis
> Antonio de Rivera
> Luis Felix Delgado

Ed,

Sorry...I have a tendecy to simplfy things and generalize...  I fully 
understand what you mean.

Thanks,
Angie

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Serros" <ed@s...> wrote:
>
> Angie,
> 
> As a point of clarification, the independent country of Mexico 
owned much of the 
> Southwest for only a few decades (1810/1820 time frame to ~1848). 
Spain owned the 
> Southwest for centuries. The only reason I bring this up is that I 
hear the statement that 
> Mexico owned California all the time and I am not sure people 
remember the dates well or 
> fully understand the entities involved.
> 
> 
> Ed
>

Angie,

As a point of clarification, the independent country of Mexico owned much of the 
Southwest for only a few decades (1810/1820 time frame to ~1848). Spain owned the 
Southwest for centuries. The only reason I bring this up is that I hear the statement that 
Mexico owned California all the time and I am not sure people remember the dates well or 
fully understand the entities involved.


Ed

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "aajay1073" <aajay1073@y...> wrote:
>
> Emilie,
> 
> Just wanted to comment on what you wrote below...I once heard someone 
> with a similar experience as your sister...  There response was "I 
> didn't cross the border it crossed me!"
> 
> Here in Southern California...even though almost all the cities and 
> streets are in Español.  People seem to forget that Mexico use to own 
> all of the Southwest States.  And even though the border was moved to 
> its current location, many of the people stayed.
> 
> As for me, I have been able to successfully trace most of my family 
> ancestors to the 1700's in Colotlan and Totatiche, Jalisco.  I have 
> hit some brick walls but I am currently trying different angles.  My 
> fahter did cross the border, he came to the U.S. in the 1950's during 
> the Bracero program.
> 
> Angie Godina
> So. California
> 
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" <auntyemfaustus@h...> 
> wrote:
> >My sister (born in Colorado as I was) once was told by her boss at 
> work, "Well, Alicia, now that you have adopted this country as your 
> own----".  My sister, aware of our mother's heritage in New Mexico 
> since the 1500's, blew up at him and told him, "My people had been 
> here for hundreds of years when your people were still back in 
> Ireland digging up potatoes!"  I just cannot fathom the arrogance and 
> pride of such ignoramuses.  They think their ancestors were the only 
> explorers and settlers, etc.
> > 
> > Emilie Garcia
> > Port Orchard, WA ----
>

Great Stories Elvira. . .i didn't know about the "No Pago" records but just had a feeling that there were and continue to be an assortment of records in each parish that have not been microfilmed and have not been made available to the general public. Your stories show this is true. Thanks for sharing and keep your accounts coming.

If you ever want to get some of your families oral history recorded and up on my podcast let me know. This goes for others as well, just organize some of the more interesting stories and we'll work out the details of getting them recorded.

thanks,

joseph


elviraz wrote:

Joseph:



You can move me if you want...I need to do a better job of listing my family tree anyway!



Mickey

Joseph:



I go for "fair but restrict'.....we can also join Jonathan's group.



Mickey

Hi, there! I am descended from the Zaldivars you've mentioned below. However, my PROVEN descent from them does not carry forward the Zaldivar surname. My great-grandmother was Francisca Saldivar, d/o Geronimo Saldivar and Petra Gomez; Geronimo Saldivar was the s/o Narciso Saldivar and Maria Antonia Morillo. (It's through Maria Antonia's mother, Juliana del Carmen Villavicencio that my family descends from the Zaldivars mentioned in your note to me.) Narciso was the s/o of Juan Josef Zesario Saldivar and Antonia Rossalia de Llamas; and Juan was the s/o Joseph Saldivar b. around 1700 in Zacatecas and his second wife Maria de la Luz Ortis. Joseph's my Zaldivar brick wall. I don't know anything more about him other than he had sons with his first wife. Sincerely, Marge Vallazza:)



On Nov 8, 2005, at 9:36 AM, José Román González López wrote:

No. But I'm planning to research my ancestors from
Panuco this month.  If I do find any Zaldivars, I'll
let you know.

