By chance I found a baptismo record where my great great grandfather Juan Venancio Madera along with his wife Maria Josefa were padrinos of a "mulatto libre" named Juan Secundino - who is the son of J
It is likely the same person, unless you know there were more than one (sometimes siblings) person with the same name, the place and time match, Godparents weren't always couples, thus the difference between María de Guizar and María Leocadia.
Well thank you for your comment RJQ.
Regarding my Great Great Grandfather Juan Venancio Madera born in "Rancho De Los Maderas in 1762 and registered as "Espanol" as stated in his baptism record. Now in 1780 when he was the Padrino of a Mulatto Libre that is from the Hacienda of San Antonio? That would mean my Great Great Grandfather Juan Venancio Madera was 18 years old when he became the Padrino (Godparents). And the female along with him was probably not his couple since he was only 18 at the time. Juan Venancio Madera and his wife Maria Josefa had a son name Patricio Madera in the year 1792 making him 30 years old.
I am wondering on how about he decided to become a Godparent at 18 years old to a Mulatto Libre from the Hacienda of San Antonio? Did he have friends, relatives at the Hacienda of San Antonio?
Could mean that Juan has traveled to the Hacienda of San Antonio which is nearby and today by car it would only take 15 minutes. I don't know how long it would take by
It is clear that your ancestors owned that place "Rancho de los Maderas" due to the name, in that time, having such a place means people of money and political influence, (money along didn't do the trick), in this type of families isn't rare to find a boy in its teens been already of some status within the family, at 18 he could be already in charge of some business in the ranch and beyond and thus he was wanted as Godfather even by non family members, like workers or residents of that ranch and surrounding areas. He (Juan) could own or have some business in San Antonio too, many people expanded their doings beyond their owned lands, by renting or partnership. In those days people traveled even more (due to ownership of land), don't find it rare when you see people going 20-50 miles often.
The mulato family were likely his (or his dad) employed people regardless of where they lived. Further investigation may give you more clues, but that is usually the case.
It looks like a nice
I don't know abt your ancestor but it was the norm for Espanoles to be the godparents to the workers on their ranchos or estancia's. It appears young Espanol children were godparents along with a parent or relative. I think it was another way of saying their padrons would take care of them.. just my opinion
Linda in Olympia, Wa
On Tuesday, May 13, 2014 7:36 PM, "zacatecano020@hotmail.com" wrote:
Well thank you for your comment RJQ.
Regarding my Great Great Grandfather Juan Venancio Madera born in "Rancho De Los Maderas in 1762 and registered as "Espanol" as stated in his baptism record. Now in 1780 when he was the Padrino of a Mulatto Libre that is from the Hacienda of San Antonio? That would mean my Great Great Grandfather Juan Venancio Madera was 18 years old when he became the Padrino (Godparents). And the female along with him was probably not his couple since he was only 18 at the time. Juan Venancio Madera and his wife Maria Josefa had a son name Patricio Madera in the
Thank you Longsjourney for your comments. And it gets more interesting that I am just discovering? Ok. Now Juan Benancio Madera my paternal great great great grandfather from Rancho de Maderas was padrino of mulatto libre and so was Francisco Madera.
Now! I am from two Maderas because my Great Grandfather Calixto Madera (Born in Huejuquilla) had kids with my Great Grandmother Maria Clemencia Madera (born in Rancho De Los Maderas)
My Paternal Great Great Grandfather Juan Benanancio Madera is the Grandfather of Calixto Madera.
On Maria Clemencia Madera side, her father is Benito Madera of Rancho De Los Maderas and Benito's father is Marcelo Madera (Born 1774) of Rancho De Los Maderas which is him listed first in this Census of 1828. But I made a copy of the first page:
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/8408/ranchodelosmaderahuejuq.jpg
Now Marcelos Parents are Lazaro Madera and Juana Micaela Perales of Rancho de Los Maderas.
Now here is where it gets more interesting
To zacatecano
"So what does this mean "hijo Leg." Did Lazaro Madera have kids with
someone else besides his wife Juana Micaela Perales or what?"
NO, That means parents were married.its just a statement that Church has to
keep
if you give a look at others baptism records , its almost always written :
1.-hijo legitimo
2.- hijo natural, means parents were not married,
3.- "hijo natural de" ( mother) y "padre desconocido".
4.- expositos o hijo de la iglesia, means no parents at all.
Good luck
Julieta
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Research [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] De la part
de zacatecano020@hotmail.com
Envoyé : viernes, 16 de mayo de 2014 08:56 a.m.
À : research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Objet : Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Great Great Grandfather
Thank you Longsjourney for your comments. And it gets more interesting that
I am just discovering? Ok. Now Juan Benancio Madera my paternal great
great great grandfather from Rancho de Maderas was padrino
I forgot to mention this from the beginning, that do not look to much into the "given race" by the church, this was just a really bad implementation of the "Limpia de Sangre" from the Inquisition times, but in México was more of a routine than a real genetic or genealogical study. It is also misunderstood by many the way it works, most people (thanks to the lack of documentation) would think that the parents combination would automatically credit a child with a race, for example Spanish plus Native equals Mestizo, but that was not the case, the actual look of the child plus the final decision of the priest would determine the given race, therefore you can find all types of combinations, at times even when the parents were "Spanish" if the kid was a little dark-skin would be considered Mestizo, Mulato, Morisco, Lobo, etc. And vice-versa.
The word Mulato was widely used and often in place for Mestizo, or others and rarely represent the actual race of the people, many times the same
can anyone read all the names and also tell me if Nikolas or maria were previousley married? this is thier marriage certificate . i cant read information on marias parents either
thank you
Nicolas Picaso, single, born and live in Santa María. 22 years old. Son of Perfecto Picaso (alive) and Quirina Gonzalez (defunct)
María de Jesus Morones, born in "this" city and live in Santa María, single, 26 years old, daughter of Teodoro Morones (defunct) and Benita Morones (alive)
Godparents: Refugio Picaso and Felicitas Morones
Witnesses: Perfecto Picaso and Felix de León (adults and residents of Santa María)
The information is in the book number 46, folio 148.
