Lope Ruiz de Esparza 'el menor' is the 3rd cousin to St. Francisco Javier de Jasso

Lope Ruiz de Esparza 'el Menor' is the 3rd cousin of St. Francisco Javier de Jasso

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Comment

I just joined Nuestros Ranchos in April 2025 with hopes of finding more about the Esparza family that originated in Pamplona, Spain, among other challenges. I ran into Nuestros Ranchos while searching for documentation that verifies what is posted on Family Search. I see that these posts are from 2016 and am wondering whether the book mentioned by Rick A. Ricci has been published. If nothing else, the posts here have given me new resources to investigate. I'm happy to share anything new that I might discover, but there's so much here, I don't know whether I'll find more than what's already been shared.  

My tree created using Family Search is in my folder is at  https://nuestrosranchos.org/lambchop48, but the names and dates, especially in the Esparza branch, seem to change every time I look! My goal is to be able to find and use source document with correct dates, so the mess can be unraveled. 

Comment

I have seen numerous timelines on Maria Diaz de Eguinoa that don't make sense now that I have more information on the relationship. I believe that one reason that people have not been able to find more information on her is because they have been looking in the wrong places and wrong dates for her. Unfortunately, the records that should have more information on her are not digitized so a trip to Spain would be necessary to see these records.

A lawsuit from Pedro Ruiz de Esparza against his father clearly identified Lope el menor as his half brother. He files a lawsuit claiming that his father gave Lope el menor assets that had already been given to Pedro. This lawsuit does not mention Andres.

The brother, Andres, that came to the Americas before Lope is not a son of Maria Diaz de Eguinoa. Lope el menor does have a younger full brother that works for their half brother Pedro Ruiz de Esparza. So Lope Ruiz de Esparza "el viejo" had at least four sons.

Source: mygenes2000, Rick A

Comment

Hola a todos:

Estuve buscando el apellido Eguinoa en distintas fuentes sin suerte, pero el de Eguino o Eguiño si lo encontré:

Es patronímico de una pequeña población cerca de Vitoria-Gasteiz que actualmente se llama Egino y pertenece a Álava.

La familia Eguino (algunas veces llamada Eguiño) era una familia de contadores al servicio del Rey Carlos I. Posteriormente administraron las empresas marítimas de la corona. Hay multitud de expedientes en el portal pares buscando la palabra Eguino, pudiendo dividirla por siglos ya que son varios los personajes de dicha familia.

El apellido Diez de Eguino no lo he encontrado como tal.

Saludos

Marcelina

Comment

Hola Marcelina,
Va ser dificil seguir la linea de Los Diaz de Eguinoa por que era familia de conversos.

Gracias por la informacíon,

Ricardo

Comment

The changes in time line include Lope Ruiz de Esparza el viejo's date of birth who we now now was born in 1519 as he is fifteen years old going on 16 in 1535.

We now know Sancho Ruiz de Esparzas grandfather but do not have Sancho's father's name, but because of his education and career path we can state that he has a much higher probability of being the son of a certain brother. Sancho has a brother named Johan de Esparza.

Sancho Ruiz de Esparza. b Abt 1355 died before 1440 his wife dies in 1440 and she identified as a widow in her death record.
1.1) Sister Cathalina Ruiz de Esparza y Zariquiegu b. circa 1395 m. 18/April/1413 (daughter of Sancho, ancestor of St Francis Xavier aka San Francisco Javier de Jasso. The 1413 marriage date is the correct date.

1.2). Sister Juana Ruiz de Esparza (daughter of Sancho)

1.3). Ximon (Simon) Ruiz de Esparza y Zariquiegui born circa 1415 d. Before March1490 (son of Sancho)

1.2.1) Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Huici b. Abt 1467 (son of Simon) (two

Comment

Lope Ruiz de Esparza (el mayor or el viejo) abogado de las Audiencias Reales, señor de los palacios de Esparza (Galar) y Zariquiegui vecino de Pamplona tuvo por lo menos tres hijos y una hija. Tambien tuvo por lo menos tres mujeres (creo que por lo menos dos de las relatiónes resultaron en matrimonios). El todavia estaba vivo en Diciembre de 1597. No se si cada hijo tuvo diferente madre. Todavia no he leido la Prueba de Hidaguia, pero creo que este documento alamejor tiene mas informacíon que nos dira si Andres y Lope tuvieron diferentes
madres. Pedro si es hijo de diferente madre.

Lope Ruiz de Esparza (el mayor or el viejo) abogado de las Audiencias Reales, señor de los palacios de Esparza (Galar) y Zariquiegui vecino de Pamplona born circa 1513 had at least three sons and one daughter. He also had at least three relationships/marriages as three woman have been identified as his "mujer". There is a strong possibly that at least two of the relationships ended in marriage. Lope is

Comment

The Navarra archives has indexed some of their records - you can search the archives at www.navarra.es

If you search for "Ruiz de Esparza" (use the quotation marks for an exact search), you will get 116 document summaries. The documents themselves are not available for download. These are a few facts gleaned from the search

1535 - Lope Ruiz de Esparza y Espinosa (spouse and parents not named in this case)
1536 - Martin Ruiz de Esparza and Maria de Larrasaona, his wife
1537 - Maria de Larrasoana, wife of Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Huici
1558 - Lope Ruiz de Esparza, and Maria de Caparrosa, his wife, and Anton Marcilla de Caparrosa & Juana Cruzat, his wife, concerning a dowry (Maria's?)
1584 - Maria Ruiz de Esparza against Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Maria de Caparrosa, concerning a dowery (is Maria a daughter?)
1591 - Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Maria de Caparrosa, his wife
1595 - Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Isabel de Ascaraga, his wife
1595 - Pedro Ruiz de Esparza y Zariquiegui, heir of Lope

Comment

Dear George,

I had seen some of these records previously and that is how I found two "mujer de Lope Ruiz de Esparza."

