Anyone interested in the marriage record for Joseph Moreno de Ortega & Petrolina Ramirez?

Hello everyone,

I just found a record that has been eluding me for a very long time. If anyone is interested it is a very interesting read.

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Hola Angelina,

Thank you for posting this information. 

We are descended (2x) from the brother of Joseph Moreno de Ortega and sister of Petronila Ramírez: Juan Antonio Moreno de Ortega and Graciana Ramírez (married in 1715) through their two daughters: María Catarina (1741 cc Evaristo José Gómez), and Ana María (1738 cc Nicolás Antonio de Jaso). 

Sisters Graciana and Petronila Ramírez are granddaughters of Baltazar de los Reyes and Graciana de Ramos AKA de Mezquita, and great-granddaughters of early Lagos residents, Bartolomé de Mezquita and Luísa de Torres.

Thank you, again!

Best,

Travis

Nueva información sobre Juan de Pantoja

Buenos días.

Hace algunos años tuvimos una interesante conversación sobre Juan de Pantoja, padre de Bernardina de Mendoza y Pantoja y esposa de Gonzalo Núñez de Soto.

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Peter Boyd Bowman wrote in his book that Pedro Pantoja and Catalina Rodriguez are the parents of Juan Pantoja. He provided detail as to when Pedro Pantoja came over and when Juan Pantoja came over.   
 
What caused the confusion was that we have many Pedro Pantojas who have a son named Juan Pantoja.   
And Baltazar Mendoza, brother of a Pedro Pantoja, did have a son named Juan Pantoja who came to the “new world”.  

If we are to believe Peter Boyd Bowman’s research, then Pedro Pantoja, that is the father of  the Juan Pantoja that is married to Catalina Medina, arrived in what is now Mexico in 1522. Pedro Pantoja passed away in 1565. Pedro Pantoja traveled to Mexico with a government official, an assistant of Cortez. It is clear when this Pedro Pantoja arrived, and he is not the same person that arrived with a nephew.


A Balthazar Mendoza did come over to Mexico as we find his name in a document with a list of people in Mexico City. He is referred to as Don Balthazar Mendoza.

The Juan Pantoja

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10 enero 1577: Declaración de Gonzalo Hernández, conquistador de la Nueva España y vecino de la ciudad de México: conoce al dicho Juan de Pantoja más de cuarenta años y que sabe que se halló en la conquista de esta ciudad de México porque Diego Hernández Nieto conquistador se lo ha dicho a este testigo...l dicho Pantoja y su tío habían venido a la dicha conquista treinta días antes que se ganase la tierra y que así mismo sabe este testigo por habérselo dicho que el dicho Juan Pantoja se halló en las conquistas de Colima y Zacatula y otras partes y que en ellas sirvió muy bien a su majestad y que por razón de lo suso dicho cree que se le dio repartimiento de indios y que no sabe ni se acuerda cuáles y que sabe que el dicho Juan Pantoja es caballero e hijodalgo notorio porque por tal era de todos habido y el dicho su tío (Pedro Pantoja) que con él vino...

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While looking for information on Domingo Medina, I overlooked what could be an important clue on my search for information on “Munguia” ancestors. Here is the entry where I focused on Domingo Medina, father-in-law of Juan Pantoja (son of Baltazar Mendoza y Pantoja and Leonor de la Cerda Ulloa),

Nº 3,R.2. 1556-1557.
El fiscal contra Domingo de Medina y Pedro de Monguía, alcalde ordinario y
procurador del pueblo de Guayangareo e Nº 3,R.2. 1556-1557.
El fiscal contra Domingo de Medina y Pedro de Monguía, alcalde ordinario y
procurador del pueblo de Guayangareo en la jurisdicción de Michoacán, sobre haber
injuriado al alcalde mayor de dicha ciudad. 1 pieza

I should have paid more attention to “Pedro de Monguía, alcalde ordinario y procurador del pueblo de Guayangareo en la jurisdicción de Michoacán,”

Now to look for information on this Pedro de Monguia (Munguia), alcalde ordinario.

Rick A. Ricci

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Through Diego de Velasco y Temiño’s descent from “Garcia Gomez de Carillo, Señor de Ormasa y Mazuelo and Elvira Alvarez de Osorio” you will find that Juan Pantoja, son of Baltazar Mendoza and Leonor de la Cerda and husband of Catalina Medina, is a distant relative. Juan Pantoja has ancestors that are closely related to both Garcia Gómez de Carillo de Ormasa y Mazuelo and his wife Elvira Alvarez de Osorio.

Diego de Velasco y Temiño’s descent from “Garcia Gomez de Carillo.Señor de Ormasa y Mazuelo Elvira Alvarez de Osorio” can be found here:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/23328?page=1

Through Juan Pantoja’s “Álvarez Osorio” ancestry he is also related to Hernando Padilla Dávila , “Villaseñor” and to the López Peralta (Coria Peralta).
Rick A. Ricci

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In my research, I came across many instances where genealogists were taking the surname Soto to be short for Sotomayor. While this is true in many cases, it is not true in all cases. In some families, the “Soto” surname was originally “Scotto” in Genoa. The surname Scotto was changed to Soto when they arrived in Andalucia. The surname Scotto was originally another surname which I write about in my book.

Rick A. Ricci

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Sorting out the family entanglements of the Pantoja family tree is not an easy task. Although secondary sources had placed the Captain / Lt. Juan Pantoja as a first cousin of our Juan Pantoja y Mendosa, a primary source points to the person that killed him as being the first cousin. They were short of food so it was recorded that the surviving crew ate their dead. Because of the similar name of Juan Pantoja, I am assuming that genealogists had assumed that the captain was the first cousin. They could have all been first cousins, but I doubt it as Captain Juan Pantoja is not identified as being killed by his first cousin, and the killer is identified as being the brother of a cousin of Juan Pantoja y Mendoza.

Rick A. Ricci

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 The confusion comes about because there were numerous “Juan Pantoja” that are considered Conquistadores. There are at least four first cousin Juan Pantojas that are considered conquistadors in the “new world”. Baltazar Mendoza, Pedro Pantoja and a sister of theirs all had sons that are named “Juan Pantoja” making them first cousins. These first cousins are named after their paternal grandfather “Juan Pantoja”. Pedro Pantoja arrived in the “new world” with his nephew Juan Pantoja (son of Balthazar Mendoza and Leonor Ulloa De la Cerda). A second Juan Pantoja is a  son of Pedro and a third Juan pantoja is son of Baltazar’s sister and he was a Ship Captain /sailor.who was murdered by a companion while on exploration of North America. The fourth Juan Pantoja was a first cousin once removed that arrived in 1519 to Cuba, and 1522 to Mexico City.

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Dear Rick,

Thanks to your findings on the Ulloa side now we know that Juan de Pantoja and Pedro de Alvarado were related and I wanted to thank you for all the support and amazing discoveries that you have been sharing with us. (If you posted this before, please forgive me)

Fernán Gutiérrez de Valverde = Mafalda de la Cerda

1.1 María Gutiérrez de Valverde = Gonzalo Porcallo Morán
1.1.1 María Morán de la Cerda = Lorenzo de Ulloa y Carvajal.
1.1.1.1 Leonor Ulloa de la Cerda = Baltasar de Mendoza y Pantoja.
1.1.1.1.1 Juan de Pantoja y Mendoza = Catalina de Medina.

1.2. Violante Gutiérrez de Valverde = Gutierre González de Trejo.
1.2.1 Isabel Gutiérrez de Trejo = Gonzalo de Contreras y Carvajal.
1.2.1.1 Leonor de Contreras y Gutiérrez de Trejo = Gómez de Alvarado y Mexía de Sandoval.
1.2.1.1.1 Pedro de Alvarado y Contreras.

Basically the conquistadores were third cousins.

Is this also ok with the data you have?

Best,

Erik R.

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Dear Erik,

What you have posted is in line with my information. Thanks to you Erik for finding the key primary sources that proved that Juan Pantoja was Pedro Pantoja’s nephew. Your key information led us to the right branch of the Pantoja family, and to my research on the de la Cerda Ulloa family.

Thank you Eric for your kind words. As you know, I have done extensive research on the Pantoja family in Mexico, the America’s and Spain as I looked to connect this line to the Pantojas in Spain. It was your two important puzzle pieces (primary sources) that brought everything together. It wasn’t until you provided the two key missing pieces, that I was able to figure out how all of these numerous Juan Pantojas were related to each other. It was a major surprise to find out that they were all so closely related to each other.

Much of my different areas of research keep overlapping. Like you, lots of my finds are when I am looking for something else. One of the books that I have

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Erik,
In the first section you state 1.1.1 María Morán de la Cerda married to Lorenzo de Ulloa y Carvajal. According to Viejos Linajes de Cáceres, 1971, by Jose Miguel Lodo de Mayoralgo, page 320 her name is Beatriz Morán. Also, her name is “Beatriz” in Hidalguia; La Revista de Genealogía, Nobleza y Arms (Revista Hidalguia), 1984. No. 184-185, p. 553.
In the second section you state 1.2.1 Isabel Gutiérrez de Trejo (d/ Violante Gutiérrez de Valverde and Gutierre González de Trejo) – However, According to Boletín de la Real Academia de la Historia, 1935, Vol. 106, p. 526:
1.2.1 Isabel Gutiérrez de Trejo is the daughter of Alfonso de Cháves and Leonor López de Trejo y Ulloa.
They still appear to be 3rd cousins but on another line. Please let me know if I got something wrong.
Damien

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Damien, I know that your questions were for Erik, but if you read my post in this thread on this lineage, you will see that I list Lorenzo Ulloa’s wife as Beatriz Moran. Here is the post: King Henry II England to Bernardina Mendoza Submitted by R.A.Ricci on Wed, 2020-09-23 00:56. Bernardina Mendoza descends from King Henry II of England and Queen Eleanore of Aquitane 1)Henry II King of England and Eleanor of Aquitane Queen of England 2 Eleonore de Inglaterra, princesa de inglaterra and Alfonso VIII rey de Castilla 3 Berenguela de Castilla and Alfonso IX rey de Leon 4 San Fernando III rey de Castilla and Beatriz de Suavia ( Elizabeth Hohenstaufen) 5 Alfonso X Fernandez and Yolanda Aragon 6 Fernando infante de Castilla and Blanca de Francia Capet 7 Alfonso de la Cerda and Mahalda de Brienne 8 Luis de la Cerda, infante de Castilla and Leonor Alfonso de Guzman 9Juan de la Cerda and Sol Martinez 10 Martin Gonzalez de Cerda and Violante Alvarez Pereira 11 Mahalda de la Cerda y Fernan

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Rick,
Thanks for the clarification. I just wanted to reconcile the two.

On another note, do you have a source that states Juana Núñez de Soto who married Diego Ochoa Garibay is the daughter of Gonzalo Núñez de Soto and Bernardina de Mendoza y Pantoja? Or one that show Juana as the sister of Catalina de Mendoza wife of Baltazar de la Peña y Medina?

González-Leal, Mariano, Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia, multiple volume mentions Juana Núñez (de Soto) who married Diego Ochoa Garibay (Tomo VI, Vol. 2, p. 512), but I could not find where it mentions her parents.

Damien

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Dear Damien,

The questions that you are asking is what started the discussions on the Pantoja lineage on nuestrosranchos.

What happened was that someone mentioned that Juana Nuñez de Soto descended from nobility. I stated that I didn’t even know who her parents were. I didn’t even know that the Soto was short for Sotomayor. So it was explained to me that it was known that she descended from Juan Pantoja and who her parents were. Then I researched the supposed maternal great grandparents and found that information to be wrong as those great grandparents were close to her age.

Next what happened is that I attempted to construct the Ancestry of the Juan Pantoja that was said to be her ancestor. I compiled a tremendous amount of information on the Pantoja family, but I had not seen any primary source documents regarding the claims made on Bernardina’s parents, or any primary sources documents on her supposed ancestors in Mexico. I mistakenly believed what they told me that Pedro

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Rick,
Thanks, I’m new to the group and I’ve been putting the pieces together of the posts related to this family.

Then there is proof that Juana Núñez de Sotomayor wife of Diego Ochoa Garibay is the daughter of Bernardina de Mendoza Pantoja? Also, that Juan Pantoja de Mendoza who married Catalina de Medina is the son of Baltazar Mendoza Pantoja & Leonor Ulloa de la Cerda?

From what I'm reading it is a yes to both; if so then I want to write an article for the New Mexico Genealogical Society, giving you and Erik credit for the finds. As, this impacts New Mexico descendants of Diego de Padilla and his wife Maria Vásquez y Baca.

Regards,

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Rick,
Do you have a source record stating Juana Núñez de Soto(mayor), wife of Diego Ochoa Garibay is the daughter of Gonzalo Núñez de Soto(mayor)and Bernardina de Mendoza y Pantoja. I'll be glad to pay for it if you accept Paypal.

I See that Catalina de Mendoza is clearly identified as a daughter in the source records that were shared by you and Erik.

Also, am interested in purchasing your book if it is for sale.
Damien

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Good afternoon,
I would like to know more about Captain Diego Ochoa Garibay y Solis and his son Diego Ochoa Garibay y Nuñez de Soto, if you have any information I would appreciate it.
I found this information and maybe you are interested.
House of Juana Nunez (Juana Nunez de Soto or Sotomayor; she is widow, of Capitan Diego Ochoa Garibay). His son - Diego Ochoa, cleric of the first tonsure (subdiacano). A maiden daughter, Dona Maria de Solis. A niece, Beatriz de Garibay. His servants - three black slaves named Maria; a mulatto, Domingo; an Indian, Mariana; and a mulatto, Diego.[1] ↑ Genealogical journal, Volumes 1-3, SHHAR, 1994 - University of Texas. Page 123.
I don't know if they would have two children with the name of Diego, and one is a priest and the other is my ancestor.

