TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

Joseph,

yes I just got back from ordering 3 films......I need to get my grandmothers and gr. grandmothers info.....first and put it all together.

Stella

This too shall pass.............

I am also interested in Helyn's Castañeda line.  If you look in the 
files section in my Sánchez report, you'll see that I have a line of 
Castañedas from Tepechitlán and Tlaltenango de Sánchez Román.  Let me 
know if you can tie them into your family.

Thanks to Steven for the unselfish way he shares information with the 
rest of the group.  I knew he would be a real asset to this group.

Maria Cortez

I'd like to welcome Helyn to the group. Here is her introduction. She
said she would be sending in her genealogy later and I in particular am
interested in seeing her Castaneda information.

joseph
=========================

Joseph, Thank you for this fantatic site. I appreciate your hard
work, and dedication in bringing us all together in our Genealogy
quest. I have been an ardent researcher at the local Family History
Center fo the past 4 years and just received a film for the late
1700's for Tlaltenango de Sanches Roman.

Was beginning to think that I was never going to graduate out of the
1800's, as a fellow researcher had encouraged me to copy all with the
surnames on my line as they are bound to be related. So, this, I have
quite the database, and happy to share information.

The surnames are Magallanas, Luna, Herrera, Carlos, Robles, Serrno,
Mota, Sandoval, Cabrera, and Gonzles.

In the Momax records, my hunt is for Castaneda, Haro, Chaves,
Contreras, and Hernandez. With Aunts that maried into Campos and
Huizar.

Also, found some Castaneda cousins in Chimaltitan, Jalisco.

Thanks again. Helyn

well I'm really glad you are making so much progress.  .  .but all I have
to say is. . ."develop." Yes now you have been given a lot of your genealogy
so don't be content with the way it is. Take some of that information and
order the films and confirm it for yourself. Take the information and develop
it further. Take some of the later generations and add some of the flesh
to the bones and add a biography to those that you can get info about. Write
your mom's or your grandmom's biography. . .it doesn't have to be (but it
can) real long but even just a few pages will be wonderful for someone to
read 5 generations from now. Start working your genealogy into a form that
you can pass to all the branches of your family so that this great information
won't be forgotten again. Let us be the generation that stops the forgetting
and starts the remembering.



"Vamos a parar ovildando y comensar acordando."



I'm so happy for you,

joseph



SJLSTAR@... wrote:

Joseph,

I can't thank you enough for what has happened to me!!! I have connected with three cousins!!! or should I say they connected with me!! This is so awesome........I never tried to trace this line because it seemed so hopeless..........yet its the easiest so far......with familysearch org the records are right online.....yes I have to order records.....etc.......but to talk to my cousins......and go to my mother and ask her this this and this..........I have been calling her everyday with something...........I use to call her once a month.......I have even reconnected with her............THANK YOU!!!!

Stella

This too shall pass.............

size=2>-----Original Message-----
From: Pacorro73@...
[mailto:Pacorro73@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 4:03
PM
To: igomezlucero@...
Subject: Catching
up.

size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Hi Irma,

I just wanted to send you this
little message to ask you if you got my latest message or if you've had a
chance to see the information on the Gutiérrez family that I sent out. 
Please let me know if you can fill in the blanks, and so I can comment on some
of your other interesting lines.

Steven H.

Attachment:
Ancestors of Benigno Gutierrez.doc

Description: MS-Word document

Attachment:
Ancestors of Juana Padilla.doc

Description: MS-Word document

Pacorro73@... wrote:

face="arial,helvetica">
lang="0">Joseph and all members of Ranchos:



In light of last weekend's discussion over the surname Martín del Campo,
and because of a very hectic weekend, I decided to belatedly throw in my
two cents worth.  The Martín del Campo family, as María Cortéz mentioned,
is indeed a family of purely Alteño origins.  Several of us, including María
Cortéz, Roberta Romero, Irma Gutiérrez Lucero, and myself, are descended
from the progenitor of the Martín del Campo clan.  I'm sure there are several
others out there who are also descendants.  Anyone with this surname is undoubtedly
related to one another.  The surname is still kept by many as Martín del
Campo, but over the centuries some descendants have shortened it to Martín
or changed it to Martínez.

So then in 1931 the doctor who signed my grandfathers death certificate:
Rafael Martin del Campo is probably related. Has anyone out there ever heard
of Rafael Martin del Campo, MD who worked around the San Fernando Valley
in the 1930's? The reason I'm asking is that Grandfather, Luis Perez, is
one of my serious challenges. My moms side of the family is a big information
void for me so whenever i see even a glimmer of possible information i get
excited.

face="arial,helvetica">
lang="0">

Hopefully, this little history on one of Los Altos' many Spanish hidalgo
families satisfies Joseph's plea

I'm a hard man to satisfy. . .content and happy yes very much and . . .thankful.
I might be able from time to time contribute some introductory material but
what you and others from the group can contribute are your deep pockets of
knowledge. thanks.

