TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

okay so how come you all have been keeping the 1855 Colotlan area census
a secret? I was thrilled when I found the 1817 Census awhile ago but am simply
blown away by what i found in the 1855 Census. Seems like "all, todos, or
at least muchos" of the familia that I have researched since this past August
showed up on this film. If you have family in any of the Ranchos I've listed
you might want to order this film. Oh sorry for the bad handwriting but as
the list got longer I changed my mind about typing the info. Please do ask
me to explain any spelling variations you might perceive as a result of bad
handwriting. . .just be glad I was recording the info several centuries ago.



joseph



ps: On this film I found my ggg grandfather Cipriano Puente, my ggg grandparents
Antonio Gonzales/Ignacia Gonzales, my gg grandgrandparents Cecilio Puente/Dominga
Varela, My gg grandparents: Maximo Gonzales/Serapia Diaz and my g grandfather
Julio Puente. . .not to mention many many other relatives I've grown to love
en buscando mi sangre.



===================

Title

Documentos eclesiásticos, 1855

Authors

Iglesia Católica. San Luis Obispo (Colotlán, Jalisco) (Main Author)

Notes

Microfilm de manuscritos en Colotlán.

CONTENIDO: Padron, 1855.

Subjects

Mexico, Jalisco, Colotlán - Church records

Format

Manuscript (On Film)

Language

Spanish

Publication

Salt Lake City : Filmado por la Sociedad Genealógica de Utah, 1961

Physical

1 rollo de microfilm ; 35 mm.

Film Notes

Note - Location [Film]

Documentos eclesiásticos -  FHL INTL Film [ 443798 ]

© 2000 Intellectual Reserve,
Inc. All rights reserved.

okay I am a very beginning HTML'er so I managed to get the Name
Variation messages on my personal website and linked to it in the
links area. Please take a look. Note the URL is pretty long if
perchance it doesn't work it might be because it wrapped to the next
line and it would be necessary to rebuild it in the URL address
window.

thanks,

joseph

http://www.usgenealogy.net/members/joseph27703/ima
ges/namevariations.html

muchisimas gracias a Deena, Angie y Steven. Gracias tambien a los otros que
contestaron este "thread." E aprendido mucho de ustedes. Gracias otra vez.




If no one has any problem with this I was going to make up a file consisting
of Deena's, Angies and Steven's Emails and put it in the files section. .
.yes definitely much easier than trying to list all the possible variations.
Now I guess you can understand that I am trying to progress from specific
examples to general rules and hopefully one day to an understanding of the
ideas and principles of what is involved in the type of research we are undertaking.
. . .otra vez gracias.



joseph



ps: oh yeah, I originally had intended in blending all the replies i received
on the name variation database subject into a single database that would
be used for both the "Ranchos" and "Ciudad Juarez" groups. Unless you contact
me and specifically tell me not to I'm going to create and identical "file"
message for the "Ciudad Juarez" group.



Pacorro73@... wrote:

face="arial,helvetica">
lang="0">Stupendous!! 

Deena, I agree with you, but I think you left a few out.

H and G.  Huizar vs Guizar; Huerta vs Guerta.
I and E.  Carrion vs Carreon; Arteaga vs Artiaga.
The S at the end can always be dropped.  Conchas vs Concha; Campos vs 
Campo; Correas vs Correa; Torres vs Torre.

Also you can combine some of the rules; for example...LL equals a Y, 
which in turn equals an I.  I have seen Ayon spelled Allyon, Ayyon, 
Allon, Alon, Aion and of course Ayon.

Also you have to think about bad handwriting: a, u, and o generally 
look similar.  For example, Gaeta vs Gueta.  Godina vs Godino.

And some letters are doubled or not: l, s, t, and r.  Valensuela vs 
Valenssuela; Torres vs Tores; Enrriques vs Enriques.

