TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

Can you cite a primary source?   A few years ago a genealogist that lived in Colorado did much research on this line, and she could not find any primary sources.  

I have seen that many people take it as a given, but I still would like to see a primary source.   

Hello Rick

I understand your skepticism. My friend looked into my genealogy, and got back to me a few days later saying I was related to Manuel the 1st saying he needs to take a knee and kiss the ring next time he see's me stuff like that.  I thought he was pulling my leg and decided to look into it and prove him wrong.

The more I looked into it the more it made sense. King Manuals 1 son  Luís Duke of Beja of Portugal never married Violante Gomez or at least there is no record of it. She was labelled a Converso from Jewish to Christianity after the Christian Reconquista  of Spain. as a result their children were considered illegitimate. The church was reluctant to marry a Converso or baptize a converso child. The name "Gomez de Portugal". comes from Violante Gomez, and the de Portugal part comes from Luis Duke of Beja of Portugal. 

This is link to one of the sources I found.

  https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/mcdonald-family-site/I509485.php

Thanks

David M.

I have never seen the evidence as to who his father is.   Though I did see that he descended from a Jewish woman.  The thing is that when I see the posts that say his father was the king they list someone that wasn’t his mother. 

Rick A. Ricci

After reading your post I could not see a link to my paternal Munoz line. 

One name that I noticed was Ana Josefa Gómez de Portugal. 

One of the founders of Lagos De Moreno was man named Juan Gomes de Portugal or Capitan Juan Gomes de Portugal. He was married to Cathalina LOPEZ de la MAdrid de la Cuadra y de NAVA Lopez.

They got married about 1558 at Spain.

Juan was the illegitimate grandson of Manuel1st king of Portugal. Juan had up to 17 children. 

When I see the name ending with Gomez de Portugal in the Lagos de Moreno area I assume there is a link to Capitan Juan and his link to royalty.

Good luck on your hunt!

David M.

Dear Manny, 

Thank you for these insights !

I am curious about how you were able to confirm that Francisca de Ortega was indeed the daughter of Luis Maldonado (himself the son of Luis Maldonado and Inés Sánchez de Ortega). Based on your previous comments on the topic (above), I had understood that we were still uncertain which Luis Maldonado was her father. How did you arrive to this conclusion ?

Kind regards

Tristán Díaz de León

Dear all,

I have identified a new document regarding Juan Díaz de León which is dated 1603 : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-SSZT?view=fullText&keywords=Juan%20D%C3%ADaz%20de%20Le%C3%B3n&lang=fr&groupId=

I'm afraid I can't read it but it seems that it concerns Francisca de Ortega as well. Could someone try to understand the topic of this document ? 

Tristan Díaz de León

I am also related to Juan Diaz de Leon and his daughter Maria Ortega. I've been doing work in San Luis Potosi and Guanajuato. I've noticed the city of San Luis Potosi in San Luis Potosi has been people from Sierra de Pinos.

Great work.

Rose Gonzales-Hardy

Hola primos!

Amazing the amount of work all of you have put in and I have learned so much as far as the lineage but I would like to learn more as to who these people are. I descend from Juan Diaz de Leon "El Viejo" and his son "El Mozo", and then  Andres DDL. I was wondering if anyone had information as to what their Juan's role was in regards to Pinos? I know his name is on the map in 1603 and owned some mines, but is there any other info anyone else can share? 

Thank you so much!

Rosendo Gutierrez-Diaz

Hello Manny,

When I was a kid, family members would say that Vikki Carr was a distant cousin of ours. I did her family tree and found that she is repeatedlyrelated to my family as she has ancestors from all over Los Altos de Jalisco. I wanted to let you know that she also descends from Andres Diaz de Leon-Duron and Maria Estefania Carillo.

Vikki Carr was her stage name. Part of her father’s ancestral family was mainly from Los Altos de Jalisco, and the other part was mainly from the state of New Mexico. She is also is related to coach Tom Flores through her Altos de Jalisco ancestral roots and is related to quarterback Jim Plunkett through her New Mexico ancestral roots.