Joseph and all members of Ranchos:



In light of last weekend's discussion over the surname Martín del Campo, and because of a very hectic weekend, I decided to belatedly throw in my two cents worth.  The Martín del Campo family, as María Cortéz mentioned, is indeed a family of purely Alteño origins.  Several of us, including María Cortéz, Roberta Romero, Irma Gutiérrez Lucero, and myself, are descended from the progenitor of the Martín del Campo clan.  I'm sure there are several others out there who are also descendants.  Anyone with this surname is undoubtedly related to one another.  The surname is still kept by many as Martín del Campo, but over the centuries some descendants have shortened it to Martín or changed it to Martínez.



My research on this particular family has been ongoing for several years now, but I have not been the only one doing research on them.  Much of my data had been investigated by the late Jaime Holcombe Isunza (+).  His research is available to everyone via his many family group sheets on microfilm and on the IGI.  They are truly a gold mine!  I have also shared, networked, and obtained much information from other great genealogists.  These include Licenciado Don Mariano González Leal (through personal correspondence), María de la Luz Montejano Hilton (via her dispensation book), and SHHAR members Tony Campos, Ophelia Márquez, and Mary Lou Montagna, who personally knew Jaime Holcombe.



The progenitor and patriarch of this distinguished family of hidalgos was a gentleman by the name of don Lázaro Martín del Campo (also known as Bartolomé de San Lázaro Martín del Campo).  Don Lázaro, born around 1602, was a native of Revilla de Campos, province of Palencia, Castilla y León, España.  See http://www.pueblos-espana.org/castilla+y+leon/palencia/revilla+de+campos/

and http://es.geocities.com/nuestros_pueblos/otros_pueblos/palencia/tierra_de_campos/revilla_de_campos.htm

I read this book "Estirpe de Cazcanes; Norte de Jalisco y Sur de Zacatecas"
by Luis Sandoval Godoy. It was produced in cooperation with the University
of Guadalajara, Colotlan, Jalisco; ISBN: 968-5206-81-3



Now I said all that and I really don't even recommend the reading of this
book only because it lacks references to the subject material. The book pretty
much takes all the surrounding areas (Colotlan, Tepechitlan, Tlaltenango,
Momax ) and tells some background stories. Background History of an area
can help us understand things as we do our research. Sometimes records are
missing or there are gaps. Or sometimes records are found in unusual or unexpected
places. Some of the following kinds of events are very possibly the reasons
why these different from the norm situations can and do happen.



=============



Here are a couple of things that were interesting and needful of further
study both for confirmation and for additional details.



-------------------



The Revolucion Cristera took its toll on the Colotlan area:



     "Don Mateo Correa fue uno de los sacerdotes martires de la region, desollado
de las plantas de los pies, cortada la lengua en fracciones se le hizo sufrir
horriblemente, hasta que murio."



-----------------



Terrible epidemics often affected the region:



     "Colotlan volvia a ser sacudido por la epidemia del colera. Lo habia
sido, con sin igual rudeza, el ano de 33 y ahora, en 1850, volvia ser castigado
por el mal."



Side note: while I was going over films of  deaths in Santa Maria de Los
Angeles, Jalisco I got to a certain place where every cause of death was
listed as Colera. I backtracked and found a 3 month period in 1835 where
out of 110 deaths 104 of them were caused by Colera. These times of Epidemics
must have been terrifying times in the lives of our relatives.



-----------------



In talking about the use of Adobe in the construction of the buildings with
regards to the terrible devastations the region was subject to by Earthquakes:



     "La primera pudo ser aquella iglesia de adobe y techo de vigas de madera,
derrumbada en el temblor que sacudio a la region el ano de 1761.

This is what I was talking about when I said we need to start digging
into the History of our area of research. . .in the context of this
group that area being the estados de Jalisco y Zacatecas. Recently
Steven Hernandez send two magnificient emails to Irma Gomez Lucero
giving wonderful historical background for the Los Altos area.

Earlier today I uploaded two Census Information scans from the area of
present day Calvillo, Aguascalientes provided by Gloria Delgado. Then
she sent me this email and it has just a few lines of Historical
information which I'm sure shes going to add to later. Now if we all
made it our goal to dig out one or two nuggets of the history of our
particular area of research maybe something will somehow make sense to
someone. . .in this email from Gloria she said something that might have
interest to those of you studying the Villa de Refugio or Tabasco,
Zacatecas area. Thanks again Gloria:

Hi Joseph,

Thank you, I'm glad you think it's a good contribution. I've been doing
research for a number of years but am not knowledgeable about computers,
much less scanners, so appreciate any help.