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Juan Pantoja descends from King Henry II of England and Queen Eleanore of Aquitane 1)Henry II King of England and Eleanor of Aquitane Queen of England 2 Eleonore de Inglaterra, princesa de inglaterra and Alfonso VIII rey de Castilla 3 Berenguela de Castilla and Alfonso IX rey de Leon 4 San Fernando III rey de Castilla and Beatriz de Suavia ( Elizabeth Hohenstaufen) 5 Alfonso X Fernandez and Yolanda Aragon 6 Fernando infante de Castilla and Blanca de Francia Capet 7 Alfonso de la Cerda and Mahalda de Brienne 8 Luis de la Cerda, infante de Castilla and Leonor Alfonso de Guzman 9Juan de la Cerda and Sol Martinez 10 Martin Gonzalez de Cerda and Violante Alvarez Pereira 11 Mahalda de la Cerda y Fernan Gutierrez de Valverde 12 Mari Gutierrez de Valverde y de la Cerda and Gonzalo Porcallo De Morán 13 Beatriz Moran and Lorenzo Ulloa 14 Leonor Ulloa De la Cerda and Balthazar Mendoza Pantoja 15 Juan Pantoja Mendoza, Rick A. Ricci

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Dear Erik, Gracias a ti Erik pudimos aclarar la ascendencia de Bernardina Mendoza Pantoja. Esta línea incluye Ulloa y explica porque ay descendientes con el apellido Ulloa. Y también enseña descendencia de los infante (principes) de la Cerda. El Balthazar Mendoza Pantoja que mencionas es el padre de el Juan Pantoja que está casado con Catalina Medina. The Pantoja lineage is mainly made up of a mixture of Ancient Arabic, Jewish, Castilian and Aragonese nobility with some Royal lines from Castilla, León, France and England. I can trace the lineage to King Henry II and Eleanore of Aquitane. The Arabic and Jewish lines the have been Catholic for at least a couple of centuries by 1400 so they are looked upon as “old Christians” with a knowledge of these ancient roots. 2) Juan Pantoja and Elvira Alvarez Mendoza ( daughter of Alfonso Duran Mendoza and Aldonza Vasquez de Sandoval) 3) Balthazar Mendoza Panto and Leonor Ulloa De la Cerda [Balthazar Mendoza’s brother, Pedro Pantoja, was born

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Hi Rick,
I’m a little confused about the maternal grandparents of Juana Núñez de Soto(mayor) wife of Diego Ochoa Garibay. Your have her parents Bernardina Hurtado de Mendoza Pantoja (1533-1614) and Gonzalo Núñez de Sotomayor.
In one post you have Bernardina Hurtado de Mendoza Pantoja’s (1533-1614) parents as Catalina Pantoja Pena Ulloa (born about 1515) and Alonso De la Cueva Mendoza (Submitted by R.A.Ricci (not verified) on Thu, 2017-03-30 19:09).
In another post you have Bernardina Hurtado de Mendoza Pantoja’s (1533-1614) parents as Catalina de Medina & Juan Pantoja de Mendoza. I assume that the later is a correction because it was posted, May 3, 2021, https://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/24761?page=1
So, the document provided by Erik ( MERITS: Sebastián de Lapeña y Mendoza, Archivo General de Indias, 1664, INDIFFERENT, 120, N.74, Image 7), shows Bernardina’s ancestry to Catalina de Medina & Juan Pantoja de Mendoza? If not what is that source that shows her parents?
Regards

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Hello Damien,

The correct information on Bernardina Hurtado de Mendoza Pantoja’s (1533-1614) parents comes from documents shared by Erik. All the work that I had previously done on the Pantoja family was not a waste of time as I discovered a tremendous amount of information on the Pantoja ancestry, and many wonderful stories.

There were many “Juan Pantoja” first, second, and third cousins that lived about the same time and that is why there was much confusion as to which Juan Pantoja is Catalina de Medina’s husband, Juan Pantoja de Mendoza was the nephew of Pedro Pantoja, and not Pedro’s son.

Rick A. Ricci

PS I took a look at your ancestry and found that you share some New Mexico” ancestral lines with Raiders Quarterback Jim Plunkett. Comedian/actor John A. Leguziamo also descends from a Mendoza branch of the family that went to Colombia.

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Red Flags

1) The Juan Pantoja that is the son of Gonzalo Pantoja and Juana Merlo is not listed in the copies of his Parent’s wills. Yet Juan Pantoja states in his will that he wants to be buried next to his mother Juana Merlo's grave. This will is not a forgery.

2) Except for Juan Pantojas, Many of The family wills are not originals, but are copies written in the 1700's, when people were fighting over inheritances from over two centuries before. But in at least one of the wills there are major errors in the family tree. This will is a fake.

3) Gonzalo Pantoja is said to have a cousin with the same name. Is this cousin the Gonzalo Pantoja that married Juana Merlo Ulloa and is the great aunt of the Juana Merlo Toledo?

4) the Gonzalo Pantoja that is married to Juana Merlo Ulloa is the one that has sons named Juan Pantoja and Pedro Pantoja.

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Un ancestro de Juan Pantoja no podia resistir la idea de que le pisasen después de se muerte. El obtuvo del Rey permiso de ser enterrado en alto en la catedral de Toledo.

Rick A. Ricci

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Gracias a ti Rick por esta información que es magnífica.

En la Real Chancillería de Granada hay un pleito de hidalguía que concluyó favorablemente en 1505 para Gonzalo Díaz (hijo de Alonso Díaz y de Marina Sánchez), vecino de Mérida en Badajoz y cuyos antepasados eran de Medellín donde también tenía familia. En dicho pleito se menciona que Gonzalo era pariente de Juana de Godoy, viuda de Pedro Pantoja el cual había sido exiliado por la condesa de Medellín en el contexto de la guerra entre Portugal y Castilla (La de 1475-1479?). Imagino que la condesa a la que hace referencia fue Inés de Ribera y Mendoza, esposa de Juan Portocarrero Pacheco.

No sé si este Pedro Pantoja sea el mismo que aparece en los siguientes documentos pero es posible, de ser el siguiente una generación posterior parece que los pleitos entre los Pantoja y los condes de Medellín duraron algo de tiempo: "Comisión al bachiller Alonso Téllez para que resuelva la demanda de Pedro de Pantoja, vecino de la villa de

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Hola Erik,

Aquí te mando otro documento Que nombra a Juan Pantoja y Elvira Álvarez Mendoza:

Sobrecarta de una sentencia confirmando a Juan Pantoja y a su mujer Elvira Alvarez en la posesión de la heredad llamada 'Guijo de Ayuso' en término de Trujillo, que quiere comprarles Fernando de Vargas.-Consejo.

http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/1604004?nm

Y algo sobre Dom8ngo Medina

Nº 3,R.2. 1556-1557.
El fiscal contra Domingo de Medina y Pedro de Monguía, alcalde ordinario y procurador del pueblo de Guayangareo en la jurisdicción de Michoacán, sobre haber injuriado al alcalde mayor de dicha ciudad. 1 pieza.

Un abrazo,
Rick

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Hola Eric,

Creo que tienes razón cuando escribes:

“podría ser que quien hizo la paleografía entendió Pedro vez de D° o J° o algún otro?”.

Lo que si sabemos es que Juan Pantoja no Es hijo de Gonzalo Pantoja y Elvira Portocarrero. Gonzalo Pantoja Portocarrero Y Juana Merlo Toledo tambien no son padres de los hermanos Juan Pantoja, Pedro Pantoja, y Gonzalo Pantoja. Estos tres hermanos son Hijos de Gonzalo Pantoja y Juana Merlo Ulloa. El Gonzalo Pantoja que esta casado con Juana Merlo Ulloa Es primo del señor de Mocejon. En 1700’s cuando organizaron muchas de las actas que se habían juntado por un pleito sobre una herencia hicieron muchos errores en leer y copiar los documentos.

En la familia cercana hubo tres “Gonzalo Pantoja Portocarrero” y dos de ellos se casaron con Juana Merlo. Una Juana era Juana Merlo Ulloa y la otra era Juana Merlo Toledo, la primera tía abuela de la segunda. La segunda Juana Merlo (Merlo Toledo) era nieta del hermano de la primera Juana Merlo

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Dear Erik,

I had set aside my Pantoja research and directed my attention to other projects in the past couple of years. Your post on Bernardina’s parents and grandparents woke Up this area of research for me. I went back and pulled out my records of the ancestors of this line and looked a little deeper at my resources. I was able to discover that an ancestor of the Pantojas that genealogists had claimed was the sister of a Cardenal Archbishop of Toledo was actually his illegitimate daughter. I have also been able to trace this line all the way back to Conde Fernan Gonzalez over a thousand years ago. I was also able to connect an ancestral line of Elvira Alvarez Mendoza to her husband, Juan de Pantoja, so they are distant cousins twice through their Pantoja ancestry. The ancestral line they share is made up of eight families that intermarried over and over again over many centuries during the Muslim presence in the Iberian peninsula. These Toledan families, “linajes mozárabes de

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Estimado Eric,

Te pido un gran favor, me puedes decir que dice el testamento de Juan Pantoja, el cual testó en Medellín el 14 de Noviembre de 1482, o por lo menos decirme que dice sobre su familia.

Gracias,
Rick A. Ricci

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Estimado Rick,

Con mucho gusto. Lo reviso y extraigo esa información. Me llama la atención que este Juan de Pantoja, sobrino de Pedro de Pantoja (Página 12) y esposo de Catalina de Medina sea el mismo que fue Conquistador en Colima, así lo dicen en las páginas 2 y 4. La razón por la cual me llama la atención es que supuestamente fue hijo de Pedro de Pantoja y de Catalina Rodríguez como alguna vez lo comentamos pero podría ser que quien hizo la paleografía entendió Pedro vez de D° o J° o algún otro?

También cabría la posibilidad que Catalina Rodríguez fuera de los Rodríguez de Ulloa también de Medellín, emparentados más atrás con los Ulloa Carvajal?

Este documento también parece de interés "Seguro a favor de Pedro de Pantoja y de Baltasar de Mendoza, vecinos de Cáceres; de Alfonso Durán, vecino de Medellín y de Alvaro de Mendoza, que se recelan del conde de Medellín. 1488" Sobretodo por la referencia al Conde Rodrigo Portocarrero Monroy cuya conexión con los Pantoja ya la tenías

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Elvira Alvarez Mendoza’s ancestors brings us back to the Rodriguez Osorio Villalobos ancestors of the Reynoso family.

Another daughter of Alfónso Durán Mendoza and Cecilia Aldonza Vázquez de Sandoval by the name of Maria Sandoval married Alonso Monroy, a cousin of Gonzalo Pantoja Portocarrero.

Saludos,
Rick A. Ricci

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I am not having any luck finding the wife of Domingo de Medina. I did find a son named “ Alejo Enríquez de Medina,”.
I found this online : https://valentincasco.blogspot.com/2016/11/p-margin-bottom-0.html

“DOMINGO DE MEDINA

Valentín Casco y Fernández
Investigador

Natural de Guareña, pasó a México en 1524 y visitó de nuevo España en 1526, enviado por Hernán Cortés a ver a Su Magestad.

Veamos lo que él mismo nos cuenta, muchos años después:

“Que es vecino de Mechoacán y natural de Garuena (Guareña), tierra de Medellín, e hijo legítimo de Diego González Serrano e de Ana Hernández Zambrana; e que a veynte y quatro años que pasó a esta Nueva Spaña, y que fué con el Marqués en servicio de Su Magestad a Guacaquaico y Honduras, por lo qual le fué encomendado la mytad del pueblo de Taucitaro, de que al presente se sirve, ques muy pobre y de menos provecho, y después con Vuestra Señoría Ilustrísima en la húltima pacificación de la Nueva Galizia (año 1541); y ques casado y tiene hijos e

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5)Juan Pantoja and Elvira Alvarez Mendoza (daughter of Alfónso Durán Mendoza y de Cecilia Aldonza Vázquez de Sandoval.)
6)
7.) Juan Pantoja and Catalina Medina (daughter of Domingo Medina)
8.) Bernardina Mendoza Pantoja Ulloa (born about 1533) and Gonzalo Nuñez de Sotomayor
9). Juana Nuñez de Sotomayor( born about 1555) and Diego Ochoa de Garibay
10). Francisca Ochoa Soto. (born about1593) and married on 27/Nov/1613 to Juan de la Mora y Mendoza

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Great find Erik,

The information of Alfón Durán y de Aldonza Vázquez de Sandoval leads us to Alfónso Durán Mendoza and Cecilia Aldonza Vázquez de Sandoval.

Pedro Gonzalez de Mendoza and Aldonza Lopez de Ayala are the parents of Gonzalo Duran de Mendoza. This Gonzalo and Isabel Sanchez de Badajoz are the parents of Alfonso Duran Mendoza.

Pedro Gonzalez de Mendoza and Aldonza Lopez de Ayala‘S ancestries are well documented.

Cecilia Aldonza Vázquez de Sandoval is the daughter of Pedro Ruiz de Sandoval

This information on the ancestry of Alfonso Duran Mendoza was from Jose Luis Ordonez’s research.