Rick A. Ricci

Hello everyone,

I have a small information that could be useful in the origins of Diaz de Leon family. As we all know now Juan Diaz de Leon, El viejo, was from the city of Ayamonte. While searching for his license to New Spain, i found a document called "Expediente de información y licencia de pasajero a indias de Isabel de León, criada del licenciado Alonso de Villalba, natural de Ayamonte, hija de Francisco Hernández Cataño e Isabel Díaz de León, a Charcas." The document is dated 1603 which is the same year as when Juan Diaz de Leon was registered in Pinos's map. I think this might be a lead on Juan Diaz de Leon's origins.

Tristan Diaz de Leon

Puedo decir que el año de su nacimiento esta alrededor de 1591 según su testamento fechado el 25 de agosto de 1655 en la ciudad de San Luis Potosí, dejo el siguiente fuente y link para su valoración:

"México, San Luis Potosí, registros varios, 1570-1882," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-958X-HHWT?cc=2040013&wc=MX… : 21 May 2014), Protocolos notariales 1655, vol 2 exp 22-27 > image 55 of 58; Archivo Histórico del Estado de San Luis Potosí (San Luis Potosí State Archives, San Luis, Potosí).

"México, San Luis Potosí, registros varios, 1570-1882," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-H6YR?cc=2040013&wc=MX… : 21 May 2014), Protocolos notariales 1655, vol 2 exp 22-27 > image 56 of 58; Archivo Histórico del Estado de San Luis Potosí (San Luis Potosí State Archives, San Luis, Potosí).

"México, San Luis Potosí, registros varios, 1570-1882," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org

Hello, Manny.

Glad to see your interest in San Luis Potosi where I was surprised to find several of my lines (Galvan, de la Cerda, Diaz Infante, Montanez and Marquez to name a few). Here's a link to a research paper that may help you. It covers SLP testaments from 1642 to 1671. It's a summary report and I believe only those persons who died are named. There's a Diaz de Leon. Don't know if he is your line.

From time to time I will add files to my Dropbox GENEALOGY folder. It will be a mishmash of drafts, finished papers, Family Group Sheets, handwritten notes and extractions and just stuff that may help others.

Mary Lou

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yop1j3tqornd0xh/AABnVNtOvuDJtcuW0Gk5vgBHa?or…

Manny,

This is great work. Juan Diaz de Leon is my ancestor too. I wish I knew something to add, but I dont. I was curious though about the witnesses and other property owners in 1604, Diego Camacho and Juliana de Sotomayor and if you think they're related to the Martin Camacho/Martn de Sotomayor family.

Danny C. Alonso

Obispo Francisco Antonio Lorenzana dejo una herencia a los hijos de una señora(ita).   Despues dijeron que se Los hijos de dejo a unos huerfanos.  Deacendientes de el se vinieron a Watsonville y Ventura California.  Yo conozco un descendiente que vive en Camarillo 

A new set, still in its box, may be sold at auction on eBay in January.  I don’t think it will be cheap.  

Hi Sandra, 
I bought mine from Portal de Archivos de Nueva España (https://panes.info/books). They are not cheap but can be really helpfull with certain last names, here is a list with the ones included https://panes.info/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Retonos-Index.pdf . 

Best regards

So, my understanding is that it's not so easy to acquire a complete set of Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia anymore. Hopefully you're successful.

In the mean time, try locating a set at a nearby library (Worldcat).

Also, Retoños was first published about 15 years ago or so, and since then numerous researchers here on Nuestros Ranchos, on Ancestry, on FamilySearch and on Wikitree have documented many of the families that were written about by Mariano González-Leal and his collaborators. Consider posting your brick wall ancestors here, or your questions, and I am positive the amazing Nuestros Ranchos community will gladly lend a hand.

Lots of luck to you.

I have seen "MA" used for mostly Maria, but also used for Mariana when transferred probably by LDS.

I also found one that was transcribed to Maxima, the MA may have looked like an MX on that one, but it turned out to be Mariana with cross referencing.

Hello Emilie.

Bernardo and Juana got married by church in "La Villa de Santa Rosalia" on Jan 09 1880:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-68PS-DCD

Bernardo (20). Parents: Juan J. Carmona and Manuela Reyes.

Juana (17). Parents: Anastasio Ocon and Ricarda Burrola.

Anastasio and Ricarda got married in the same place on Jan 13 1862:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-68PS-HD4

Anastasio (20). Parents: Pedro Ocon and Placida Muñoz.