Lope Ruiz de Esparza's wife Maria Capparrosa

Lope Ruiz de Esparza's wife, Isabel de Ascarraga y Leache, hija del licenciado Azcarraga, abogado de las Audiencias Reales, e Isabel de Leache

What I didn't have was Maria de Larrasoana, wife of Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Huici. This means that Martin was married twice as his first wife was surnamed Espinosa.

These records also identified that besides his three sons, Lope el Mayor, has at least one daughter, Maria Ruiz de Esparza. It is unclear if she is the same Maria Ruiz de Esparza that has multiple marriages. Only one marriage is a certainty right now in my records. He may have more children.

Thanks,
Rick A Ricci

Comment

Unfortunately, from the brief discription of the cases very little info is forth coming. what I did discover about the archive is that if a record has been digitized there will be an icon as part of the discription, but this is lacking on all the court cases.

George

Comment

It is unfortunate for us that we can't access these court cases right now. The summaries of these court cases have given us enough information, that when added to the information that we already possess, we can deduce that many of these court cases involve disputes over hereditary rights among distant cousins so the cases should contain family trees to show how these distant cousins are related.

We must redo the Ruiz de Esparza timeline, and not just because of the possibility of Cathalinas marriage date. Sancho Ruiz de Esparza was already working in an official capacity for the court on the sixth of December 1380. So far, this is the earliest record we have of him. I don't believe that he was working at five so we need to adjust his birthdate from 1375 to about 1360. This new birthdate for Sancho Ruiz de Esparza now allows an earlier birthdate for Cathalina Ruiz de Esparza so the disputed marriage dates are no longer a problem.

I researched the family tree of the other Cathatlina

Comment

Is the daughter Maria Ruiz de Esparza or Maria Ruiz de Estrada? I do not find a "Ruiz de Estrada" in the Navarra archive index. I find the following:

1564 - Juan de Lazcano y Maria Ruiz de Esparza, su mujer,
1568 - Juan de Lazcano, viudo de Maria Ruiz de Esparza,
1572 - Pedro, Isabel, Maria y Ana de Roncesvalles y Ruiz de Esparza, hijos y herederos de Miguel de Roncesvalles y Maria Ruiz de Esparza
1576 - Maria Ruiz de Esparza, viuda de Miguel de Roncesvalles
1576 - Maria Ruiz de Esparza, viuda y usufructuaria de Miguel de Roncesvalles,
1578 - Maria Ruiz de Esparza, viuda de Lopez de Lugo, oidor del Consejo Real, y mujer de Sebastian de Ibero
1579 - Lope Ruiz de Esparza, vecino de Pamplona, contra los acreedores de Pedro Lopez de Lugo, su yerno, ex oidor del Consejo Real, sobre recibir informacion relativa a pago de un censo por 1.500 ducados de la dote de Maria Ruiz de Esparza, su mujer.
1584 - Sebastian Ibero y Maria Ruiz de Esparza, su mujer
1597 - Maria Ruiz de Esparza, mujer de

Comment

Dear George,

Sorry for posting Estrada instead of Esparza. I have been working on both lines in the past month. I found new information on the Estradas and I have sometimes written Estrada when I meant Esparza in other posts also. I will post my new information on the Estradas soon. I'm still in shock at what I found on the Estrada. There is a big disagreement among genealogists on this Estrada line. I had studied both sides of the evidence, and I had decided that one side had provided primary evidence so I had sided with them. I recently found out that although it was considered primary evidence, the primary evidence was an attempt to hide an illegitimacy. It turns out that the other side was right all along and that the Estrada in question actually was the illegitimate son of a king.

There are three Maria Ruiz de Esparza in the lawsuits you mentioned. The first Maria Ruiz de Esparza that is married to Juan Lozcano and she cannot be the same person as any of the other Maria Ruiz de

Comment

In re-reading this post, the death information for Lope Ruiz de Esparza needs to be corrected: he died on Aug 14, 1651, in Aguascalientes, and not Mexico, DF. See Aguascalientes Defunciones 1620-1752, film 299856, image 59.

His wife's death record is two pages later in the same film, where she appears an Ana de Gabai. That record also notes that she was the wife of Lope.

George Fulton

Comment

Thank you Marcelina. I like the euskera spelling better. also i think i may have found the relatives of juana zariquiegui or johanna Lopiz de Zariquiegui. theres a Johan Lopiz de Zariguiegui and a simon Lopiz de Zariquigui mentioned in the 1300s. i cant tell what it says about them but it doesnt look good. it looks like they might be criminals or something.

https://books.google.com/books?id=3LRXAAAAIAAJ&q=%22L%C3%B3piz+de+Zariq…

Danny C. Alonso

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I would like to thank everyone for their contributions to this research. You never know when the little piece that doesn't seem very important ends up being a vital piece.

Thanks again,
Rick A. Ricci

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Thanks, R.A. Ricci and others, for all the research and collaborations you have shared with all of us in the group. I have been doing my family research for years, but compared to many of you, I'm still a part time amateur genealogist. Thanks to another member, Austin Perez, I was able to connect my Ursua ancestors to the Ruiz de Esparza family, so this post caught my immediate attention. It will be wonderful to see your research published in the future. Are you waiting until you find who is the father and grandfather of Sancho Ruiz de Esparza before you publish your book?

Saludos

Steve in NC

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Dear Steve,

Thanks for your comments. I do have what I believe is a candidate for Sancho's father. He is the only candidate that I have at the moment. I have lots of information but need a little bit more as it would just be speculation if I name him right now. If he is the father then I already have a lot of information to finish a book. If he isn't the father then a lot of what I collected can't be used as it pertains to him.

I don't know when a book will be finished because I have to many projects going on at once. I tell myself I am going to focus on one family, but then in my research I find information that I was looking for to add to a different project. So I move from project to project, adding a piece here and there, moving forward with each project but not at the pace that I would like.