Elvira Álvarez de Mendoza Gets the “Elvira Alvarez” name from Gonzalo de Duran’s Maternal grandmother, “Elvira Alvarez”.
This maternal grandmother of Gonzalo De Duran Mendoza also was named after her grandmother “ Elvira Alvarez Osorio”

Conquistador Domingo Medina is the son of Diego González Serrano and Ana Hernández Zambrano. Domingo Medina is from Guareña, Badajoz, Estremadura.

This

Birth registration term "enero proxima pasado"

Hello

I have seen the term "enero proxima pasado" on a birth registration. Date of registration is February in 1911, date of birth is 29 January. 

AI says the term indicates that the birth was in January of the year before (that would be in 1910). However, I am not sure AI is correct. Anyone else ever interpret this term/phrase?

The birth registration itself is from Guanajuato which is off-topic, but the issue is one that could show up in records from Jalisco and Zacatecas - which share a border with Guanajuato - and Aguascalientes. (One branch of the family in question - Araiza - may have come originally from Jalisco.) 

Best regards

Denise Fastrup

Comments

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la familia Araiza tiene sus inicios debidamente documentados  en CDMX, posteriormente se traslada a Zacatecas y Aguascalientes y de allí se diversifica a otras regiones; termino mi investigación en el norte de Guanajuato.

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Hello Austin

Thank you for your quick response. I have a birth record for a baby born in 1910 (with the phrase enero proximo pasado) and a death record for a girl who died in May1911 at age 1 yr 1 month. Trying to see if could be the same individual. Bit of a mystery! Parents names are the same and the ages too.

Thanks again!

Denise

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Hello Denise,

The expression "próximo pasado" is used to refer to the immediately preceding day, week, month, or year. In your example the birth date would be 29 Jan 1911.

Un cordial saludo.

Austin Pérez

Phrase in death record

Has anyone seen this phrase in a death record before: deja libre de matrimonio a (persons name). I'm curious to why it doesn't say, viudo or fue casado, etc... Does this mean this couple was not married?

Comments

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Not necessarily. It was probably just a legal formality, in case the spouse wanted to remarry. Coincidentally, I was just transcribing a marriage investigation that got snagged, because the husband was from Spain, and had been married previously, and he needed to provide proof that he was "libre de matrimonio," and had unfortunately lost a signed affidavit from his home parish, confirming his first wife's death. 

Have you found the couple's marriage record? Another way to see whether they were legitimately married is to look at the baptism/birth records, and see if it says the child was legitimate.

Saludos!

Manny Díez Hermosillo

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Thank you Manny. The husband was married prior (I found that marriage record), but I have not found his first wife's death record just yet, nor his second marriage record. I pinned both dates (death and second marriage) down to a three year span. I found his children with his second wife listed as legitimate as the same with his first wife. I will keep searching for the missing records.

Cynthia

Genealogía de la expansión de las familias troncales que poblaron las orillas orientales y Norte de Los Altos. Segunda mitad d

Genealogía de la expansión de las familias troncales que poblaron las orillas orientales y Norte de Los Altos. Segunda mitad del siglo XVI.

Se desprendían desde Guadalajara hacia Teocaltiche., de ahí hacia Jalostotitlan, Lagos, San Miguel el Alto, San Juan de los Lagos, Mirandilla, Valle de Guadalupe, Tepatitlán y Guadalajara de nuevo.

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It is inaccurate to say that some of these families were Italians only because they came from Genoa, not Italy. The country that we know as “Italy” did not exist in the 1500’s.

I have done a tremendous amount of research looking for Carlo Lomelin’s ancestry. I don’t know anyone that has investigated this family as much as I have. Steven Francisco Hernandez has provided valuable puzzle pieces that support my research on Carlo Lomelin’s ancestors. Through private conversations, I have also provided Steven with information about a treasure trove of Lomelin documents that I have found proving the Genoese ancestors. I asked Steven to not disclose all of the information that I had shared with him until I published my book.

Steven is also correct that Guido Lavezzari comes from another Genoese family as primary source records also identify his paternal ancestors as Genoese. Steven is also correct that the Espinoza surname was originally Spinola and that they had its origins in Genoa

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Mr. Ricci,

Thank you for the incredible wealth of information. I was considering shelving my research for a few months, until I pushed myself to research a bit more, few minutes here and there. I came across this golden nugget and I am going to push on. Thank you. I stem from Lomeli/Lomelin/Lomellini. Although I am stuck on Onofre Lomelin ( -1759) married to Angela Iniguez/Yniguez. They married on or about 2/13/1754...
Looking forward to buying your book! Namaste.

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Hello Laura,

Onofre Lomelin Nuñez married Angela de Jesus Yniguez on 13/Feb/1754 in Tepatitlan, Jalisco.   Onofre Lomelin is originally from the “puesto de Palmarejo”.  Angela de Jesus is the daughter of Blas Yniguez and Margarita Gonzales.  Onofre’s father is not named in the marriage record, but that doesn’t mean that it is a dead end.  The marriage record of one of my wife’s Lomeli ancestror’s father wasn’t named in the marriage record, but by digging deeper I was able to discover his name and ancestry.  

Maria Nuñez is the daughter of Josepha Trejo.  I believe that that Maria Nuñez’s father is Juan Nunez.    Juan Nunez and Josefa Trejo had children born in Cuquio Jalisco.

Marriage record : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-KMSZ-JM?lang=en      Page 181


Juan Nuñez Josepha Trejo married on 16/Jan/1713 in Cuquío, Jalisco

Juan is the son of Andres Nuñez and Josepha Ximenez

Maria Josefa is the daughter of Salvador de Trejo and Michaela Geronima

Good luck in your research,

Rick A

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Estimado señor Vicente de San Miguel

Dándole por mi parte la bienvenida a este foro no puedo dejar pasar la ocasión para informarle que si la persona a que usted se refiere llamada Steven es nuestro primo (de todos los alteños) Steven Francisco Hernández, he de decirle que es un investigador serio como el que más, riguroso, generoso y exhaustivo en sus publicaciones y que puede usted tomar preferentemente cualquier publicación que él firme frente a la de prácticamente cualquier otro autor.

Por lo demás, sobre los apellidos que usted enlista podrá usted con sus propios ojos recorrer el copioso número de investigaciones que aquí están publicadas y que se han perfeccionado con la colaboración de valiosos y generosos investigadores.

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Hola a todos:

Sería recomendable leer algo sobre la historia de la península ibérica durante el siglo XV para darse cuenta de que los reyes de Castilla tuvieron tratos comerciales con los genoveses con motivo de la construcción de barcos genoveses que eran vendidos a los castellanos, así como de otras mercancías (brocados, tafetanes, zapatos de lujo).

También se dio la circunstancia de que los reyes dejaron de acudir a los prestamistas judíos y comenzaron a recurrir a los préstamos de los patricios genoveses, esto motivó que ramas de las casas patricias de Génova se establecieran posteriormente en Sevilla, en donde incluso existe la calle de los Genoveses, los recién llegados casaron con mujeres castellanas y realizaron empresas mercantiles muy variadas. Dentro de las familias que realizaron préstamos se encuentra la familia Centurión que luego recibió títulos nobiliarios en compensación por las deudas, por ejemplo el Señorío de Monesterio y el condado de Estepa.

Hay muchos

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Pregunta: donde puedo consultar el tema (Ordenanzas de colonización de 1573) para el tema familia de la Garza.
Gracias
Humberto Pro
frio@prodigy.net.mx

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Hola Vale ,como esta? ojala que bien. Mi antepasado era Carlos Lomellini y era de genoa,Italia como era moro ? > To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org> From: castrosivicente@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:41:17 -0700> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Genealogía de la expansión de las familias troncales que poblaron las orillas orientales y Norte de Los Altos. Segunda mitad del> > > Genealogía de la expansión de las familias troncales que poblaron las orillas orientales y Norte de Los Altos. Segunda mitad del siglo XVI.> > Se desprendían desde Guadalajara hacia Teocaltiche., de ahí hacia Jalostotitlan, Lagos, San Miguel el Alto, San Juan de los Lagos, Mirandilla, Valle de Guadalupe, Tepatitlán y Guadalajara de nuevo.> > De estas mismas ramas, hubo desplazamientos hacia León (familia Ulloa y Parada Aguilar), Silao, Celaya e Irapuato (familia Martín), Gto.> De Jalostotitlán, salió la familia Garza para fundar la ciudad de Monterrey, NL.> (Ordenanzas de colonización de 1573).> >

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Qualcuno ha detto., Lomelín (cognome di Steven) arribato di Genova a Madrid.
Ma, Lomellini e quallcosa diverso di Lomelín. E vero, Lomellini (cognome dil suo nonno) si posta a Carmagnola, viccino a Torino reggione di Piamonte.

Alguien ha dicho Lomelín (apellido de Steven)., llegó de Génova a Madrid.
Pero Lomellini es algo distinto a Lomelín. Es cierto, Lomellini se ubica en la ciudad de Carmagnola cerca de Turín Norte de Italia, donde hasta hay un palacio de una familia de ese apellido. A menudo los inmigrantes o las autoridades del país de destino, escribían mal algunos datos, por ignorancia o premura del tiempo.
La reina Isabel tuvo un confesor de apellido Lomellini, que también se cita en la genealogía de algunos zacatecanos. Entre 1532 y 1560 había en Perú alrededor de 50 italianos, provenientes de Liguria.
Saludos. Viaje a la tierra de sus antepasados si no la conoce aún. No se va arrepentir. Yo viví un tiempo en Monteccattini, entre Florencia y Pisa. Hay mucho que ver. Vicente

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Desafortunadamente, el libro del Maestro Jose Antonio Gutierrez Gutierrez, Sociedad y conflicto en los Altos de Jalisco (Los Altos de Jalisco). 1989. Colección Regiones. CONACULTA está plagado de errores, yo tengo en mi poder los últimos tres ejemplares antes de que la editorial los destruyera. Comenzando desde sus primeras páginas con la extension territorial de los municipios de los Altos, hasta lo de algunas familias.
El amigo de CONACULTA que me consiguió esos libros que ya no estaban en catálogo, me informó que la editorial se negó a realizar una segunda edicion, debido a los problemas que les generó la cantidad de errores que contiene el libro.
Desde mi particular punto de vista, el principal problema de los libros del Dr. Gutierrez es su acentuado localismo, para él Jalos es practicamente el centro del universo, el Edén de donde partieron Adán y Eva a poblar el mundo, lo cual definitivamente no es cierto. Tengo el gusto de conocer al Dr. Gutierrez, al igual que otros

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Una disculpa por entrar en esta discusión ya que también yo soy de Jalostotitlán. El Dr. José Antonio Gutiérrez Gutiérrez incluye un mapa y un pequeño texto en la página 144 de su libro "Los Altos de Jalisco" (Conaculta, 1991) y dice este texto a la letra "incluso de Jalostotitlán salió la familia Garza para fundar Monterrey" y su fuente que es incompleta sólo dice: "Tomado de: Sociedad y Conflicto en los Altos de Jalisco, p. 87. El Dr. José Antonio se está refiriendo al libro "El Movimiento Cristero: Sociedad y Conflicto en los Altos de Jalisco" de José Díaz Estrella, Román Rodríguez Cruz y Andrés Fábregas escrito en 1979, es decir 12 años antes de que lo citara el Dr. José Antonio Gutiérrez. Es de lamentar que un estudioso como el Dr. Gutiérrez no cite bien, sino sólo partes del nombre del libro. Es más en su bibliografía no nombra a los tres autores del libro de 1979, José Díaz Estrella, Román Rodríguez Cruz y Andrés Fábregas. Sé que alguno de ellos se ha quejado amargamente porque

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Desafortunadamente, el libro del Maestro Jose Antonio Gutierrez Gutierrez, Sociedad y conflicto en los Altos de Jalisco (Los Altos de Jalisco). 1989. Colección Regiones. CONACULTA está plagado de errores, yo tengo en mi poder los últimos tres ejemplares antes de que la editorial los destruyera. Comenzando desde sus primeras páginas con la extension territorial de los municipios de los Altos, hasta lo de algunas familias.
El amigo de CONACULTA que me consiguió esos libros que ya no estaban en catálogo, me informó que la editorial se negó a realizar una segunda edicion, debido a los problemas que les generó la cantidad de errores que contiene el libro.
Desde mi particular punto de vista, el principal problema de los libros del Dr. Gutierrez es su acentuado localismo, para él Jalos es practicamente el centro del universo, el Edén de donde partieron Adán y Eva a poblar el mundo, lo cual definitivamente no es cierto. Tengo el gusto de conocer al Dr. Gutierrez, al igual que otros

In reply to by jjramirezi

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La obra del Dr., J.A. Gutiérrez Gutiérrez.
Espero que se encuentre muy bien.
A pesar de sus posibles deficiencias no podemos desacreditar la obra del Dr. Gutiérrez, ni mucho menos borrarla de un plumazo. Al menos hasta no tener fuentes más fidedignas a las cuales recurrir. Sobre una balanza, tiene más cosas positivas que negativas. Recordemos que los libros casi siempre son copias de otros libros y que contienen cierto grado de ficción. Validar objetivamente este libro recaería sobre expertos o eruditos.
Considerar a su terruño el centro del universo, es una característica muy arraigada en los alteños de hueso colorado. Me refería el Ingeniero Joel Ramírez Gutiérrez en la ciudad de Guadalajara. …..Yo no sé ni porqué aquí me dicen el güero, si en Tepatitlán soy el más prieto de mi familia. A veces me cuesta tanto comprender a mis paisanos, que quisiera hacerme una transfusión de pluma fuente para que mi sangre fuera azul como la de todos ellos……..
Yo quiero seguir creyendo y

don Juan Cristobal de Luna y Tapía: Indio and Cacique

I'm descended from don Juan Cristobal de Luna y Tapía through a few of his children. He's the purchaser (1690s) of a piece of land in Lagos de Moreno, known as Cañada de los Indios Ricos (modern Cañada de Ricos).