Ricarda (16). Parents: Salome Burrola and Mauricia Morales.

Is there a link to the document you are citing you could provide? I'll gladly help with the names of Bernardo's grandparents.

I see that page was not "INDEXED" .... but anyway I added as a source to Miguel Espinoa individual page.

This match popped up...... it all seems to line up except Maria Ygnacia's Nomeli mother's name is Vega and not Fernandes?   Could that marriage record just be wrong and her mother's surname is really Vega???

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/merge/verify/984G-FX5/GQ1W-2ZQ

can you provide the link.... I found some info and this may be your family but I could not find that wedding record:    https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/984G-FX5

#2 and #3 are the same. The Mateo de Ruvalcaba signatures from both documents below match.

 11 Apr 1678. Jose Delgadillo (Diego Delgadillo & Petrona de Islas) sobrino de Mateo de Ruvalcaba. 

 10 Feb 1686. Mateo de Ruvalcaba vecino y casado, tío de la pretensa Leonor de Ortiz (Juan de Ruvalcaba & Catalina de Sena).

México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TH55-L?cc=1804458&wc=3P9N-DP8%3A147337401%2C147337402%2C154094601 : 21 May 2014), Nochistlán > Nochistlán > Información matrimonial 1677-1707 > image 64 of 662; paróquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic Church parishes, Zacatecas).

México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-THR6-Z?cc=1804458&wc=3P9N-DP8%3A147337401%2C147337402%2C154094601 : 21 May 2014), Nochistlán > Nochistlán > Información matrimonial 1677-1707 > image 392 of 662; paróquias Católicas

"he could easily have married Leonor de Lizardi after the death of his first wife (this timeline would also allow Leonor de Lizardi to be the same who was married to Juan de Sepulveda)." 

On 3 Nov 1660 in Mexticacan, the padrinos Antonio de Ruvalcaba y Josefa de Sepulveda su e…nada (?). Not sure what that word is, but likely some relationship meaning the same Leonor de Lizalde married Juan de Sepulveda and then married Antonio de Ruvalcaba.

México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-G1NG-4?cc=1804458&wc=3P98-… : 13 December 2021), Nochistlán > Nochistlán > Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1627-1686 > image 159 of 565; paróquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic Church parishes, Zacatecas).

All,

One last link for Matheo in the Libros de Gobierno records.   This one dated 12 May 1677. 

This one is in Teocaltiche, and mentions Antonio Robalcava.  Also involving caballerias within the jurisdiction of Teocaltiche.

Zacatecas Libros de Govierno Link 4

Lee

Moco(a) means son/daughter or grandson/granddaughter of someone of the same name right?

So Juana de Ruvalcaba, daughter of Mateo de Rucalcaba and Catalina Cortes (de Moscoso y Sandoval), could be named after her grandmother Juana de Isla (Lozano) wife of Antonio de Ruvalcaba.

 México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TT19?cc=1804458&wc=MC7X-DM9%3A147337401%2C147337402%2C153551201 : 21 May 2014), Nochistlán > Nochistlán > Entierros 1667-1738 > image 45 of 400; parroquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic Church parishes, Zacatecas).

Matheo Rubalcava is again mentioned in the Zacatecas Libros de Gobierno records on 23 May 1676. Likely the same Matheo Rubalcava mentioned in the 1671 record that was posted earlier. He is still involved in Goverment affairs. No mention of Juan Rubalcava in this record, and this record mentions only Nochistlan, which is under Juchipila Jurisidiction. Jose Lopez Ramirez and Lazaro Guerrero are also mentioned.  Not sure what this record is about, but it does mention a cofradia and also indicates that Matheo is still a presence in this area in 1676.

Zacatecas Libros de Govierno Link 2

Again mentioned in 3 October 1676 records which involved 4 caballerias, I believe in Mexticacan, and noted in Juchipila Jurisdication. Bernadino de Yslas is also mentioned.