There are several articles on genealogy.com that talk about many of 
these rules.  They talk about names in general but I think some of 
the rules may apply to Spanish surnames.  Two of the articles are:

Spelling Doesn't Count --> http://www.genealogy.com/62_donna.html
Name and Word Spellings --> http://www.genealogy.com/00000015.html

Hope they are useful.

Angie Godina

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Deena Ortiz" <drortiz@v...> wrote:
> For starters  ;-)
> 
>         The name "Dionicio" and "Leonicio" appear to have been used
> interchangeably.
> 
> Maria del Carmel called Carmel or Carmen
> Josefa and Sanjose
> Jose, Josef, Joseph
> 
>         I had not thought of name variation in terms of spelling as 
there
> were no standardized spellings.  For example:
> 
> Anything with an "s" could also be found with a "z" and sometimes 
a "c" or
> an "x."
> The letter "b" could always be substituted for "v."
> "F" was often spelled with "ph."
> The Spanish "ll" was frequently spelled with "y" or one "l" might be
> dropped:
> The "h" may or may not be there: Ortega/Hortega
> The letters "i" and "y" are interchanged; sometimes "hi" and "y" are
> interchanged:  Hilario/Ylario
> The letter "j" is frequently spelled with "x" or sometimes "g": 
Tejeda,
> Texeda, Tegeda
> The letter "t" is frequently interchanged with "th": Torres/Thorres 
or
> Marthin/Martin
> "U" is spelled with a "V": Ulloa/Vlloa
> 
>         That said, I have found Xauregui spelled at least ten 
different
> ways; the same family may have used a shortened form of the 

Stupendous!! 



There you go, you got it.  Best analysis I've seen yet.  People, save this message.  Print it out and do all you can short of framing it have it handy.  Memorize it word for word, letter for letter.  Excellent breakdown Deena!! 



Everyone as soon as you integrate the INFININTE variations in name spellings, given the basic rules and guidelines that Deena has put together, the better.  Just accept it, and move on.  Your research will proceed at a faster pace once you understand and are open minded to the fact that spellings of names and simple common words was not standardized back in the old days.  Do not mentally restrain yourself when confronted with differences in spelling or grammar.



You have to understand that the letters that Deena has specified all relate to a specific sound or phoneme.  The letters B and V both produce the exact same sound.  In proper Spanish, there is no difference between "B de burro" y "V de vaca," as they say.  The sound produced in Spanish is a bilabial voiced obstruate, meaning with both lips pressed together as your vocal chords vibrate and push air between the lips.  The two letters are merely orthographic representations of the same phonemic articulation, whereas in English they are not.  Example of B/V interchange, one of my surnames, Valdivia:  Valdivia, Valdibia, Baldibia, Baldivia.

For starters  ;-)

        The name "Dionicio" and "Leonicio" appear to have been used
interchangeably.

Maria del Carmel called Carmel or Carmen
Josefa and Sanjose
Jose, Josef, Joseph

        I had not thought of name variation in terms of spelling as there
were no standardized spellings.  For example:

Anything with an "s" could also be found with a "z" and sometimes a "c" or
an "x."
The letter "b" could always be substituted for "v."
"F" was often spelled with "ph."
The Spanish "ll" was frequently spelled with "y" or one "l" might be
dropped:
The "h" may or may not be there: Ortega/Hortega
The letters "i" and "y" are interchanged; sometimes "hi" and "y" are
interchanged:  Hilario/Ylario
The letter "j" is frequently spelled with "x" or sometimes "g": Tejeda,
Texeda, Tegeda
The letter "t" is frequently interchanged with "th": Torres/Thorres or
Marthin/Martin
"U" is spelled with a "V": Ulloa/Vlloa

        That said, I have found Xauregui spelled at least ten different
ways; the same family may have used a shortened form of the spelling as in
Xaure or Jaure while others spelled it Xauregui, Jauregui, Xaurigui,
Jaurigui, Xaurigue, Jauregui, Hauregui, Haurigui, Xaurequi, Jaurequi,
Xauriqui, Jauriqui, etc.

        When I started my research, I was surprised to see that the accent
marks and other punctation marks associated with Spanish were not used.
Also, anything that could be abbreviated often was.