The Groom christening record is in the book number 49, page 182, third entry.
The Bride || book number 46, page 85, second entry.
I don't think they were previously married, the city for the bride is the one where the wedding took place, the last paragraph is the actual reference for their vital records.
Susan Carmona Thank you so much for the clarification and translation .
Susan Carmona Thank you so much for the clarification and translation .
No problem Susan, that was an easy reading thanks to the neat writing, I'm glad I could help.
My mother is an immigrant from Mexico who became a U.S. citizen; my father’s family all came from the New Mexico area and became citizens when the U.S. bought (or stole) the territories. So basically, all my ancestors were of Mexican descent.
Hello Mary and welcome to the group! My paternal grandfather is from the same area that you are researching (ranchos of Santa Maria, La Mololoa, Troje de Urquiola...) and I believe we have a few common ancestors.
Based on what I've found our most recent common ancestor line is as follows:
1. Marcos Perez and Maria Antonia Magdaleno aka Ursua, aka Dondiego married 20 April 1755 in Lagos de Moreno
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18560-24562-16?cc=1874591&wc…
2. Jose Alvino Perez and Maria Vicenta de Torres (parents Jose Guadalupe de Torres and Maria Narcisa de Aguilar) married 22 March 1801 in Encarnacion de Diaz
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18564-58110-13?cc=1874591&wc…
3. Maria Dorotea Rafaela Perez (born 26 January 1802 in Santa Maria) and Gerardo Cervantes (parents Jose Cervantes and Antonia Ramirez) married 10 November 1819 in Encarnacion de Diaz.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18524-5601-35?cc=1874591&wc=…
Susan Carmona
Hello ,
im new to the group and noticed we have a few ancestors in common.
my 2nd great grandparents are Perfecto Picazo and Quirina Gonzales . this is from my paternal side of the family .
My 1st great granparents are Nicolas Gonzales Picazo and Maria de jesus Morones.
my grand parents are Antonia Picazo and Cirilo Barraza Gomez
Susan Carmona
Hello ,
im new to the group and noticed we have a few ancestors in common.
my 2nd great grandparents are Perfecto Picazo and Quirina Gonzales . this is from my paternal side of the family .
My 1st great granparents are Nicolas Gonzales Picazo and Maria de jesus Morones.
my grand parents are Antonia Picazo and Cirilo Barraza Gomez
Mary:
Here are some siblings for your great-grandfather Perfecto Picazo:
Higinio Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 25 SEP 1867 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Perfecto Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 31 MAY 1876 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Perfecto Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 18 NOV 1870 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Victoriana Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 28 MAY 1873 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Martina Picazo - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 12 JAN 1867 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
As far as Quirino CERBANTES, there is another Quirino who is a possible candidate for your ancestor, given that he was married to Agatona SOTO in 1855. I would suggest you get Film No. 1155498 through a Family History Center and read the record which should list Quirino's and Agatona's parents, even
So your experience is that the Family Centers have a lot more info? I may go by tomorrow.
Gracias!
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: arturoramos
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:05:59
To:research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Picazos in Encarnacion de Diaz
Mary:
Here are some siblings for your great-grandfather Perfecto Picazo:
Higinio Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 25 SEP 1867 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Perfecto Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 31 MAY 1876 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Perfecto Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 18 NOV 1870 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Victoriana Picaso - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 28 MAY 1873 Encarnacion De Diaz, Jalisco, Mexico
Martina Picazo - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 12 JAN 1867 Encarnacion De Diaz
Sandra:
The family history centers themselves do not necessarily have more information, but they do allow you to order films from the Family History Library in Utah (and the even more massive collection at the LDS Genealogy Vault). The films are the actual microfilmed versions of the parish records from which the IGI and VRI were extracted by volunteers.
Inevitably, the extractions have less information than the actual records and often times the extractions are outright wrong, in that the volunteers misread the record or transposed names, etc.
So the moral of the story is... you should order films and look at the actual records. Beyond the information you will gather and verify, there is a genuine excitement that comes from seeing such old records with your ancestors names written in the script and language of the time.
They are related and it seems that either Perfecto married twice or had a brother with the same first name? It's confusing when you have to guess what happened. But that is part of the fun--the detective work!
Mary Reams
Tempe, Arizona
my GGG Grandfather was a twin and his twin had the same first name. Both
were Tadeo Diaz' it happened maybe not frequently but happened enough times.
joseph
====================
Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
PicazoCervantes wrote:
> They are related and it seems that either Perfecto married twice or had a brother with the same first name? It's confusing when you have to guess what happened. But that is part of the fun--the detective work!
>
> Mary Reams
> Tempe, Arizona
I also had records from Jerez Zacatecas showing the same name, Juan Jose De la Cueva, with two different wives. I had begun to think he had a second family then I found a record where the second Juan Jose and his wife were godparents to the first Juan Jose and his wifes child, ruined what my imagination had decided had happened. I never found birth or baptism records for them for that time period so I don't know if they were twins or not. I have found at least 3 sets of twins with the same first name and I assumed that one was not expected to live. Guess I'd better stop assuming!
