TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

I'm wondering if everyone is participating in the who's who database? if
not please go there now and fill your very detailed info in. But I'm
also wondering if those that are more database savy can answer this. .
.is there room for another catagory without having to redo the whole thing?

Reason I'm asking is that recent events have pointed out that members
should have a place where they can let other members know what areas
outside of the Ranchos Target area they are researching. So If i find
that so and so is searching in Juarez, Chihuahua for Perez well then
I'll fire off a PRIVATE email to so and so telling them about all my
Perez from there.

So what do you think. . .I think you see where I'm going, but no I'm
very very resistent to opening the group up to wholesale research for
the whole world. We are and will remain focused on Jalisco, Zacatecas
and Aguascalientes. But having said that why not lets groom other
group-masters to start their own group for some of the neighboring
states. Nothing says that the different groups can't cross communicate
if the situation dictates there is something in common to both groups.
But then again this sounds good on paper but in reality it might not
work. just my rambling thoughts.

joseph

It's fine with me too.

Carol
--- Margarita Vallazza <TeaCozyGran@...> wrote:

> Jofes, whatever you deem best.  You're the boss! 
> Marge V.:)  I need to 
> redo mine anyway, I think.:)
> On Nov 2, 2005, at 2:44 PM, Joseph Puentes wrote:
> 
> >
> >  Is there anyone in the Ranchos1 files area that
> would be willing to 
> > let
> >  me move your files to the Ranchos2 files area?
> >
> >  thanks,
> >
> >  joseph
> >
> >
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > 	� 	 Visit your group "ranchos" on the web.
> >  
> > 	� 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
> >  ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >  
> > 	� 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> the Yahoo! Terms of 
> > Service.
> >
> >
> 

Jofes, whatever you deem best. You're the boss! Marge V.:) I need to redo mine anyway, I think.:)

On Nov 2, 2005, at 2:44 PM, Joseph Puentes wrote:

Is there anyone in the Ranchos1 files area that would be willing to let

me move your files to the Ranchos2 files area?



thanks,



joseph









YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



▪  Visit your group "ranchos" on the web.

 

▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

 ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Joseph,
You can delete my folder.  I need to post my updates and can do it by 
creating a new folder in Ranchos2.
Maria
--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
>
> 
> Is there anyone in the Ranchos1 files area that would be willing to 
let 
> me move your files to the Ranchos2 files area?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> joseph
>

Is there anyone in the Ranchos1 files area that would be willing to let
me move your files to the Ranchos2 files area?

thanks,

joseph

Apparently, we're related.  I recognized a number of
names of the Fernandez and Fierro families from San
Francisco de Conchos.  Once I get my laptop working
again, my ac/dc module want bad, I'll have access to
my family genealogy listing and I'll get with you.

Happy to know you.

Alberto Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California

--- ranchos@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know
> that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
> ranchos
> group.
>
>   File        : /Yolanda Bobby Perez
> (windrocklili@...)/DESCENDANTS OF HONORATO
> FIERRO.rtf
>   Uploaded by : mexicanfhr <jonathan@...>
>
>  
Description : 
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Yolanda%20Bobby%20Perez%20%28windrocklili%40sbcglobal.net%29/DESCENDANTS%20OF%20HONORATO%20FIERRO.rtf
>
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group,
> please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> mexicanfhr <jonathan@...>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>



     
           
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

href="http://mail.yahoo.com/">http://mail.yahoo.com

Apparently, we're related.  I recognized a number of
names of the Fernandez and Fierro families from San
Francisco de Conchos.  Once I get my laptop working
again, my ac/dc module want bad, I'll have access to
my family genealogy listing and I'll get with you.

Happy to know you.

