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What does all this mean?

Paul J Gomez
Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2014, at 5:54 PM, zacatecano020@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> I was browsing the archives and did a search, "flota de indias" to see the list and the description on the side:
>
> http://oi58.tinypic.com/20r07l0.jpg
>
> And the painting of the port from the view of the flota de indias:
>
> http://oi57.tinypic.com/28ho5mq.jpg

Joseph ---- thank you for that nice compilation of flash mob entertainment. Merry Christmas to you and yours.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> From: makas@nc.rr.com
> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; Ciudad_Juarez@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 16:03:39 -0500
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Otros: FlashMob - Feliz Navidad
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3TEkacYXUk FlashMob Mexico
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuNl50hUrs0 y otro
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>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAr2WNbB9LU Guadalajara Guadalajara
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tM6vzucp-c Xalapa FlashMob
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>
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> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ew68O4bSGc Japonesa
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> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIvGGEvjjZ4 Mariachi Samurai
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>
>
> joseph
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>
>
>
>
> Joseph Puentes
>
> Clean@h2opodcast.com
>
> http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html
>
>
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>
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>

Alfonso Reynoso Rábago

Raúl:

A mí también me cuesta mucho trabajo creer lo que dices respecto a los porcentajes de tu ascendencia y la de los mexicanos con relación a ser sueco-alemanes. La empresa que hizo el estudio de tu ADN, ¿no te jugó una vacilada, fue una tomadura de pelo? Basta con que examines los archivos parroquiales (están todos en FamilySearch.org) durante la colonia y te darás cuenta que más de la mitad de la población de los niños bautizados, los hombres y mujeres casados y los registros de defunciones en las parroquias de Los Altos de Jalisco son o indios o mulatos o mestizos o de otras castas. La población española de Los Altos de Jalisco hasta la Independencia de México no llegó a ser mayoría en ninguna comunidad, excepción hecha de Tepatitlán donde llegaron a ser un poquito más de la mitad españoles al final de la época de la colonia. La sangre india y la sangre mulata y de otras castas forma parte de la sangre de los alteños actuales. Los registros de ADN de los

los franceses estuvieron en los altos 2 años. les gustaba mucho la
paranda. algunos era muy educados y serios. Raro el que les rentaran una
casa por que tenian fama de fiesteros y en dos años por ahi dejaron un hijo
o dos pero nada de una significante descendencia. Mas bien existe una
gran descendencia de sangre española. predominante judia en los altos de
jalisco

2014-12-04 18:57 GMT-06:00 :

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> Nuestros Ranchos General

Hola Raul,

Ya hay un proyecto de ADN para la gente de Los Altos y otro proyecto de ADN
de los estados de Jalisco, Aguas, y Zacatecas en FamilyTreeDNA. Ya son
muchos participantes y varios han hecho el análisis de ADN con las tres
compañías que hacen el análisis de ADN que son FTDNA, 23andme, y
AncestryDNA. De todas esas personas nadie tiene 80% de mis antepasados eran
Sueco-Alemanes. Tengo que ser sincero y no puedo creer que alguna compañía
te ha dado ese porcentaje. Es mas, ninguna de esas compañías tiene
Sueco-Aleman como uno de los posibles resultados. Tampoco tienen Celtico
¿Con cual compañía te hiciste el análisis? No lo hiciste con uno de las
principales compañías.

No es cierto que el promedio de ADN Sueco-Aleman entre los Mexicanos es el
48%. ¿De donde sacaste ese dato falso? Es cierto que muchos mexicanos
tienen el norte de Europa como uno de los resultados de su ADN pero todos
los españoles también lo tienen. Entonces los mexicanos lo tenemos por
medio de los españoles. Eso

The records for both of the marriages of Francisco Gutierrez de Hermosillo
were in Jalos. The first record is at
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18447-204-85 and the second is
at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18447-9-6

Armando

On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 5:16 PM, Ronald Reynoso wrote:

> Hola Raza, I am trying to find out if Francisco Gutierrez de Hermosillo
> who married Maria Dolores Gomez de Mendoza on Nov.19, 1730 in Tepatitlan
> and Tomasa Garcia on Dec.03. 1714 in San Juan de Los lagos is the same
> Francisco Gutierrez de Hermosillo. I couldn't find the marriage in
> Tepatitlan to see if it state that Francisco was a widower of Tomasa
> Garcia but couldn't find it nor the record of the one in San Juan de Los
> lagos. Either I am blind or some body made an error.
> Thank you for time and thank you Joseph.
>

Francisco Gutierrez de Hermosillo married Tomasa Garcia de Hermosillo first then Maria Dolores Gomez de Mendoza. I wrote a detailed book that studies the "Gutierrez de Hermosillo" family, which is my direct paternal line. It includes 13 chapter, one per family all the way back to the mid 1550's to the present. It's sold on amazon and is titles "Los Gutierrez del Rancho El Molino"

http://www.amazon.com/Los-Gutierrez-Rancho-Molino-Spanish/dp/1477640843…

Los Gutierrez del Rancho El Molino, ensayo historico y genealogico de una familia alteños desde los 1570 al presente