Linda in Everett
Joseph Puentes wrote:
my GGG Grandfather was a twin and his twin had the same first name. Both
were Tadeo Diaz' it happened maybe not frequently but happened enough times.
joseph
====================
Joseph Puentes
http://H2Opodcast.com (Environment Podcast)
http://H2Opodcast.blogspot.com/ (Blog for above)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
One of my ancestors, Josef Zaldivar, was married twice and had at least
two sons by his first wife who were named Jose or Josef and then
different middle names and my ancestor, his first son by his second
marriage, was named Juan Josef Zezario Zaldivar. I wonder who the
Zezario is whom he is named after--definitely NOT his padrino, who is
his uncle Pablo and his wife Ma. de la Encarnacion. Marge:)
On Dec 12, 2007, at 11:25 PM, Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:
> I also had records from Jerez Zacatecas showing the same name, Juan
> Jose De la Cueva, with two different wives. I had begun to think he
> had a second family then I found a record where the second Juan Jose
> and his wife were godparents to the first Juan Jose and his wifes
> child, ruined what my imagination had decided had happened. I never
> found birth or baptism records for them for that time period so I
> don't know if they were twins or not. I have found at least 3 sets of
> twins with the same first name
Mary:
Welcome to the group. I hope we can be of help here though it seems that you are pretty far along in your search and certainly have the right intuition in that in Mexico the Catholic church sacramental records are the key.
As far as your grandmother's name of Quirina Ferrel or Gonzalez, I would say that Ferrel was a second given name. I have seen the name Ferrer often appears as a second given name and the name Quirina is so unique that it must be the same Quirina. Probably names Quirina Ferrel Gonzalez Macias in current day standard Mexican naming convention, i.e First Given Name, Second Given Name, Paternal Surname, Maternal Surname.
It is important to note that there was a high level of illiteracy until the mid 1900s in Mexico and as such most people did not know how to spell their own last names. Furthermore, the Spanish language, particularly its spelling was not as standardized as it is today and thus even priests and certainly deacons, etc writing down records would
We have many of the same first names in our lines, but so far nothing matches up. Although I have not pursued the Cervantes line or the Gonzalez lines extensively, I can be a some help. Try searching on Serbantes and Servantes as these are other variations that will yield very different results. My lines of Cervantes are in the areas of Tepatitlan and Jalostotitlan. If you find any Ledesma or Deledesma in your lines, let me know.
Welcome to the group. Everyone here has been very helpful to me with their gracious suggestions and new ideas. This helps so much, especially when I am stuck on something! Just a little while back I was trying to translate a marriage document and was having trouble with the meanings of a few words, when lo and behold there is a posting about Latin words used alongside the Spanish in some baptisms and matrimonies. I am sure you will enjoy all the information that is on this site and all the history and cultural lessons we have on our posts.
Welcome
Maureen:
Thank you so much for your comment. I will look for different spellings of Cervantes. I've noted that spellings do change, depending on who does the recording. My own father changed his surname Bustos to Bustoz so it made it difficult to find his ancestors with that spelling. The problem solving and detective work is fun!
Mary Reams
Tempe, Arizona
I need to know where I can order Birth and Death Records for Jalisco, Mexico.
Laurie,
Myheritage does not index records. That site is useless for Mexican genealogy.
The best way to find more information on the parents of Jose Mena & Juana Valderrama is by continuing to look for the marriage records of their parents and baptisms and civil birth records of the siblings of José Mena and Juana Valderrama. The civil records have indexes a lot of times. Since Valderrama was sometimes spelled incorrectly as Balderrama you should look through the indexes for all of the Balderrama and Valderrama births and marriages.
I uploaded a spreadsheet with the page numbers of the indexes that I have found in the civil records of Lagos to https://www.dropbox.com/s/rysd5egkypoduzt/Lagos%20Civil.xlsx
The civil records of La Unión can be found at https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysea…
Armando
Laurie Machen
Thanks again Armando
Now All I have to do is find someone who can read Spanish.
I downloaded the months in Spanish.
Are the La Union record in order.
Laurie
There is some guidance from the Family Search wiki at http://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Mexico_Civil_Registration
George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA
Laurie Machen
Thank you for the info on family Search Wiki
I need to know where I can order Birth and Death Records for Jalisco, Mexico.
Hi Everyone,
I found the civil record of the marriage of José Mena and Juana Valderrama using a file I have that has the page numbers of indexes of the civil records of Lagos.
They were married 1 Feb 1923.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-21238-36137-71?cc=1918187…
It states that José Mena was born in Unión de San Antonio, Jalisco on 19 Mar 1904. His parents were Jesús Mena and Juana López. Unión de San Antonio is a smaller town that is very close to Lagos and belonged to the jurisdiction of Lagos before becoming it's own town.
Juana Valderrama was born 24 June 1907. Her parents were Nabor Valderrama, deceased, and Jacinta Prado.
Armando
Laurie Machen
OMG.. Thank you so much. This has to be them. I was told a very long time ago something about San Antonio. I have been look for this record you found. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-21238-36137-71?cc=1918187…
But can't find it. I will go thru all of them tonight after of mother day celebration. Is there a way to put just the family search number in and get the page.
Thank you again Laurie
This is the citation of the record.
"México, Jalisco, Registro Civil, 1857-2000," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-21238-36137-71?cc=1918187 : accessed 12 May 2014), Lagos de Moreno > Matrimonios 1921-1924 > image 460 of 858; citing Archivo del Registro Civil del Estado de Jalisco.
Try using the shortened link - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-21238-36137-71?cc=1918187
Armando
Laurie Machen
I got it thank you my Aunt Cookie is is so Happy.
also Thanks for info on the town
By the way, Unión de San Antonio is called La Unión by the locals. Its never called San Antonio.
Armando
Hello Laurie,
You need to look for the baptisms or civil records of Guadalupe 1925 & Leopoldo 1926 since those records will have the names of the grandparents. Then you will be able to determine if you have the right José Mena.
The only other way to determine who the parents of your grandfather were is by finding the marriage record of José Mena & Juanita Valderrama.
Armando
Mercado-Acevedo-Nava Family - Part 1 of 2 by Donna Gonzalez
Descendants of Mercado Family in Tepetongo, Zacatecas MX
Generation No. 1
Estimados Miembros, especialmente Enrique Agraz,
Sé que varios de ustedes van a estar tan emocionados como yo por lo que encontré hoy referente a los origines de la familia de la Cueva.