This Ruiz de Esparza line has been jumping for about a month, I keep adding little pieces. It helps that I can use info that I learned from my other projects to move this one

Comment

Dear Chris,

I don't want to post a timeline until we check on some information, and am able to provide proof of Sancho Ruiz de Esparza's father, I know that you anxiously await a timeline that makes sense. So am I. We are not wedded to the date 1403 given by a relatively recent article as the date of Cathalinas wedding.

Although the article discovered by George Fulton solved the conundrum of the multiple relationships by establishing that there are two Cathalina Ruiz de Esparzas, with different sets of parents, the article made three colossal errors in the conclusions it makes. I say three colossal mistakes because those are the ones that I found in the first reading. I identified these errors immediately to George.

Multiple readings and closer inspection will undoubtedly uncover more mistakes. So that is why, even though we found some valuable information, we may discard some of their information if it doesn't fit the facts that we have from PRIMARY SOURCES. Through Guillermina

In reply to by R.A.Ricci (not verified)

Comment

Hi Rick,

Yeah, I agree with the genealogy and I have seen occasional instances in my own tree where someone close to 60 marries someone close to 16, it just seems that all of these men would have to be much older than their wives which just seems somewhat unusual. But, it's definitely possible and now it appears probable.

Also, I agree with George that Vici is just an alternate spelling of Huici or vice-versa based on the use of the Latin "V". Although, I guess it could also be based on pronunciation. I'm not sure how 14th century basque pronounced the letter "V". It's possible it was pronounced similar to a "W" although I don't know. I do know that "V" had a different pronunciation in old Castilian, than it does today, so, it's possible 14th century Basque pronunciations were also completely different.

Also, in Nobiliario de Navarra: La casa de los Juániz en la villa de Muruzábal by Francisco Javier Pérez de Rada y Díaz Rubín, Marqués de Jaureguizar, it says, Otorgó escritura de

In reply to by iChristopher

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Thank you Chris for providing the revised date on the marriage. That is fantastic because it provides the timeline a little more wiggle room.

Thanks again,
Rick

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Mr. Ricci,

since Saint Francis is the 3rd cousin to Lope Ruiz de Esparza and Lope is my 12th great grandfather, does that mean that Saint Francis is my 15th cousin.

and i found this geneology for the esparzas that have sort of a timeline. it has Lope ruiz de Esparza born in 1569 and the other Lope born 1510 and Martin born 1480 and Simon born 1460:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/genealogia-mexico/LVKyd7-B9Ok

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

If your 12 great grandfather is a third cousin to someone that makes that person your third cousin 15 times removed.

The latest timeline that I was working on looks like this

1) Sancho Ruiz de Esparza. b Abt 1375
1.1) Daughter of Sancho : Sister Cathalina b.1398 m.1413

1.2) Son of Sancho: Simon Ruiz de Esparza yZariquiegui b.c. 1415 d. Before 1490

1.2.1) Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Huici b. Abt 1465 (son of Simon)
Martin is still alive in 1547
1.2.1.1) Lope Ruiz de Esparza y Espinosa "El viejo" B. Abt 1513 (son of Martin)
Three sons of el viejo
Andres Ruiz de Esparza b. 1541
Son Lope Ruiz de Esparza b. 1569 "el menor"
Son, (legitimate heir) Pedro Ruiz de Esparza, attorney, b. ?

In reply to by iChristopher

Comment

Dear Chris,

The information that you provided changing the wedding date from 1403 to 1413 provided the last tweak. The timeline is based on Guillerminas will, the marriage record of Cathalina, a lawsuit that Martin is involved in, the birthdate of Andres which pushes his father's date back and the date of the awarding of the coat of arms.

Thanks,

Rick

In reply to by R.A.Ricci (not verified)

Comment

Hi Rick,

I know you mentioned that you were interested in more than just the paternal lines and in the book Rincones de la historia de Navarra, by Florencio Idoate, it says:

Efectivamente, entre los cabezaleros del testamento de Johana Lópiz de Zariquiegui, aparecen su yerno Juan de Athaondo (hoy Atondo), oidor de la Cámara de Comptos y la esposa de éste, Catalina Ruiz de Esparza...

so, Juana de Zariquiegui is also known as Johana Lópiz de Zariquiegui which may be a better clue to her ancestry.

Chris

In reply to by iChristopher

Comment

Dear Chris,

That Juana de Zariquiegui is also known as Johana Lópiz de Zariquiegui is fantastic news. I am not sure if I posted this earlier, but I have confirmed that she was the mother of both Cathalina and Simon.

Every clue helps. Sometimes it is the smallest detail is the key that when added to other information. Many times something that doesn't seem that important turns out to be the glue that brings all the pieces together.

I already used this information to find her probable parents. I will get back to you with that information if it checks out.

Thanks again,
Rick

Comment

The indexes for the archives for the province of Navarra show that Martin and Lope, el Viejo, were involved in a number of lawsuits that are consistent with the later part of this timeline. Unfortunately, none of these documents are available digitally at this time. Hopefully they will become available like the PARES website.

I suspect at least a couple of these would add significant information to this family tree if we could get copies of them.

The number of documents is an indication of the status of the Ruiz de Esparza family.

The search page for the archive is http://www.navarra.es/home_es/Temas/Turismo+ocio+y+cultura/Archivos/Pro…

George Fulton

In reply to by iChristopher

Comment

Not to be argumentative, but we have two different marriage dates (1403 and 1413) in two different secondary sources, so which is correct? Without seeing the original documents it's hard to decide which is correct. In the source I found, La Familia de Atondo, available on the web, the document seems to be only described and not identified - the repository for it is also not identified. This is a less than ideal situation.

Until resolved, we need to note the discrepancy dates.

George

In reply to by gpf13

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Dear George,

You make a very valuable point. This last timeline only works with the 1413 wedding date. For the 1403 wedding date we would have to adjust the dates, but only for Sancho and Cathalina. I would leave all the other dates alone as they are based on primary sources.