I'm getting better at typing, and hope to make more contributions to the
group as my broken arm heals. There's a great map of this area that we
got from UC Berkeley, will scan later and send it along.

Yes that's the area where my father's family came from, he was a
CALVILLO, and some of my MARQUES, ESCOBAR and URSUA ancestors were born
on the lands of the Hacienda San Jose de Cieneguilla and La Triana, both
mentioned in the census. I've slowly been going through all the
postings and share surnames with many of the members, but so far no bingo!

Actually I wonder if Huejucar Jalisco may have gotten its name from
settlers coming from the ancient Valle de Huejucar?

Thanks to Gloria Delgado we now have two scans in the files section
for the Valle de Huejucar area of present day Calvillo,
Aguascalientes. If some of your relatives came from those areas or the
Ranchos in present day Zacatecas bordering Aguascalientes you should
take a look at these scans. There are several films covering this area
in the Calvillo, Aguascalientes church.

Thanks Gloria,

joseph

I'd like to welcome Charles Clark to the group.

When everyone has a chance go to the "Links" area and see the link to
his genealogy. . .which is tied into Deena Ortiz' rootsweb site.

joseph

Hi Joseph,

I don't think Martin del Campo is a common surname except in Los 
Altos de Jalisco.  Three of my grandparents were from Los Altos and 
all three have Martin del Campo in their ancestry.  I am guessing 
they are all related, but right now I only have a couple of them 
connected.  I've read that all the Martin del Campo's from Los Altos 
descend from Lazaro Martin del Campo (the one you uploaded a family 
group sheet for).

Maria

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Puentes" <makas@n...> wrote:
> 
> So someone educate me. . .is the surname Martin del Campo a very
> common last name? Maria with all those Martin del Campo's in several
> differnt lines of various ones in the group it seems there should 
be a
> cross somewhere. Or is Martin del Campo kind of like Smith?
> 
> joseph

Sayula, Jalisco Bautismos: 1651-1875

C603475 1658 0224934

Batch No.:       Dates:               Source Call No.:

C603471 1651 - 1679 0224930
J603472 1679 - 1697 0224931
J603473 1697 - 1719 0224932
C603474 1719 - 1733 0224933
C603475 1733 - 1748 0227934

J603476 1756 - 1764 0224935
J603477 1765 - 1777 0224936
C603478 1777 - 1785 0224937
J603479 1785 - 1794 0224938
J603481 1794 - 1801 0224939
C603482 1801 - 1807 0224940
C603483 1807 - 1816 0224941
C603484 1816 - 1821 0224942

C603485      1821 - 1824       0224943

C603486 1824 - 1828 0224944
C603487 1828 - 1834 0224945
C603488 1834 - 1842 0224946
C603489 1842 - 1846 0224947
C603491 1846 - 1852 0224948
C603492 1852 - 1856 0224949
C603493 1856 - 1859 0224950
C603494 1859 - 1862 0224951
C603495 1862 - 1864 0224952
C603496 1864 - 1866 0224953
C603497 1866 - 1870 0224954
J603498 1870 - 1875 0224955

Matrimonios: 1708-1772

Batch No.:       Dates:       Source Call No.:

M603502 1708 - 1744 0224983
M603503 1744 - 1772 0224984

Just wanted to welcome Jose Luis Macias to the group.

take a look in the "links" section under "genealogies" for a link to
his rootsweb site.

joseph

So someone educate me. . .is the surname Martin del Campo a very
common last name? Maria with all those Martin del Campo's in several
differnt lines of various ones in the group it seems there should be a
cross somewhere. Or is Martin del Campo kind of like Smith?

joseph

ps: I bet ya a DNA test would show our Puentes were related but other
than that it might take a few more generations back. I'm going to
resume my backward search at the end of the Summer. Until then I'm
trying to gather as much Oral History as I can. When I resume my
search I'll be ordering films from Sombrerete, Zacatecas where I think
 my Justo Puente was married and from Tlaltenango where I think my
Diaz line came from. 

-- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "readysetgo95814" <mcortez@s...> wrote:
> I updated my reports.  Look in the files section for them.
> 
> Note to Joseph:  The entry I had written to you about previously is 
> for María Gregoria Puentes.  María Gregoria was born in Palos Altos 
> on 10 May 1804. She was the illegitimate child of José Quirino 
> Puentes and Urbana Puentes.  The paternal grandparents were not named 
> and the maternal grandparents were:  Blas Puentes and Victoria 
> Péres.  María Gregoria was "de calidad Mestiza".  Let me know if they 
> are related to your Puentes' ancestors.
> 
> Maria Cortez

I updated my reports.  Look in the files section for them.