Alberto Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California

--- ranchos@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> 
> Hello,
> 
> This email message is a notification to let you know
> that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
> ranchos 
> group.
> 
>   File        : /Yolanda Bobby Perez
> (windrocklili@...)/DESCENDANTS OF HONORATO
> FIERRO.rtf 
>   Uploaded by : mexicanfhr <jonathan@...>
> 
>   Description :  
> 
> You can access this file at the URL:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Yolanda%20Bobby%20Perez%20%28windrocklili%40sbcglobal.net%29/DESCENDANTS%20OF%20HONORATO%20FIERRO.rtf
> 
> 
> To learn more about file sharing for your group,
> please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
> 
> Regards,
> 
> mexicanfhr <jonathan@...>
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Yolanda Bobby Perez (windrocklili@...)/DESCENDANTS OF JOSE FRANCISCO SAAVEDRA.rtf 
  Uploaded by : mexicanfhr <jonathan@...> 
  Description :  

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Yolanda%20Bobby%20Perez%20%28windrocklili%40sbcglobal.net%29/DESCENDANTS%20OF%20JOSE%20FRANCISCO%20SAAVEDRA.rtf 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

mexicanfhr <jonathan@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Yolanda Bobby Perez (windrocklili@...)/DESCENDANTS OF JOSE AGUILAR.rtf 
  Uploaded by : mexicanfhr <jonathan@...> 
  Description :  

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Yolanda%20Bobby%20Perez%20%28windrocklili%40sbcglobal.net%29/DESCENDANTS%20OF%20JOSE%20AGUILAR.rtf 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

mexicanfhr <jonathan@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Yolanda Bobby Perez (windrocklili@...)/DESCENDANTS OF HONORATO FIERRO.rtf 
  Uploaded by : mexicanfhr <jonathan@...> 
  Description :  

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Yolanda%20Bobby%20Perez%20%28windrocklili%40sbcglobal.net%29/DESCENDANTS%20OF%20HONORATO%20FIERRO.rtf 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

mexicanfhr <jonathan@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Yolanda Bobby Perez (windrocklili@...)/DESCENDANTS OF AGUSTIN FERNANDEZ.rtf 
  Uploaded by : mexicanfhr <jonathan@...> 
  Description :  

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Yolanda%20Bobby%20Perez%20%28windrocklili%40sbcglobal.net%29/DESCENDANTS%20OF%20AGUSTIN%20FERNANDEZ.rtf 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

mexicanfhr <jonathan@...>
 

OK.  I understand now.  Not an easy knot to untie!

The other interesting finding are your 12/12 matches.  We have to wait
for the 25 marker results to see if those hold up.


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Arturo Ramos" <arturo.ramos2@v...> wrote:
>
> Yes, Victor I realize that the name Aranzazu is Basque, but since 
> this was the name of the adoptive father or Joseph Ramon, it is not 
> necessarily my real lineage.  To further complicate that issue, his 
> adoptive grandfather was an illegitimate child and only took the name 
> Aranzazu, because apparently that is where he was born (Real de 
> Aranzazu in Mazapil, Zacatecas).  His father's name was Juan de 
> Barreda.
> 
> The five full 12-marker matches that I get for my YDNA are:
> 
> Belarus Ashkenazi
> Puerto Rico
> Russia
> United Kingdom
> Unknown Origin Ashkenazi
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "v.h.villarreal" <raices_regias@y...> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Arturo,
> > 
> > You have to follow all the leads in search of the answers you are
> > looking for.  One quick observation regarding your message:  
> Aranzazu
> > is most definitely a Basque surname and while everything is 
> possible,
> > the Basque population is predominatly R1b, with just a mere 2.1%
> > belonging to E3b, so this is something to consider.
> > http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/AJHG_2004_v74_p1023-1034.pdf
> > 
> > Victor
> > 
> > --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Arturo Ramos" <arturo.ramos2@v...> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Victor:
> > > 
> > > This is very insightful and valuable feedback.  I totally agree 
> with 
> > > you that one should not jump to any conclusions on this, 
> especially 
> > > with this haplogroup which seems to be so widely spread and 
> undefined 
> > > in terms of actual "ethnic" identity.
> > > 
> > > I suppose that the most valuable piece of news from this is that 
> it 
> > > gives me some idea as to the genotype of my Joseph Ramon 
> Aranzazu, 
> > > who as "expuesto" and taken in by a family.  The reason why I did 
> > > this DNA test to begin with was to hopefully find someone with a 

