TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

In the early 50's they did a Posada at the Catholic church in our 
town, Stockton Ca. that had the largest Mexican population.  My 
brother and cousin were both 5 years old and recruited to be 'Indios" 
for the Posada which was made up of children only.  We still laugh to 
this day about how humiliated these macho little boys were to be 
dressed in white pants and shirt and have an orange crate full of my 
dish's strapped on their backs.  They went to different 'stations' 
asking for help but were refused until they got to the church where 
they asked and were admitted.  Everyone got a bag with an orange and 
some popcorn after.  Sadly that's all any of us remember about the 
Posada.  The tradition was discontued by the church by the 60's.... 
another lost tradition from Old Mexico....
Linda in WA.

I am in favor of a file of research tips - where all the wonderful and 
helpful tips can be consolidated or listed. I need all the help I can 
get :)!

Natalie Coleman, VA

I found these lyrics in the liner notes of a CD - "Diciembre en 
México"

Las Posadas/Entren Santos Peregrinos (Title)
(Note: J= Joseph; R= respondants)

J:  En el nombre del cielo, os pido posada,
    Pues no puede andar, mi esposa amada.
R:  Aquí no es meson, sigan adelante,
    Yo no puedo abrir, ne sea algún tunante.
J:  No seas inhumano tennos caridad,
    Que el Dios de los cielos te los premiara.
R:  Ya se pueden ir y no molestar.
    Hace mucho frío y no me he de parar.
J:  Mi esposa es Maria Es Reina del cielo
    y madre va a ser del Divino Verbo.
R:  ¿Eres tú Jose? ¿Tú esposa es Maria?
    Entre peregrino. No les conocía.

    Entren Santos Peregrinos reciban este rincon.
    No de esta pobre morada sino de mi corazón.

    Abranse las puertas rómpanse los velos
    Que viene a posar El Rey de los cielos.

    Entrad pues esposos, con satisfacción,
    Que os damos posada  con el corazón.


I hope this helps. The CD (1994) is by Donna Peña.

Natalie Coleman, VA

Angie,

I forgot to mention in my last post about one thing that I like in the
Legacy software, which is the Merge function.  That really helps to
trim up your records, find and eliminate duplicate persons or families
with slightly different names and other things.

By the way, regarding the use of the percentage sign as a wildcard,
now that you asked me if it is the same as leaving a blank field I
feel like a total fool.  However, I'm totally positive and I could've
swore that when I started using the IGI database if you left blank
either the first or last name fields you'd get an error back.  So I'm
assuming that they made a code update that I wasn't aware of.  Anyway,
when I find the time I'll try to write down a few other tips for those
who are new to these searching tools.

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "aajay1073" <aajay1073@y...> wrote:
> Victor,
> 
> Too funny...when I started working on my family tree in 1998, I did 
> create my own program, which I still use today.  But my program 
> doesn't do all the fancy charts and reports.  So I was going to add 
> that to my program when I found the PAF program.  I liked the reports 
> and tools in that program so instead of adding that functionality to 
> my own program, I created a tool to convert the data in my program to 
> a GED file and I then import it into a PAF file.  All this probably 
> sounds confusing but it works for me.  The reason I haven't gotten 
> rid of my own program is cause it still does things that PAF doesn't 
> do...and besides it has sentimental value...jk... :-)
> 
> Talk to you later,
> Angie Godina
> 
> 

Victor,

Too funny...when I started working on my family tree in 1998, I did 
create my own program, which I still use today.  But my program 
doesn't do all the fancy charts and reports.  So I was going to add 
that to my program when I found the PAF program.  I liked the reports 
and tools in that program so instead of adding that functionality to 
my own program, I created a tool to convert the data in my program to 
a GED file and I then import it into a PAF file.  All this probably 
sounds confusing but it works for me.  The reason I haven't gotten 
rid of my own program is cause it still does things that PAF doesn't 
do...and besides it has sentimental value...jk... :-)