I received new information last night in a late arrival by UPS, an email from a fellow genealogist who has done work complementary to this work, and two packages today, one in the morning, and another one about fifteen minutes ago. I have a lot to sift through but the pieces have come together. The copy of the hidalguia papers of Lope Ruiz de Esparza el menor are now in my possession.

The article that gave the 1403 date gave valuable information on solving the conundrum of the multiple relationships for Cathalina Ruiz de Esparza by showing that there are two Cathalina Ruiz de Esparza, but much of the other information in that article is erroneous. The author of that article did not know anything about

In reply to by R.A.Ricci (not verified)

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Mr. Ricci

on the Wikitree for Lope ruiz de esparsa here http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Ruiz_de_Esparza-4

it says this in Spanish from Mariano gonzalez Leal

En una Ejecutoria de Nobleza del siglo XVI, constante de ciento sesenta paginas en vitela miniada con dos escudos de armas, consta que el genearca novohispano de este linaje fue don Lope Ruiz de Esparza, originario de Pamplona, quien el 27 de Abril de 1595 compareció ante el Alcalde Ordinario de la ciudad de Méjico Rafael de Trejo Carbajal para acreditar su ascendencia: Era hijo de Lope Ruiz de Esparza y de doña Ana Diez de Eguinoa, ambos de Pamplona: el había litigado su hidalguía en Pamplona haciendo constar su señorío sobre los palacios de Esparza y Jáuregui, pleito vencido por sentencia de 23 de Noviembre de 1535. Se dejo constancia de que el segundo Lope, de veintiséis años de edad en 1595, era de estatura mediana, trapado, blanco de rostro, algo rojo de barba y cabello; los ojos tienen algún tanto metidos; sobre la ceja

Comment

Dear Danny,

Lope Ruiz de Esparza "el mayor", señor de los palacios de Esparza y Zariquiegui, vecino de Pamplona y residente en Esparza. He was Lord of a small town not far from Pamplona.

The place in Esparza sounds a lot more luxurious than it was. They actually didn't live there. They visited, but they lived in town, Pamplona. They had a really nice residence in Pamplona

I also have the coat of arms, " armas de Ruiz de Esparza"
"Son según ejectoría ganada por Lope Ruiz de Esparza "(el Viejo)", vecino de Pamplona, (I) en campo de oro un lobo atrevesado a un árbol de roble"

I will provide much more information in the book.

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Hola a todos:

El apellido Huici parece ser un toponímico del poblado al norte de Pamplona que actualmente se llama Uitzi.

En los archivos de Navarra se encuentra el siguiente pleito:

1539.- Catalina de Huici vecina de Huici contra Miguel de Huici, vecino de Huici sobre ejecución por 41 florines y 5 groses y el arriendo de la primicia de la iglesia de la Parroquia de Huici (Uitzi).

La familia Huici era propietaria de una gran ferrería, negociación siempre relacionada con la fabricación de armas.

En esos archivos de Navarra que pueden verse en línea hay varios expedientes de la familia Ruiz de Esparza bajo las etiquetas Ruiz de Esparza, Galar, Huici.

Uno que llamó mucho mi atención fue la siguiente:

1525.- Martín Ruiz de Esparza contra Juan de Labayen y María Lizasoain vecinos de Artacoz sobre pago de arriendo del palacio de Zariquegui y su pertenecido.

Un Juan de Labayen casado con Inés de Aguilar viuda del conquistador Gerónimo Flores aparece también en "Andariegos y pobladores

In reply to by Marcelina_Macias

Comment

Hola a todos de nuevo:

Les comparto el siguiente registro del Archivo General de Indias:

INDIFERENTE, 541, L.1, F. 40-V y 42-V
Real Provisión al tesorero general del Reino de Navarra sobre el pago de 250,000 maravedís de salario y quitación al Capitán Lope de Esparza.

Espero les sea útil.

Marcelina

Comment

To put this is some perspective, a maravedi was a small copper coin. There were 34 maravedi to the silver real. 1 silver peso is the 8 reals coin (so-called piece of eight or pillar dollar). Thus 250,000 maravedis becomes about 900 pesos.

The wikipedia article "Spanish real" has a good discussion of the coins. The mint in Mexico City was one of the world's major mints during the Spanish colonial period minting coins from silver from the mines of Zacatecas.

George Fulton

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Hola Ricardo:

Encontré una fuente que contiene varios archivos de la familia Eguinoa y cita a un Lope Ruiz de Eguinoa, es un portal de archivos de Álava que se llama www. araba.eus

Podrías asomarte para ver si reconoces a alguno de los personajes que se mencionan en esos expedientes, yo realmente no tenía conocimiento de estas familias.

Por otro lado tengo varios registros de una rama de los Gutierrez Bocanegra que tal vez te sirvan para tu investigación, te espero en el nodo Bocanegra brikwall si quieres que los transcriba allí.

Marcelina

In reply to by Marcelina_Macias

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Hola Marcelina,

No pude encontrar el archivo que mencionas. Por favor ayudame ver lo que encontraste.

Gracias,
Ricardo

In reply to by R.A.Ricci (not verified)

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Hola Ricardo:

Mi entrada fue en el buscador Google con las palabras "Lope Ruiz de Eguinoa" me mostró varias opciones. En la parte final de la primera página aparece:

Escritura de cesión de dos censos contra Juan García de Albéniz... en araba.eus

Puedes entrar en ese expediente y luego navegar en el portal araba, en su propio buscador puedes pone la palabra eguinoa y todas las demás que necesites sobre la región de Álava.

Por cierto Álava se dice Araba en euskera.