~Deena Ortiz~

Here are a few more:

Campos, Ocampo
Carcamo, Carcomo
de Haro
Enriques, Enrriques, Henriques, Henrriques
Luna, de Luna
Magallanes, Magallanez
Martinez, Martines
Mejia, Mexia
Melendes, Melendez, Melendres, Melendrez
Munoz, Munos
Placencia, Placensia, Plasencia, Plascencia,
Placenscia, Plasenscia
Ramirez, Ramires
Reynoso, Reynozo, Reinoso, Reinozo
Robles, de Robles
Salazar, Zalasar
Saldivar, Zaldivar
Santellan, Santillan
Sid, Cid
Soria, de Soria
Villavicensio, Villavisencio
Yslas, Islas

     -Esther



--- rosa9972 <lareina2@...> wrote:
> Here are some more:
> 
> Ayon, Allon
> Aro, Haro, de Aro
> Arceo, Harceo
> Artiaga, Arteaga
> Carreon, Carrion
> Covarrubias, Cobarrubias, Cobarruvios, de las
> Covarrubias, Santa   
>            Maria y Covarrubias
> Godoy, Godoi, Carlos de Godoy
> Grano, Grana, Campo y Grano
> Gutierres del Palacio
> Jara, Xara, Fernandez de Jara
> Leiba, Leyva, Leiva, Leyba
> Llanos Valdes, Llamos y Valdes, Llanos y Valdes,
> Llanes Valdes, 
>            Llamas, Valdes, Valdez, Baldes
> Loera, Luera
> Magallanes, Magayanes
> Mallorga, Mayorga
> Ponce, Ponze
> Rojas, Roxas
> Urena, Ureno, de Urena, Vreno, Vrena 
> 
> Rosalinda
> 
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes
> <makas@n...> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Joseph Puentes wrote:
> > 
> > >Godina,  Godoi, Godoy
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > I thought Godina and Godoy were two different
> names?
> > 
> > Now this brings up where I'm going with this
> database. These 
> entries 
> > until I put them in the files section should be 
> considered "drafts." 
> > They are open to discussion and correction. First
> names will be 
> > separated from last names.
> > 
> > I haven't enough experience to say for sure but
> isn't Javier only 
> a 
> > given name? If so I'll be putting that one in a
> future given names 
> > database.
> > 
> > Now if everyone in the group would just take a few
> minutes and 
> consider 
> > their own particular names of research and only
> submit those we'd 
> have a 
> > sizable database in no time. So keep those
> contributions coming. 
> I'll 
> > try to put them in alphabetic order and we'll go
> from there.
> > 

Dear Ranchos group,



I just noticed that someone mentioned the surname Alvarez del Castillo.  Who has seen it?  And where?  When?  I have never seen that surname outside of Arandas, Ayo el Chico, Guadalajara, and Michoacán.



Steven H.

Here are some more:

Ayon, Allon
Aro, Haro, de Aro
Arceo, Harceo
Artiaga, Arteaga
Carreon, Carrion
Covarrubias, Cobarrubias, Cobarruvios, de las Covarrubias, Santa   
           Maria y Covarrubias
Godoy, Godoi, Carlos de Godoy
Grano, Grana, Campo y Grano
Gutierres del Palacio
Jara, Xara, Fernandez de Jara
Leiba, Leyva, Leiva, Leyba
Llanos Valdes, Llamos y Valdes, Llanos y Valdes, Llanes Valdes, 
           Llamas, Valdes, Valdez, Baldes
Loera, Luera
Magallanes, Magayanes
Mallorga, Mayorga
Ponce, Ponze
Rojas, Roxas
Urena, Ureno, de Urena, Vreno, Vrena 