the problem might be if you are using a dial up connection. Even with cable RoadRunner it took many seconds which is a long time for RR, but I'd imagine with cable it would be a few minutes of just sitting there letting your computer work to download it. You might want to try downloading it right before you walk away from your computer to do something else. . .come back in an hour and see if its there. Also I was originally using Netscape and needed to switch to Explorer to view the file.

just some ideas,

joseph

ps: when I eventually get around to uploading it to my website I might try breaking it into 4-1megbyte sections if I can.


latina1955@... wrote:

Arturo,

 

I am having problems accessing Ranchos' files - would you mind sending it to me at this email?  I am so curious - even the author might have been related, as I have some of those surnames you mentioned - it is exciting to know that I may be related to some of the oldest families in Tlaltenango.

 

Esperanza

Yes, Victor I realize that the name Aranzazu is Basque, but since 
this was the name of the adoptive father or Joseph Ramon, it is not 
necessarily my real lineage.  To further complicate that issue, his 
adoptive grandfather was an illegitimate child and only took the name 
Aranzazu, because apparently that is where he was born (Real de 
Aranzazu in Mazapil, Zacatecas).  His father's name was Juan de 
Barreda.

The five full 12-marker matches that I get for my YDNA are:

Belarus Ashkenazi
Puerto Rico
Russia
United Kingdom
Unknown Origin Ashkenazi

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "v.h.villarreal" <raices_regias@y...> 
wrote:
>
> Arturo,
> 
> You have to follow all the leads in search of the answers you are
> looking for.  One quick observation regarding your message:  
Aranzazu
> is most definitely a Basque surname and while everything is 
possible,
> the Basque population is predominatly R1b, with just a mere 2.1%
> belonging to E3b, so this is something to consider.
> http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/AJHG_2004_v74_p1023-1034.pdf
> 
> Victor
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Arturo Ramos" <arturo.ramos2@v...> 
wrote:
> >
> > Victor:
> > 
> > This is very insightful and valuable feedback.  I totally agree 
with 
> > you that one should not jump to any conclusions on this, 
especially 
> > with this haplogroup which seems to be so widely spread and 
undefined 
> > in terms of actual "ethnic" identity.
> > 
> > I suppose that the most valuable piece of news from this is that 
it 
> > gives me some idea as to the genotype of my Joseph Ramon 
Aranzazu, 
> > who as "expuesto" and taken in by a family.  The reason why I did 
> > this DNA test to begin with was to hopefully find someone with a 
> > direct lineage to his adoptive Aranzazu family and see if perhaps 
he 
> > was in fact an illegitimate child.
> > 
> > This definitely keeps that door open, as it is definite that this 
> > lineage is of Iberian origin (as was the adoptive father).
> > 
> >
>

Arturo,

You have to follow all the leads in search of the answers you are
looking for.  One quick observation regarding your message:  Aranzazu
is most definitely a Basque surname and while everything is possible,
the Basque population is predominatly R1b, with just a mere 2.1%
belonging to E3b, so this is something to consider.
http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/AJHG_2004_v74_p1023-1034.pdf

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Arturo Ramos" <arturo.ramos2@v...> wrote:
>
> Victor:
> 
> This is very insightful and valuable feedback.  I totally agree with 
> you that one should not jump to any conclusions on this, especially 
> with this haplogroup which seems to be so widely spread and undefined 
> in terms of actual "ethnic" identity.
> 
> I suppose that the most valuable piece of news from this is that it 
> gives me some idea as to the genotype of my Joseph Ramon Aranzazu, 
> who as "expuesto" and taken in by a family.  The reason why I did 
> this DNA test to begin with was to hopefully find someone with a 
> direct lineage to his adoptive Aranzazu family and see if perhaps he 
> was in fact an illegitimate child.
> 
> This definitely keeps that door open, as it is definite that this 
> lineage is of Iberian origin (as was the adoptive father).
> 
> 

Victor:

This is very insightful and valuable feedback.  I totally agree with 
you that one should not jump to any conclusions on this, especially 
with this haplogroup which seems to be so widely spread and undefined 
in terms of actual "ethnic" identity.

