Dr.mt

Indios de Jalisco y Zacatecas y Mexico

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Here is one webpage that has info on the various combinations of racial
mixes:



http://www.multiracial.com/readers/farmer8.html



=================



here is another article by John Schmal that gives some of the Indios of
Zacatecas:



http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/jpschmal/jsindigenouszacatecas.html



and in general:



http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/jpschmal/jsindigenousmexico.html



also have a look at this issue of Somos Primos for another great
article on the Indigenous Languages of Jalisco



http://www.somosprimos.com/spmay02.htm#Indigenous  about page 77 but
also look at the pages following page 66 for some good information with
references for more reading materials.



also check this issue for this article:
size="4"> MORALES: 

FROM INDIGENOUS TO MEXICAN TO AMERICAN

 By 

Donna S. Morales and John P. Schmal



http://www.somosprimos.com/spsep02.htm#UNITED%20STATES



also check this article in this issue:



bgcolor="#000099">


color="#ffffff">LEARNING ABOUT NORTHERN JALISCO

by John P. Schmal

More about Nopales

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Here's more on Nopales

 

My family originates from Zacatecas, specifically Tlachichila from the Municipality of Nochistlan. As we all know many people have migrated to the Norte or Los Estados Unidos or as many say El Otro Lado. I grew up in the US of A in San Jose Calif in an all Anglo community and one thing I didn't want to be was different from the rest of my class. However different we were. We had to speak spanish at home which for one who doesn't want to be different or admit to anyone that you're different this was a tough one to hide.

 

When we brought friends home we had to speak spanish to my parents and if someone stayed over for lunch or dinner we had tortillas, nopales, salsa, mole etc etc.( trying pretending that you're not Mexican). Our parents knew that we were ashamed and a famous saying was "what are you trying to hide, anyone who sees you can see the nopales on your forehead and hanging on your ears. Translation "De que to escondes, se te ven los nopales en la frente y los traes colgados de las orejas". When I was young I couldn't understand this saying having been raised here since I was two and not knowing what Mexico looked like. The first time I went in 1977 I finally understood what they meant by Los Nopales on the forehead. Nopales grew wild everywhere in that region. They even fed nopales to the cows when there was nothing else to feed them during the dry season. They would burn or scald off the thorns then feed them to the cows, how's that for a recipe for nopales.

 

Just a little Zacatecas family story.

Alicia


 

Zacatecas and Jalisco Nopales, Ensalada de Nopales

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Ensalada De Nopales

 

Cut and clean the nopales. That is what we call it limpiar (clean) los Nopales.

 

Dice into bite size cubes. Boil in water with fresh oregano 2 sprigs, fresh cilantro two sprigs, two smashed cloves of garlic,  1/4 onion, 2 tsps salt. Boil until they reached the desired tenderness about 20 minutes. Drain and rinse thoroughly. Allow to cool completely.

 

Remove the smashed garlic, 1/4 onion, sprigs of cilantro and oregano.

 

1/2 onion, finely chopped

1 tomato diced

fresh cilantro chopped finely about 10 sprigs

1 cup queso fresco, diced or crumbled (this is mexican cheese) In California it's usually El Mexicano brand but there could be others. Other states I don't know.

1 serrano or jalapeno chile finely minced

For dressing, juice of 1/2 lemon, 3 tablespoons rice wine vinegar,  olive oil about 1/2 cup,

salt and pepper to taste.

 

Enjoy!  I guessed on the quantities because of course everything is passed on by word of mouth or visually you just put in a little bit of this and a little bit of that and it usually comes out ok. Feel free to change the recipe quantities or to add or subtract ingredients.

We grow our own nopales so we get them very fresh. I have always liked them as I grew up eating them at home. I have lived in San Jose' Calif since 1952 when I was two years old.

 

If you want more recipes for nopales I will gladly share some more.

 

Buen Provecho!  Alicia

Zacatecas and Jalisco Nopales

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Let me see how I can keep this on topic. . .



well might be better to send me any answers off list.



Quite possibly my great great grandmother Antonia Espinoza [dob: abt
1820] from Tepetongo, Zacatecas taught my great grandmother Antonia
Santa Maria [dob: 1862] from Tepetongo, Zacatecas who taught my
grandmother Virginia Diaz [dob: 1886] from Las Animas, Jalisco who then
taught my aunt Julia Puentes [dob: 1918] from Santa Paula, CA how to
make nopales and she this past weekend taught me [dob: 1953] from San
Jose, CA how to make them.