 Any information on the following family would be helpful: 

1st generation: don Juan Cristobal de Luna y Tapía born about 1635 cc Beatris Inés. (Probable brother or 1st cousin of don Francisco de Luna born about 1637 and died abt. 1686, married doña Ana Catarina de la Cruz). 

2nd generation:

- Miguel Jacinto de Luna y Tapía born bef. 1652 in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco. 

- Pasquala Magdalena de Luna y Tapía born before 1657 probably in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco. 

- don Patricio de Luna y Tapía born before 1666 probably in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco cc doña María de la Encarnación de Alarcon (AKA María de la Cruz). 

- Andrea de la Cruz (AKA Andrea de Luna) born before 1667 in Encinillas, Ojuelos, Jalisco. 

- Cristobal de Luna y Tapía born about 1667 in Encinillas, Ojuelos

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I’m sure you probably know that some IMs for Cienega de Mata during the late 1600s can be found in the Asuncion de Maria parish in Aguascalientes? If not, I see several Luna’s - all of them Indios, including an IM for Don Cristobal HL de Don Cristobal cc Beatriz Ynes. George Fulton indexed those IMs years ago, and uploaded them to the reference files here at NR. The filmrolls have since been rearranged, but the roll numbers remain the same, you’ll just have to go by the dates. You can download the PDFs here: https://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/18014

Also, Encinillas was historically in the parish of San Matias, Pinos, Zacatecas. While there are records for Indian baptisms dating back to the late 1600s, they are well-indexed and easily found. But the IMs go back to 1650, so try digging around in that film roll. Perhaps there’s a marriage in there, and sometimes you can find ancestors appears as testigos.

I had also indexed sacramental records done in San Matias, 1613-1647, but I just

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Hello Manny,

Incredible advice. Thank you so much. I'm indebted. 

I knew some of Ciénega de Mata records were indexed through Aguascalientes but didn't know the rest. I'll follow up on everything you suggest. 

We are descended from the de Luna y Tapía family 3 (and maybe 4) different ways. So this line is important to us. 

I'll add that there is a brief write-up on don Cristobal Luna y Tapía and La Cañada de Ricos in "Lagos Indios," by Mario Gómez de Mata. I found this book online and ordered a copy. 

I was also told Gomez de Mata wrote more about this same family in another book.  If anyone has knowledge of this second book please let me know. 

Thank you again. 

Best,

Travis

Indios

Hello everyone!

Can anyone direct me to resources available in print or online, that specifically addresses the Tlaxcalan and Otomi families of Las Lagunas, Buenavista and the Pueblo de Moya?

I purchased and read Mario Gómez Mata's book, INDIOS, but it reads more as an historical narrative of the pueblos - which it is - but not as a genealogical work. 

The majority of our Indio ancestors are Tlaxcala and Otomi and from very specific families: Rhea, Hernández del Aguila, San Joseph, de Luna y Tapia, etc. 

Has anyone compiled the genealogies of the founding and early families of the Pueblos in Lagos de Moreno? 

I'm trying to document our ancestors from Moya and Buenavista, but it's like pulling teeth to trace them prior to 1660 or so, with all the surname changes. 

In one document, someone may be named Pedro de la Cruz and another, he's Pedro Hernándes, and then in a third document, he'll be called, Pedro del Aguila. It's a very tedious process, and I don't want to reinvent the wheel here if

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Hello, 

I hate that you took offense from a sincere request for advice when tracing the Indigenous Mexican ancestry of my family.

The title of my post was referencing Carlos Gómez Mata's book "Lagos Indios." I neglected to include the "Lagos" part in my haste.

I also used the term "Indios" when referencing my family's ancestors, because the parish records concerning them, specifically note them as such - without any national affiliation. That was the entire point of my post: determining national identity of colonial-era Indigenous ancestors beyond the casta designation: Indios. (Not referencing any modern population as such.)

On that subject, you mention that "settler colonial records refer only to Indigenous peoples as 'Indios.' " Not entirely, I've found many references to national affiliation in early settler records. In several, our ancestors are referred to as "Otomites" (Otomi). In others I've seen Indigenous people cited and identified as "Chichimeca."

I also read over my post and

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Hola Travis!

I know that the settler colonial records refer only to Indigenous peoples as "Indios" but this is a very offensive term for many Indigenous peoples or personas Indigenas o de pueblos originarios. Also, Indigenous law experts use the capital I for Indigenous. As we know better, we can do better. May I please ask that you refrain from using the term, "Indio" unless you are citing the language listed in a colonial record. As a person of Indigenous descent on my mother's side (Mexico) and my father's said (Cherokee), I would appreciate it if this space doesn't use offensive terminology when speaking about us. Thank you!  

Pérez de Ornelas

Decided to start a new thread on this: 

in an earlier post, Daniel Méndez Camino said: 

"Sebastián Pérez de Ornelas, my tenth great-grandfather, married Leonor González de Ruvalcaba, daughter of Juan González de Ruvalcaba and Leonor Franco de Paredes. I don't know if this Ornelas is related to the same family that settled in Los Altos, but I've only seen a few people with the surname Pérez de Ornelas; I don't know its origin."

My ancestor, Juan Pérez, AKA Juan de Santoyo, born about (or before) 1624 (probably in Lagos), had a probable relative named Gerónima de Ornelas. 

Listed in Juan's household in the 1669 Padron de Santa María de los Lagos is Gerónima de Ornelas, Viuda, living with Juan's widow, Antonia de Villegas, AKA Antonia de Mendoza, and their children (all of Juan and Antonia's known and suspected children assumed surnames of Santoyo, Pérez, Villegas and/or Mendoza).

I have no idea how Gerónima de Ornelas is related to Juan Pérez (AKA Juan de Santoyo). Sister? Mother? Daughter

Using AI: BTW I Own No Stock!!!

This is going to sound like a paid advertisement so delete right now if it gives any of you that type of flavor. I've heard that AI can assist with genealogical research and I think it really can. Now the example I've listed below was for a very simple transcription/translation but the possibilities are there. Also there is a free version but I'm used the $49/year version which gives you a limit on usage per day almost double the free version but it also gives you access to the more advanced ai versions. Basically I went to Poe.com and subscribed to the "starter" version which gives you 10,000 points to use per day (use or lose). I've understood that the below example only used a small amount of points but just use the free version for simple examples. I simply asked it to translate the uploaded document (attached below) into English and preserve the original spellings of names and got the below. For us beginners who have limited Spanish this might be the or one of the tools to use:

Tra

upload
aiExample_1.jpg (152.56 KB)

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Joseph,

Sounds like a pretty cool site.   Another one that is not as sophisticated, but works for me is: Transkribus

I have some very old Latin documents from England that are pretty much unreadable to me (from the 1550's).  With Transkribus, you drop your document onto their online folder, and it begins scanning (multiple passes).  When the scans have been completed, it offers you the choice of copying the transcribed document to a .PDF, .DOC, or Clipboard (as plain text).  The document scans are fairly quick, usually within a few minutes.

The thing is, once transcribed, you need to go to another free app, like "Google Translate", and convert the Latin transcription to a language you may need, in my case just plain ole English.  It is hit and miss on accuracy, but for me "something" is better then nothing (in most cases).

I only use the free version (apparently 50 free scans per month), but apparently the paid version can clean these documents up even further.

Hopefully this technology (AI

Ruiz de Esparza y Perez de Ornelas (Aguascalientes & Lagos de Moreno)

Estimado compañeros:

Alguien tiene mayor información sobre las siguientes personas? Todos casados en Aguascalientes y el último deberia ser en Lagos de Moreno o Teocaltiche.

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Hello! 

Do you have more information about Sebastián Pérez de Ornelas? Maybe he is related to Juan Pérez, AKA Juan de Santoyo, (born about 1624, probably in Lagos, possibly son of Diego Pérez and an unknown daughter of María Rubio)? 

The 1669 Padron de Santa María de los Lagos lists Gerónima de Ornelas, viuda, living in the household of Juan Pérez with his widow, Antonia de Villegas, AKA Antonia de Mendoza, and his children Antonio, Angelina and Ysidro (children of Juan and Antonia go by surnames of Santoyo, Pérez, Mendoza and Villegas).

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Este mensaje se trata de Marcos Macias Valadez y María Ruiz de Esparza

Por un indice que publicó Claudia Casillas encontré a una dispensa de
cuarto grado de consanguinidad de Alejandro Macias Valadez Gutiérrez
originario del Río de Santa María y vecino de Aguascalientes en el Sauz de
los Macias con Leonor López Infante y Valdés originario y vecina de la
Mololoa. Dice que Alejandro es hijo de Juan Macias Valades y de María
Gutiérrez y que Juan es hijo de María Ruiz y que Maria Ruiz es hija de
Mariana González de Rubalcava. Bautizaron a Alejandro el 10 de Abril de
1713 en San Juan de los Lagos. Bautizaron a Juan el 20 de abril 1681 en
Lagos de Moreno y murió el 1 de septiembre de 1740 en Aguas. No he
encontrado mas datos documentados sobre la linea directa de Alejandro hasta
Mariana González de Rubalcava. Según la dispensa fue hermana de Leonor
González de Rubalcava que sabemos por otras comunicaciones que hemos tenido
que fue hija Juan González de Rubalcava y de María López y que

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Armando, Daniel y cualquier otro interesado en el tema:

Gracias a los indices de Claudia Casilla (http://www.guadalajaradispensas.com) encontre en una dispensa informacion que revela la identidad de Maria Ruiz la esposa de Marcos Macias Valadez. Resulta ser hija de Juan de Ulloa, hijo a su vez de Nicolas Ruiz Esparza, hijo de Lope Ruiz Esparaza (Y Francisca Gabai) Este Juan de Ulloa, aun no lo puedo asegurar, muy probablemente casó con mariana Gonzalez de Rubalcava. Es lo que, en mi opinion, sugieren los datos antes por Armando proporcionados y el registro siguiente:

name: Marcos Macias
gender: Male
burial date: 02 Mar 1736
burial place: Aguas Calientes
race: White
marital status: Married
spouse's name: Ysabel Martin Soto Mallor
father's name: Marcos Macias
mother's name: Maria Ruiz De Robalcaba
indexing project (batch) number: B00093-3
system origin: Mexico-EASy
source film number: 299857

La dispensa se encuentra actualmente en el siguiente link
https://familysearch.org/pal

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Gracias por avisarnos de tal dispensa. He tratado de revisar todos las
dispensas que publicado Claudia para ver si podía encontrar datos nuevos de
ciertas familias como los Ruiz de Esparza y Macias Valadez pero por falta
de tiempo nunca me puse a leer toda esta dispensa. Yo no sabia que Lope
Ruiz de Esparza tuvo un hijo que se llamaba Nicolás. Hace falta encontrar
otro documento que menciona su existencia. Ojala alguien mas sabe algo de
el. Hasta que haya mención de otro documento voy a suponer que no existió
ese Nicolás y que Juan de Ulloa es hijo de Nicolás de Ulloa y María Ruiz de
Esparza bautizado en 1645. María Ruiz y Marcos Macias Valadez tuvieron su
primer hijo llamado Joseph el 8 de marzo de 1675 que ha de ser el mismo de
la dispensa.

Entonces corrigiendo el error de la dispensa el árbol de ellos sería de
esta forma:
Tronco Lope Ruiz de Esparza
María Ruiz..........1....Salvador Ruiz de Esparza
Juan de Ulloa.....2....Domingo Ruiz de Esparza
María Ruiz..........3....Dominga

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Daniel,
Yo tengo a Marcos Macias Valades, hijo de Alonso Macias Valades y de Ursula Alvarez casado con Maria Ruiz Esparza (de Ulloa) hija de Nicolas de Ulloa y Maria Ruiz Esparza. Sin embargo, por alguna razon no encuentro la fuente de estos datos.

Jaime Alvarado

Francisco de Santiago and Barbara Rubio - Guachinango/Mascota (Jalisco)

Many years ago I was extremely happy to locate a Guadalajara Marriage Dispensa for my direct ancestors Pedro de Santiago Rubio and his marriage with Marcelina Navarrete year 1715 in Guachinango. The record answered many questions however I have not advanced past the Dispensa. I have looked everywhere, and have followed the guidance of many over the years but still nothing new to advance me past the year 1715 record.  

I'm searching for information for Francisco de Santiago and his wife Barbara Rubio.  I have absolutely no information for them other than they were the parents of Pedro de Santiago Rubio as indicated on the dispensa.  I believe Barbara Rubio was living in Mascota before living in Guachinango.  I don't know when and where she married Francisco de Santiago. I estimate that Barbara Rubio was born approximately year 1665. And my best estimates are that Francisco de Santiago may be originally from Guachinango/Amatlan/Tepuzhuacan and born approximately year 1665.

Thank you

We all have links to the Romo de Vivar and the Ruiz de Esparza?