Rosalinda


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes <makas@n...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Joseph Puentes wrote:
> 
> >Godina,  Godoi, Godoy
> >
> >  
> >
> I thought Godina and Godoy were two different names?
> 
> Now this brings up where I'm going with this database. These 
entries 
> until I put them in the files section should be 
considered "drafts." 
> They are open to discussion and correction. First names will be 
> separated from last names.
> 
> I haven't enough experience to say for sure but isn't Javier only 
a 
> given name? If so I'll be putting that one in a future given names 
> database.
> 
> Now if everyone in the group would just take a few minutes and 
consider 
> their own particular names of research and only submit those we'd 
have a 
> sizable database in no time. So keep those contributions coming. 
I'll 
> try to put them in alphabetic order and we'll go from there.
> 
> I'm probably going to make a general introduction about the 
> interchangeable use of "s" and "z" in names
> 
> so who is the next bold person to dare to submit their particular 
name 
> variations???
> 
> joseph
> 
> ps: oh yeah here are a few more from mine
> 
> Varela, Barela
> Aguallo, Aguayo
> Alvarez, Albarez
> Leanos, Leano
> Espinosa, Espinoza
> Banuelos, Vanuelos
> Miranda, de Miranda
> Muro, del Muro
> Nava, de Nava
> Casas, de Casas

Fonseca, Fonceca
Avila, Abila, Davila,  De Avila
Villegas, Billegas, Viyegas

_________________________________________________________________

STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
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Does anyone know if this is the same Fresnillo as Fresnillo, Zacatecas? Does
anyone know where this person can get info on her situation?



thanks,



joseph

Hi List,  I hope someone can help.   My husbands' family lived on a farm around San Jose de Fresnillo.  When my husband  Antonio  was 8  (1945)  his father died, the the family had to leave the farm.   Last night a sister called from El Paso, Tx.   saying that someone is looking for the family of Jose Acevedo, because they are building a road or something through the area of the farm.  No one in the family that we know of has any papers on the farm.   We don't know when he bought it, or anything about it.  We didn't even know they still owned it.      Is there somewhere we could write or call for info.?     Thanks sooooo much.       Debbie

Joseph Puentes wrote:

Godina,  Godoi, Godoy

  

I thought Godina and Godoy were two different names?



Now this brings up where I'm going with this database. These entries until
I put them in the files section should be considered "drafts." They are open
to discussion and correction. First names will be separated from last names.



I haven't enough experience to say for sure but isn't Javier only a given
name? If so I'll be putting that one in a future given names database.



Now if everyone in the group would just take a few minutes and consider their
own particular names of research and only submit those we'd have a sizable
database in no time. So keep those contributions coming. I'll try to put
them in alphabetic order and we'll go from there.



I'm probably going to make a general introduction about the interchangeable
use of "s" and "z" in names



so who is the next bold person to dare to submit their particular name variations???



joseph



ps: oh yeah here are a few more from mine



Varela, Barela

Aguallo, Aguayo

Alvarez, Albarez

Leanos, Leano

Espinosa, Espinoza

Banuelos, Vanuelos

Miranda, de Miranda

Muro, del Muro

Nava, de Nava

Casas, de Casas

okay we have a start thanks to Gloria McCrary, Tony, and Kitty Cortez. (this
is a joint effort of both the Ranchos and Juarez groups).

Armijo, Armigo
Baca, Vaca
Benavides, Venavides, Benabides
Castillo, Alvarez del Castillo
Cedillo,  Sedillo
Godina,  Godoi, Godoy
Guevara,  Marcelino, Nino Ladon de Guevara, Marzelino Ladron 
Guevara, Ladon de Guevara
Javier, Xavier
Lucero, Lucero de Godoy

Maese, Maes  [ Some of the Maese families which stayed in the El 
Paso area after the Request keep the old spelling of Maes--accent 
on the letter e]
Maese, Maise, and Messe

Olguin, Holguin
Rael, Rael de Aguilar
Raigosa, Raygosa
Ribera, Rivera
Sanchez, Sanches  [ and other similar names ending in "z" ]
Sandoval,  Sandobal
Serrano, Zerrano,
Vasquez,  Basquez,
Velasquez, Belasquez
Valencia, Balencia
Vallejo, Ballejo
Villegas, Billegas

Many of the name variations were due to the priest's entries.  I have 
read somewhere that French priests made many of the "mistakes" .