If you are interested in censos from Jalos from the 1600s

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-key…

Padrones de Jalos en Amazon de 1649, 1650, 1670, 1672, 1673 y 1679

Sergio Gutierrez

In Mexico a least, the denomination of mulato was given to many different racial mixes, not just those coming from african-erupean couples. investigating all the family members with this denominations lets us know many times what was the actual background, in many cases there where simply mestizos, but my theory is that their european side (spanish in this case) was likely a mix of it with arab/jew/indu and or the mix of any of these, also I come to believe that many mestizos of darker skin where called mulatos, I've seen families of "coyotes" often called mulatos. If we take in account that many "spanish" where in fact mix already with the arabs, africans and other races, we come to a fact that after the conversion there were many dark-skined spanish, I would suggest these where some of those later called in Mexico mulatos too.

Another important fact is that the way of denomination doesn't follow the "cast rules" this is that the child of an spanish and a native would not

Ronnie,

I was reading a book on Mexican history (can't remember which one right now)
that was saying that the various revolutions took many of the indios and
mulatos, and those that were left were not enough to work the haciendas. I
image that could account for a good number.

And, I think that the term "espanol" is often misunderstood. I have seen so
many lines where there is a mixed marriage and then a couple generations
later they are "espanoles" again.

Just my two pesos :)

-Angelina-

-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Reynoso
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2014 2:14 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Los Altos -Mulatos ??

Hola Linda , I understand that the Espanoles kept to themselves but by
looking at the records ,there are tons of Mulatos to the point( I think)
there could of been some Mulato Groups/colonies/Individuals still around, It
looks like they were magicians and went poof,gone . For in example :I was
told by a distant

Hi Ronnie,
I'm not sure what year, but probably about 1810 (around revolutionary times), there must have been an effort to stop racial labeling on official
and church documents. I have even seen people referred to as "cuidadano" on civil baptismal records.
I've come across that all over Mexico just about then. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?
Alice
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 12/19/14, Ronald Reynoso wrote:

Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Los Altos -Mulatos ??
To: "general@nuestrosranchos.org"
Date: Friday, December 19, 2014, 4:14 PM

Hola Linda , I understand that the
Espanoles kept to themselves but by looking at the records
,there are tons of Mulatos to the point( I  think)
there could of been some Mulato Groups/colonies/Individuals
still around, It looks like they were magicians and went
poof,gone .  For in example :I was told by a distant
relative who lived in   El Rancho del 
Refugio (between  San Miguel el Alto, San Jose de

yeah records can be inconsistant with the race classifcation part

There is nothing incestuous here, as surprising as it might seems for us in this days. On one side, the word incest itself do not imply only consanguineous relationship, although it was later taught in that way, hence its actual meaning, in the old days (including the Bible times when marrying within the family was the norm for some cultures) it actually refer to an illicit relationship within the family, this is without contentment, premarriage or when involving affairs. The Catholic church actually had follow this concept for the longest but the latter puritan influences (specially those of the USA) had turn the eyes away from this even if some type of relationships still legal (and pretty much natural like cousin marriages) on many countries, that including Mexico. The rules where also carefully made in order no to affect people of power and wealth to whom consanguineous relationships where no just common but politically and economically important, there are some lines that where

Does it have an index or anything such that it would say what towns are included?

I have thought of ordering this film as well, because it might shed some light where the church records go cold.

Thanks!

Sergio Salés

Hi Bill, Christopher and everybody in this group.

I want to share you what I've learned about the cases of "hijo de padres no conocidos".

In my case, my 5th great grandfather, Don Luis de Agraz, was listed in his marriage record as "español, hijo de padres no conocidos y de niño expuesto en la casa de Don José Lino de Agraz" this means that apparently he was adopted. The woman with whom he married was suposed to be his first cousin, Doña María Valentina de la Cueva y Ramírez de Prado, but a dispensa wasn't required because he was not the son of Doña Juana Mauricia de la Cueva y Benavides, José Lino's wife.

Okay, so at this moment I thought that was the end of my most important branch in my family tree because it's my first surname. When I checked, the book that my uncle Gabriel had written about my family, I saw that he was able to find the baptismal record of Luis. He was listed as "Luis Dionisio Rafael, español, de dos días de nacido, hijo de padres no conocidos y fueron sus

Christopher,

I just found the "Información Matrimonial" for Francisco Xavier Calvillo and María Michaela Macías, which include their declarations as well as those of three witnesses who knew them well. It confirms that Francisco Xavier Calvillo was "hijo de padres no conocidos" and that the parents of María Michaela Macías were Juan de Santiago [Macías] and María Gertrudis Gómez. Notice that Francisco Xavier and María Michaela declared to be 21 and 18 years old respectively, so they were born ca. 1732 and 1735. These dates will help you in your research. The link is as follows:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11707-152264-60?cc=1410092…