Note to Joseph:  The entry I had written to you about previously is 
for María Gregoria Puentes.  María Gregoria was born in Palos Altos 
on 10 May 1804. She was the illegitimate child of José Quirino 
Puentes and Urbana Puentes.  The paternal grandparents were not named 
and the maternal grandparents were:  Blas Puentes and Victoria 
Péres.  María Gregoria was "de calidad Mestiza".  Let me know if they 
are related to your Puentes' ancestors.

Maria Cortez

My wife is working from home today and is tying up the internet 
connection but she gave it to me long enough to reply to your message.

You have a gift for understatement. . .you said, "I hope you got 
something out of this." 

well up until this point I was feeling a bit cocky thinking that I 
was just starting to get comfortable with my ability to navigate the 
www.familysearch.org web page. . .well now I know that I have a long 
way to go.

Sincerely thank you for your help with this. Your message tought me 
several things. Most importantly how that assumption is a terrible 
thing in Genealogy. When I saw the records of them having children in 
Huejucar I "assumed" that was where they were from and stopped 
looking for them in Santa Maria de Los Angeles. I even have one of 
those films (1158281) and thought I had gone through it 
thoroughly. . .shows I have a ways to go in my research technique.

thank you for your effort on my behalf and your contribution to the 
group. I hope one day to be able to give back what I've learned to 
those with less knowledge.

Joseph

Hi Joseph,



Did you know that certain marriage abstracts in the IGI contain the names of the bride and groom's parents?  Well your pentabuelos marriage record of them in the IGI does.  It appears that they were married in a place called Santa María de los Angeles, Jalisco.  Heard of it?  Here is their marriage abstract from the IGI.



IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0

  Mexico

Search Results  | Download | Pedigree





JOSE RAFAEL TORRES

  Male   Family



Parents:

Greetings once again Ranchos group.



Hi Irma,

       I hope this message finds you well.  I just finished reviewing your latest Gutiérrez lineage and after much researching and putting all the pieces together, I have mostly good news to report.  It seems that the two Gutiérrez lines in your last file, are also the same as the Gutiérrez line of your great-grandmother, Tomasa Gutiérrez.  This makes three lines that broke off and then rejoined later on.  More on this in the following paragraph.  More precisely, these are branches of the Gutiérrez de Hermosillo family, one of the Hermosillo families I was telling you about the other day.  In fact Irma, you are very closely related to two cousins of mine, good friends and fellow genealogists, Miguel Gutiérrez (Mike) and Gabriel Gutiérrez, second cousins to each other.  Mike's direct line is Gutiérrez de Hermosillo and Gabriel's is Gutiérrez de Mendoza y Laris, a different branch of the same Gutiérrez line, but not through the Hermosillo surname.  And by the looks of it you have still have other lines of Gutiérrez in your family.  Wow, you are your own cousin.  Weird, isn't it?

class=016484620-30042003>Irma

Attachment:
Descendants of Miguel Gutierrezs.doc

Description: MS-Word document

Dear Irma,



I'm so glad you enjoyed the few bits of data I was able to put together for you.  I am currently sending more and these should also be available in the files section of Ranchos.  When I have a chance I'll post a simple overview of my basic lineage and then I'll into more detail.  But even before that, Irma, I'll send you something showing my connection to your families...I mean...our families.  The thing is, we share so many ancestors, I don't even know where to begin.  And just to give you an idea, I have been researching for a little over ten years.  I've gleaned my ancestry not just from microfilm but from the various books that have already been published about Alteño genealogy.



Just before I even got your reply with the answer as to who Ma. Josepha Pérez's parents were, I had already done a little digging and discovered them for myself.  I have tons of indefinite films from every town in Los Altos at my local family history center, including San Miguel el Alto and Jalos.  I researched one of the her siblings and found out that Ma. Josepha's parents were Joseph Bernardo Pérez de Paredes and María Micaela Gutiérrez de Mendoza, individuals I already had in my family tree program.  See, all I needed was to make the connection.  In case you want to get their actual marriage record, here's their IGI info:



IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0

  Mexico

Search Results  | Download | Pedigree

This is only for the next time you're at the FHC and have lots of spare time
on your hands. . .otherwise ignor:



If anyone has these films from Huejucar and can possibly copy and scan/mail
them to me I would be indebted. I know I'll eventually get to Huejucar in
ordering films but that might not be for quite a little while. . .in the
mean time I'm very much wondering who my Pentabuelos*** the parents of my
Trastarabuelos*** Rafael and Trinidad are:





Maria Micaela Torres Marquez: parents-Jose Rafael Torres/Maria Trinidad
Marquez



04 Oct. 1830 baptism



=========================



Jose Estevan de Jesus Torres Marquez: parents-Jose Rafael Torres/Maria
Trinidad Marquez



29 Dec 1831 Baptism





thanks,



joseph



*** http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/7215/generaciones.htm (Thanks
Steven)

Mary,

I have heard of a Valpariso in Chile My great parents were born there.



Stella

This too shall pass.............