To Enrique, Carlos, Sergio, and other nuestro rancho members
I did not realize that you had already posted this information on the De la Cuevas. Please look at my post on the Bernardina mendoza on 5/8/14 that explains the different Gil Martinez de la Cueva, different diego Fernandez de la Cueva, and the different wives surnamed alfonso de Mercado.
Thanks again for your collaboration,
R.A.Ricci
To Enrique, Carlos, Sergio, and other nuestro rancho members
I did not realize that you had already posted this information on the De la Cuevas. Please look at my post on the Bernardina mendoza on 5/8/14 that explains the different Gil Martinez de la Cueva, different diego Fernandez de la Cueva, and the different wives surnamed alfonso de Mercado.
Thanks again for your collaboration,
R.A.Ricci
Hola Sergio,
Te agradezco tus comentarios, haré todo lo posible por conseguir una copia desde México o espero llegar a encontrar ese libro de Memorias aquí. Sigo confiando en que mi tío revisó y verificó la obra de Don José Ignacio Dávila Garibi, sé de buena fuente que a él le gustaba corroborar con documentos originales pero darle crédito a quiénes descubrieron la información inicialmente. Además de haber sido contemporáneo de Don José Ignacio Dávila, quién debió facilitarle la identidad de las fuentes en que él se basó para el otro libro que él escribió. Aún así no está de más darle una checada con propios ojos a los documentos que cita.
Si no fuera mucha molestia te agradecería me compartieras: 1) La identidad de los padres de Doña María de Solís y Ochoa y 2) Datos sobre los hijos de Don Juan de la Cueva y Mora y Doña Rosalía Benavides Guido, en particular de Doña Juana Mauricia, Doña Margarita y Don Vicente que son de quiénes desciendo.
Por último, me gustaría saber si en el
Hola Sergio,
Te agradezco tus comentarios, haré todo lo posible por conseguir una copia desde México o espero llegar a encontrar ese libro de Memorias aquí. Sigo confiando en que mi tío revisó y verificó la obra de Don José Ignacio Dávila Garibi, sé de buena fuente que a él le gustaba corroborar con documentos originales pero darle crédito a quiénes descubrieron la información inicialmente. Además de haber sido contemporáneo de Don José Ignacio Dávila, quién debió facilitarle la identidad de las fuentes en que él se basó para el otro libro que él escribió. Aún así no está de más darle una checada con propios ojos a los documentos que cita.
Si no fuera mucha molestia te agradecería me compartieras: 1) La identidad de los padres de Doña María de Solís y Ochoa y 2) Datos sobre los hijos de Don Juan de la Cueva y Mora y Doña Rosalía Benavides Guido, en particular de Doña Juana Mauricia, Doña Margarita y Don Vicente que son de quiénes desciendo.
Por último, me gustaría saber si en el
Estimado colega,
Me encuentro muy contento de haber checado este sitio después de varias semanas y encontrarme con esta excelente noticia. Ya había dicho yo que seguramente mi tío había llegado a publicar muchos datos valiosos en la obra que mencionas. No dudo ni un poco que mi tío al publicar estos datos estuvo basado en fuentes primarias y confiables, todos los que llegaron a conocerle saben que era un hombre que siempre buscaba la verdad y nada más que la verdad como lo comprueban algunas de sus obras más famosas entre la que puedo citar "Los Corregidores Don Miguel Domínguez y Doña Josefa Ortiz y El Inicio de la Independencia" donde sacó a luz muchos documentos que probaron el verdadero linaje de los héroes de la independencia y el que dio más polémica fue el de Doña Josefa Ortiz, quién se creyó era criolla, resultaba que su abuela era mulata y además de un detalle muy curioso con respecto a la apariencia física que tenemos de la corregidora. En fin, creo que no hay duda en estos
Hola Enrique,
No estoy seguro si puedas pedir la obra prestada desde México, pues ésta copia está en Estados Unidos. Yo tengo que regresarla el viernes(aunque voya tratar de renovarla). Aunque buscando en worldcat.org encontré dos copias en México, una en del DF, la otra en Querétaro.
http://www.worldcat.org/search?qt=worldcat_org_all&q=Memorias+de+la+Aca…
En Estados Unidos se puede pedir desde una biblioteca en la que sea uno miembro a la otra por medio de un sistema llamado Interlibrary Loan. Pero estoy casi seguro que el sistema Interlibrary Loan es para toda América del Norte (Candadá, EUA, México).
Si checas en la biblioteca de tu universidad es posible que puedas pedirla prestada ya sea de las dos localidad en México o bien de Estados Unidos.
Si puedo renovar el préstamo haré mi mejor esfuerzo por hacer copias y mandartelas. Ok?
Saludos colega!
Sergio Salés
Sergio,
Gracias por aportar estos datos importantísimos en nuestra genealogía. También desciendo de la misma familia Fernández de la Cueva en la provincia de Avalos, sólo que la mía termina ca. 1730 con Nicolás Fernández de la Cueva vecino del pueblo de Teocuitatlán de Corona. Su nieta Desideria y su esposo Guadalupe Méndez de Torres son mis quarto bisabuelos.
Ahora, tengo confianza en el trabajo de D. Gabriel Agraz García de Alba es muy respetado, más también solo porque una persona lo dice, no es facto. Lo que me preocupa son los fuentes. Dónde sacó los datos el Lic. Agraz? Siempre tenemos que comprobar por nosotros mismos los documentos. Sabes si D. Gabriel mencionó sus fuentes o fondo documentales donde los sacó en los libros?
Siempre encuentro errores (no todas las veces) que los genealogistas reconocidos hicieron. No les culpo, por falta de tecnología no eran tan avanzados como somos hoy en nuestra época. Esto dice que debemos avanzar mucho más en nuestros estudios
Sólo para el aire libre, cuál será la conexión entre los Fernández de la Cueva de Aguascalientes y Guanajuato con los de la provincia de Avalos? Obviamente, son la misma familia en los Reinos de Castilla, más tendremos que establecer el vínculo entre ambas familias.