Zacatecas Libros de Govierno Link 3

Lee

Manny,

Nice summation of the many older Matheo's.   The link below is from the 1671 Zacatacas Libros de Gobierno (via Family Search). This Matheo is not the one who died before July of 1670, as this image (87 of 591) notes Matheo and Juan Rubalcava involved in this transaction when dated on 14 May 1671. It appears they were involved in some caballerias in Nochistlan and/or Aguascalientes jurisdictions.  Not sure how much help this is, since no genealogical information can be ascertained, but it does provide locations as to where they were located in the 1670's.  To be living in 1671 and in positions of authority, these two Rubalcava's were likely older, which lines up with those folks that have been so nicely summed up by you.  Not sure which one it could be, but could add more supporting info.

Zacatecas Libros de Gobierno Link

Lee

What many have probably already noticed, but I am not sure whether anyone has stated is that close relatives tend to be listed close together in confirmations, and since close relatives often times live close to each other they are also listed next to each other in padrones.

My guess is that the Magdalena Lozano viuda and the Antonio de Ruvalcaba viudo are in-laws. 

1681 Teocaltiche padrones

• Marcos Yanez
• Magdalena Lozano su mujer
• Magdalena Lozano viuda

• Sebastian de Campos mestizo
• …….

• Antonio de Ruvalcaba viudo
• Juan de Ruvalcaba mestizo 

Thank you Manny for great work! 

Rick A. Ricci

Hello Joseph,

I sent you an email message with my new email, and an explanation of the issues with the old email.   Please read it and contact me when you can.

Rick A. Ricci

Hello Joseph,

I sent you an email message with my new email, and an explanation of the issues with the old email.   Please read it and contact me when you can.

Rick A. Ricci

According to my research, which could be faulty, Francisca Flores de la Torre was my 10th ggaunt (Her sister, Angela, was my 10th gg.), but she was married to Juan Cristóbal Ramírez de la Campaña.

Parents

Capitán Diego Fuentes Flores y Pérez de la Torre 1539-1616

Angela María Pacheco Rodríguez y Temiño de Velasco y Carbajal 1542--

Spouse

Juan Cristóbal Ramírez de la Campaña 1555-

Sanchez-Castellanos

Claudia check this https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15265-26849-50?cc=1410092&wc…

It looks like Hernando de Haro and Francisca Morillo

Claudia,
I'm not sure it's the same Hernando b:abt 1610, but I have him in my tree as a brother to Lorenzo de Miramontes y Haro (my 8th GGF). They were sons of Hernando de Haro Miramontes and Cecilia Lopez, m:abt 1629. The elder Hernando was the son of Juan Miramontes and Maria Haro y Saucedo.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NLZH-L4Q

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SYVJ-3DS

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NLZH-M74

Cecilia Lopez remarried on 25Oct1644 to Felipe Diaz de Santiago in Tlaltenango, Zacatacas.

Hope this was of some help.
Roy

Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez

Caludia, cuando se casan Rodrigo Sanchez Castellanos de Rodas, hijo de Manuel Sanchez Castellanos de Haro y Josefa de Rodas el 1 de junio de 1684 (Dispensa matrimonial pagina 112 y Juana de Luna de Haro con 4to grado de consanguinidad, ponen a Tomasina de Haro (Tomasina de Saucedo) como prima hermana de Hernando de Haro.

Segun recuerdo Hernando de Haro era hijo de Juan de Miramontes y Maria de Haro y Saucedo, lo cual me parece extraño, ya que tuvo que haber otra mujer con apellidos Haro y Saucedo casada con un hermano de Juan de Miramontes.

He leido paginas donde incluso ponen a Heranando de Haro como hermano de Tomasina, pero la dispensa los pone como primos. No se que opinen? Si hay alguien que haya resuelto el misterio favor de decirnoslo.

Como siempre, muchas gracias por compartir estas valiosas y detalladas informaciones.

Anexo a la petición de Domingo de Onís y Vela se encuentra la información de limpieza de su esposa María Mancina que se hizo en el pueblo de Tlaltenango entre los meses de marzo y julio de 1685, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-WSM9-3?cat=31792&….

Los testigos presentados fueron:

1. El capitán Lucas Rubio Abarca, español, vecino del pueblo de Tlaltenango, de 55 años de edad poco más o menos.
2. Luis de Luna, español, vecino y natural [haber nacido] del partido de Tlaltenango, de 69 años de edad.
3. Bartolomé de Luna, español, vecino y natural del partido de Tlaltenango, de 55 años de edad poco más o menos.
4. Antonio de la O, español, vecino y natural del pueblo de Tlaltenango, de 70 años de edad.
5. Juan de Moreira, mulato libre, vecino de la jurisdicción de Tlaltenango y natural del pueblo de Tlaltenango, de 48 años de edad. Compadre de Jerónimo de Mancina y Magdalena de Rivera “…por

Sergio, muchas gracias por compartir tus hallazgos.