When I read, some time ago, that virtually all families with roots in our area of interest are descendants of "Capitanes" Diego Romo de Vivar and Lope Ruis de Esparza, I thought probably that was not

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For the past 5 years I have concentrated on my mother's Chavez line of the founding fathers of New Mexico. Now I am back to trying to close loose ends in my father's Romo  de Vivar line. He descends from Salvador Ygnacio Romo de Vivar and wife, Francissca Angela Escalante, Bacanuche, Sonora, Mexico. One historian Mexicano says Salvador's daughter, Maria Rita de los Dolores Romo de Vivar y Escalante, descended from Jose Romo de Vivar, the founder of Bacanuche (and also was son of Diego Romo de Vivar and Maria Rangel). Other Researchers say this Jose Romo de Vivar went to Sinaloa and Sonora and nothing more is mentioned. I am wanting to close the gap between Jose Romo de Vivar and Salvador Ygnacio. Jose had sons Geronimo, Simon, and Jose Gabriel. And Geronimo had a son, Jose Antonio who married Maria Manuela de Anza, daughter of Juan Bautista de Anza and Maria Valenzuela. During Pancho Villa's run along the Mexican-USA Border in the 19 teens his men destroyed the town of Bacanuche

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We can now add George P. Bush to the Ruiz De Esparza family tree. George P. Bush is the son of Governor Jeb (John Ellis) Bush and Columba Garnica Gallo, paternal grandparents are George H. W. Bush and Barbara Pierce. George P. Bush’s maternal grandparents are José María Garnica and Josefina Gallo. The Ruiz De Esparza ancestral line is through his Gallo ancestry. I descend from Onofre Perez Gallo, brother of his Gallo ancestor.

Through George P. Bush’s mother’s ancestry, he is a 13th cousin many times removed from George Washington, the first President of the United States of America. His paternal grandfather and uncle who were Presidents of the United State are also related to George Washington through their Bush Ancestry.

Rick A. Ricci
Source: my book Mygenes2000

Comment

I only have Lope Ruiz de Esparza so far but my people didn't stay in the area long. They seem to have wandered into Durango and settled but I have so many dead ends so here's to hoping I find a link to Diego Romo de Vivar either from Durango (mom) or Guanajuato (dad).

Can you explain what "sosa lines" are and where I would find them?

Thanks!

Comment

Three lines of descent from the Basque “Lope Ruiz De Esparza”and “Ana Francisca Gabai Moctezuma” to “Jessica Alba”

First line:

5.) Lope Ruiz De Esparza(el menor) (1569- 1651) [Ana Francisca Gabai Moctezuma]. Parent of:
6.) Lorenza Ruiz De Esparza (1601-?) [Cap.Luis Tiscareño De Molina] Parents of
7.) Francisca Tiscareño De Molina (1625 - 1660) [Jose Delgado Diaz]. Parents of:
8.) Luis Delgado Tiscareño (1648 - 1736) [Teresa Lopez Alvarado] Parents of:
9.) Jose Manuel Delgado (1684 - ?) [Margarita Macias Valadez] Parents of:
10.) Ma. Guadalupe Delgado (1722-1778) [Juan Antonio Pedroza]. Parents of:
11.) Jose Marcos Pedroza(1744 - ?) [Juana Ignacia Vasquez]. Parents of
12.) Maria Eufrasia Pedroza (1774 - ? ) [Jose Francisco Esparza]. Parents of:
13.) Jose Francisco Esparza (1769 - ?) [Maria Eufrasia Pedroza]. Parents of:
14.) Ma. Josefa Gpe. Remigia de la Trinidad Esparza (1792 - ) [José Ignacio Mosqueira] Parents of:
15.) Genoveva Mosquera (1834 -1917) [Urbano Rangel] Parents of:
16

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Muy interesante la muy grande descendencia de los Ruiz de Esparza y Navarro Gabay. Yo también tengo varias lineas que terminan en mis bisabuelos y bisabuelas de manera múltiple:

7. JACINTO RUIZ ESPARZA NAVARRO – Juana Lopez de Lizardi
8. Nicolas Ruiz de Esparza Lopez de Lizardi / Catalina FLores
9. Teresa Lopez Flores /Lucas Martínez de Sotomayor
10. Maria Martinez de Sotomayor Lopez./ Joseph Romo de Vivar Villalobos
11. Joseph Joaquin Romo de Vivar y Sotomayor / María Josefa del Pedraxo
12. Maria Manuela Cecilia Romo de Vivar Pedraxo / Pedro José Flores de ROmo Vivar
13. Elias Flores Romo / María de los Santos de Luévano
14. MARGARITA FLORES LUEVANO / Francisco Cabral Gonzalez (mis bisabuelos)
---------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
7. MARTIN RUIZ ESPARZA NAVARRO (1600*-1674) / María López de Lizardi
8. Ignacio Ruiz de Esparza y López de Lizardi (1632-1672) / Elena Sotelo Jaen (1636-1673)
9. María

Comment

Coach Tom Flores coached the NFL Raiders to two championships as a head coach. He also won a championship as an assistant head coach of the Raiders. As an assistant, he was a valuable strategist that advised the head coach, Madden. He also won a NFL championship as a player with the Kansas City Chiefs. He was the backup quarterback on that chiefs team. He was also a very good quarterback when he played for the Raiders before being traded to Kansas City.

It would be nice to attend his induction to the NFL hall of fame in the summer of 2021.

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

I have found Ginés de Carrion, born in 1520 in Andalucía, his son Ginés de Carrion, born in 1561 in Seville emigrated to Nueva España and married Francisca de Temillo (or Tremiño), born in Jalisco and had a son: Diego de Carrion Tremiño.
Diego was born in Pinos Zacatecas in 1615, his son Antonio de Carrion was born in Aguascalientes in 1645. Diego had a daughter: Tomassa de Carrion, born 1665 and a granddaughter: Maria Nicolasa de Castañeda Carrion, born in Pinos Zacatecas in 1688 who married Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Sotelo Jaén, a descendant of Moctezuma.

Jorge

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Hello Jose,

I too descend Repeatedly from the Ruiz De Esparza and Romo de Vivar, so yes, we are “primos.” My maternal grandfather is a third cousin of Santo Toribio Romo Gonzalez through both the Gonzalez and Romo lines.

Super Bowl champion Coach Tom Flores Is also a primo.
Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Interesting Rick, they probably are descendants of Capitán Juan Pedro Romo de Vivar and María de Tiscareño Molina y Ruiz Esparza, which is also one of my Romo lines.
I have also a couple of Flores lines in Aguascalientes since two diferent great grand mothers were Flores..
Regards
Jose J. Cabral

Comment

You are right José. I descend from Capitán Juan Pedro Romo de Vivar and María de Tiscareño Molina y Ruiz Esparza through their son Balthazar Romo de Vivar and his wife Cathalina Muñoz de la Barba.

Saludos primo,
Rick

Comment

Hello Brenda,
If your mom is related to him, then she is related to my maternal grandfather. Both of Santo Toribio’s parents were close relatives of my maternal grandfather, J. Hermenegildo Romo Franco.

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

I too descend repeatedly from Capitán Juan Pedro Romo de Vivar and María Lorena de Tiscareño Molina y Ruiz Esparza, from one side through their son Capitan Nicolas Romo de Vivar y Ruiz de Esparza and also from their daughter Juana Teresa Romo de Vivar Tiscareño de Molina.
6 generations after that, José Canuto Diaz Romo de Vivar who was a descendant of Nicolas married Maria Rafaela Moran Lopez who was a descendant of Juana Teresa. They are my great parents.
An interesting fact I found is that Maria Lorena Tiscareño de Molina y Ruiz was the descendant of Moctezuma II Xocoyotzin through Moctezuma's daugther Mariana Leonor de Moctezuma who married the "conquistador" Cristobal de Valderrama, born in Barcelona.
Todos somos primos
Jorge

Comment

Very true! and I think this line that connects Moctezuma to de Ruiz de Esparza y Navarro is not disputed, as far as I know. Very true we all are primos in this area of Mexico!

Comment

Hola Jorge! 

I am a descendant of these families too. The further back I go, the more out looks like everyone was marrying their cousins. I keep wondering if the information I see on Ancestry is wrong since Ancestry is notorious for bad information but it really appears there were a lot of people marrying their cousins in early colonial periods. Now, I found that even my husband's ancestors in Zacatecas are not only cousins marrying cousins but that he has a couple of lines that go back to Moctezuma & Leonor or Marina and I have three great grandparents that are all descendants of Moctezuma through these lines in Jalisco, Zacatecas, & Aguascalientes. 

Comment

Another descendant of Romo and Ruiz De Esparza is Singer Vikki Carr. A great grandmother was born in “La Chona” (Encarnacion de Diaz) Jalisco Mexico. She is a distant cousin of mine through our descent from Baltazar Romo de Vivar. She descends from the Romo and Ruiz De Esparza repeatedly. Her great great grandparents were from Lagos de Moreno, San Juan de Los Lagos, Jalostotitlan, Tepatitlan, Encarnacion de Diaz, Teocaltiche, and Aguascalientes. She also has some ancestors from Zacatecas.

Rick A. Ricci

Gomez Martinez

Hello everyone! I’m very excited to be part of this group and am hoping for assistance in researching my family history.

I am searching for information about my grandfather, who lived and passed away in Los Angeles, California, in 1994. He lived under a different name in the United States, but I have some details about his family of origin in Mexico. His parents were Demetria Gomez and Celestino Martinez from Villa Obregón, Cañadas de Obregón, Mexico. I believe his birth name may have been Ventura Gomez Martinez, although this has not been officially confirmed. He also had a brother named Maximino Martinez. I knew Maximino and his family, but they are not aware of the earlier family history.

I have come across several family surnames in my research, including Martin, Martinez, Barajas, Gomez, and Reynosa. While I have found information on other members of the family, I have located only one record connected to Ventura Martinez.

I am hoping to connect with long-lost relatives or anyone who

Comments

Comment

Hello Christy,

 You may also look for your dad’s records with the name Buenaventura Gomez.

The surname Martinez of your family was originally Martin del Campo.   Over the generations it was shortened to Martin.  It only recently was changed to Martinez.  Celestino was baptized Celestino Martin Barajas.   And his father’s surname is Martin.   His father is only given the Martinez surname in the death record of Celestino.
 

There are two Demetria with fathers of the same name but the mothers have different names.   The fathers are not the same person as they have different ancestries.
Your Demetria’s mother is named as Maria Genaro Gutierrez. This is your ancestral line   Cañadas is very close to Valle de Guadalupe  

A Ventura Gomez shows up as a three year old in a census in Valle de Guadalupe     His parents are not named in the census which could  indicate that he was either  a visitor during the census, or being raised by friends or family in Valle de Guadalupe, Jalisco.

Some of the records

Comment

Hello Rick!!!

Thank you for all this information. It’s definitely been a process navigating through so much, and the learning curve has been frustrating at times. There’s a lot to sort through, but I’m committed to understanding it fully.  You just helped fill in some missing pieces of my puzzle that I can now research further. If this is the person I'm looking for, he would be my beloved grandfather!!! He lived in the USA under a different identity. Different times I understand! 

 

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Hello, new member here! Looking for any info on Araujo and Oballe families in Griegos, Zacatecas

Hello everyone, my name is Alejandra Araujo. I have done a ton of research on most branches of my family history.

Comments

Comment

Hi Alejandra, Welcome to the Nuestrosranchos group. I have nosed around at a lot of familysearch records over the past 5 years or so, particularly Padrons and Dispensas. In the 1824 Ojocaliente (Zacatecas) padron (census), in the town of San Diego, there is a Narciso Gomes and Maria Candelaria Lopes listed in this padron, along with Rosalio Gomes, age 4 in 1824. Narciso is age 22 (born circa 1802), and Candelaria is age 25 (born circa 1799). Narciso Gomes is living in the household of Pedro Gomes (age 60), and Maria Yrinea Alvarado (age 55). Also living in this household is Alejo Gomes (age 13), and Maria Josefa Gomes (age 19), who are both likely siblings of Narciso. Alejo Gomes is later listed in a marriage record as Alejo Araujo, so I believe this is your family, and likely parents of your Narciso are Pedro Araujo (Gomes) and Maria Yrinea Alvarado.

The padron is located at:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9KJ-TZT7?i=333&cat=23…
Image 334 of 784.

Alejo

Comment

Hi Lee, I'm getting back into researching genealogy and I would like to thank you very much for this information (hopefully not too late)! I was wondering if you had any insight as to why the last name changed from Gomes to Araujo seemingly out of nowhere? It seems like the family took on the name Araujo and Gomes kind of stopped being used. I also cannot seem to find any records with Pedro Gomes and Yrinea Alvarado in Zacatecas. I appreciate all the help. Thank you!

Comment

Alejandra,

Last names of Mexico families can change for a number of reasons.  One reason was simply is to distinguish from a common surname.  Perhaps there were many Gomes families in the area, and the Arajuo surname stood out, or vice-versa.   Sometimes a surname is changed to honor a mother's lineage. Sometimes a surname is changed because the surname has a more prominate (social and/or financial) status in the area.  If a family member was disgraced in some fashion, the surname could be changed to distance themselves from the disgraced family member.   The reasons vary, and normally can only be ascertained if these situations are in local public/notary records. Unfortunately, in most cases, one may never know the reason a surname was changed, unless verbally passed down from generation to generation.

Many Zacatecas area records can be difficult to find, with many older records lost, destroyed, or not available online to the public. Check the local area(s) to see if offline records

Father/Baptism of Manuel de Lizalde-m 19 Feb 1697 at Cuquio (lived Apozol)

One of our brick walls is Manuel de Lizalde. He is in my tree on Ancestry at https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/27355561/person/2049287080/facts The surname has many variant spellings: Lisalde, Lisarde, Lizarde, Elizalde (which is the actual original name in Basque) - with and without the "de".