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino
Hola Daniel,
Comparto tu preocupación sobre verificar información sacada de fuentes secundarias con fuentes primarias. Creo que la utilidad de la obra de Agraz que he citado es que nos da una dirección a seguir, mientras que antes estábamos tanteando a ciegas. Obviamente una obra secundaria publicada por una agrupación prestigiosa tiene más peso que una obra privada. La del Lic. Agraz es de la primera categoría, pues fue debidamente publicada por la Academia Mexicana de Genealogía y Heráldica.
Pero para contestar tu pregunta, don Gabriel dividió en tres partes su estudio. Para las primeras dos partes que van desde los fundadores de la famlia de la Cueva hasta la venida a Nueva España, Agraz usó dos obras. La primera se titula "D. Diego de Colio," escrita por Ignacio Dávila Garibi, quien fuera Presidnete de la Academia Mexicana de Genealogía y Herádlica. Agraz también usó la "Escala genealógica ascendente del Doctor Enrique Eduardo López Maldonado" de J. Ignacio Dávila Garibi
Edgar Olguin Diaz
buenos dias
un cordial saludo
queria haber si me podrian ayudar con una de mis lineas
que se apellidan beltran de la cueva
que son la siguiente:
maria antonia veltran de la cueba casada con juan jph muñoz de la barba
matrimonio 25 abril 1740 aguascalientes
juan beltran de la cueba casado con theresa macias valadez
matrimonio 03 septiembre 1709 aguascalientes
pedro de la cueba casado con elena beltran
ellos nacieron aproximadamente entre 1650 a 1660
la pregunta : este ultimo pedro de la cueba sera del mismo linaje de los beltran de la cueba que presentas en tu publicacion?
tendras alguna pista de esta pareja?
te lo agradeceria mucho
que tengas excelente dia
gracias por tu atencion
bye
Carlos Peredo
Les comparto un link de un archivo en que se detallan muchas generaciones descendientes de Don Pedro Cueva y Doña Carmona, ahí se relata una boda de María Fernández de la Cueva Mexía en Úbeda con el francés Hugo Beltrán alférez mayor de la cruzada en la batalla del Salado; estoy suponiendo que de allí surge el nombre esporádico de Beltrán entre los de la Cueva.
Aquí va el link
http://www.vbeda.com/gines/tomo2/b0094.pdf
Carlos Peredo
Respecto a Francisco de la Cueva Mendoza que llegó de España en compañía de su hermano Juan, encontré que compró unas tierras en Tlazazalca, Mich en 1579 y que el 19-feb-1583 recibió una merced de tierras en Purépero, Mich (jurisdicción de Tlazazalca) de manos del Virrey Lorenzo Suárez y Mendoza Conde de la Coruña. En Tlazazalca he visto mucho el apellido de la Cueva, así que son posibles descendientes de este Francisco.
Estimados Miembros,
La familia de la Cueva, descendientes de D. Beltrán Fernández de la Cueva, fallecido en Tecolotlán en 1684, efectivamente estaban emparentados con los Duques de Albuquerque! Mas NO son descendientes directos. Así lo dice D. Gabriel Agraz en la p. 56 de "Origen y Desenvolvimiento de la Familia de la Cueva en Tecolotlán” publicada en “Memorias de la Academia Mexicana de Genealogía y Heráldica,” Vol VII.
Sin embargo fue una familia de origen muy noble. Estoy transcribiendo el resto de la ascendencia de D. Beltrán para poder compartirla aquí. Como se verá fue un linaje ilustre que contó entre si a conquistadores de ciudades como Úbeda y Sevilla, caballeros de la orden de Santiago, etc.
Saludos!
Sergio Salés
Dear Members,
The de la Cueva family, descendants of Beltrán Fernández de la Cueva, who died in Tecolotlán in 1684, were related to the Dukes of Albuquerque, but were not direct descendants of the dukes. I found this in Gabriel Agraz' "Origen y Desenvolvimiento
Carlos Peredo
Estimado Sergio
Muchas gracias por tan generosamente compartir esta información, puedo entender la emoción que sientes al tener en tus manos esos textos de la Academia Mexicana de Genealogía, no tengo duda de que son literalmente un tesoro de datos interesantes.
Quedo y quedamos muy agradecidos por participarnos cualquier información pertinente que ahí encuentres.
Gracias por perseverar en la busqueda y rastreo de tan valiosas investigaciones
Saludos cordiales a todos
Estimados Miembros,
Ésta nota tendrá dos partes. La primera será la transcripción que prometí hacer de la primera parte de la obra de D. Gabriel Agraz (quien a su vez usó del trabajo del Lic. Dávila Garibi). La segunda parte será la concordancia de las generaciones según la obra digitalizada de “Nobleza del Andaluzia,” escrita en 1588 por Gonzalo Argote de Molina. De hecho, el link que nos proporcionó Carlos Peredo, hace referencia a “Nobleza del Andaluzia.” Hay dos inconsistencias entre la obra de Don Gabriel Agraz y la de Argote de Molina, la una entre la generación número 8-9 y la otra entre la 9-10. La única forma de resolver las inconsistencias será encontrar más documentos secundarios y originales.
Como prometí, aquí transcribo la primera parte de la ascendencia de D. Beltrán de la Cueva, fallecido en Tecolotlán, Nueva Galicia (hoy Jalisco) en 1684, dejando viuda a Dña. Tomasina de Velasco y Zúñiga.
Cito textualmente, “Origen y Desenvolvimiento de la Familia de la Cueva
Carlos Peredo
Encontré un autor que parece aclararnos un poco la genealogía de la Cueva a partir de Beltrán du Guesclín; se trata de Don Luis de Salazar que escribió un libro cuyo objetivo es corregir errores genealógicos por él detectado en otros antiguos textos, se trata de "Advertencias Históricas sobre las obras...." , en él nos relata haber tenido en sus manos una genealogía antigua propia de un miembro de dicha familia compuesta en un buen número de pérgaminos, la cual le permitió corregir un error referente a la boda de Gil Martínez de la Cueva con Blanca Fernández de la Cueva, a quienes el texto errado señalaba como tío y sobrina.