La ciudad de Utre en Génova es conocida hoy como Voltri (Vötri o Ütri en la lengua ligur).

• Voltri - Wikipedia (es)

Yes Huejucar and Guejucar is the same place. It is a valley where Calvillo, Ojocaliente and Huanusco make up. This is an area of expertise for me. My mother's family was primarily from Calvillo (Huejucar), Aguascalientes and Mexico City.

Chema

Huejucar is a twon in Jalisco, not in Zacatecas, is near to Colotlan and Jerez.

If one is labeleled as español and the other mestizo, and they are labeled correctly, then they are most likely half - siblings   The probability is higher of finding first  a record naming the parents of Nicolasa Vásquez (d. bef1735) - Espanola,    And then use his parents as a focal point to find his half siblings Melchora de los Reyes parents 

Good luck in your research,

Rick A. Ricci

Dispensa for Marcos de Espitia and Anastasia de Quesada: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6X9P-5P

There is an earlier NR thread about this family. Some of the information is dated and has been proven incorrect, but there's some interesting info about Maria Rubio's possible origins: https://nuestrosranchos.org/node/22015

According to one of the contributors, Pedro Hernandez cc Maria Rubio were among the founders of Lagos de Moreno. This might help support that: on 3 Feb 1569, a Pedro Hernandez was granted a titulo y merced de un sitio de estancia para ganado mayor and a caballeria de tierra in the jurisdiction of Lagos. I don’t know if it’s the same man: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-J7ND-X?view=explo…

You might already have this, their son, Lic. Cristobal Gutierrez, founded a capellania in July 1621: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DGJH-Y?i=259&wc=3JWY-T…

It includes the distribution of the estate of Pedro Hernandez to his heirs, naming the entire family group, including spouses of those already married (Catalina Rubio cc Luis Lopez

Rick, Edward's no. 12 is my 8th great-grandfather :) Btw, what is the source for saying he was born in Chalco? 

Saludos Edward y Leonardo,

Saludos Leonardo y Edward,

After reading the nobilario, I had more questions in my mind that led me back to Leonardo’s and Edward’s questions regarding the Osorio ancestry, so I went back to my notes and did more research.   I had originally told Edward that I believed that the Rojano/Riojano surname came from a “de Rojas” ancestry in our Osorio line.  But when I went back to look at out ancestral line with Maria Fernandez de Villalobos as Pedro Alvarez de Osorio’s wife I couldn’t find the Rojas line.   Then Leonardo questioned the ancestry.  Those thoughts were lingering as a cloud as I read the nobilario.  So yes the line starts with Juan Alvarez Osorio and his wife Aldonza de Guzman, but the nobilario doesn’t mention the wives names of Pedro Alvarez Osorio and Alvar Perez Osorio.   So I did more research which is hard on this family because there were so many Rodrigo, Alvaro, and Pedro Osorios in the family.  And it turns out that I needed to merge some of

Hello Edward,

Martin Lopez Osorio’s family tree goes much farther in records according to an old book I read many years ago.  The book states the the lineage can be found in another book that is at the Smithsonian Library.   One day I will make it out there and look for that book.  

You and I are fifth cousins.  

Rick A. Ricci

Dear Ana,

You are not the only one looking for a reply button.   First  I want to answer your questions.    

(1)  My book is titled my genes2000     

 (2) The reference that I cite is "Napoli e Islam: storie de musulman schiava e rinnegati in eta moderna" by Giuliana Boccadano.
This book provides the information on when Porzia is baptized and that she belongs to Vincenzo Lomellini. The book also clarifies that "Porzia musulmana convertita al cristianesimo."  

(3) I think that you should focus on the Lomellini Spinola line as the ancestry of Carlo Lomelin (Carlos Lomellini) and Luis Lomelin (Luciano Lomellini).

