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Thank you.

Alberto Duarte
Santa Maria, California

--- zendean <usa20@...> wrote:

> Alberto;  Thank you for your various replies to my
> postings over the months 
> past. This is a site filled with good people. You
> are one.
> 
> I live in Whittier,  California
> 
> Again, thank you,
> 
> Jose Luis Macias
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Alberto Duarte" <albertodua@...>
> To: <ranchos@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 3:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: Altos de Jalisco
> 
> 
> > Don't feel left out.  My wife is from Los Altos
> and
> > never heard of my last name (Duarte) until she met
> me.
> >
> > Alberto Duarte
> > Santa Maria, California
> >
> > --- latina1955@... wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> My husband's surnames include Rocha, Ortiz,
> >> Madrigal, Duarte.  I have
> >> started doing some research, but have not taken
> the
> >> serious time yet.   There are
> >> many Madrigales in this area - most claiming not
> >> related (but I think  people
> >> just forget).  The Ortiz name, as you might be
> aware
> >> is not as  common in
> >> Mexico, at least not in these parts, however the
> >> Rocha name is  connected to
> >> families from Los Altos area.  The Duarte's were
> >> supposedly  one of the first to
> >> settle his small town - however when I went to
> the
> >> local  church to get historical
> >> data, it does not mention one single Duarte!
> >>
> >> Thanks for your feedback - I was thinking that my
> >> posting had not gone
> >> through....
> >>
> >> Esperanza - Chicago area
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Discover Yahoo!
> > Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM
> and more. Check it out!
> > http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> 



		
__________________________________ 
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Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: 

Alberto; Thank you for your various replies to my postings over the months
past. This is a site filled with good people. You are one.

I live in Whittier,  California

Again, thank you,

Jose Luis Macias

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alberto Duarte" <albertodua@...>

To: <ranchos@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: Altos de Jalisco

Don't feel left out.  My wife is from Los Altos and
never heard of my last name (Duarte) until she met me.

Alberto Duarte
Santa Maria, California

--- latina1955@... wrote:

Hi,

My husband's surnames include Rocha, Ortiz,
Madrigal, Duarte.  I have
started doing some research, but have not taken the
serious time yet.   There are
many Madrigales in this area - most claiming not
related (but I think  people
just forget).  The Ortiz name, as you might be aware
is not as  common in
Mexico, at least not in these parts, however the
Rocha name is  connected to
families from Los Altos area.  The Duarte's were
supposedly  one of the first to
settle his small town - however when I went to the
local  church to get historical
data, it does not mention one single Duarte!

Thanks for your feedback - I was thinking that my
posting had not gone
through....

Esperanza - Chicago area

__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html



Yahoo! Groups Links

I have just joined the Rancho group.  I am currently a resident of 
Washington, DC, originally from San Gabriel, California.  I am in the 
process of compiling a family history.  Central to this task is a 
genealogical database.  I have already compiled a genealogy going 
back as far as the mid 1700s in Totatiche, Jalisco for some of my 
lineages.

Thus far I have used oral histories and Church of Latter Day Saints 
resources (based on church records in Totatiche) but I have now begun 
collecting written histories of the region and plan to do some field 
research in Guadalajara, Totatiche and Colotlan later this year.

I am particularly interested in history of the names RAMOS, ARANZAZU, 
REZA, GONZALEZ, GARCIA, QUINTANILLA, PINEDO, LEMUS

The following is the full list of surnames in my GEDCOM database thus 
far:

RAMOS, PINEDO, GARCIA, GUTIERREZ, REZA, RIOS, GONZALEZ, ARANZAZU, 
LEMUS, GRANO, QUINTANILLA, MADERA, MIRAMONTES, RODRIGUEZ, TORRES, 
FLORES, ENRIQUEZ, CAMPOS, LEMUS, ROJAS, SANDOVAL, ROMERO, BOBADILLA, 
JARA 

The article on the yarn paintings was especially wonderful, thank you 
for sharing it.  I found in Jerez these Indios are invisible people.  
The men still dress in the white trousers and the women and children 
in colorful long skirts and head scarves, they were selling beautiful 
bead work in the Plaza in Jerez.  I was told not to make eye contact 
with them!  The locals truly looked through them so what they were 
selling was to the tourists since the local's didn't see them! I was 
told they live outside of town and are very poor.  Some things are 
slow to change.

Linda

Joseph,

In all the previous posting, I think you get the idea of what went on in the past regarding 
Spanish first names and surnames. I have reviewed thousands of documents from the 
18th, 19th and 20th century in Mexico.  It appears quite clear that there was a relatively 
lax attitude toward names and even surnames in Spanish communities. In my Felguerez 
line, one of the mates (depending on what document you were reading) went by Dolores 
Garcia or Maria Encarnacion Garcia or Carnacion Garcia. Same person. The hard part is 
when a family decides to change the last name altogether, e.g. Don Juan de Oñate is 
classic example. 

I could complicate the issue more by speculating on the literacy rate at any point in time/
location and how sober the padre was when he was writing but I won't go there.