The earliest record for him is his 19 Feb 1697 marriage at Cuquio, Jalisco, with Maria de Robalcava. It shows his mother are Cathalina de Carbaxal but does not show his father. The m,arriage record is at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18455-52689-9 

While his records are at the church in Cuquio, they actually lived south of Yahualica at los Ranchos de Apozol. So, Cuquio was not where they actually lived and is well south of where they lived.

I went page by page through all the Cuquio baptisms from about 1680 back to about 1660, and he was not among those baptisms.

I am working my way back through the Nochistlan baptisms now but have not yet found him, although there is a

Comments

Comment

I can’t help you the Lizalde line, but there is something that seems off when you look at the marriages of their daughter Catarina.

 

Is listing Catarine de Lizarde as padres no conocidos in her second marriage an intentional or unintentional error?

Is there a dispensa in the second marriage between Catarina de Lizarde and Jose de Carbajal? 

 

23 Jan 1718

Catarina de Lizarde hija legitima de Manuel de Lizarde y de Maria de Ruvalcaba.

Blas Riuz Nunez hijo legitimo de Diego Ruiz Nunez y de Ana Gonzalez.

 

13 Feb 1736

Catarina de Lizarde hija de padres no conocidos viuda de Blas Ruiz.

Jose de Carbajal hijo de padres no conocidos.

Comment

Don,

Thanks for commenting on the Lizarde/Lizalde family, and the marriage descrepancies. 

I have not come across dispensas for either marriage that Catarina de Lizarde/Lizalde was involved with. I believe the 1736 marriage with Jose de Carabajal stated "diligencias" was necessary, but this could be marriage information, and not a dispensa. Regardless, I have not found dispensas or marriage information records for Catarina. With her 2nd marriage to Joseph de Carabajal, as a widow, parentage was not normally required to be stated. Perhaps listing her parentage was more of a clerical error, then an actual acknowlegment of lack of known parentage.

Here are a few possible reasons for one marriage being "more complete" then the other:

a. Often only one person, frequently the groom, provided the information for the marriage. If he did not know the names of his spouse’s parents, he may have stated they were unknown rather than admitting he did not know.

b. If the marriage was a second marriage for

Comment

Wesley, 

I have the same brick wall with regard to Manuel Lizalde, and also have found nothing naming his father. The Manuel Lizalde family ties back to my Zermeno family, hence my interest.

A Juan Lopez de Lizalde married Leonor Becerra y Sanchez de Mendoza on 25 Jan 1585 in Lagos de Moreno. 

This family branch appears to be the same noted in a 1791 land record which discusses an even older 26 August 1602 land record in an area close to present day  "Las Animas" (Current day Yahaulica jurisdiction). 

This Juan Lopez de Lizalde was noted as owning caballerias in the area, and was noted as a Calvary soldier. It is highly likely to be the same Juan Lopez de Lizalde that married in 1585.  Either way, the land record places the Lizalde family in Yahaulica very early on, and presents a good likelihood Manuel Lizalde descends in some manner through this family.

Link: 1791 Land Record Link

Lee

 

 

Comment

Hi Lee,

I'm unfamiliar with Manuel, but our family is descended from this same Juan Lópes de Lizalde and his wife, Leonor Becerra y Sánchez de Mendoza. Are there any credible sources that prove Juan's parentage? 

So far, nothing I've found is provable, but I'm a beginner to colonial era genealogy. 

Best,

Travis

Comment

For Miguel Lopez de Lizalde and wife Leonor Aberruza, little has been uncovered in typical online genealogy records that are available for searching/viewing via FamilySearch, Ancestry, ..etc.  

Some older records (pre 1600) are only available in person at major historical/genealogical libraries, institutions, private collections (manuscripts).  Fortunately for those of us researching the Lopez de Elizalde families, the following works by some reputable genealogists/historians provide sufficient information to ascertain the lineage of the Lopez de Lizalde family who first appeared in the Lagos de Moreno (Jalisco), and Aguascalientes areas by the 1580's.  

Three credible sources come to mind: Mariano Gonzalez-Leal, Jaime Holcombe, and Jose Luis Vasquez y Rodriguez de Frias.

1st Source -  The following from the book: (by Mariano Gonzalez-Leal) Retonos de Espana en La Nueva Galicia, Tomo (book) V. Vol. 2 Universidad de Guanajuato: 1983.  I have not obtained the book, but excerpts from the

Comment

There is a Catalina Carvajal (Garbaxal) Rivera (Ribera) from that time frame which may be worth investigating. She is the daughter of Francisco Carvajal and Cathalina Ribera

Birth Name
Catalina Carvajal Rivera
Rick A. Ricci

La correcta filiación de los Sotelo

Buenos días.

Comments

Comment

Pleito de Rodrigo Hidalgo, de Toro (Zamora) 
Andrés Vela Núñez de Sotelo, de San Miguel de la Ribera (Zamora) 
Antonio de Sotelo, de San Miguel de la Ribera (Zamora) 
Diego Arias de Sotelo, de San Miguel de la Ribera (Zamora) Sobre Rodrigo Hidalgo, administrador durante 24 años de Guiomar de Sotelo y su marido Francisco Martínez de Tordesillas, contra el capitán Andrés Vela Núñez de Sotelo y Antonio de Sotelo, como testamentarios de la dicha Guiomar y contra Diego Arias de Sotelo como donatario de sus bienes para que le paguen los 120.000 maravedíes que la dicha Guiomar le dejó mandados en un codicilo antes de morir por los servicios prestados en esos 24 años.


Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Saludos Erik,

From primary sources found on PARES, I had originally posted the following information, but I found another source that gives different information that you can see in the corrections on the bottom ancestral line.


original post:
1)- Payo Rodríguez de Sotelo (Aka Payo Rodríguez de Ribera) and Juana Herrera

2)- Payo Sotelo and Ysabel Ruiz

3)-Diego Sotelo “el Viejo” and Ynes Sedeño had many children. The two named in this document are:

3.1)-Luis Sotelo de Rivera
3,2)-Payo Sotelo Nar’uaez (Narváez)

and 
1)- Payo Rodríguez de Sotelo (Aka Payo Rodríguez de Ribera) and Juana Herrera

2.)-Juan Sotelo. Who Is the father of

Payo Sotelo de Ribera, Tomas Sotelo de Ribera, and Eugenio Sotelo de Ribera

=====///////////////////////

New post
Corrections :  different wife for #1 (Francisca Soto), Payo senior and Francisca are grandparents of Juan Sotelo. Payo Sotelo (junior) who is married to Ysabel Ruiz are the parents of Juan Sotelo.

so what I gather from this is that Francisca Soto is a first wife

Comment

Hola Rick,

Thanks to you! It is very interesting what you mention. I think it is worth digging a bit more about that family. There is a clear and beautifully written letter in PARES that has their genealogy: "Carta de Fernando Arias de Yebra a Álvaro de Yebra, su tío, informándole de varias noticias sobre su ascendencia y la de Diego Arias de Yebra; y la respuesta de dicho Álvaro".

I send you what I have written about Isabel de Reinoso:

"5) Isabel de Reinoso quien fue esposa del licenciado Diego Arias de Yebra[ Testó el 4 de enero de 1572 ante el Escribano Cristóbal Casado dejando como herederas a su esposa y sus dos hijas. ], hijo del bachiller Arias de Yebra con quien tuvo a Inés de Yebra y Reynoso, religiosa del monasterio de Santa Sofía en Zamora y quien fundó el 3 de marzo de 1579 en Toro un mayorazgo a favor de su hermana Leonor de Yebra y Reynoso y sus descendientes en forma regular[ Testó el 15 de diciembre del año 1600 en el cual nombra a dos hija: María que casó con

Comment

Saludos Erik,

From a document that I read, the Sotelo surname came about because they came from the Villa de Sotelo. The document implies that before arriving at San Miguel de Ribera that the “Sotelo” were known by a different surname. I was wondering if they meant a name other than “Arias.” This change in surname was common in those times. While searching to see if I could find the other surname I came across some more Reynosos in San Miguel de Rivera.

Diego Arias de Yerba married to Isabel Reynoso sister of Antonio Reynoso

http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/3997817?nm

Gracias por tu trabajo Erik,

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Dear Erik,

I found another Diego Sotelo el viejo in San Miguel de Ribera alive about the same time as the Diego Sotelo that is the ancestor of our Diego Arias de Sotelo. He is listed as having a father with a different name than the one that you found.

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Dear Rick,

Thank you so much! I do not have her testament but if you can be so kind to share it with me I will be very grateful.
Maybe I can be of help with the letters that you mention though my eyesight is not what it used to be.

Erik

Comment

Dear Erik,

I spoke too soon. It isn’t your Juana’s testament. It is the testament of of Juana Herrera who is the wife of the first, or one of the first, Sotelos in San Miguel de Rivera. It seems that they most likely picked up their surname when Payo Rodríguez de Sotelo moved from Sotelo to San Miguel de Rivera. Payo Rodríguez de Sotelo, and later aka Payo Rodríguez de Toledo was from the Villa de Sotelo, Ciudad de Toledo.

I believe that Payo Rodríguez Sotelo is an ancestor to Diego Arais de Sotelo as he seems to be the patriarch of the Sotelos from San Miguel de Ribera..

Pedro Arias de Dávila married Isabel Bobadilla (daughter of Francisco Fernández de Bobadilla and Maria Peñalosa).

It is clear from a letter from Capitan Antonio Sotelo de San Miguel de Ribera to his son, our Diego Arias de Sotelo, that Pedro Arias is somehow related to Diego.

Form a document found concerning some family members I found a family member with the surname Alonso Bobadilla.

1)-Alonso

Comment

Dear Erik,

You gave me enough information to send me digging for Antonio Sotelo’s parents. I believe I have found them in a document stating the hidalguia of a couple of cousins of Antonio Sotelo. I won’t post the information here as I want to keeep up the suspense for your book. And I may be wrong, and this is another branch of the Sotelo family. The document that I found doesn’t mention Antonio, but with what I already know about the family, plus what the information you provided, I believe that I have filled in a couple of blanks. I will download all of the document pages and send them to you later this week.

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Dear Rick, Denise and Jorge:

Thank you so much for your kind support and messages. I will post the link to the book in here if the admins are okay with it. It will be released on Amazon.

Regarding the genealogy, summing up the Sotelo side it is like this:

1.- Luis de Sotelo = Isabel de N. They resided in Zamora and Sanzoles where they had a main house and hacienda. (Casa principal)

1.1.- Diego de Sotelo. He owned two houses close to the church of St. Lucía in Zamora.
He was present with the rest of the hidalgos in the reunions they made in the church of Santa María la Nueva. When he was young and when the king of Portugal sent his army to Toro and Zamora, he was seen riding his horse, holding his lance and shouting "Castilla, Castilla!"
Diego had two wives:

= Juana (first wife).

1.1.1.- Captain Antonio de Sotelo, resident of Zamora and a "hidalgo principal" in San Miguel de Ribera = Uzenda Núñez Vela.

1.1.1.1.- Diego Arias de Sotelo y Núñez Vela.
1.1.1.2.- Captain Andrés Núñez

In reply to by Erik_Andrs_Rey…

Comment

Great work, Erik! You mentioned some documents from the Real Chancilleria de Valladolid - would one of them be the pleito de Guiomar de Herrezuelo, viuda de Andrés de Sotelo? I found this document a while back, it’s regarding her attempts to maintain the status of “hijodalgo” enjoyed by her husband, and she establishes his genealogy. It corresponds with what you’ve said (and gives the surnames of both Luis de Sotelo’s wife, and that of Juana, the wife of Diego de Sotelo el viejo). Do you already have this document? If not, and if you’d like it, please contact me through this website, and I can get it to you.

Saludos,
Manny Díez Hermosillo

In reply to by jrefugioghermosillo

Comment

There is another Antonio Sotelo from San Miguel de Ribera this one is known as Antonio Arias de Sotelo, and he is a son of Pedro Arias de Sotelo and grandson of Juan (Joan) Arias de Sotelo and Antonia Medina.

1) Juan (Joan) Arias de Sotelo and Antonia de Medina
2)Pedro Arias de Sotelo and Ysabel Bermudez de Montanos y Romero
3)Antonio Arias de Sotelo,

Cristoval Bermudez de Montanos (Peinado de Montano) and Maria Romero are the parents of Ysabel Bermudez de Montanos

In reply to by jrefugioghermosillo

Comment

Dear Manny,

Thank you for your kind offer and for your generosity, I do know it. Yes, you are right. That document is indeed one of those that provide us with the evidence to reconstruct the Sotelo lineage.

I arrived to it by mere chance. I wasn't looking for information about the Sotelo back then, I was researching the Herrezuelo from Castile. I found that their presence in Autillo de Campos can be dated as far as 1343 when the apparent head of the lineage -Juan Alfón Ferrezuelo, son of Rodrigo Alfón- was recognized as hidalgo by the residents of Autillo.

Serendipity is a blessing, isn't it?

I wrote about the Herrezuelo here:

https://autillodecampos.blogspot.com/2020/07/el-linaje-de-los-herrezuel…

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to connect Guiomar to this family yet.

Best,

Comment

Estimado Erik,

I will be sending you some information that may help you in your research. I have some information on the ancestry of Lope Sotelo’s wife Esperanza Rodríguez de Ribera. I put this ancestry together by compiling from different secondary sources.