Maese, Maes  [ Some of the Maese families which stayed in the El 
Paso area after the Request keep the old spelling of Maes--accent 
on the letter e]

Guevara,  Marcelino, Nino Ladon de Guevara, Marzelino Ladron 
Guevara, Ladon de Guevara

Armijo, Armigo
Castillo, Alvarez del Castillo
Lucero, Lucero de Godoy
Rael, Rael de Aguilar
Olguin, Holguin
Javier, Xavier
Sanchez, Sanches  [ and other similar names ending in "z" ]
Baca, Vaca
Vallejo, Ballejo
Valencia, Balencia

* * * *
Gloria

has anyone ever seen the Mandonado variation for Maldonado? I have some
records where the names are used as variations of one another.

It might be a good project to one day start putting together a database
of the different variations of the more common surnames.

I'd also love to form a database with the various given names and
nicknames for these nicknames.

thanks,

joseph

Maldonado, Baldonado, Mandonado
Varela, Barela
Rodriguez, Rodrigues
Gomez, Gomes

Gonzales, Gonsales, Gonzalez, Gonsalez (i'm not sure I've seen this last
one)

Perez, Peres

ps: feel free to add to this list. . .

thanks Carol,



My apologies to the group. I should have made it clear that I was talking
about the Mexican Census. that book I referenced in my original message was
the 1940 Mexican Census. I am interested in finding out where I can find
the 1900, 1910, and 1920 Mexican Census' if they are in existence and/or
available to the general public.



sorry for the confusion,



joseph



Carol Turner wrote:

Joseph, I've
heard that Heritage Quest does this but before you purchase any CD's check
with your library for inter-library loan.  I know the Johnson County library
here in KS could get these through Heritage Quest.  I was looking into immigration
records/border registrations for El Paso and Eagle Pass, Texas but then found
out the National archives had what I needed so I didn't have to go through
the Public library.  There is a magazine called Heritage Quest, I'll check
in the back for their web-site, I'm always picking up Family Tree and several
other types of Gen. magazines.

Carol

Joseph Puentes wrote:

 is this for the Mexican Census? What years
are available and what is the

cost? What is their website address?

thanks,

joseph

SAGACorpus@... wrote:

Joseph, I've heard that Heritage Quest does this but before you purchase
any CD's check with your library for inter-library loan.  I know the
Johnson County library here in KS could get these through Heritage Quest. 
I was looking into immigration records/border registrations for El Paso
and Eagle Pass, Texas but then found out the National archives had what
I needed so I didn't have to go through the Public library.  There
is a magazine called Heritage Quest, I'll check in the back for their web-site,
I'm always picking up Family Tree and several other types of Gen. magazines.

Carol

Joseph Puentes wrote:

 is this for the Mexican Census? What years
are available and what is the

cost? What is their website address?

thanks,

joseph

SAGACorpus@... wrote:

No, these are not the Mexican Census records.  The only place I have seen 
census records for Mexico has been through LDS.  There is a book published by 
Lyman Platt that gave much information on where you could locate census records 
for Mexico.  It is probably listed in the Library Catalog in Salt Lake City.

I was referring to US Census records on CD.  Heritage Quest has done an 
excellent job and I have enjoyed tremendously what I purchased for counties in 
Texas.  I did notice today as I looked through what is available for Texas that 
immigration records found on microfilm are available on CDs.  Alien cards for 
those passing through Eagle Pass are on CD.  I am interested in those coming 
through Roma and Brownsville, but those were not included in their listing.

website address:  www.heritagequest.com/ 
Mira

<< is this for the Mexican Census? What years are available and what is the 
 cost? What is their website address? >>

is this for the Mexican Census? What years are available and what is the
cost? What is their website address?

thanks,

joseph

SAGACorpus@... wrote:

Joseph,

I have used census records which I purchased from Heritage Quest at a nominal
price. The retrieval time is excellent. The graphics are excellent
and the price of the CD is minimal. You can enjoy viewing census records
without
worrying about microfilm or a reader. It is a great investment. I recommend
Heritage Quest's products as I have been very satisfied. I can save lots of
time traveling to and from the library and I can view records at home at any
hour.
Sincerely,

Mira Smithwick

<< does anyone have info on the availability of other 20th century census
other than the 1930 census that can be found in the LDS Family History
Library Catalog?