Ed

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alberto Duarte <albertodua@y...> wrote:
> You think that is confusing? My great grandmother
> Maria Dolores Vasquez Tovar from Jerez had her name
> written sometimes as: Maria Dolores Tobar, Maria
> Dolores Tovar, or Maria Vasquez Tovar, or Maria
> Vasquez Tobar.
> 
> Alberto.
> Santa Maria, California
> 
> --- Emilie Garcia <auntyemfaustus@h...> wrote:
> 
> > Joseph,
> > 
> > After many years of searching the IGI and
> > microfilms, I think that everyone in Mexico was
> > named Jose or Maria, or Jose Maria, or Juan, since I
> > run into the same things you have.  It seems that
> > the priests would also often abbreviate these three
> > common names.  Juan was often used with Juan Jose or
> > Juan Francisco. More often I see Jose--Jose David,
> > Jose Gabriel, Jose Miguel, etc.  Sometimes I see
> > Juan de Dios or Jesus de la Cruz.  Would that last
> > one be called just Cruz by his family?  Yet I never
> > heard of anyone called just Dios. I have seen people
> > named Santiago or Santacruz or just Santos. Maria is
> > sometimes Maria de los Santos, or Maria de los
> > Dolores, or Maria de Jesus, etc.  I have also
> > noticed in the films that all children baptised or
> > born on or near a certain day were given the same
> > saint's name.  So in a village there might by
> > several people with the same saint's name and
> > surname, making my search for one particular person
> > harder since I have to search then for the parents'

She's probably related to my great-grandfather's first wife, Eleuteria Tovar.:) Marge:)

On Jul 9, 2005, at 12:17 AM, Alberto Duarte wrote:

You think that is confusing? My great grandmother

Maria Dolores Vasquez Tovar from Jerez had her name

written sometimes as: Maria Dolores Tobar, Maria

Dolores Tovar, or Maria Vasquez Tovar, or Maria

Vasquez Tobar.



Alberto.

Santa Maria, California

You think that is confusing? My great grandmother
Maria Dolores Vasquez Tovar from Jerez had her name
written sometimes as: Maria Dolores Tobar, Maria
Dolores Tovar, or Maria Vasquez Tovar, or Maria
Vasquez Tobar.

Alberto.
Santa Maria, California

--- Emilie Garcia <auntyemfaustus@...> wrote:

> Joseph,
> 
> After many years of searching the IGI and
> microfilms, I think that everyone in Mexico was
> named Jose or Maria, or Jose Maria, or Juan, since I
> run into the same things you have.  It seems that
> the priests would also often abbreviate these three
> common names.  Juan was often used with Juan Jose or
> Juan Francisco. More often I see Jose--Jose David,
> Jose Gabriel, Jose Miguel, etc.  Sometimes I see
> Juan de Dios or Jesus de la Cruz.  Would that last
> one be called just Cruz by his family?  Yet I never
> heard of anyone called just Dios. I have seen people
> named Santiago or Santacruz or just Santos. Maria is
> sometimes Maria de los Santos, or Maria de los
> Dolores, or Maria de Jesus, etc.  I have also
> noticed in the films that all children baptised or
> born on or near a certain day were given the same
> saint's name.  So in a village there might by
> several people with the same saint's name and
> surname, making my search for one particular person
> harder since I have to search then for the parents'
> names or other clues to be sure I am researching the
> right person.  I remember as a small child that
> people would sometimes exclaim, "Jesus, Jose y
> Maria!" when something excited them.
> 
> An example:  My great-great grandmother in Dona Ana
> County, New Mexico was named Maria de Jesus Medina. 
> I found a lady by that name living in 1880 married
> to a Jose Provencio, the name of my great-great
> grandfather. but instead of living in Chamberino NM,
> this couple lived in La Mesilla, about 20 miles
> north, and not in Chamberino where I was told they
> had always lived.  I later finally found the other
> couple, the one I am descended from, living in
> Chamberino at the same time.  The ladies were both
> Maria de Jesus Medina, the men were my great-great
> grandfather Jose Eligio Provencio and the other Jose
> Provencio was Jose Maria Provencio.  It took me
> years to find I was following leads on the wrong
> Maria de Jesus Medina.  I kept wondering why her

Joseph,

I have never come across a man with only the name Jose at baptism.  I asked my wife, Gloria, and she says that she has seen a number of men given only the name Jose at baptism.  Gloria researches mainly Aguascalientes, Jalisco and Puerto Rico.  She has done hundreds of extractions in her own research.  

My own experience, in Senecú, taught me to be flexible in naming people.  In the case of my ggggrandfather he showed up as: Carpio, Juan, Trinidad, Policarpio and combinations of all.  Finally I figured out that he was named Juan Trinidad Policarpio.  I was able to do this by extraction from the microfilms.  I find it incredible that anyone could do it using the IGI online.  I guess you have noticed that the names used in recording marriages is usually different from the baptism records.  Someday I'll read the notes on the Council of Trent to see if the RCChurch mandated that children in the western hemisphere be named José or María.  