1) Gonzalo López de Ribera m. Teresa Vasquez de Meira
2) Lope López de Ribera m. Maria Afan
3) Ruy (Rodrigo) López de Ribera m. Inés de Sotomayor
4) Per Afán de Ribera “el Viejo” m. Maria Rodríguez Marino (first wife)
5) Esperanza Rodríguez de Ribera m. Lope de Sotelo
6) Pero (Pedro) Sotelo m. Inés Cisneros
7) Conquistador Antonio Sotelo Cisneros

=====================================================================

1)King Alfonso IX de Leon and Aldonza Martins De Silva
2)Rodrigo Alfonso de Leon, Señor de Aliger m. Ines Rodríguez de Cabrera
3)Sancha Alfonso de Leon m. Lope Sánchez Señor de Valenzuela y Jodar
4)Sancha Martinez de Jodar, conquistador del Castillo de Jodar m. Berenguela de Cabrera
5)Juana Rodríguez de Jodar m

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Dear Leon de Tejada

I am so happy you are writing a book on the family of Diego Arias de Sotelo! Thanks for sharing new info here in NR!
The thread which Rick has provided (in this thread) will show you what else has turned up in our (NR members) searches/research, there could be references and links there which you might find helpful.

I look forward to reading your book!

Best Regards
Denise Fastrup

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El 16 de abril de 1550, Guiomar de Herrezuelo, viuda de Andrés de Sotelo, capitán, vecina de San Miguel de la Ribera (Zamora), litiga contra el concejo de San Miguel de la Ribera (Zamora) y el fiscal de Real Chancillería Ibargüen, sobre exención de impuestos

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Estimado Erik,

What a week! This same week that you post Diego Aria de Sotelo’s, I found out that I descend from Pedro Arais Dávila. In a letter from Diego’s father to his son, Pedro Arias de Avila was mentioned. Ever since I learned of this letter I unsuccessfully searched for the Sotelo Cisnero family connection. Now that we now that his paternal grandfather has a different ancestry, it is possible that we may finally find the family connection to Pedro Arias D’Avila.

A couple of years ago a group of us mentioned in a thread that we had doubt regarding Antonio’s ancestry so it is great that you finally found proof of his true ancestry.

Here is the location of the thread where we discussed his ancestry, his connection to Pedro Arias D’Avila, and the Arias Sotelo Cisneros family:

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/24399?page=2

Thanks again Erik for sharing your research,

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Dear Rick,

Thanks to you for your kind words. I plan to release this shortly in a very small book hoping that this information will be useful to seasoned genealogists such as yourself.
I omitted deliberately the last name of Isabel -wife of Luis de Sotelo- because I know it will surprise you the same way it surprised me. The reason why I haven't disclosed the last name of Isabel yet is because I need to find the connection to the rest of the main branches of that Castilian family (Without telling you directly I know you have already realized the last name I refer to).
I have a good lead because she and her husband Luis had a "...casa buena, principal y hacienda..." in the area of Zamora and Sanzoles during the XV century and they are related to the Romero who also owned lands in Sanzoles.

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Saludos Erik,

Yo he estudiado muchos de los primos de los Sotelo, acumulando historias de esta familia que tuvo un gran impacto en el pleito religioso de ese tiempo sobre las enseñansas de Erasmus sobre Cristianismo. Es terible como la inquisición atacó muchos miembros de esta familia no mas por juntarse para estudiar la Biblia y darle gracias a dios. Fueron acusados de estudiar la Biblia demasiado y de juntarse a darle gracias a Dios y seguir las enseñanzas de Erasmus. Espero con mucha anticipación y alegría los resultados de tu investigación.

Como escribiste una vez, hacemos buen mancuerna en nuestros estudios.

Muchísimas Gracias Erik,

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Corrección: "Pedro de Sotelo casado con Isabel de Cisneros" debe decir "con Inés de Cisneros".

In reply to by Erik_Andrs_Rey…

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Buenos días Erik,
Gracias por compartir esta información, yo también desciendo de Diego Arias de Sotelo y también tenía el error de Antonio el conquistador como su padre, otro error que veo en mi árbol genealógico es que pensaba que el padre de Lope era Pedro de Sousa en vez de Luis de Sotelo.
Creo que tengo que hacer una revisión completa de mis antepasados pues esto me llevaba a una rama portuguesa que ahora no es válida.
Tal como le había preguntado a Rick, me gustaría saber cómo puedo comprar los libros que están escribiendo pues yo tengo muy pocas fuentes de información.
Saludos
Jorge

Possible clues as to parents of Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza

Some information in a marriage record was posted on http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/22981?page=2.

Comments

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I would like to clarify my statement.   Isabel de Mendoza was born in what is now Mexico, but she wasn’t full blooded native.   Her  father is identified as Diego Hurtado de Mendoza from a document not in my possession. What I know about this Diego is his parents and siblings, was single when he came over, who he came over with, and who he worked for. The clues that I still need to follow come from his employer. I am seeking out records that may reveal a little more about his time in Mexico. I do know how he is closely related to other Mendoza’s that came over, both in Mexico and South America.  I have not seen the document that states that Diego Hurtado de Mendoza is her father, and that is why I searched everywhere for her ancestry.   What I have put together is Diego Hurtado de Mendoza’s ancestry.  I would like to read this document to see if I can find more information.


I also put together an ancestry of Isabel De Mendoza Velasco who also fits the timetable for our Isabel Mendoza.

Comment

There is no mention of the name of Isabel Mendoza de Hurtado’s mother.  I believe that she may have been a native.   Her father is mentioned coming over from Spain and his duties, but there is no mention of a wife.   

Rick A. Ricci
 

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Those Diego lived and died earlier than when we know Isabel was born. This Diego Hurtado and Maria Lerma child is marrying in 1570. This places This Couple as a possibility. This Isabel had children in the mid to late 1550's and 1560's. Mr. Navarro claimed that she descended from this father you mentioned but through a daughter of his. I believe that the problem was that this daughter lived at at an earlier time period and that an extra generation was needed.
Thanks Danny

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This geni site http://www.geni.com/people/Diego-De-Mendoza/6000000018990684674

has Diego Hurtado de Mendoza. It says that he's married to somebody name *Sanchez* wit no first name and it says hes the son of Inigo Lopez de Mendoza y Quinonez and Francisca Pacheco Portocoro.

But the geni ones seem to make a lot of mistakes or just make up stuff because Wikipedia say that Inigo Lopez de Mendoza y Quinonez son Diego Hurtado de Mendoza is a poet and it says he wen to England and Italy but doesn't look like he was ever in Mexico. It says he was banished from court in 1568 but says he spent the rest of his life in Granada Spain so that doesn't seem like the right Diego Hurtado de Mendoza.

Theres a sea captain name Diego Hurtado de Mendoza
https://books.google.com/books?id=U5Z6AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA470&lpg=PA470&dq=%2…

Who is Teresa Salazar (cc Antonio Beloso de Sotomayor)?

At this point, our family is descended from almost every child of Simon Báez (c1630-1659) and Maria de la Cerda (c1633-aft1690).

Our most recently discovered Báez ancestor is Ignacio Báez de la Cerna:

1st generation - Ignacio Báez de la Cerna (c1658-????) cc Juana Gutiérrez de Mendoza (c1661-????)

2nd generation - and then Ignacio and Juana's son, Francisco Báez (c1680-1702) cc  24 Aug 1701 to Catalina/Catharina de Salazer alias Beloso/Veloso, daughter of Antonio Beloso de Sotomayor and Teresa de Salazar, all Espanoles.

But who is Teresa de Salazar?

Origin of Francisco Magdaleno/Madaleno cc Elvira de Mendoza?

Happy New Year To All!,

Did we ever get to the bottom of the origin of Francisco Magdaleno/Madaleno cc Elvira de Mendoza? If not, I may have found another clue in the recently released treasure trove of the Morelia archives:

Petricion de Gonzalo Fernandez de Abrego para recibir herencia de su madre - Beatriz de Talavera. (Morelia - 1602)

In this petition we find out that Gonzalo is the son of Andres Fernandez de Abrego cc Beatriz de Talavera. Furthermore, we have testimony from a couple of interesting witnesses: Francisco Magdaleno, who declares that he's the uncle of Gonzalo. This given that Gonzalo is the son of his sister Beatriz de Talavera!. Furthermore, we have another testimony from Geronimo Magdaleno de Mendoza who testifies that he's a "primo hermano" to Gonzalo. This would be the same Geronimo who was the son of Francisco cc Elvira de Mendoza. 

I think this is a very interesting clue into the origins of the Magdalenos/Madalenos of Michoacan and Jalisco. In looking for more clues

Comments

Comment

After doing some more searching, I found the Header and Footer of the last will and testament of Franciso Madaleno!

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSKV-DSM1-9?view=fullText&keywords=Madaleno&lang=en&groupId=M9Z2-XDQ

The crazy thing is that it contains the parents of Francisco! I read their names as Gonzalo Fernandez Madaleno and Maria (I think "Gutierrez or Fernandez" in abbreviated form?), "difuntos vecinos que fueron de la Ciudad de Mexico..." As a bonus it also contains confirmation that Diego Madaleno was his brother. With this we now know Francisco's parents as well as two siblings, Diego Madaleno and Beatriz de Talavera!

 

Daniel

 

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Enhorabuena, estimado Daniel!

Qué gratas noticias iniciando el año. Gracias a tu hallazgo, se puede determinar que María es María Hernández, nacida hacia 1508 porque tiene 30 años cuando testifica en el juicio de Beatriz González en 1538: "María Hernández, mujer de Gonzalo Hernández Madaleno, de 30 años"

Esto viene en la tesis doctoral de Da. Nora Olanni Ricalde Alarcón, Mujeres Fundadoras de la Nueva España... (Universidad de Granada. 2023).

Un saludo y nuevamente gracias por tu importante hallazgo.

Erik

 

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Estimado Erik:

Te agradezco sinceramente tus amables palabras y la valiosa información que compartes. Es muy satisfactorio confirmar que el hallazgo coincide con fuentes académicas.

Para mí es un verdadero placer poder compartir este descubrimiento, y confío en que contribuya, aunque sea modestamente, a seguir avanzando en el estudio y esclarecimiento de la historia de esta familia.

Recibe un cordial saludo y mi agradecimiento por tu atención y generosidad al compartir estas referencias.

Daniel

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Daniel, yo también te agradezco por el gran hallazgo. Gracias también a Erik por compartir nuevas informaciones sobre los genearcas de muchos nosotros, Gonzalo Fernández/Hernández Magdaleno y María Hernández.

Les comparto informaciones genealogicas de las cláusulas testamentarias de Francisco Magdaleno incluidos en los autos que nos comparto Daniel.

Un cordial saludo,

Austin Pérez

Valladolid, 2 de agosto de 1612: En el nombre de Dios, amén. Sepan cuantos esta carta vieren como yo Francisco Madaleno [Magdaleno], vecino de esta ciudad de Valladolid, provincia de Mechoacan [Michoacán] de la Nueva España, mayordomo que soy de la fábrica y hospital de esta dicha ciudad, hijo legítimo de Gonzalo Fernández Madaleno y de María [¿Hernández?], mis padres difuntos, vecinos que fueron de la ciudad de México, estando enfermo del cuerpo y sano de la voluntad y en mi juicio...

...dejo y nombro por mis albaceas ejecutores de este mi testamento a la dicha doña Elvira de Mendoza, mi mujer, y a Jerónimo

Question and translation needed for marriage record of Cristóbal de Santoyo alias Pérez, "mestiso soltero i criollo?"

Hello and Happy New Year!

I have a question: when someone is called "criollo" in colonial records it usually implies they are born in Mexico from two Spanish parents, correct?

Is this a hard rule? Why would someone be called both mestizo and criollo in the same record? Because he is the son of one parent who was born in Spain, perhaps?

Cristóbal de Santoyo alias Pérez, "mestiso soltero i criollo," probable, but unproven, son of Juan de Santoyo alias Pérez (possibly Spanish) and Antonia de Villegas alias Mendoza (noted as mestiza in multiple sources), both of Lagos. Cristóbal de Santoyo alias Pérez married June 1, 1668 to Ana Burgeño, daughter of Ysidro de Araujo and Beatris Burgeño alias López, in Santa Maria de los Lagos.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5RG-Y

My Spanish isn't proficient enough to understand the entire record - especially the notation in the margin. Would someone please look at it and translate or explain the record for me. This could be a game-changer for

Comments

Comment

I have only seen the term 'criollo' used to mean place of birth or origin and not used to signify caste. Of the records that include the term 'criollo' for a person it will also include the person's caste (español, mestizo, indio, mulato.

Saludos,

Austin Pérez

Comment

"...mestiso soltero i criollo de esta villa..."

In this instance, as well as in the other records on the same page, the writer used the word criollo to mean originario (autóctono o nativo de esta villa de Lagos), and not in the usual sense related to the castas colonial that one typically sees in these records.

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Thank you very much for the explanation. I'm a novice to colonial genealogy, and the learning curve is steep. Very appreciative of the assist.

Best,

Travis

Website Revival Update 2021-2031 Covered!!!