 Just yesterday was the first time I willingly ate
nopales and was pleasantly surprised that they were so so good. It
makes me wonder why I turned my nose up at them when I was a kid, then
again I hated everything that looked like a vegetable back then and I
love them all now.



Here's the recipe:



carefully harvest new nopales about the size of your hand



carefully dethorn them



wash them and cut in 1/2" cubes



boil them for 10 minutes and then throw the water out.



sautee garlic and onion and then add the boiled nopales



cook a little more salt and eat or add chile and eat or add eggs and
chile and eat, etc.



I just sauteed an onion in olive oil and added the nopales since I
didn't have any chile ready to go and i was to lazy to do this extra
step.



I really really enjoyed them.



so I said all that to say that if you have a recipe for nopales that
you know filtered down from either Jalisco, Zacatecas or Aguascalientes
please give me the history and the details.



joseph



ps: I'd really not like to turn this forum into a recipe exchange, but
if I get enough replies to indicate and interest I promise to make up a
file in the files area and include the recipes there. Make sure to give
your history as I don't want anything that is not from the area of our
research. So send my your answers off-list to my private email address:
makas@...




Native American Dental Identifiers

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I found a webpage that identifies some distinct dental characteristics
of the Native American. Its kind of unclear as to if this is only for
Native Americans found in the US or if it reaches into Mexico. There is
enough information to contact someone at Arizona State University to
find out more.

If anyone is interested contact me off list and I'll forward you the
material.


joseph

Some Articles by John Schmal

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Jonathan,

Thanks for sending the group these interesting articles.  My 
favorite was "Indigenous Mexico: A Lost Connection" and I recommend 
everyone read that one.  Yes, it's a trip for many of us to look in 
the mirror every morning, and the more one becomes engrossed in 
genealogy, the more one becomes aware of the physical 
characteristics the Spanish, Indians, and blacks left us.

Alice


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Walker" <walkerjona@y...> 
wrote:
> Here is the link, to some interesting articles, written by John P. 
Schmal and Donna S. Morales, about Mexican history:
> http://www.houstonculture.org/mexico/schmal.html
> 
> Thanks,
> Jonathan 
> 
> Experienced Hispanic Genealogist - More Info:
> http://members.pcu.net/Hispanic_Genealogy/
> or http://hispanicgenealogy.4t.com

Some Articles by John Schmal

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Here is the link, to some interesting
articles, written by John P. Schmal and Donna S. Morales, about Mexican
history:


 

Thanks,

Jonathan

 

Luz Montejano's website

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Ms. Montejano is a genealogy researcher, 
in Mexico.  The site has some genealogies from Chihuahua, Sonora, and other
areas of Mexico.  Also, there is a article about "Los Altos de
Jalisco."

 

Thanks,

Jonathan Walker
1140 North 230 West
Logan,
Utah 84341

 

1903 Sagrada Mitra

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With regards to the Sagrada Mitra:



1) "Are those records found in all the Diocesis or are they
specific to Guadalajara?"



I found this record for a primo hermano of my Abuelo. And it says that
on 15 June 1903 a dispensa for the Sagrada Mitra was administered. I
looked in the "Informacion Matrimonial" records for the Santa Maria de
los Angeles, Jalisco area where they were married and found nothing.
The scanned record says: Zacatecas, Zacatecas and I was going to order
this film and have a look since I don't see specific Sagrada Mitra
films for Zacatecas [Información matrimonial 1903 VAULT INTL Film:
245160]



2) Where can the Sagrada Mitra films for other diocesis be
found?



3) or are the records in Guadaljara but since they end in 1899
i'm just out of luck?



4) If one had a Dispensa after 1899 for the Guadalajara
Diocesis where would one look?



5) Are records available via direct order through the different
diocesis by mail for a price?



=======================



misc questions about the Sagrada Mitra:



6) So what is the procedure when that phrase "impedimente de
consanguinidad en cuarto grado" is found in a record? Are we to check
the "Infor. Mat" records first and then go to the Diocesis records?



7) why is it that sometimes in the "Informacion Matrimonial" films you
find records very similar to the Dispensa records like Steven gave us
examples of?



8) When we see these dispensa records in the "Informacion Matrimonial"
films can we expect to find duplicate copies in the Diocesis records?