I suppose that the most valuable piece of news from this is that it 
gives me some idea as to the genotype of my Joseph Ramon Aranzazu, 
who as "expuesto" and taken in by a family.  The reason why I did 
this DNA test to begin with was to hopefully find someone with a 
direct lineage to his adoptive Aranzazu family and see if perhaps he 
was in fact an illegitimate child.

This definitely keeps that door open, as it is definite that this 
lineage is of Iberian origin (as was the adoptive father).


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "v.h.villarreal" <raices_regias@y...> 
wrote:
>
> Arturo,
> 
> Now we have another thing in common: E3b.  To compare your numbers
> with mine and with other E3b individuals go to this link
> http://www.familytreedna.com/public/freemanDNAProject
> 
> I noticed that you quoted a thread from a while back where we 
discuss
> DNA testing and ethnicity.  I'm sure you're not the kind of person 
to
> draw hasty conclusions and that is good because E3b is not a
> haplogroup without controversy.  Misconceptions abound, particularly
> that one created by applying the wrong sematics to the field of
> genetics.  What I mean is the misuse of the word "semitic" as an
> adjective applicable to haplogroups E3b and others. 
> 
> This has been the source of much debate in circles dedicated to
> discussions about population genetics and genealogy.  It is true 
that
> a case can be made for a Sephardic ancestry, but just as easily a 
case
> can be made also for a Moorish, Berber,  Phoenician, Gypsy, Roman,
> Macedonian, Greek, etc.  ancestry, because this haplogroup can be
> found in so many cultures and places that were at one time or 
another
> in contact with the Iberian peninsula.  In other words, E3b does not
> automatically equates Sephardic lineage or anything else.  But if 
your
> family history reveals a strong tradition or other elements linked 
to
> Judaism then you can safely add your haplogroup as another argument
> towards that conclusion.
> 
> Just in case you haven't already searched and found these sites 

Arturo,

Now we have another thing in common: E3b.  To compare your numbers
with mine and with other E3b individuals go to this link
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/freemanDNAProject

I noticed that you quoted a thread from a while back where we discuss
DNA testing and ethnicity.  I'm sure you're not the kind of person to
draw hasty conclusions and that is good because E3b is not a
haplogroup without controversy.  Misconceptions abound, particularly
that one created by applying the wrong sematics to the field of
genetics.  What I mean is the misuse of the word "semitic" as an
adjective applicable to haplogroups E3b and others. 

This has been the source of much debate in circles dedicated to
discussions about population genetics and genealogy.  It is true that
a case can be made for a Sephardic ancestry, but just as easily a case
can be made also for a Moorish, Berber,  Phoenician, Gypsy, Roman,
Macedonian, Greek, etc.  ancestry, because this haplogroup can be
found in so many cultures and places that were at one time or another
in contact with the Iberian peninsula.  In other words, E3b does not
automatically equates Sephardic lineage or anything else.  But if your
family history reveals a strong tradition or other elements linked to
Judaism then you can safely add your haplogroup as another argument
towards that conclusion.

Just in case you haven't already searched and found these sites about E3b.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...hg/YCC_E3b.html
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...l/haplo_e3b.htm

I'll keep in touch!