Suerte

Marcelina

Comment

I have found more information on Lope Ruiz de Esparza. I’m glad that I haven’t finished my book since I have some more interesting stories to add to the names. I also now disagree with Mariano Gonzalez Leals conclusion that some of the Ruiz de Esparza from Jalisco descended from a brother of his. They most likely descend from Lope Ruiz de Esparza

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Hola Rick, ¿cómo vas con tu investigación?, ¿para cuándo podemos esperar tu libro?

Saludos desde Coahuila, acá también hay descendientes de Lope.

Bernardo Menchaca

Comment

Hola Bernardo,

Voy a presentar una parte de mis estudios en un año aquí en California, Estados Unidos.

También he estudiado los Ruiz De Esparza y Romo descendientes en Coahuila aunque todavía no he tenido éxito con el árbol del futbolista Tony Romo.

Tom Flores quien fue jugador y entrenador de los malosos “Raiders” y gano campeonatos de fútbol Americano en Kansas City, Oakland y Los Angeles también desciende de Lope Ruiz De Esparza. Tom Flores tambien es mi pariente por lo Flores De la Torre, Padilla, Ochoa Garibay y otro apellidos. El ganó cuando era jugador en Kansas City, y de entrenador ganó en Oakland y Los Angeles.

Digo que una parte por que todos los libros no están completos. No se si voy a juntar todos los “R” (Romo, Rodriguez De Hijar”, Rodriguez, Ramirez, Reynoso, Renteria, Rueda) o si no más presentó lo Ruiz de Esparza.

Si me mandas tu árbol lo puedo juntar con lo que tengo de Coahuila y apuntar esa rama en mi libro.

Gracias,
Ricardo A. Ricci

Comment

Buenas tardes Ricardo,

Claro que sí, le voy a dar una revisada a mi árbol y así agregar más personas que sólo tengo en papel y te lo envío.

También traté de ligar a Tony Romo mas no me fue posible. Al director de cine y actor Emilio "El Indio" Fernández si lo tengo en el árbol.

Saludos,
Bernardo Menchaca

Comment

Hola Bernardo,

Si he trabajado sobre el árbol genealógico de Tony Romo. Pero quiero platicar con su familia antes de presentar los resultados. Yo he descubierto muchísimas generaciones.

Feliz Navidad,
Ricardo

In reply to by Marcelina_Macias

Comment

Hola Marcelina,

Isabel de Peralta y Goñi , viuda de Miguel de Javier, Señor de Javier era pariente de Enrique Mauleón, Lope Ruiz de Esparza es "criado" de Enrique Mauleón. Juan de Esparza se llama Juan Ruiz de Esparza y es hermano o hijo de Martin Ruiz de Esparza y Huici. Enrique Mauleón era pariente de los Jasso, y Lope Ruiz de Esparza era pariente de los Jasso, entonces tenian primos en comun aunque ellos no eran primos.

Gracias,
Ricardo A. Ricci

Comment

does the part that Marcelina wrote about mean that the name Vici and huici should realy be wrote Uitzi?

Danny C. Alonso

In reply to by dcalonso

Comment

Hola Danny:

La traducción está en los archivos oficiales de Navarra, no es propia

Huici: español

Uitzi: euskera

Además existe congruencia porque se trata de las mismas personas. Intenta entrar al Archivo de Navarra, es muy interesante.

Mauleón se encuentra cerca de Bayona.

Marcelina

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I forgot to add a GIGANTIC THANK YOU for the St. Francis College Library for deciding to toss out an antique book of theirs because no one had ever checked it out. I have the original library cards still inside showing that no one had ever bothered to check it out. You can also tell from the pages that the book most probably hasn't been opened in 94 years, the age of the book. The pages are very delicate and I will not open the spine all the way to make copies. But the book already has provided valuable information to the Ruiz de Esparza family tree.

I paid peanuts for this book. If it hadn't been available for purchase, I would of had to travel far to see if they could find the book in the few libraries that list it.

So let's hear for St. Francis Colege, Hooray Hooray!!!!

Rick

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Dear Chris,

That is great news Chris because I keep seeing her as Francisca in documents. I will go back and add Ana to my records.

Another genealogist that has done extensive research on this family sent me some of his work showing that she is indeed named Ana Francisca Garibai. Although some documents only have Francisca, the evidence is in that she is Ana Francisca.

I have too much information to hold onto, so I have decided to put my other projects away and focus on getting a book done on the Ruiz de Esparza. In my book I will provide the sources for the information. I am separating the Ruiz de Esparza/Gabai Moctezuma chapter from the rest of my giant book. Of course I have to have a couple of chapters on the Romo de Vivar thrown in. And yes, I did find new material yesterday that brought a lol of my research together. So a few months from now I will be addressing the folks here about where to get the book.

The genealogist that sent me the information on Ana Francisca

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Dear Chris,
You stated that you could see the timeline working out if Simon, Martin, and Lope el viejo all had their son when they were older. You forgot to add Sancho to that conversation. When I first tried to make a connection between Simon, Cathalina , and Sancho, I did not find Simon in the mix. Sancho was identified as Cathalina's father with no mention of Simon. But Simon then is positively identified in later records as being the brother of Cathalina and son of Sancho. This implies that Sancho was much older when Simon was born.

Here is the evidence:

First evidence). We have the documentation from Guillermina stating that Simon is the brother of Cathalina and that Martin is the son of Simon. She directs her ownership share to be transferred to Martin (her cousin). Simon is not mentioned in records that I first found when researching Catalina which points to Simon being much younger than her so Sancho was much older when Simon was born.

Second evidence). The transaction

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Dear Chris,
I am sorry if I contributed to the confusion about the dates. I just saw how I posted before 1495. What I meant was that I was disagreeing with the post that George had directed me to. George was the first to mention that he did not find the information on that post to be reliable. After we had come up with our tree, I asked him to direct me to the post in order to compare our information to what had been posted.That post had a birthdate as 1495 which is ridiculous so I wrote before 1495 as a statement that I was disagreeing with that posted date. I have not committed myself as to dates yet, though I have found evidence that the men were indeed much older when they were siring our line than the average man. And there is evidence, it's not just my calculations to make it work.