9) When the phrase "No habiendo resultado impedimentos" is used does
that mean that the degree of relationship was resolved by doing enough
penance? And what was the limit of close relationship? It seems that
1st cousins was not because another primo hermano to my grandfather
married another prima hermano or his first cousin. And I see how they
got a church sanctioned marriage.



10) With regards to the Guadalajara records it appears as if there is a

FHL Lookup Service

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One of the little known services, of the Family
History Library, in Salt Lake. Is the copies by mail service:

 

This is what the Family Search, site says about
it:

 

"


face="Times New Roman"> Ordering Copies by Mail

To obtain photocopies of a few pages from a book or a few frames of microfilm
or microfiche, please
href="http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/frameset_rhelps.asp?Page=./research/type/Form.asp&ActiveTab=Type"
target=_top>use the appropriate Request for Photocopies form available on this
site. Copies cost U.S.$2.00 each, with a U.S.$4.00 minimum charge. Please
follow the instructions found on the form."


I am uploading copies, of the request
forms.

 

This is a way, to get copies of the original
records, without having to order the film or goto Salt Lake, to see the
book.

 

Thanks,

Jonathan Walker
1140 North 230 West
Logan,
Utah 84341

 

Attachment:
FReqIGI.pdf

Description: Adobe PDF document

Attachment:
FReqMicrofilm.pdf

Description: Adobe PDF document

Salt Lake Trip

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Dear Jonathan,

 

There is a record that I would love to see:

 

Lope Ruiz de Esparza

Spouse:  Francisca Gabay  Abt. 1594, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes

Batch: F868327

Sheet:  009

Source call:  1396258

 

I've been reading on message boards (I like to see what the non-serious researchers are up to) that Francisca Gabay's mother was a Moctezuma, and most likely a descendent of the Aztec royal family.  My curiosity is killing me.

 

Thanks,

 

Alice


Jonathan Walker <walkerjona@...> wrote:

I am going to be at the Family History Library, in Salt Lake City, on Saturday, May 8.

 

If anyone needs, a record lookup. Let me know, and I'll get it, for you.

 

Thanks,

Jonathan Walker
1140 North 230 West
Logan, Utah 84341

 

Experienced Hispanic Genealogist - More Info:
http://members.pcu.net/Hispanic_Genealogy/

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Land Redistribution in Los Altos Region of Jalisco

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Hello Alice,

I have a family stories to share regarding this subject as well as 
the Cristiada.

My paternal grandfather, Francisco Sánchez, was a Cristero.  The 
Cristero rebellion affected my father's family greatly.  When the 
government took action against the Cristeros, my grandfather had to 
move his entire family out of their homestead (San Nicolas de los 
Abundis) to Guadalajara.  They were forced to leave everything 
behind and the family suffered great hardship as a result.  They 
eventually moved back to San Nicolas and had to "start over". My 
grandfather felt betrayed by the Catholic Church.  When the 
government took action against the Cristeros my grandfather felt 
that the Church should've stepped in more and help the Cristeros.  
Instead, they stood idly by and did nothing to help those who risked 
their lives to defend the Church.

On the subject of land redistribution: my father purchased several 
acres of land in a coastal area in Jalisco called "El Tule" back in 
the sixties.  He made this purchase while he was residing here in 
the States. He never farmed or built anything on that land because 
it was impractical for him to do so from so far away.  His dream was 
to one day retire and live on that land.  Squatters have taken over 
the land and because of the Land Redistribution laws enacted after 
the Mexican Revolution there is nothing he can do about it.  He has 
lost everything!  He has hired one lawyer after another hoping the 
government will compensate him for his loss.  To date he has not 
received a dime.

That is the account of my family's story as told by my father.

Maria Cortez

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "alice_wissing" <alice_wissing@y...> 
wrote:
> Hello Friends,
> 
> I come from Carpinteria, CA where many people from the Los Altos 
> region of Jalisco settled (aside from having the "World's Safest 
> Beach" Carpinteria had the last segregated school in California).  
> Anyways, some of the old-timers claim that their families lost 
land 
> in the Revolution of 1910.  I'm a bit skeptical and am curious if 
> anyone has heard similar stories from their families.  Any 
feedback 
> is appreciated. 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Alice

Land Redistribution in Los Altos Region of Jalisco

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Steven,



How wonderful that you had the opportunity to do such extensive research on Mexican history.  I have a question for you.  I was raised by a family whose origins were from Los Altos.  They were one of the hacenderos families, and did not seemed touched by the Cristero movement - how could this happen?  When the property was transferred to this family's grandfather, he lost it in gambling, which forced the family to move to Guadalajara (1940's).  Recently, one of the brothers was able to repurchase the old ranch/hacienda and is now living there again.  How could a family go untouched with all this happening around them?  Or are there possibly family secrets that I am not previed to yet?