Albert Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California

--- Margarita Vallazza <TeaCozyGran@...> wrote:

> Do you have any Zaldivars in your Panuco ancestry? 
> Marge:)
> On Nov 7, 2005, at 5:45 PM, Alberto Duarte wrote:
> 
> >
> >  How do you expect Americans to know the history
> of
> >  another country or group when they know very
> little
> >  about their own history?  If you don't believe
> me,
> >  just ask them. 
> >
> >  Emile, you are doing way better than me.  I can
> only
> >  trace my ancestors back to 1675 in Panuco,
> Zacatecas.
> >
> >  Alberto Duarte Prieto
> >  Santa Maria, California
> >
> >  --- Emilie Garcia <auntyemfaustus@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >  > Yes, Arturo,
> >  >
> >  > It is so frustrating to know that Anglos here
> don't
> >  > have a clue about our history.  They are
> amazed when
> >  > I request records for 1640, or mention that I
> just
> >  > downloaded a census for 1650, for example. 
> They say
> >  > "They have records in Mexico that go back that
> >  > far?--Who wrote them?"  (they have no clue as
> to how
> >  > literate and educated the priests and notaries
> >  > public were).  I tell them that I can trace
> some
> >  > ancestors to 1543 (in Panuco, Zacatecas).  I
> just
> >  > can't trace all the lines back that far and
> there
> >  > are such huge gaps sometimes due to the
> upheavals
> >  > caused in the founding of a nation and opening
> up of
> >  > frontiers and the passage of time.  I tell
> them that
> >  > Jerez where my father was born is on the
> National
> >  > Register of Historical Places in Mexico as a
> >  > well-preserved Spanish Colonial city founded in
> the
> >  > early 1500s.  They think their 1620
> settlements in
> >  > Massachusetts are the oldest in the Americas. I
> >  > don't even think they realize how far back our
> >  > pre-Colombian history goes, how complex and
> advanced
> >  > the civilization was for the time.  My sister
> (born

Emilie,

Just wanted to comment on what you wrote below...I once heard someone 
with a similar experience as your sister...  There response was "I 
didn't cross the border it crossed me!"

Here in Southern California...even though almost all the cities and 
streets are in Español.  People seem to forget that Mexico use to own 
all of the Southwest States.  And even though the border was moved to 
its current location, many of the people stayed.

As for me, I have been able to successfully trace most of my family 
ancestors to the 1700's in Colotlan and Totatiche, Jalisco.  I have 
hit some brick walls but I am currently trying different angles.  My 
fahter did cross the border, he came to the U.S. in the 1950's during 
the Bracero program.

Angie Godina
So. California


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" <auntyemfaustus@h...> 
wrote:
>My sister (born in Colorado as I was) once was told by her boss at 
work, "Well, Alicia, now that you have adopted this country as your 
own----".  My sister, aware of our mother's heritage in New Mexico 
since the 1500's, blew up at him and told him, "My people had been 
here for hundreds of years when your people were still back in 
Ireland digging up potatoes!"  I just cannot fathom the arrogance and 
pride of such ignoramuses.  They think their ancestors were the only 
explorers and settlers, etc.
> 
> Emilie Garcia
> Port Orchard, WA ----

There is a 1785 Census of the Colotlan region that is held at the
Archives of Simanca in Spain and has bee digitized.

I was thinking that perhaps we could get a few volunteers from the
group to help transcribe it and then perhaps even publish it.  I think
it would be very useful for many people in the group and as far as I
know, it has not previously been published.

The document can be found on Archivos Espanoles en Red at:

ES.47161.AGS/19.8//SGU,7015,2

Let me know if you are interested in helping out on this project.

There is a 1785 Census of the Colotlan region that is held at the 
Archives of Simanca in Spain and has bee digitized.

I was thinking that perhaps we could get a few volunteers from the 
group to help transcribe it and then perhaps even publish it.  I think 
it would be very useful for many people in the group and as far as I 
know, it has not previously been published.

The document can be found on Archivos Espanoles en Red at:

ES.47161.AGS/19.8//SGU,7015,2

Let me know if you are interested in helping out on this project.