Sorry for the poor communication,
Rick A. Ricci

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I do want to point out a difference between what I am reporting and what Mariano Gonzalez Leal writes. He writes that the surname for Graciana is Vici, while I have her surname as Huici. Very small difference, and I include both spellings in my post.

Thanks,
Rick

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Rick

I have seen Huici as well in some Spanish archive indexed documents. I wonder if "Vici" may be due to how the handwriting has been read. For example, I have seen "Ursula" read and transcribed as "Vrsula."

George.

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I made a little mistake in one of my posts. I said that many genealogists mistakenly called the transfer of land between an uncle and nephew. In reality they got that part right. I had mistakenly called it a transfer between second cousins. The mistake is made by the genealogists as to which one is the uncle and which one is the nephew because Martin Ruiz de Esparza is the first cousin to the saints grandmother, Guillermina, making Martin the uncle even though he was the one that was much younger. The saints father is the nephew, again, even though he is the older person.

This helps explain the timeline that I will post later.

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

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There is a booklet available on the Internet as a pdf that gives the ancestry of St. Francis Xavier: "La Familia de Atondo y La Genealogia de S. Francisco de Javier," published in Pamplona in 1920. Do a google search for "La Familia de Atondo" and the link should come up.

George Fulton

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Hi George, Rick and Danny,

This is a really interesting discussion. And, Rick, the link you showed between St. Francis Xavier and our Lope Ruiz de Esparza is really fascinating -nice research. I do have a question about the ancestry of Lope Ruiz de Esparza. I have seen the Martin Ruiz de Esparza and Maria Espinoza genealogy now for several years and I suppose it makes sense. But, I wonder if a generation may be missing. If you assume that our Lope Ruiz de Esparza was born in 1569 and we know that Sancho Ruiz de Esparza had a daughter, Catalina that married in 1403 or 1413, that would suggest that Catalina was born between 1383 and 1393 which would suggest that Sancho Ruiz de Esparza was born between 1363 and 1373. It would seem that 1363 to 1569 would leave around 200 years between Sancho Ruiz de Esparza and our Lope Ruiz de Esparza. That's a very large amount of time to cover for just the elder Lope, Martin and Simon, unless we assume that all three were older than the average person

In reply to by iChristopher

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Dear Chris,

You are correct that there is a large time gap but there is a reason for it. Our Lope Ruiz de Esparza "el menor" was born when his father was older. The time gap between the birth of of the brothers is twenty seven years. It is documented in separate documents. One set of documents was brought to Mexico while the other set of documents is in Spain. Capitan Andres Ruiz de Esparza was in Costa Rica decades before His brother crossed the Atlantic. The brothers may not have even known each other until Lope came over.

Simon also was much older when he had Martin and that is why some genealogist have made the mistake of calling the saint's father his uncle. The saints father was much older when there was an exchange of land with Martin Ruiz de Esparza and that is why Martin is mistakenly called his nephew when the actual relationship between the two is second cousins.

The third piece of evidence is that Simon is much younger than Catalina. When I was researching I

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Rick

Would it be possible to put together a time line with dates of other documents you have. This could also help make better estimates of the birthdates, and ultimately help with Chris's point.

It is certainly possible for men to have children late in life, especially with a second or third wife (we see with Juan de Santiago and his three wives and numerous children (perhaps as many as 45!)).

George

In reply to by gpf13

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Dear George, Chris, Danny, and others....

Your request for a timeline is not being disregarded. The timeline that I have been working on includes who I believe is Sancho Ruiz de Esparza's father. Since I still need a few more pieces to find out whether he is a father or grandfather, I ask for your patience as I would like to present the timeline with Sancho's father. George has some of my information but I asked him to not share it yet as we need a few more pieces to add to the puzzle. Sancho's father is an important part of the family tree as I see him as the trunk from which the main branches of the family come from. Though Sancho is a big branch, I see his his father as the trunk. I say father but I need a couple little pieces to prove it. I also want to investigate a little bit more on the pieces that I already have. So patience please.

George, You have some of the information in front of you so you can see why I want to wait to include him. Thanks for keeping it close to

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One of the issues that I had in putting the tree together was that there are two Catalina Ruiz de Esparzas in the court of the King. Since they were alive at the same time, I kept open the possibility that they were the same person with multiple relationships. The conundrum of the multiple relationships of Catalina Ruiz de Esparza had me scratching my head. It was through working with George Fulton that we were able to discover that there are two Catalina Ruiz de Esparzas, with different parents.. He also helped me discover that Simon is the son of Sancho, I had many clues that he is his son, but the final piece that cemented it came about because of George's collaboration. I am deeply in debt to George.for this collaboration.

I have also received contributions by Mary Lou Mantagna. I often share with Mary Lou pieces of my research before I post them. Her input and contributions are invaluable. It was Mary Lou Mantagna, Ofelia Marquez, Steven F. Hernandez, Miguel "Miggy"

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Hi Rick,

Yeah, I think the Martin Ruiz de Esparza genealogy makes the most sense, it's just the dates I question. I've seen many researchers give the birth of Simon Ruiz de Esparza as circa 1495, which would make Sancho Ruiz de Esparza around 130 years old when Simon was born. I don't question the genealogy really, I more question the dates. Martin Ruiz de Esparza would have to be born prior to 1495 and Simon born closer to or before 1450 for the genealogy to remotely make sense.

Chris

In reply to by iChristopher

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Dear Chris,

I did not produce this tree from what others have posted. It was only at the end that I asked George to lead me to the different postings that he was talking about. I had trouble getting to those posts and found myself looking at a book in a foreign language, other than Spanish. I fooled around and tried to read the book though I only know how to read certain words that have to do with genealogy. I hit the jackpot as Sancho is mentioned as the father of Simon who is the father of Martin Ruiz de Esparza.