(4) there were many “Lomellini family” documents that were found in the Library of an estate.   They were put up for sale for a tremendous amount of money many years ago.  I don’t know if they were sold or donated, but I did have access to them many years ago.

What I can say for certain is that I have narrowed it down to these two cousins Named Carlo Lomellini.    One Carlo Lomellini

Bear with me I am not used to the new format yet.  I didn't see a reply button so I am hope all is well. Quick question Rick what is the name of your book regarding the Lomellini family? We descend many times from that family line. Also where did you find Portzia's info on her back story? 

Also do we not have a mother for Vincenzo di Lomellini yet? I didn't see it in the list. I did read some interesting information regarding the family and the paintings in the Prado , Scottish etc. Museums. Facninating family. I too think there is a connection with the Lomellini and the Lomelinos.  In fact I think I know where the Lomelinos ended up in Italy and their Palace still stands but is under threat currently. I shudder to think what would happen to the building, it SHOULD be a UNESCO heritage site given the over 1000 year history and priceless wall paintings and frescos. 

In the house there might even be more documents about the family in it, yeah, everything was just left as is, so it is just

Brothers Luciano Lomellini  (Luis  Lomelin)  and Carlo Lomellini Spinola (Carlo Lomelin) 

1. Vassallo da Lumello, Consul de Genoa 

2. Ansaldo Lomellini 

3 Simone Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Giulia 

4. Pietrino Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Tomasina 

5. Leonello Lomellini + Catarina 

6. Napoleone Lomellini + Teodora di Negro di Giorgio. [these are also Carlo's ancestors] they are 4th cousins 

7. Goffredo Lomellini 

8. Luciano Lomellini + Pometta Spinola 

9. Goffredo Lomellini + 2nd wife Novella Cicala 

10. Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini + Catarina Spinola 

Parents of 

11. Luciano Lomellini Spinola   (AKA Luis Lomelin)     And Carlo Lomellini Spinola (Carlos Lomelin)

Vasallo de Lumello picked up his surname from where he lived before becoming consul in Genoa. His children were the first to be called Lomellini. His first name came from his father’s surname. His father’s legitimate sons carried the Vasallo surname and they lived in Milan which was a rival city-state to Genoa. There did not it seem to be much

Thank you Rick,

This is quite interesting, in particular the case of the -former- slave Porzia. Thank you for clearing this. I have seen how some people made up a last name name and background for Porzia. Perhaps they are ashamed to descend from a slave. I am not and I hope more studies focus on her, I find her marriage with Vicenzo most interesting.

Best regards,

Erik

Lomellini. The first with this surname to Carlo Lomelin

1)-Vasallo da Lumello, Console di Genova - Born: 1160 in Lombardia, Italia. - Residence: in Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1198 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia. Vasallo descends two Vasallo Vasallo so he isn’t the first to have it as a first name. His half-siblings that are legitimate carry the Vasallo surname.

2)-Ansaldo da Lumello - Died: Aft. 1248 in Genova, Italia

3)- Simone da Lumello Died: 1253 in Genova, Italia
........... +Giulia - Born: in Genova, Italia

4)-Oberto da Lumello- Died: Aft. 1292 in Genova, Italia
........... +Angela- Born: in Genova, Italia

5)- Benedetto Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia
............ +Gioffredina- Born: in Genova, Italia

6)-Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia-
............. +Orietta- Born: in Genova

7)- Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia--
..............+ Franca (Francesca) Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia- Father: Niccolo Lomellini Mother: Luchina Lercari

8)-

Steven Francisco Hernández organized the tree as follows, however I did make a few additions to Vincenzo Lomellini and Porzia’s information. The reason for the two lines is that Carlo descends from two branches of the Lomellini family. The first branch is through Francesca Lomellini, and the second branch is through her husband Tobia Lomellini.

1 Vasallo da Lumello, Console di Genova - Born: 1150 - 1160 in Lombardia, Italia. - Residence: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1198 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia. Vasallo is named after his paternal grandfather.
. 2 Ansaldo da Lumello - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1248 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
..... 3 Simone da Lumello Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: 1253 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
........... +Giulia - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia - Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-
........ 4 Pietrino da Lumello

The thread on the latest on Carlo Lomelin’s ancestry at : http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/20549,

In this thread you will find that The father of Carlo Lomellini, Vicenzo Lomellini, is the leader of the Lomellini/Marini business group that were merchants that also were slave traders. This is the information that had been passed down by Carlo Lomelin’s descendants in Los Altos de Jalisco for over four hundred years. The research led to the information that Capitan Luis Marin, that is married to a relative of the second wife of Hernan Cortez, is a cousin of Carlo Lomelini as Capitan Luis Marin descends from Vicenzo’s aunt, sister of Vicenzo’s father.