I found this book and was wondering if there is a 1900 and 1910 and 1920
Census someplace that we can somehow access? >>

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
ranchos-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Joseph,
I have used census records which I purchased from Heritage Quest at a nominal 
price.  The retrieval time is excellent.  The graphics are excellent
 and the price of the CD is minimal.  You can enjoy viewing census records 
without 
worrying about microfilm or a reader.  It is a great investment.  I recommend 
Heritage Quest's products as I have been very satisfied.  I can save lots of 
time traveling to and from the library and I can view records at home at any 
hour.  
Sincerely,
Mira Smithwick
<< does anyone have info on the availability of other 20th century census 
 other than the 1930 census that can be found in the LDS Family History 
 Library Catalog?
 
 I found this book and was wondering if there is a 1900 and 1910 and 1920 
 Census someplace that we can somehow access? >>

I haven't checked into the census, but I plan on searching the 1900 and 1910 census for Cameron County (Texas).  But try this link and see if it helps.



http://www.dallaslibrary.org





A. Garza

does anyone have info on the availability of other 20th century census
other than the 1930 census that can be found in the LDS Family History
Library Catalog?

I found this book and was wondering if there is a 1900 and 1910 and 1920
Census someplace that we can somehow access?

thanks,

joseph

ps:

Location Main library at University of Arizona, Tucson.
Call # HA762 .A5
Author Mexico. Dirección General de Estadística.
Title 6 censo de población, 1940.
LOCATION CALL NO. STATUS
 Main Oversize  HA762 .A5  Vol. 24    IN LIBRARY
 Main Oversize  HA762 .A5  v.31    IN LIBRARY
Other title Sexto censo de población, 1940.

Publisher [México] Secretaría de la economía nacional, Dirección general
de estadística, 1943-1948.

Subjects Mexico -- Census, 1940.

Contents [1] Aguascalientes. Baja California, territorios norte y
sur.--[2] Campeche.--[3] Chiapas.--[4] Chihuahua.--[5] Coahuila.--[6]
Colima.--[7] Distrito Federal.--[8] Durango.--[9] Guanajuato.--[10]
Guerrero.--[11] Hidalgo.--[12] Jalisco.--[13] Estado de México.--[14]
Michoacán.--[15] Morelos.--[16] Nayarit.--[17] Nuevo León.--[18]
Oaxaca.--[19] Puebla.--[20] Querétaro.--[21] Quintana Roo.--[22] San
Luis Potosí.--[23] Sinaloa.--[24] Sonora.--[25] Tabasco.--[26]
Tamaulipas.--[27] Tlaxcala.--[28] Veracruz.--[29] Yucatán.--[30]
Zacatecas.--[31] Resumen general.

Description 31 v. maps. 23 x 35cm.

I just thought I would add my own 2 cents worth
here......If you are tracing any ancestors into the
States, keep in mind that "name switching" may in fact
be in play.  Custom in the U.S. is that Mario Sanchez
Garcia is in fact Mario Garcia.  I have seen this
numerous times.  In fact, I know of a common day
situation in which there is an individual named Jose
Chavez Munoz that came to the States and has had to
conform to this custom because some Authority figure
told him his name was Jose Munoz and not Jose Chavez. 
He was forced to marry under the name of Munoz because
that is what all his legal documents said his name
was.  His children are now Munoz - Not Chavez.

Joseph, as for the name Maldonado I have only seen it
spelled with "de" and with an "ñ".  Good luck!

     -Esther

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