This tree is based on evidence. George Fulton said he wanted to see evidence, and that was right up my alley. I want to see evidence. I took out what I had on my research on the Ruiz de Esparza and saw many many pieces to the puzzle, but with important little pieces missing. Some pieces fit together here, and others there, but the little pieces to bring the bigger groups together were missing. The little pieces were needed to prove it. Collaborating with George

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Yes there is, but that document is not on my possession. The document was needed because our Lope is "hijo natural" so Lope Ruiz de Esparza el Mayor, the son of Martin Ruiz de Esparza, felt that it was necessary in order to identify his sons as descendants of their line of nobility. From Martin to our Lope the tree is based on the documents that Mariano Gonzalez Leal cites. I wish I had the document because I although am not questioning its contents regarding the men, I want more info on the women. The focus on the documents is the descendency of the men. I wish I had those documents to put the women under the magnifying glass. Everybody just focuses on the men, which I believe is wrong. Well it's wrong for what I want, as I desire to investigate all our ancestors, not just the men's paternal ancestry.

I made a mistake when I said that Cathalina speaks well of her relatives, it does mention that Catharina and Simon are siblings, but it is Guilermina (Guillmina) who speaks well

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Dear Danny,

My nickname for you is newblood. When I was very young I was interested in genealogy when others my age didn't care. Later, when I was ready to give up genealogy as a hobby, I met Steve Hernandez when he was a puppy just like you. Steve's passion for genealogy research was contagious, just like I find yours to be. Steve's enthusiasm, along with others from his group, got me back on track.

When I remembered that I had done some research on your family tree that connected you to the Ruiz de Esparza, I sent you an email of this line. Your response that while you respected my desire for keeping it quiet, but that it was too special of a discovery, and that I should post it led me to posting it immediately. It was the type of enthusiasm that I really like seeing. So I posted it as a reward for your enthusiasm. I have a lot more pieces to the puzzle, lots more. But I need to do a little more research before I post the material.

Someone once derided my work on this site

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Thank you Mr. Ricci, i really appreciate what you had to say. and i always look forward to your findings.

Danny C. Alonso

Siblings Catalina Lopez and Diego Gomez Blanco from Teocaltiche in early 1600s

Does anybody have any information about who are the parents for the siblings Catalina Lopez and Diego Gomez Blanco from Teocaltiche from the early 1600s. I am more interested in the Catalina Lopez line than the Diego Gomez Blanco.

 

I think that Catalina Lopez might be related to either Catalina Lopez de Nava (Jeronimo Macias) or to Catalina Lopez de Portugal (daughter of Diego Gomez).

 

I am thinking more related somehow to Catalina Lopez de Nava (Jeronimo Macias) since,

  1. Descendants have Lopez de Nava
  2. Padrones from Santa Maria de los Lagos in 1669 possibly have her granddaughters (Maria Garcia and Gertrudis Lopez) and in 1676 (Gertrudis Macias).
  3. A granddaughter of hers is named Maria Gonzalez (daughter of Francisco Prieto y Luisa Lopez). Possibly in reference to the Maria Gonzalez married to Francisco Munoz de Nava

 

I am thinking less likely related to Catalina Lopez de Portugal, and only thinking it as possibility since parent is named Diego Gomez.

New member

Hey, My name is Abel Sandoval 

My dad was born in San Blas, Nayarit and his parents were Maria Martinez Llamas born in Union de Tula in est1928, Jalisco and Alberto Sandoval Ramirez I think born in Zacatecas in est1938.

I found my dads baptism paper with his grandparents and parents names:

Los papas de Alberto Sandoval Ramirez fueron Maximiliano Sandoval(creo Sandoval Tovar) y Socorro Ramirez(creo Maria de Socorro Ramirez Ramirez)creo que los dos fueron de Zacatecas. Im not sure how many kids they had but i found a record of a Julia Sandoval that was died shorlty after she was born in Feb 17 1943

Los papas de Maria Martinez Llamas fueron Zeferino Martinez(Martinez Ruiz) y Antonia Llamas(Llamas Arias) los doz fueron de Union de Tula, Jalisco.  They had 11 kids all are deceased. 

Maria Martinez Llamas we think had a family in Jalisco from what people told my dad and ran off with my grandpa. My grandmother got sick after she gave birth to my dad in Nov 18 1966 and went back to Union de Tula

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I did some more looking and found what I believe to be my grandmother Maria Martinez's baptism. She was born in las Palmas, Jalisco.

I also found my Great grandfathers baptism record. He was born in El rancho de los Tovares, Tepechitlan, Zacatecas. I'm not sure where that is since I believe the name has changed to something else.

and I found birth records of my grandfathers sister Abelina Sandoval born 2 Nov 1935 altamira, Tepechitlan, Zacatecas, Mexico. Not sure if she is still alive or not but im getting closer.

mtDNA Haplogroup Database - NR Members - NEW RESULTS

Hi folks,
It has been almost a year since I've updated the NuestrosRanchos mtDNA databse located here: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19799 (

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Hi Katy,

I am a co-admin of this site. 

The node in question (19799) was deleted before 6-5-2012 (per post by user "longsjourney") referencing there was no data. 

In researching this issue, the deleted node 19799 was created on 5-29-2012 and deleted before 6-5-2012. 

The very next day (5-30-2012), a updated post was submitted (node 20642) by Claudia, and an updated .pdf file was included with the date of 6-13-2012. 

Apparently from what I gather this DNA database was periodically updated by Claudia Reynoso.   

In searching the mtDNA posts from Claudia, this is the last known update with a file attachment. 

I believe the node 19799 was deleted when the new node 20642 was created. 

Anyway I made a note of this in Claudia's original 5-29-2012 post, and pointed anyone interested to the last known Claudia mtDNA post and corresponding file attachment.

Lee

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I belong to 23 and me, and Ancestry.com, Still have not found anyone other than my sister Armida Shore, who is Haplogroup X2a1a. My great grandmother name was Vinita, I have no other information, although we believe she was from Chihuahua, Mexico.