Vicenzo Lomellini does not use the name Paolo Vicenzo Lomellini. The name Paolo Vicenzo Lomellini is the name of the father of Luciano Lomelin Spinola. Luciano’s family was also in Castilla and involved in business with Vicenzo. The Lomellini/Marini family had part of the business based in San Lucar de Barrameda.

Steven

Earlier In this thread I incorrectly posted

“ Francisco de la Cueva y "María Lomelín hija de Luis Lomelin y Maria del Olmos".

But this Maria is not their daughter.. The Maria Lomelin that is married to Francisco De la Cueva is their great granddaughter. I posted the correct lineage in the thread on my Corea Peralta ancestry.

Another mistake that I wrote in this thread was that Paolo Vicenzo Lomelini was richer than his cousin Vicenzo Lomelin, but that was not true. Vicenzo Lomellini was the leader of the Lomelini and Marin clan in Castilla. This business group included Vicenzo’s aunt who is also my ancestor as she the grandmother or great grandmother of my ancestor Conquistador Luis Marin.

Even though Paolo Vicenzo Lomelin and Vicenzo Lomelin were only third cousins, they held a much closer business relationship and Vicenzo was the one in charge. This family was in involved in the slave trade so the stories we heard about Carlo Lomelini’s family being slave traders is true

Hi Rick,

It's not by much but here it is:

Esther (me)
AC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 7 cM across 1 segments
OC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 7 cM across 1 segments
Patricia Romo
Predicted relationship: 4th–6th Cousin
Shared DNA: 25 cM across 3 segments

My grandmother - Socorro Fuentes Cervantes
AC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 11 cM across 4 segments
OC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 10 cM across 3 segments
Patricia Romo
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 15 cM across 1 segments

My mother - Josefina Lopez Fuentes
AC
Predicted relationship: 4th–6th Cousin
Shared DNA: 20 cM across 3 segments
OC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 20 cM across 3 segments
Patricia Romo
Predicted relationship: 4th–6th Cousin
Shared DNA: 24 cM across 3 segments

My dad - Roberto Hernandez Ramirez
Patricia Romo
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 11 cM across 1 segments

My mother’s dna analysis from AncestryDNA shows her to be 18% Italian. Both her parents are from Los Altos De Jalisco. My mother has many Romo De Vivar, Perez-franco(Perestrello), Marin(i) and Lomelin(i) ancestral lines. I believe that these four ancestral lines are the ones that contribute to the majority of her 18% Italian results

While researching my Lomelini ancestors, my work merged with the research that I was doing on a few other Genoese ancestral lines that I was working on. I did not complete my book on my Lomellini ancestors because I wanted to see if I could find DNA evidence by compiling a reference line of descent that stayed in Genoa. Yesterday I attempted to contact, through email, italian descendants of siblings of the ancestors that I have been studying in order set up a dna analysis of their relationships to the the Lomellini descendants in Nueva Galicia. I hope to add these dna comparisons to my book.

Rick A. Ricci
Mygenes2000

I believe Rodrigo de Carbajal and Juana Lomelin also had a daughter named Josefa de Carbajal. She was married to Jose Leal de Ayala. They had a daughter named Maria Leal de Ayala Carvajal and she was married to Augustin Gomez de Mendoza. I am descended from her through this line.

Though we can not assume anything yet regarding the origins of Carlo e Luigi Lomellini -we do not even know how they are related-, here is an article about a member of the Lomellini lineage:

http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/leonardo-lomellini_(Dizionario_Biog…

Here is what I consider of genealogical interest:

Leonardo Lomellini born ca. 1510, son of Girolamo di Tobia and Brigida di Pier Francesco Lomellini. His wife was Bianca Grimaldi Oliva di Gerolamo. He had 5 daughters: Faustina, Brigida, Maria, Geronima, Maddalena and only 1 son: Giacomo who died in 1594 leaving no descendants.
The article also mentions his business ventures in Spain. He died ca. 1581.