BILL FIGUEROA

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Figueroa
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos]Calvillo, Macías, Ponce, Vásquez, Garcia

Christopher,

I almost missed your message because you sent it under a different subject line. It is important

Christopher:

There is a similar case of Francisco Xavier, Is Augustin Manuel Calvillo, son of "Padres no conocidos", but according to a descendant of his, was probably the illegitimate son of one of the priests surnamed Calvillo, who were very influential in this region at their time.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12048-124774-65?cc=1410092…

Lo que das fructifica. Lo que te guardas se pudre.
Miguel Beltran

Hello Christopher,

First of all, welcome to the group. I'm sure in this forum you'll find many people with excellent knowledge of genealogy willing to help you. Unfortunately, my research has been focused on the founders and early settlers of Aguascalientes, so I don't have all the information you're looking for. However, I did find the marriage record for Francisco Xavier Calvillo and María Michaela Macías (Matrimonios 1750-1755, Images 134-135 of 246) which mentions who their parents were. The link is

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-13033-120401-21?cc=1410092…

In this record, the parents of Francisco Xavier Calvillo are said to be unknown (hijo de padres no conocidos) which suggests that he may've been an illegitimate child. The parents of María Michaela Macías are listed as Juan de Santiago and María Gertrudis Gómez. Both Francisco Xavier and María Michaela are said to be "españoles" living in Aguascalientes at the time of their marriage.

I've

I have had good results with it and I don't regret it but every person is going to have a different experience. Instead of using chromosome browser use a free program called Genome Mate that makes it easier to triangulate on matches by chromosome. It can be found at http://genomemate.org/

AncestryDNA.com doesn't even have a way to determine which chromosome and region you and your matches have in common. Only FTDNA and 23andme have that ability. You can see how some bloggers use both AncestryDNA and FamilyTreeDNA for finding matches and triangulating on them at http://dna-explained.com/2014/11/30/chromosome-browser-war/ and also at http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/2014/12/the-folly-of-using-small-…

The ethnic makeup is in a screen called myOrigins and it does need another update. The previous update fixed some problems but created some more. Part of what they broke was the percentage of Native American because they didn't use Pima, Maya, and Colombians as

no don't. i paid $39 and i regret it. the myorigins results for my mom were weird, and most of her matches didn't have trees. also i found their chromosome browser too hard to use.

I assume when you state Sevilla it actually is Cádiz. I say that because Sevilla does not border the atlantic or Mediterranean. Cádiz was the most powerful port city in Spanish history.

Daniel

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 15, 2014, at 7:43 PM, zacatecano020@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> There are three ports in Spain that were there during XVI period:
>
> Puerto San Sebastian:
>
> http://oi60.tinypic.com/142fsp2.jpg
>
> Puerto Santander:
>
> http://oi57.tinypic.com/2ym9bm1.jpg
>
> Puerto Sevilla:
>
> http://oi58.tinypic.com/s3zkte.jpg
>
> Included are the three pictures. Most of the spanish explorers that arrived to Zacatecas were from the Basque region from "Gipuzkoa" such as Francisco Ibarra, etc.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gipuzkoa
>
> The ports of San Sebastian and Santander are located in the northern side of Spain near the Basque region. So I wonder if that is where they embarked rather than Sevilla which is at the very south side of Spain.
>

I've seen this cases of mix records, specially among the older ones, even worst, some had been indexed but just the "christening" side making it look like there is nothing else within the film, it is until one browse the complete records that we find such information. Luckily for me (if I must put it that way) I realized this the first time I ever browse a film, it was a mere coincidence but it kept me aware of it afterwards.

The sealed document is the accounting records concerning the wealth left by Don Vicente de Saldivar, captain and a miner, who apparently owed lots of money to the crown and many other people, the other people (many captains) are trying to get their payments before the authorities take them all, this type of documents were meant to be in the Spanish Archives but I guess this one never made it.

RJ Quiralta

Nice find, there it shows Nombre de Dios as the Frontier of Nueva Galicia, that place would be later on the Durango side, One of my ancestors went from there to Nochistlán, I also remember seen other similar surnames in that town, like Juaragui, de Frias, Lozano, Rdz de Santa Ana. I read before about the actual location back in the days but is the first time I see it on the map.

RJ Quiralta

It looks odd at first but if you look carefully, it is an abbreviated/stylized way of signing, the letter that looks like an A is actually a Q, with the @ in top that would (in this specific case) means UI but understood as UIA, completing the MIZQUIA name. Plus the century off, but is interesting how a misread can lead to a different but actual real name, been there myself many times.

RJ Quiralta

Thanks Katy. This is a tremendous resource! I'll be glad to help with indexing.

Thanks again.
Austin Perez

Katy, Thank You so much for your hard work and for sharing this. Does this new site have new film that was not indexed on the other site?
Thanks