Don Luis de Salazar detalla que Hugo Beltrán du Guesclín y María Fernández de la Cueva tuvieron al menos dos hijos : Juan Martínez de la Cueva que fue Alcayde de Sabiote y Señor de Villarejo y Diego Fernández de la Cueva el que casó con Leonor Sánchez de la Trapera.
Relata que Juan Martínez de la Cueva casó con María Alonso del Mercado y tuvieron a
Gracias, Carlos!
Agradezco tu ayuda, pues se esclarecieron las generaciones inmediatas a Hugo Bertrand.
Tambien habia visto la historia del Regido Ruy Perez de la Cueva, desterrado en 1421 o 1422. Creo que es muy posible que tengas la razon que es el mismo que menciona Don Gabriel Agraz. La frase "los ruegos de Gil Martínez de la Cueva" serian mas apropiados tratandose de un hijo que de un pariente lejano.
Lo ideal obviamente seria encontrar un documento que acredite a un Ruy Perez de la Cueva como hijo de Gil Martinez de la Cueva.
Por lo pronto les comparto otro link sobre Pedro de la Cueva, fundador de la Casa de la Cueva:
http://books.google.com/books?id=ze6g4NSxZX8C&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=Ped…
p. 160
Sergio Salés
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 08 May 2014 00:19:03 -0000
From: "gc-gateway@rootsweb.com"
Subject: [MEX-JALISCO] Filipino and filipinas in Jalisco Mexico
To:
Estimados Miembros,
Muchas Gracias por su valiosa ayuda en este sitio , podría ser tan amable de decirme si tiene algún Dato sobre Geronima de la Cueva hija de Leonardo Fregoso Tía de Tomasina de Velasco y Zúñiga el por que? no se llamo Geronima Fregoso Farfan como le correspondía por sus Padres.
Es un placer, Ignacio.
No tengo más información sobre Geronima de la Cueva. Lo que tengo lo obtuve de la discusión que hubo en un tema de foro de Nuestros Ranchos.
Conforme entiendo en el siglo XVI los apellidos aún no se tomaban tan definidamente como hoy (Nombre, Apellido Paterno, Apellido Materno). Podía haber el llamado patronímo (por ejemplo: si "Fernando" era hijo de "Pedro", su nombre era "Fernando Pérez". Si el hijo de dicho "Fernando" se llamaba "Juan", entonces sería Juan Fernández). Eventualmente las familias fueron adoptando un patronímico y pasándolo de generación a generación. Con el ejemplo anterior, el hijo de "Juan Fernández" pudo optar por mantener el Fernández y todos sus descendietes se llamaron Fernández, es entonces cuando se le puede decir apellido. Pero tambien había varios casos donde los descendientes escogían qué patronímico usar basado en un ancestro que admiraban. Todo esto hace que nuestras búsquedas sean más difíciles en el siglo XVI y
En especial al Señor Sergio Salés por ser tan grato . le Agrasezco sobremanera el esfuerzo que hace para ayudar.
Hi there all, I am glad to be part of the group, I've been (a bit at a time and slowly) researching my last name for little more than ten years now, although strictly talking about genealogy I just st
David Serna
http://www.telepaisa.com/pueblos.php?action=poblacion_ver&poblacion_id=…
This is a link to a .Pueblo now called Carrillos(San Nicolas) It shows a map and places it on Hwy. 205 just NW of Apulco, Zac. Between Nochistlan and Teocaltiche.
When looking for pueblos and ranchos, .. Use Google Type
the name + the nearby town + (either of these sites) telepaisa or pueblos America.
Telepaisa offers a map either satellite or road.
Pueblos America only satellite.
There is a third.. I have forgotten the name.. but I posted the subject on NR just two weeks ago. David
Saul Navarro
I also connect to the Quiralte, Lozano, Sandoval, Rodriguez y Frias, Venavides family lines in Nochistlan Zacatecas. Do you want to compare notes? you can write me at hartparkangler@yahoo.com Saul
Hi there Saul, nice to meet you, I don't really have that much of a genealogy done, my only information is the first generation of Quiralte in Nochistlán, which is far from complete, from there I just followed my line that went to Jalisco. but you can always check my website, there I will be putting all the information I have in Family Tree, (since they are not making it truly public) with explanations on each link. Any comment/correction are always appreciated.
RJ Quiralte
Thank you David, indeed, that place has the name on it, I come across with Los Carrillos a while ago, I just haven't found if they are the same, I guess I would have to search for the Carrillo family to find out if they owned that place and thus the change of name. thanks for the tip.
RJ Quiralte
Hi all,
My sister in law was a B2. Her mother was an Acosta. Her brother, my husband is T1, and I am C.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mayangrl@sonic.net
> Date: Sat, 3 May 2014 20:15:43 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] MtDNA Haplogroup B4'5
>
> Hi all,
>
> I was wondering if anyone else came up with this MtDNA haplogroup. I've read a little, but apparently, this is fairly common from SW Native American groups and northern Mexico down through Jalisco where it's even more common.
>
> Laura Gonzalez
Hi Emilie,
I saw your response and noticed that you know someone with the Acosta name. Does your sister in law get into genealogy as well? I'd like to know more info on this line. I also checked if you were following this line (Acosta) but didn't see it in your list of surnames but I did see you're interested in the name "de Aro"? My 4th great grandmother is Corona de Aro(b.1769) who was married to Juan Jose Acosta (b.1753) and they had at least one son named Jose Maria Acosta (1790-1859) who was married to Martina Castaneda (1796-1841). I'm wondering if there's a connection?
Thanks
Jose Acosta
my MTDNA was A and in Mexico that would be Nahua but the tribes/bands of the states and Canada are sure a lesson in migration.