There is another -the same?- Leonardo Lomellini in New Spain who had a commercial contract with Hernán Cortés in 1542. Perhaps Carlos and Luigi are related.

The article also mentions his patrimony valued at 18.750 lires and compares it to the greater patrimony of two other Lomellini: Bartolomeo Lomellini and Augusto

It came to my attention two years ago that the Lomelín who in reality are the Lomelini family were one of the 7 principal houses of Genoa. I remember once, even a good colleague, D. Mariano González Leal reported certain documents that existed, but I am no professional in the italian language. I have found some using google books and other sources. Look up "Lomelini" in the search engine under books, you will find lots of genealogical related items in italian especially in the middle ages. One thing is certain our ancestors Carlo Lomelini and Luigi Lomelini were natives of Genoa and arrived in New Spain. Carlo settled in Nochistlán and I believe if I recall correctly Luigi made his way to Hidalgo. I hope this helps in some way. There truly is so much yet to be discovered about our ancestors and lineages. Documents to be read, analyzed, transcripted, published, preserved, etc.
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino

Gracias por la respuesta, es una verdadera pena que el censo ya no esté disponible porque era una herramienta extraordinaria para iniciar investigaciones genealógicas.

It's not just the 1930 census. Images of civil and parochial records from about the 1920s and later are also not available. I don't know why, but I suspect it's very likely related to privacy protection legislation that passed in Mexico earlier this year.

• Ley Federal de Protección de Datos Personales en Posesión de los Particulares
• Ley General de Protección de Datos Personales en Posesión de Sujetos Obligados

Hello Travis,

I took another look at Bartolome de Mesquita.  His wife Lucia Torres doesn’t show any Silva ancestry.  In looking for Bartolome de Mesquita’s ancestry. I would first search his name with a mother surnamed Silva.   Next I would replace the Mesquita with Silva and look for a Bartolome Silva.   Mesquita may be a location from where he was from and took it as a surname replacing Silva.  Amesquita is a variation of Mesquita so also search with that spelling.  

Good luck in your research,

Rick A. Ricci

I found the post that I wrote that I referenced but it focused on surnames changes according to location. Here it is:

“Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) - Mon, 2016-05-30 20:47 | Permalink

Change in surnames according to location given

Comment

Someone asked me to explain the change in surnames in the Ochoa-Garibay pedigree.

If someone here in West Los Angeles asked where I live I would say Mar Vista. If I was in Northern California I would answer Los Angeles. if I was in another state, let's say a state clear across the country on the eastern coast, I would answer California. If I was in another country, I would answer the United States of America. This is how the surname sometimes changed from one generation to the next for Spaniards in the 15th and 16th centuries. The surnames didn't always change permanently. This was a naming pattern in these basque provinces. Some families kept their same surname even if they moved around. Some other families changed their surname often. In some

Hi Dana, 

I'm going through a similar dilemma and settled on a similar solution. Thanks for your perspective. 

Everything is standardized today compared to the past so it's taken me a long time to get my mind around this. Even relatives who recently lived in Mexico don't understand naming customs from the colonial period.

Here's a question - not just for you - but for anyone who can answer: what about those with two completely different names?

Example: Ignacío (b c1630) son of Bartolomé de Mesquita and Luisa de Torres, was obviously named after someone, probably a relative, named Ignacío de Silva. So we have some records naming him Ignacío de Silva and others referring to him as Ignacío de Mesquita.

Thank you, 

Travis

Per the marriage document of Eusebia Maria Lopez de Lara dated 1746 her first husband, Joseph Padilla, had been dead for 2 years and that former husband is buried at the church where she is getting married as stated therein.  

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VRSD-H5?lang=en&i=498

Note that per her marriage to Joseph Padilla he was from Queretaro.  https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/sources/GKRM-TB7

Calle 44 Sector Hidalgo

David,

Up until the 1980's - 1990's, Guadalajara was divided into four sectors named Hidalgo, Juárez, Libertad and Reforma. Guadalajara is currently divided into 7 zones. Similarly Calle 44 was probably renamed since I was not able to find it in the current map of Guadalajara.

Best regards,

Austin Pérez