I wouldn't be too quick to assume that the son didn't know his father's name.  It was not at all possible for a layman to be able to tell a priest what to do.  No one could stop a priest from writing whatever he felt like writing.  Good luck hunting your answer.

David Delgado in Albany,CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Puentes <makas@...>
Sent: Jul 8, 2005 3:51 PM
To: LosRanchos <ranchos@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [ranchos] Juan v. Juan Jose v. Jose Francisco


I'm pondering some first names. I've got a relative, Vicente Diaz who 
had 9 children but in every example and in his first wedding his father 
was listed as Jose or Josse Diaz.

Now isn't listing a person as Jose Diaz over and over again the 
equivilent of saying that he didn't know or remember his name?

Or that something was up with the name that he didn't want to give it?  
Are there examples of people in the late 1790's and early 1800's being 
named "Jose" by itself without another name, the real name? I know that 
in later times there are examples of just plain "Jose" being used but 
I'm unsure of the used of "Jose" only in the later time period.

okay so then at 62 years of age around 1844 Vicente Diaz remarries and 
lists his father as Juan Jose Diaz then he dies around 1849 and his 
father is listed as Juan Diaz.

Something is fishy here and I think that Vicente really didn't have a 
good handle on what his father's name was. I have a brother of his who 

I agree

Been there...done that on many occassion.  

Heard years ago priests, in late 1700's,  scripted
"Jose and/or Maria" to distinguish gender.
What say you?

Jose Munoz
Yuba City, Ca.





--- Emilie Garcia <auntyemfaustus@...> wrote:

> Joseph,
> 
> After many years of searching the IGI and
> microfilms, I think that everyone in Mexico was
> named Jose or Maria, or Jose Maria, or Juan, since I
> run into the same things you have.  It seems that
> the priests would also often abbreviate these three
> common names.  Juan was often used with Juan Jose or
> Juan Francisco. More often I see Jose--Jose David,
> Jose Gabriel, Jose Miguel, etc.  Sometimes I see
> Juan de Dios or Jesus de la Cruz.  Would that last
> one be called just Cruz by his family?  Yet I never
> heard of anyone called just Dios. I have seen people
> named Santiago or Santacruz or just Santos. Maria is
> sometimes Maria de los Santos, or Maria de los
> Dolores, or Maria de Jesus, etc.  I have also
> noticed in the films that all children baptised or
> born on or near a certain day were given the same
> saint's name.  So in a village there might by
> several people with the same saint's name and
> surname, making my search for one particular person
> harder since I have to search then for the parents'
> names or other clues to be sure I am researching the
> right person.  I remember as a small child that
> people would sometimes exclaim, "Jesus, Jose y
> Maria!" when something excited them.
> 
> An example:  My great-great grandmother in Dona Ana
> County, New Mexico was named Maria de Jesus Medina. 
> I found a lady by that name living in 1880 married
> to a Jose Provencio, the name of my great-great
> grandfather. but instead of living in Chamberino NM,
> this couple lived in La Mesilla, about 20 miles
> north, and not in Chamberino where I was told they
> had always lived.  I later finally found the other
> couple, the one I am descended from, living in
> Chamberino at the same time.  The ladies were both
> Maria de Jesus Medina, the men were my great-great
> grandfather Jose Eligio Provencio and the other Jose
> Provencio was Jose Maria Provencio.  It took me
> years to find I was following leads on the wrong
> Maria de Jesus Medina.  I kept wondering why her
> husband kept changing his name from Jose Maria to
> Jose Eligio.
> 

Don't feel left out.  My wife is from Los Altos and
never heard of my last name (Duarte) until she met me.

Alberto Duarte
Santa Maria, California

--- latina1955@... wrote:

> Hi,
>  
> My husband's surnames include Rocha, Ortiz,
> Madrigal, Duarte.  I have  
> started doing some research, but have not taken the
> serious time yet.   There are 
> many Madrigales in this area - most claiming not
> related (but I think  people 
> just forget).  The Ortiz name, as you might be aware
> is not as  common in 
> Mexico, at least not in these parts, however the
> Rocha name is  connected to 
> families from Los Altos area.  The Duarte's were
> supposedly  one of the first to 
> settle his small town - however when I went to the
> local  church to get historical 
> data, it does not mention one single Duarte!
>  
> Thanks for your feedback - I was thinking that my
> posting had not gone  
> through....
>  
> Esperanza - Chicago area
> 



		
__________________________________ 
Discover Yahoo! 
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! 
http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html

I don't think so. My husband and his mother were from Ecuador, SA and they never use that term.

Marge

On Jul 8, 2005, at 12:29 PM, Joseph Puentes wrote:

Does anyone know if "Rancho" is a term used in the same context as we use it in Mexico in other Spanish speaking countries?. . .I'm mostly interested in if Central and South Americans call their small communities Ranchos?



thanks,



joseph

Rougemont, NC

makas@...



John Gonzalez wrote:

 

 

<x-tad-smaller>Gracias Alicia:</x-tad-smaller>