Victor


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Arturo Ramos" <arturo.ramos2@v...> wrote:
>
> I just got back the first set of results for my Y-DNA-12 marker and 
> it places my paternal lineage in the E3b haplogroup... This 
> haplogroup is related to ethnic groups originating in Southern Italy, 
> Southeastern Europe and the Middle East.  Looks like this is a 
> Sephardic lineage.
> 
> I will be getting back the remainder of the markers (13 through 25) 
> as well as the MtDNA (matrilineal) results in a couple of weeks.
> 
> I saw from previous posts that group members' maternal lines tend to 
> be Haplogroup A. Is that correct?
> 

Arturo,
Please send us a copy of your Tlaltenango Census.  Thank you 
Rich and Kitty Cortez
Rocklin, CA 


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Arturo Ramos" <arturo.ramos2@v...> 
wrote:
>
> If anybody is interested, I copied the transcription of a 1650 
> Tlaltenango census this weekend that I can PDF and email to 
whomever 
> would like it.  There is not much in terms of names... only the 
> owners of the "estancias" are mentioned along with the number of 
> people that inhabit each of the "estancias" but there is some 
> interesting geographic, demographic, ethnographic and economic 
> information in it.  The names that are mentioned include:
> 
> Antonio de Castro
> Lorenzo de Miramontes
> Tomasina de Haro
> Hernando Lamas
> Martin Gonzalez
> Juan de Miramontes
> Domingo de Lamas
> Martin Tello de Orozaco
> Martin Lopez
> (los) Melendes
> Francisco de Luna
> Pedro de Solis
> Antonio de Rivera
> Luis Felix Delgado
> Mencia (la vuida mulata libre)
> Pedro Garcia de Morones
> Pedro Lopez
> Tomas Gonzalez
> Bernave Sanchez
> Antonio Miramontes
> Francisco Bohorques
> Diego Gregorio
> Isabel Ruiz
> Cristobal Cabral
> Critobal Garcia Roldan
> Felipe Diaz de Santiago
> Nicolas de Haro
> Tomas Vela
> Martin Gonzalez
> Lorenzo de Miramontes
> (los) Munoces (Munoz)
> Juan Figueroa
>

I just got back the first set of results for my Y-DNA-12 marker and 
it places my paternal lineage in the E3b haplogroup... This 
haplogroup is related to ethnic groups originating in Southern Italy, 
Southeastern Europe and the Middle East.  Looks like this is a 
Sephardic lineage.

I will be getting back the remainder of the markers (13 through 25) 
as well as the MtDNA (matrilineal) results in a couple of weeks.

I saw from previous posts that group members' maternal lines tend to 
be Haplogroup A. Is that correct?

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Victor Villarreal" <vela_este@y...> 
wrote:
>
> Emilie,
> 
> As always, it is evident that you're doing your homework and usually
> marching one step ahead of the rest of us.
> 
> Like yourself, I have been most intrigued by all those stories that
> you mentioned about the early Spanish colonizers, particularly more 
so
> when I realised that the Y haplogroup to which I belong to is not 
the
> typical Western European haplogroup but one that is, as I previously
> said, very widespread all around the Mediterranean sea, including
> North Africa, the Middle East, the Balcans and, of course, the 
Iberian
> Peninsula.
> 
> As I understand many of our group here have not studied this topic 
in
> detail, I felt compelled to point out a couple of facts that I 
believe
> could be helpful to all:
> 
> Ethnicity is not determined alone by your DNA haplogroup.  In other
> words, having "X" haplogroup does not automatically place you in any
> ethnic group, regardless of all those ancient stories.  If your
> genealogical and historical research shows documented ancestral
> evidence of certain ethnicity AND your genetic testing shows a
> haplogroup correlated to the same ethnicity then you can start to
> assume the possibility that your ancestors might have been indeed 
such
> and such ethnicity.
> 
> By the same token, physical phenotype (physical traits like eye, 
hair
> or skin color, etc.) is not dependent or necessarily correlated to
> genetic haplogroup either.
> 
> Hope this helps. One important advice for all is not to jump to easy
> conlusions right away.  ;)
> 
> Victor
> 
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" 
<auntyemfaustus@h...>
> wrote:
> > Joseph,
> > 
> > That is so interesting about the DNA Project.   
> >