Talk to you later,
Angie Godina


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "v.h.villarreal" <raices_regias@y...> 
wrote:
> Angie,
> 
> So we have one more thing in common, eh?  Our interest in databases
> and programming, besides having ancestors in Colotlán, Totatiche and
> Tlaltenango.
> 
> I have PAF 5 but I use it mainly to export my Gedcoms to a Palm 
Pilot.
>  The software that I'm currently using for my genealogy is Legacy 5,
> which I believe is a very complete application.  When I started
> compiling my genealogical data I considered creating my own data
> tables and user interface in Access, but after trying Legacy I
> realized that it would be an enormous time investment to create an
> application from scratch with all that functionality so I changed my
> mind.  
> 
> What I'm storing is Access are the batch numbers of the church 
records
> I'm currently researching, which at present include only a few from
> the State of Nuevo León. 
> 
> Regarding the information at FamilySearch, actually there are 
several
> databases, of which the IGI is just one.  But their databases are 
not
> Access based, that's why the Access default wildcard does not work. 
> The wildcard for the IGI database is the percentage sign (%) but you
> have to use it just by itself as a substitute for a whole word, that
> is, not as a substitute for single letters within a word. For 
example,
> 
> First Name: %
> Last Name: Raygosa
> 
> You can apply other filtering criteria as usual.  I've tried using 
the
> wildcard in the Father, Mother and Spouse fields but it doesn't 
always
> work; I think it is better to fill those one at a time in each query

I can highly recommend all three books--Hank Jones is a gracious person and an interesting speaker. Marge Vallazza:)



On Aug 23, 2005, at 12:28 PM, Josie T. Trevino wrote:

 



<x-tad-smaller>Hi Emilie!</x-tad-smaller>

<x-tad-smaller>Your message (below) is very interesting and very helpful, especially to me!  I also experience the same "right frame of mind" that you refer to except that I say that "my ancestors are talking to me!".......sometimes it is by way of a dream or a feeling I get!  I know it sounds weird but it is true!  To get back to "reality"  :-)   the article you refer to is George R. Ryskamp's book "Finding Your Hispanic Roots" which is still available for sale.   On another note, there are two books I highly recommend on this subject of "frame of mind" etc......they are two books by Henry Z. Jones, Jr.  One is "Psychic Roots" and the second is "More Psychic Roots"</x-tad-smaller>

<x-tad-smaller>I enjoy reading all the messages and want ALL OF YOU to know that I appreciate it very much!  That is one of the things I like most about this group....the unselfish sharing and willingness to help!  I am certain that ALL our ancestors are having a ball watching us!    :-)</x-tad-smaller>

<x-tad-smaller>Josie Trevino Trevino in San Antonio, TX</x-tad-smaller>

<x-tad-smaller>================================================================================================</x-tad-smaller>

<x-tad-smaller>Message: 7</x-tad-smaller>

<x-tad-smaller>Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 05:24:44 -0700</x-tad-smaller>

<x-tad-smaller>From: "Emilie Garcia" <auntyemfaustus@...></x-tad-smaller>

Angie,

So we have one more thing in common, eh?  Our interest in databases
and programming, besides having ancestors in Colotlán, Totatiche and
Tlaltenango.

I have PAF 5 but I use it mainly to export my Gedcoms to a Palm Pilot.
 The software that I'm currently using for my genealogy is Legacy 5,
which I believe is a very complete application.  When I started
compiling my genealogical data I considered creating my own data
tables and user interface in Access, but after trying Legacy I
realized that it would be an enormous time investment to create an
application from scratch with all that functionality so I changed my
mind.  

What I'm storing is Access are the batch numbers of the church records
I'm currently researching, which at present include only a few from
the State of Nuevo León. 

Regarding the information at FamilySearch, actually there are several
databases, of which the IGI is just one.  But their databases are not
Access based, that's why the Access default wildcard does not work. 
The wildcard for the IGI database is the percentage sign (%) but you
have to use it just by itself as a substitute for a whole word, that
is, not as a substitute for single letters within a word. For example,

First Name: %
Last Name: Raygosa

You can apply other filtering criteria as usual.  I've tried using the
wildcard in the Father, Mother and Spouse fields but it doesn't always
work; I think it is better to fill those one at a time in each query
if you have available data or just leave blank.  Play around a little
bit and you'll soon be doing wonders.  Like I said previously, for me
the easiest and most productive way to search the IGI is entering the
batch number for the locality and date period and then run a lot of
queries changing the filtering criteria, trying different spellings,
using the wildcard, etcetera, etcetera, until I exhaust all possibilities.