A few years back the website was a crossroads and the future looked dim. The site was down and Rosalinda Ruiz took the bull by the horns and organized the Nuestros Ranchos WorkGroup (Many thanks Rosalinda). Via that group a small group of individuals formed the Tech Group: Lee, Rosalinda, Wesley, Arturo and I but above and beyond the Tech Group was spearheaded by our Elite Webmaster Lee Ingram (Muchisimas!!!). Anyway as a result of the larger Workgroup a fund raising effort was started and with the help of 26 members a total of $776.24 was collected. Since 2021 when the site was revived Lee Ingram has been working tirelessly to get the site up and keep it up to date. During that time Lee had certain expenses with the work and just recently I was able to reimburse him for out of pocket monies spent and to pay forward for the webhosting and domain registration (Lee could explain it better). Anyway this email is to say that the approximate $800 was well spent for the past 4 years as well

Comments

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Joseph, thank you for sharing this incredible story, and thank you, all: Joseph, Lee, Rosalinda, Wesley and Arturo for the work and time you placed into this site. I'm happy to contribute monetarily once a means to do so is established.

Best regards,

Travis

Miembro Nuevo

¡Saludos a todos! Me llamo Jonathan Mendoza y soy servidor de todos ustedes me apasiona la búsqueda de los antepasados personalmente mi meta es descubrir mi pasado judio sefardi y saber de que parte de españa vinieron mis antepasados de apellido ruiz de los cobos 

He llegado hasta este punto a base de documentos y de la ayuda que me han brindado unos buenos familiares y amigos mios que menciono por nombre (Jesus Mendoza y Aaron Mendoza) ellos y su servidor tenemos los mismos antepasados en comun sigo en la búsqueda de mas documentos que revelen otros detalles aunque se ha vuelto mas difícil entre mas retrocedo en el tiempo 

En cualquier caso sigo adelante y si en algo puedo ayudarles con todo gusto lo haré muchas gracias por haberme aceptado 

https://www.nuestrosranchos.org/JonathanMendoza1998

 

On the possible origins of Isabel de Mendoza, wife of Toribio Hernández de Arellano

Following the hypothesis that Isabel de Mendoza, wife of Toribio Hernández de Arellano, was a native (chichimeca?), I would like to leave this note for the benefit of future research. 

The proposition of a native origin for Isabel de Mendoza is not new, it predates the publication of Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia. This possibility was suggested by Mariano González-Leal during a private dinner at his house, years before Retoños was published. It is crucial to emphasize that this remains a speculative theory and no proof has been found. It is based on the following:

  1. Strategic. A marital alliance between a spaniard like the mayor Toribio Hernández de Arellano and an indigenous woman, particularly one of cacique lineage, would have been a strategic asset in the region of Santa María de los Lagos. This area was situated on a volatile frontier (frontera de chichimecas), and such unions could have been a method of securing alliances with indios amigos or indios de paz, thereby

Comments

Comment

Hello Eric,

I too have wondered about the document that people have said exists that identifies Diego Hurtado de Mendoza as a relative of the Viceroy and father of Isabel Mendoza. This Diego Hurtado de Mendoza came over as criado of the Bishop. He was single when he came over, and the question remains on whether he traveled back and forth from Spain, or if he just stayed in Mexico after his first trip.  I believe he made more than one trip as the date of birth of Isabel is given by most genealogists as mid to late 1530’s.  If he really is her father then he would have had to come to Mexico earlier than his trip to Mexico in the early 1550’s. Because this Diego is connected to the viceroy, I believe that he worked first for him and that is why he most likely made more than one trip between Spain and Mexico. If he traveled  back and forth across the Atlantic Ocean as representative of the Viceroy and the Bishop, then that could possibly explain why there is not much written about his life

Comment

I would like to clarify my statement.   Isabel de Mendoza was born in what is now Mexico, but she wasn’t full blooded native.  The Diego Hurtado de Mendoza that was identified as her father came over from Spain.   Diego was single when he came over and little is known about him except who he came over with and who he worked for.  I don’t have proof that he was her father, but he is the Diego Hurtado de Mendoza that a document said was her father. The clues that I still need to follow come from his employer. I am seeking out records that may reveal a little more about his time in Mexico. I do know Diego’s ancestry and he is closely related to other Mendoza’s that came over, both in Mexico and South America. It is clear that Isabel’s mother was native or a mestiza.  I do not know the identity of Isabel’s mother.

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Thank you, Tristán and Rick, for your comments.

I hope we, or someone in the future, will eventually find documentation to prove those hypotheses. Researcher Rick Rodriguez posted an interesting comment on Isabel de Mendoza's Familysearch profile, which notes: "Isabel de Mendoza fue de india o mestiza. Esto se deduce porque varios de sus descendientes directos maternos resultaron con haplogrupo indígena." I hope Rick Rodriguez, if he is part of this group, can share more about his interesting finding.

I also have a question, Rick. What document proves that Diego Hurtado de Mendoza is the father of Isabel? And if he did have a daughter named Isabel, how does that connect her specifically to Santa María de los Lagos and to Toribio Hernández de Arellano? This would help clarify that the Isabel in question is not someone else with the same name.

Best regards,

Erik.

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Thank you Erik for sharing this interesting theory. 

Hoping to hear more on this research. I have also been following with great interest your recent thread on Toribio Hernández de Arellano and the possible connection to the Hernández family from Salamanca. No doubt that further evidence will emerge to confirm this association. 

Best regards, 

Tristán Díaz de León

Delgado on Pendencia in Sierra de Pinos

Hola primos y primas,

Comments

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Sometime ago I read your findings on Diego Delgado, his wife and family in law. At the time I didn`t realize that Juan Diaz, his father in law happened to be one of the founders of Celaya on January 1st, 1571 (There are no other mentions to a Juan Diaz in the area until at least 1611, and this one was married to a certain Agustina Rodriguez, mestiza and he himself apparently a mestizo, and they both lived in the village of San Miguel in 1614). He and the other founders were granted land at the beginning of 1574 and they made the commitment to keep them for, at least, ten years, but by 1582 he had sold his. This might have happened probably because he was a master shoemaker and not a labrador, and it can also be the reason why he moved to San Luis Potosí.

The founder of Celaya were 30, and they had to be, and actually were, heads of family, i.e. at least married, and in most cases had children. This means that it was highly probable that they were all above 20 years of age. That would

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Hola Héctor,

Very interesting and very plausible, that Juan Diaz was among the founders of Celaya. Great lead! From the approximate birth years of his children, he could easily have been born before 1550. And I agree with you about RMB’s assessment, and that he was speaking of another person with the same name, likely Juan Diaz de Silva, who was a maestro zapatero.

According to Fray Cristobal Cabrera’s testimony in his criminal case (Oct 1626), Juan Diaz was living in Sierra de Pinos around 1610, with his daughter and her husband, and that he was very old and extremely poor, for which reason he visited the convent where Fray Cristobal was guardian for meals: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDY-QCXR?cat=31792

Here is a carta de venta, dated 29 Aug 1617, Juan Diaz, resident of San Luis Potosi, sells partes de dos minas que tiene en Sierra de Pinos to Pedro de Castañeda. I can’t say with complete certainty that this is our Juan Diaz, but he mentions that the mines were

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Hola, Manny,

Congratulations on your research. It is truly impressive. I'm very grateful to you because the information that you provide has helped me get a more precise idea on another of Celaya's founders.

As I believe I mentioned before, all of Celaya's founders on whom I have been able to gather information other than their names and land grants were dead by 1600. Although it's not impossible that the Juan Diaz that you have found coul've been one of the founders, there is a chance that he might have been his son. By January 1st, 1571, they were all heads of a family and, if I'm correct, they all had to be of at least 25 years of age, or have been emancipated by their fathers.

Another of the founders was Juan Gallego, who seems to have had a son, Hernan Gallego or Gallegos, married to a Mexican indian and living in Apaseo at the beginning of the XVII century. Little more is known about him. But considering that many of the founders participed in the foundation of the village together

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I am sorry I cannot answer your question, but I do want to give you information (In case you don't have it) about one of your Delgado ancestors.

I came across this while researching my own Delgado line from Tlaltenango and Atolinga, Zacatecas.

Juan Delgado is in the following book "Spain's Patriots of Northwestern New Spain" the link follows:

http://www.somosprimos.com/hough/nwus.pdf

He is listed among the Spanish Patriots who fought against England during the American Revolution. He is listed alphabetically on page 48 on the pdf document. He was son of Bartolome Delgado, who was son of Francisco Delgado, who was son of Diego Delgado as you previously posted.

Other helpful links.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5F8-DQV
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5FZ-KNN

I hope this helps your research.

Ruben

In reply to by rojasdelgado

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Hello Ruben,

Thank you for sharing that. I was approached by a member of the DAR in regards to that historic link; as it turns out, Juan Joseph Delgado was actually the grandson of my g7's Bartolome Delgado and Francisca Josefa Echevarria y Merquelin, and son of Juan Manuel Delgado and Matiana Contreras. So, he was my 1st-cousin 7 times removed (so my sisters don't qualify for the DAR).

It's great to have a link between our zacatenos and the American Revolution!

Do you descend from this same family?

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

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Thank you Manny for asking the questions about Diego Delgado and Juana Dias. And thank you Ruben for the most valuable information on Juan Joseph.
Juan Joseph Delgado (2nd Cousin 6x)although he is related from his mother Mateana Contreras Rodriguez as well, I had the informational PDF when I first started last year but I forgot I had it. I was able to add his family to my ancestry account and only merged his 1st and second wife Juana diaz Trevino montemayor etc that were listed on the PDF. Here is his ID(L44C-41J) on Familysearch.org. Happy Holidays to all!!

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Hola primos y primas,

I was going through notary records in San Luis Potosi, and I found Diego Delgado, miner from "El Descubrimiento de Nuestra Señora de la Concepcion de Sierra de Pinos," registering some mines in Pinos. From the timeline, I'd say this is Diego Delgado, who was married to Juana Diaz:

24 Jan 1603, Registro de Minas
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-S7NS?mode=g&i=163&wc=…

11 Mar 1604, Registro de Minas
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-S7JN?mode=g&i=113&wc=…

His name also appears in other mine claims on the same roll, in reference to other mines registered in Pinos.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

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Manny,

This is good information. Its really nice to find out how our ancestors made their money. Do you know what kind of mine it was like gold or silver? Also you say they lived on Pendencia, is that a place or does that mean something? also when someone is registering a mine does that mean they own the mine? i recently connected to this family through my ancestor Rafaela Delgado

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Delgado-287

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Hi Danny,

San Luis Potosi and Zacatecas were known for their silver mines, though there was some gold, mercury and other metals. These would be "mine claims," as we call them in English, and yes, the registrants owned the mines, unless they were registering them in someone else's name.

Pendencia is a hacienda, north of the town of Pinos; these days, it's a "mezcalero" hacienda, where they grow cactus and distill their own tequila.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

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Hola Primos,

I think I’ve found the two documents that can establish that Diego Delgado, who married Isabel de Islas Martinez Lozano, was the son of Diego Delgado and Juana Diaz.

This is the IM for Nicolas Gomez, Mulato Esclavo de Diego Delgado, of the Pendencia, for his marriage to Juana Maria India, 11 Sep 1647, in San Matias, Pinos.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-B7RG-6?i=45&wc=3PS9-W38

Appearing as testigos, are brothers, Juan Delgado (35y) and Diego Delgado “El Moso” (25y), españoles, vecinos de la Pendencia. According to Juan’s declaration, Nicolas was born in the home of his brother, Diego Delgado, who is Nicolas’s master. Diego Delgado El Moso says he’s known Nicolas for 18 years, and that he was born in the home of his father, Diego Delgado (“El Viejo”).

From the timeline, approximate ages and location, we can surmise that Diego Delgado “El Viejo” is the same who married Juana Diaz, and Juan Delgado is their son, b. 9 May 1604, married to Maria de Vargas and

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I wanted to make a correction, regarding this entry, since it's not a mine claim, but the registration of a lot in Pinos, with an ore mill & smelter, quarters for Indians, and a main house. It had a water hole and was next to the lot of Pedro Narbais [de Carvajal]:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-S7NS?mode=g&i=163&wc=…

The only baptism record I have for their children is for Juan, b. 9 May 1604, Sagrario, SLP. He's likely the oldest, so Diego Delgado and Juana Diaz might have been married the previous Jun 1603, and in SLP.

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Hola prim@s,

I thought I’d do some catch-up on the Delgado’s of the Pendencia. It’s been more than 6 years since I started this thread, and I’ve accumulated some information about this family since.

First of all, I can confirm that Diego Delgado “el Mozo” and Juan Delgado were the sons of Diego Delgado and Juana Diaz. On 13 Mar 1656, Diego Delgado, resident of La Pendencia in the jurisdiction of Sierra de Pinos, born in the City of Celaya, the legitimate son of Diego Delgado and Juana Diaz, gave power of attorney to doña Isabel Martinez Lozano his wife, and to Juan Delgado his brother, and to Juan Martin Chavez, miner and resident of La Pendencia, so that they could write his testamento, as he was very sick and unable to do so. He named as his legitimate children and heirs:
- Juan Delgado age 16 (b. 10 Sep 1639, San Matias, Pinos, Zac.)
- Baltasar Delgado age 14, (b. 2 Jan 1641, San Matias, Pinos, Zac.)
- Francisco Delgado age 8 (b. 23 Apr 1647, San Matias, Pinos, Zac.)
- Maria

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Thank you Manny for this very valuable info.

It's been a while seen I've been able to add new ancestors to my tree, keeps getting harder.

I descend from Diego Delgado & Juana Díaz through their son Joseph Delgado > Luis Delgado Tiscareño > Teresa Delgado > Andrea Maldonado > José Tomás Fernández de Palos, etc. This line survives in Coahuila, in the area of Monclova.

Regards,

Bernardo Menchaca