Land Redistribution in Los Altos Region of Jalisco

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Steven,

 

Now that was the most interesting thing I've read about Jalisco, ever.  I think you're right that the stories I've heard were about the Cristero Rebellion and not the 1910 Revolution.  I'm going to share your interesting message with others. 

 

Just this morning I found a chapter in the "Retonos de Espana" book that said the 1910 Revolution didn't affect the Altenos and I was thinking that these old-time Carpinterians were telling tall tales.  One man (a De Alba) talked of his family losing everything and that as a child he was sent to the U.S. and taken in by some people.  Because the man sharing the story seemed like an average guy, I always had a hard time believing any of it.

 

I even remember hearing stories that my grandfather and one of his brothers (Santiago & Benjamin Martin Del Campo) left Jalisco and didn't want to return because of the Revolution.  Their mother made a special trip to the U.S. to talk them into returning, but they wouldn't budge and she left crying.  None of it made sense until now.  

 

I feel so much smarter today!

 

Thanks,

 

Alice 

Pacorro73@... wrote:

Land Redistribution in Los Altos Region of Jalisco

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Hello Friends,

I come from Carpinteria, CA where many people from the Los Altos 
region of Jalisco settled (aside from having the "World's Safest 
Beach" Carpinteria had the last segregated school in California).  
Anyways, some of the old-timers claim that their families lost land 
in the Revolution of 1910.  I'm a bit skeptical and am curious if 
anyone has heard similar stories from their families.  Any feedback 
is appreciated. 

Thanks,

Alice

New file uploaded to ranchos

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Jonathan,

 

Thanks for your help.  Unfortunately, I was unable to find the information for "El Papalote" when looking at the previous census link (maybe my problems stemmed from it being in  Spanish).  Would you be so kind to do one for Jalisco as well?

 

Thanks again,

 



Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos
group.

  File        : /Mexico Census Info/INITER01.pdf
  Uploaded by : walkerjona <walkerjona@...>
  Description : Aguascalientes

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Mexico%20Census%20Info/INITER01.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

walkerjona <walkerjona@...>






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Census Info

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I have uploaded the census information, for
Aguascalientes, Jalisco, and Zacatecas. Into the Files section, of Ranchos,
under the filename "Mexico Census Info".

 

 

Jonathan Walker
1140 North 230 West
Logan,
Utah 84341

 

New file uploaded to ranchos

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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Mexico Census Info/INITER32.pdf 
  Uploaded by : walkerjona <walkerjona@...> 
  Description : Zacatecas 

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Mexico%20Census%20Info/INITER32.pdf 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

walkerjona <walkerjona@...>

New file uploaded to ranchos

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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Mexico Census Info/INITER14.pdf 
  Uploaded by : walkerjona <walkerjona@...> 
  Description : Jalisco 

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Mexico%20Census%20Info/INITER14.pdf 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

walkerjona <walkerjona@...>

New file uploaded to ranchos

Published by Nuestros_Ranchos –
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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Mexico Census Info/INITER01.pdf 
  Uploaded by : walkerjona <walkerjona@...> 
  Description : Aguascalientes 

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Mexico%20Census%20Info/INITER01.pdf 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

walkerjona <walkerjona@...>

SLC Record Look-up/Thanks Jonathan

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Jonathan,

thanks so much for making this generous offer. I just had Kitty Cortez
help me so wonderfully in her recent trip to SLC of which I am so grateful.

I kinda did have one small look up if you wouldn't mind, but put it on
the back burner if the list starts to overwhelm you with requests:


===================

ANTONIO AVILA/DOMINGA BARRIOS parents of JM husband of felipa de
Aniceto Puentes who are possibly 4th cousins somehow:


MA. SECUNDINA AVILA BARRIOS

01 JUL 1874 Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa Del Refugio, Zacatecas,
Mexico:

  	Father:  	ANTONIO AVILA 	Family
  	Mother:  	DOMINGA BARRIOS 	
	C605393  	1873 - 1875  	1094630
================================================
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