Just imagine how great it would be if we were able to obtain all batch
numbers from the Family History Library Catalog, instead of having to
run a generic search and then guessing them by trail and error.  That
is one of the other things that I don't understand about the thinking
behind the designers and/or administrators of Familysearch.  But I
guess we can't have it all, can we?

Un Saludo Cordial
Victor Villarreal


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "aajay1073" <aajay1073@y...> wrote:
> Victor,
> 
> I have experienced the same issues as you.  It is very frustrating 

My grandaughter participated in a posada in December
2000 dressed as the Holy Family. The group sang in a
procession around the church, neighborhood, park...
asking for a place to stay representing Mary and
Joseph as they did before JESUS was about to be born. 

Jose Munoz  Yuba City, Ca
--- Emilie Garcia <auntyemfaustus@...> wrote:

> My husband, who grew up in El Paso, TX, remembers
> Posadas there in the 1940's when he was a small boy.
>  For some reason, just the other day, he was singing
> a song they used to sing during these Christmas
> processions.  The children would go from house to
> house, dressed as the Holy Family seeking shelter
> for the night, and when they would knock, the
> residents would sing (in Spanish), "Who goes there? 
> Maybe it is someone come to rob us?", and the
> participants in the procession would sing back, "It
> is Jose and Maria, seeking shelter", then they would
> be invited in for refreshments, etc.  I wish I could
> relate the lyrics in Spanish.  I will ask my husband
> later to write them down.  For some reason, he
> remembers the Posadas fondly (and not just at
> Christmas, it seems) a good memory from his
> childhood.
> 
> Emilie Garcia
> Port Orchard, WA.---Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN
> Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
> 



		
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
 

Emilie,

Yes, it takes a lot of manipulating of surnames to find people.  
There was a previous post regarding all the tricks.  Check out 
message #155 from about two years ago for part of them.  I personally 
like the "exact spelling" check box.  It has lead me to many break 
throughs...

Good luck on your search,
Angie Godina

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" <auntyemfaustus@h...> 
wrote:
> Recently I sat down after a long time away from browsing the 
FamilySearchcom's IGI database, and after many years of searching, I 
found three more generations back on my father's side who were from 
Tepetongo, Zacatecas, and all in one sitting.  I had tried looking 
for these people for years, but had no luck, and they were there all 
the time. I guess the other day their spirits were with me (I do 
beseech them to show themselves), and they wanted to be found.  It is 
funny that sometimes I can find people in the IGI, for myself and 
others, and sometimes I can't.  
> 
> Shortly after learning my way around the IGI, I started really 
digging up stuff.  By trial and error, and thinking out of the box, I 
discovered ways to locate my Mexican ancestors in the IGI.  I guess 
by studying the naming customs in Mexico and the way the transcribers 
think, I developed a sense of how they may be listed.  I think it is 
George Ryskamp that has an article somewhere that I recently read on 
how to navigate the IGI for ancestors in Mexico, and the process is 
pretty much what I developed for myself, but he couldn't list every 
clue in detail.  As usual, I had to learn the hard way before I found 
his article.   
> 
> I don't know how to explain my system, but it works most of the 
time.  How I have lapses sometimes is something I can't explain.  I 
have to be in the right frame of mind, I guess; I just get a feeling 
that this is the time I will find something.  Maybe the brain needs 
to refresh itself or something.  My husband sometimes asks me why I 
stay so late on the computer some days, and the other day I told him 
that I was on a roll on the IGI and couldn't quit since I was 
searching a thread that contained thousands of people, making me go 
from one page to the next, and if I dropped the thread, I would not 
be able to go back to that series in the IGI since I could not 
reconstruct how I found it in the first place.  Sometimes I go 
through lists of thousands to find one ancestor, but it is worth it, 

Victor,

I have experienced the same issues as you.  It is very frustrating 
not to be able to download more than 50 records.  Also I own the VRI 
cds and they have the same limitations, except the cap is 100 
records.  As a mentioned in a previous post, I tried to download all 
the records into my family tree program and then reconcile them.  
Except, (i am little slow, and...) it took me a while to realize that 
even though I would tag over a hundred records it was only 
downloading the first 100.  Had to throw out that work and start 
again, since I couldn't figure out which records I was missing.  So I 
started again and downloaded a 100 records at a time.  But then I 
realized that I was downloading some records twice...argh...  
Needless to say...I gave up.  Couldn't figure out a good way to do it.