Linda Castanon-Long in Olympia, Wa.
On Tuesday, May 6, 2014 4:17 AM, Emilie Garcia wrote:
My sister in law was a B2. Her mother was an Acosta. Her brother, my husband is T1, and I am C.
Emilie
Port Orchard, WA
> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mayangrl@sonic.net
> Date: Sat, 3 May 2014 20:15:43 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] MtDNA Haplogroup B4'5
>
> Hi all,
>
> I was wondering if anyone else came up with this MtDNA haplogroup. I've read a little, but apparently, this is fairly common from SW Native American groups and northern Mexico down through Jalisco where it's even more common.
>
> Laura Gonzalez
Hi Laura,my mTDNA haplogroup is also B4'5. My grandmother was born just outside of Tucson in an area called "Rillito" before Arizona was even a part of the United States.
Her ancestors were likely the Tohono O'odham (Pima),Puebloan or Hopi peoples. Her paternal side were some of the first European settlers in the area and they were Spanish\Basques from Navarra.
B4'5 is interesting as it does not appear to have originated in Siberia as some of the other native American markers did, but appears to have originated closer to China, Mongolia or Tibet.
It's also interesting that it is found among Southeastern Asians, Polynesians in addition to Tibetans, Altai, Chinese and Japanese peoples.
Best,
Robert Gonzalez~
Hello Laura,
I've also tested B4'5/B2. Have you taken the familyfinder?
Alice Blake
________________________________
From: "mayangrl@sonic.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2014 10:15 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] MtDNA Haplogroup B4'5
Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone else came up with this MtDNA haplogroup. I've read a little, but apparently, this is fairly common from SW Native American groups and northern Mexico down through Jalisco where it's even more common.
Laura Gonzalez
Yes, I took the Family Finder, tho I'm not really clear on how to use it.
Laura Gonzalez
I was wondering if you are Laura A. Gonzalez, if so, we match on Chromosomes 6 @11.28cms, 9 at11.74cms, and 11 @5.11cms. Like you, I'm not sure how to use it, so what I'm doing is totally the attempt of an amateur to make sense of this. First, I'm charting people with matches of 5.5cms or more, and second, further breaking it down to those whose 5.5 or more results appear on 3 or more chromosomes. I figure that the higher and more frequent the matches, the better the match. Even so, with autosomal DNA being the crap shoot that it is, it will be difficult to find real, documentable matches. Therefore, it's my untrained understanding, that if you are Laura A. Gonzalez, we are indeed distantly related; however, who is our common ancestor, that is the question. The more people that test, the better our chances.
Good luck and have fun with it.
Alice
________________________________
From: "mayangrl@sonic.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 9
Hi,
Maria Antonia Macias, espanola originaria de la Cruz de el Obato, hija legitima de D. Patricio Macia y Maria Nicolasa Dias.
I looked up Asientos here: http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/base3.htm and I see a rancho called Cruz de Lobato, which is what I believe matches the record.
I hope this helps.
Rosalinda
Thank you Rosalinda.
Marylouise Fraijo Ambriz
Hi Rosalinda,
What state are you researching, and what is the name of the municipio?
Anna
On Monday, May 5, 2014 4:04 PM, "rruizgenealogy@ix.netcom.com" wrote:
Hi,
Maria Antonia Macias, espanola originaria de la Cruz de el Obato, hija legitima de D. Patricio Macia y Maria Nicolasa Dias.
I looked up Asientos here: http://biblio2.colmex.mx/bibdig/dicc_cubas/base3.htm and I see a rancho called Cruz de Lobato, which is what I believe matches the record.
I hope this helps.
Rosalinda
Hi Ana,
I responded to a post asking for help in reading a document, so I don't have a question. I offered my answer.
Thank you, though!
Rosalinda
Hello,
I'm new to this process and to this site. I'm trying to track down my ancestor's, Francisco Villanueva Andrade's, family line. He was born in San Deigo, Quiltupan, Jalisco in 1926.
Looks like this is the parish's YouTube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/user/parroquiasantaclara
Here's a satellite map and some pertinent info about the town of Santa Clara de Valladares in the municipio (county) of Tacumbo in Michoacan:
http://mexico.pueblosamerica.com/i/santa-clara-de-valladares/
So, Santa Clara de Valladares, Michoacan is about an hour or so SE of Quitupan, Jalisco. They're near the border between those states, so over time the parish and its records may have changed between states, keep that in mind when you're looking.
What you posted looks like the parish address, including postal code (cp), so you should be able to write them, too. "Known Addresses" are valid in Mexico.
How's your Spanish? Because the Wikipedia on Tocumbo is great in Spanish, woefully inadequate in English. http://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocumbo_(municipio)
I noticed someone named Andrade was one of the town elders in 1800. Maybe a relative of yours?
Added: Address and phone
David Serna Quitupan, Jalisco church records
https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysea…
========================================================
baptism record of Francisco Villanueva Andrade, 16 Octubre 1926 born in the Puesto de San Diego, in the Parroquia of Quitupan, Jalisco. Hijo legitimo de Faustino Villanueva and Antonia Andrade
Abuelos Paternos Juan Villanueva and Juana (Orozco)?
Abuelos Maternos Nicanor Andrade and Genoveva Medina
page number page 143. Number of the Act 356.
===========
This is image no 334 of 648. The index for this year is image 250 of 648.
here is the link
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18735-67949-36?cc=1874591&wc…
===============================================
San Diego may be the place now called Lazero Cardenas just S.E. Of Quitupan.
You can google it.. add the words either Telepaisa
Sorry about this e-mail. I read your message wrong. I thought I was suppose to send this to you instead of just posting it on the forum.