I wish I had access to the raw data.  Then I could manipulate it as I 
pleased.  I figured since I had the cds, it must be on there 
somewhere.  But I have not been able to figure it out.

I imagine that the reason they have the cap at 50 records is because 
anymore would put a strain on the server...well not more then 50 but 
if you think about it... 100's of people each downloading more then 
50 would put a strain on the server.  But I don't know why there is a 
cap on the cds...

This is what I have done for myself.  All the information that I get 
from IGI/VRI I have placed it in a Access database that I have 
created.  This gives me an easy flexible way to search the data.  
Once I put all my data in Access, which is over 6000 records, I 
created a program that converts this information into a GED file.  
Then I open the GED file in PAF.  Well I only needed to do that part 
once.  Now I have all my data in an Access database and PAF.  I use 
PAF for the reports and tools and I use access for cataloging my data 
and searching through it...which allows me to find more records, etc, 
etc...

I imagine that all the information on familysearch website is in some 
database...I wish...that I had access to the raw data instead of the 
download records...I can work wonders with databases... ;-)

Thanks,
Angie Godina

P.S.  I haven't been able to get the wildcard to work...and I have 
tried them all...


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "v.h.villarreal" <raices_regias@y...> 
wrote:
> Jonathan,
> 
> Good to know about your work.  When it comes to doing research on 
the
> IGI, I've always wondered if it would be possible to query the

Hello Emily,

Thanks for sharing.  I have learned practically all of the tricks of
searching the IGI, including the one you wish to know:  the wildcard.
(%).  It works fine in the First Name and Last Name fields.  But don't
tell anyone that I told you!!

The best way to search the IGI is by batch number.  The problem is you
first need to build your own database of available batch numbers for
the locality that you're searching.

Un Saludo Cordial
Victor



--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" <auntyemfaustus@h...>
wrote:
> Recently I sat down after a long time away from browsing the
FamilySearchcom's IGI database, and after many years of searching, I
found three more generations back on my father's side who were from
Tepetongo, Zacatecas, and all in one sitting.  I had tried looking for
these people for years, but had no luck, and they were there all the
time. I guess the other day their spirits were with me (I do beseech
them to show themselves), and they wanted to be found.  It is funny
that sometimes I can find people in the IGI, for myself and others,
and sometimes I can't.  
> 
> Shortly after learning my way around the IGI, I started really
digging up stuff.  By trial and error, and thinking out of the box, I
discovered ways to locate my Mexican ancestors in the IGI.  I guess by
studying the naming customs in Mexico and the way the transcribers
think, I developed a sense of how they may be listed.  I think it is
George Ryskamp that has an article somewhere that I recently read on
how to navigate the IGI for ancestors in Mexico, and the process is
pretty much what I developed for myself, but he couldn't list every
clue in detail.  As usual, I had to learn the hard way before I found
his article.   
> 
> I don't know how to explain my system, but it works most of the
time.  How I have lapses sometimes is something I can't explain.  I
have to be in the right frame of mind, I guess; I just get a feeling
that this is the time I will find something.  Maybe the brain needs to
refresh itself or something.  My husband sometimes asks me why I stay
so late on the computer some days, and the other day I told him that I
was on a roll on the IGI and couldn't quit since I was searching a
thread that contained thousands of people, making me go from one page
to the next, and if I dropped the thread, I would not be able to go
back to that series in the IGI since I could not reconstruct how I

Jonathan,

Good to know about your work.  When it comes to doing research on the
IGI, I've always wondered if it would be possible to query the
database thru a more flexible or versatile user interface, like one
that could use a greater number of filtering criteria, among other things.

I don't understand either the reasons, for example, of limiting the
download of recordsets to 50 records at a time.  Why aren't we allowed
to download a full recordset by batch number instead. Just imagine if
we could process a batch of records at once and have some kind of
tools to normalize and reconcile all the records in a whole book!  

That would be a blessing not only for genealogists but for the Church
 own purposes and everyone else.  Short of being able to display
online the digital image of the parochial records, these are some of
the things that I would like to see.  Just some thoughts!

Best Regards!
Victor Villarreal

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "mexicanfhr" <jonathan@m...> wrote:
> Victor,
> 
> I am in the process, of developing my own tools.  Because several
> years ago, I went to the FHL in Salt Lake, looking for some tools. 
> And I was told that what I was looking for did not exist,  And that if
> I wanted it.  I would have to write myself.  So That is what I am
doing.  
> 
> And I figureed who should know better about what researchers need and
> want, that people who are doing reseach.  And that is why I was asking.
> 
> Jonathan
> 

When I was a kid, we use to go to Momax, Zacatecas every other 
Christmas Break.  We would spend about 2-3 weeks in Mexico visiting all 
the relatives.  In Momax, they would celebrate the Posada.  At the end 
they would pass out candy, peanuts and oranges to all the kids...happy 
memories... ;-)

Also, regarding a previous inquiring relating to "Day of the Dead."  My 
family didn't celebrate this ritural from the way I see people 
celebrating today, but they did go to the cementery on "All Saints Day" 
and/or "All Souls Day", which is the same day as "Day of the Dead".  
Normally they would take a reef of flowers and pray the rosary.

Just my two centavos...
Angie Godina

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
> 
> someone asked me about the "Posada" ritual.
> 
> maybe it was happening around me in CA when I wasn't looking but for 
the 
> life of me I don't know anything about this. Can someone give me a 
clue 
> as to whether or not my relatives living in the 18th century and 
being 
> from Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes were involved in 
a "Posada" 
> ritual?
> 
> joseph
> 
> ps: how was that for making the question on target?

Victor,

I am in the process, of developing my own tools.  Because several
years ago, I went to the FHL in Salt Lake, looking for some tools. 
And I was told that what I was looking for did not exist,  And that if
I wanted it.  I would have to write myself.  So That is what I am doing.  

And I figureed who should know better about what researchers need and
want, that people who are doing reseach.  And that is why I was asking.

Jonathan

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "v.h.villarreal" <raices_regias@y...>
wrote:
> Hello Jonathan,
> 
> Could you please elaborate a little on your question.  Are you
> currently developing research tools on your own or do you mean tools
> at familysearch, etc.?
> 
> Victor
> 
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "mexicanfhr" <jonathan@m...> wrote:
> > Hello Everyone,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I wanted ask, the Ranchos, Juarez, and Mexicanfhr groups,  what
> > research helps or tools, would you all like to see developed.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Jonathan

I grew up in the Los Angeles area in the 40's, moved to Compton, CA for 
a few years, then to Cucamonga, CA in 1952. I do not remember that my 
family practiced the Posada tradition, but seem to remember that we may 
have attended a "Posada" on Olvera Street during the Christmas season. 
I remember attending "Posadas" in Mexico City in the early 60's. I love 
the concept of the posada, but it always seemed like a lot of work to 
put it into practice for just my family.
Now - how about "La Pastorela"? Is this strictly a tradition in the 
southhwest? Again, this is not a tradition that was a part of my family.
How about yours?
Y'all have a good day. Take care.

Natalie in VA

-------- Original Message --------

Subject:	The "Posada" Ritual
Date:	Mon, 22 Aug 2005 01:49:57 -0500
From:	Joseph Puentes <makas@...>
To:	LosRanchos <ranchos@yahoogroups.com>

someone asked me about the "Posada" ritual.

maybe it was happening around me in CA when I wasn't looking but for the 
life of me I don't know anything about this. Can someone give me a clue 
as to whether or not my relatives living in the 18th century and being 
from Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes were involved in a "Posada" 
ritual?

joseph

ps: how was that for making the question on target?

ERROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Sorry...when I was in SLC last year........I somehow got into some film that had padrones from Jalisco/Zac area.....these were put together by Dr. Doug Inglis and filmed.....I cannot for the life of me....find them....I will try to find the film in Utah.....it was the first time I had seen the census  of that area...????

Somehow or another my filing system leaves a lot to be desired!!



Mickey