From: swprimavera123456@outlook.com
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: My e-mailed Introduction
Date: Thu, 1 May 2014 10:27:51 -0700
Hello,
I'm new to this process and to this site. I'm trying to track down my ancestor's, Francisco Villanueva Andrade's, family line. He was born in San Deigo, Quiltupan, Jalisco in 1926. Right now, I'm trying to locate his parent's birth, death certificate information and hopefully their marriage information. Their names are: Faustino Orozco and Antonia Andrade Medina.
I was told Antonia was a very devoted Catholic. I was told she was instrumental in helping their local Parrish building come to be (she contacted the Catholic Church and got the ball rolling to get a priest there...worked in the church until the day she died, and she even raised funds to get the building and priest there). The name
I think it says:
Groom: Domingo de Acosta, son of Domingo de ............... de Acosta & Petronila de Avila.
Bride: Juana Flores de Ulloa, daughter of Loreso de Ulloa & Ana de Escobedo
Regards
Victoriano Navarro
difficult.....
de A...,y de Getrudis or Gervacia de Acosta y Maria f.... Ulloa .......Lorenso de Ulloa y de Ana de Escovedo vecinos
so lorenzo ulloa and ana escobedo are her parents? if so then i need to fix my tree. i thought that her father was named francisco, but if this is correct, then francisco would be her paternal grandpa's name
With regards to the previous message I sent a few days ago if anyone has
trouble opening the link I can try sending it to you in an email. Let me
know.
Thank you Joseph,
Our website is being rebuilt so it's not current, otherwise we'd put the
notice on our website about the conference.
Anyone who wants more and detailed information about the conference can
send me an email to allieavelar@gmail.com.
Thanks,
Alicia Carrillo
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 6:47 AM, Joseph Puentes wrote:
> With regards to the previous message I sent a few days ago if anyone has
> trouble opening the link I can try sending it to you in an email. Let me
> know. Here is that previous email:
>
>
>
> Subject: Conference, Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society, August 2014
>
>
>
>
>
> Nuestros Ranchos, our 5th annual NGGS Conference
>
>
>
>
>
> Here is a link that gives much information about the Nueva Galicia
> Genealogical Society 5th Annual Conference. Please be patient as it will
> take a little while to download onto your computer:
>
>
>
>
>
> http://h2opodcast.com/misc/NuevaGaliciaGenealogicalSocietyAug2014.rtf
>
>
>
Subject: Conference, Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society, August 2014
Nuestros Ranchos, our 5th annual NGGS Conference
Here is a link that gives much information about the Nueva Galic
Nuestros Ranchos, our 5th annual NGGS Conference
Here is a link that gives much information about the Nueva Galicia
Genealogical Society 5th Annual Conference. Please be patient as it will
take a little while to down load onto your computer:
http://h2opodcast.com/misc/NuevaGaliciaGenealogicalSocietyAug2014.rtf
I am researching ancestors from Zacatecas and have found several documents from FamilySearch.org. I am stuck on one particular line on my grandmother's side.
Starting about 1862, all municipios were required by law to keep civil records of all births, deaths and marriages. And they mostly have indices in them, at least the ones I have read have all had an index in them.
So if you do a location search in familysearch, look in the civil records vice the parish records.
Sandra Velez
could you tell me if any who and when did any of jose cruz's daughters marry, and when and where did jose cruz and francisca marry
and here's so possible leads
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=mexico&id=I49…
someone here(not me) also indexed some baptism record of jerez
baptism 20 April 1869 in Jerez
Mariana de Jesus born in Jomulquillo 17 April 1869 6pm
parents: Jacinto Perez and Antonia Lopez
pat grn: Feliciano Perez and Panfila Aguilar
mat grn: Gorgonio Lopez and Eduvigis Carrillo
pad: maternal grandparents
From: Alicia Carrillo [mailto:alliecar@pacbell.net]
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 9:15 PM
To: Joseph Puentes
Subject: Last Call for Nueva Galicia Conference
Joseph,
Hola Every one , how did the Nueva Galicia conference go ?
Ronnie
Have a wonderful conference. Sorry I can't attend this year.
Looking forward to summary and photos.
Judy,
We will miss you.!
Alicia
________________________________
From: "judyjauregui@hotmail.com"
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 7:37 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] 2013, NGGS CONFERENCE
Have a wonderful conference. Sorry I can't attend this year.
Looking forward to summary and photos.
See you in Sacramento.
Greetings from New York State
Bertha and Guenter Boehm
En Busca de mis Antepasados
http://www.boehm-chronik.com/mexico/antepasados.htm
Hola a todos: Busco donde puedo accesar a los Archivos Históricos del Arzobispado de Durango, microfilmados por la: "Rio Grande Historical Collections" de la "New Mexico State University Library" pue
-----Original Message-----
From: mimilozano@somosprimos.com [mailto:mimilozano@somosprimos.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 9:27 PM
To: mimilozano@aol.com
Subject: Somos Primos May 2014
Happy Cinco de Mayo coming up!
My family's oral history includes an ancestor who came from France to fight in the French Intervention of Mexico, most likely the Batalla de Pueblo.
I logged on and found that someone else is also logged on using my name. Has this happened to anyone else. The other person is on at this moment.
R A Ricci
well if you don't have the default password, your risk of getting hacked is lower
Right after I posted that someone online was using my password, that person signed off. I have changed my password so I hope it doesn't happen again. Has anyone else had this experience of finding your user name under who's online? I wonder if this unknown person made any posts using my name.
R.A.Ricci
Among the users online, I often see the user name of a member (Arturo) repeated 2-5 times, so it may be a glitch. Right now he appears twice. If you did not logoff last time you wer online, your session may remain open.
As for if someone has been posting on your name, you can go to "Recent posts" and see all of yours, or you can go to "My account", then "Track", and you will see all the conversations in which you have taken part.
Regards,
Victoriano Navarro
Right after I posted that someone online was using my password, that person signed off. I have changed my password so I hope it doesn't happen again. Has anyone else had this experience of finding your user name under who's online? I wonder if this unknown person made any posts using my name.
R.A.Ricci
Great Great Grandfather Juan