In reply to by Aida_Garralda

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this is a new one to me. is X2ala considered Native American?
Linda

________________________________
From: "garralda@cox.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2013 11:41 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] MTDNA

I belong to 23 and me, and Ancestry.com, Still have not found anyone other than my sister Armida Shore, who is Haplogroup X2a1a. My great grandmother name was Vinita, I have no other information, although we believe she was from Chihuahua, Mexico.

In reply to by Aida_Garralda

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I found this on-line but I don't know anything about it. You may want to check out this book.

X: Haplogroup X is found in Europe and Asia, and is believed to
have migrated to the Americas about 15,000 years ago, making up a very
small component of the Native American population.
Bryan Sykes in his Seven Daughters of Eve book named this mtDNA
haplogroup Xenia.

Alicia

________________________________
From: "garralda@cox.net"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2013 11:41 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] MTDNA

I belong to 23 and me, and Ancestry.com, Still have not found anyone other than my sister Armida Shore, who is Haplogroup X2a1a. My great grandmother name was Vinita, I have no other information, although we believe she was from Chihuahua, Mexico.

Comment

I clicked on the page and it said nothing there.  who do I send my MTDNA information too?  Joseph is that you?

________________________________
From: "guadalajaradispensas@gmail.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 5:12 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] mtDNA Haplogroup Database - NR Members - NEW RESULTS

Hi folks,
It has been almost a year since I've updated the NuestrosRanchos mtDNA databse located here: http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/19799

I plan to upload some fresh additions but before I do that - given that more members have tested - I am posting this announcement in hopes that we get more interest and more additions.

If you want to add your details, please send me a private message and I will update. Please include:
1) mtDNA Haplogroup (A, B, C, D or X)
2) name of farthest ancestress you can document (mother's-mother's-mother, etc.)
3) date of birth for this ancestress
4) place of birth for this ancestress
5) your email address

-

New Member

Hola! My name is Jenn Ames and my paternal grandfather, Manuel Amezcua, was born in 1906 in Guadalajara, Mexico. I grew up quite close to my grandparents, however I never knew much about his side of the family or why he left Mexico when he did in 1926 and came to NY. I have been digging into the history of Mexico, primarily Jalisco, and researching every family member and associate I come across. Here is a little piece of what I've collected:

Grandfather - Manuel Amezcua (changed to Ames after coming to the US but not until the 1940s) born 29 Oct 1906

Great-grandmother - Maria Concepcion Amezcua born 6 Feb 1879 in Tala, Jalisco to Ambrosio Amezcua and Maria Eligia Ocampo. She married Porfirio Orozco (born 16 Sept 1868 in Zapopan, Jalisco) in June 1896, and they had 4 children together. Only 2 survived to adulthood and I have family pictures of "Tio Pablo" and "Tia Ana". Porfirio died in Feb 1905 in Guadalajara and their youngest daughter died the following month in Zapopan. I'm not sure

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The Ocampo surname would typically be the Mother's maiden name....but his mother's maiden name is Amezcua.... I have not seen a record where the Ocampo is used as part of his name.

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I wrote to the the person editing Manuel Padilla Francos to ask if he knew about Manuel Amezcua..... and the 3 Manuel Padillas....... we'll see if he responds.  

Below is what I mentioned and asked:

"GuadalupePadilla Gutierrez:

I suspect that his Manuel Padilla Franco born in 1883 died young because the parents had another Manuel Padilla Franco born in 1887.   Also there is Manuel Padilla that had a child named Manuel Amezcua---- is that his son?    See here:    

Manuel Padilla Franco  Male 17 December 1883 – Deceased G7YN-PX9

Manuel Padilla Franco (1887–Deceased) • Person • Family Tree

and....  Manuel Padilla  Male  Deceased  P9M2-GL5     are these all the same person?  son todos estos la misma persona?"

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He’s a member of the Jalisco Genealogy Facebook group and I had posted about my grandfather there. He does have the Padilla surname but I don’t want to just add people without doing the research. I don’t really like that he took my family picture and posted it for someone that I’m unsure is the right person…I haven’t been bold enough to approach the subject though! 

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That is my picture of my great-grandfather, but it has been uploaded from a Jalisco Facebook group where I posted it originally and not by me! I would have to do much more research on this person before I could say that it was for sure the Manuel Padilla I'm searching for. I don't want to have to correct mistakes later on. 

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Well....there is a whole tree here but you don't mention (or I missed) some part of the tree.....  https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/landscape/9V9G-FRW

Was Manuel Padilla the actual father of Manuel Amezcua?  The birth registration states that she had been widowed from Porfirio Orozco for 2 years at time of Manuel Amezcua birth.....  and does NOT list a father for Manuel Amezcua.  

In the family tree somebody has placed under Manuel Padilla as his son?  Is this correct?  Did she ever marry Manuel Padilla?  If so we can go look for that document.

 

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Yes, Manuel Padilla is the biological father of Manuel Amezcua. Porfioro Orozco died in February 1905 and my grandfather was born Oct 1906. In many places I'm finding people (myself included in the past) have linked Porfirio as his father because Ma Concepcion was married to him just prior to my grandfather's birth. Neither his birth registration nor baptismal record list a father. I have not found any marriage records with Ma Concepcion and Manuel Padilla, but from reading about the area at that time this is not uncommon. There were many unwed or widowed women in the area raising families on their own. 

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Welcome to Nuestros Ranchos Jenn!


That's unfortunate you know so little about your paternal great grandfather, Manuel Padilla. He sounds like an interesting person. Your grandfather Manuel's baptismal record mentions he was born out of wedlock (hijo natural) and makes no mention of his father. The same goes for his birth record which also makes no mention of his father. If you haven't already done so, consider using DNA matches to help you in your search for Manuel Padilla and his ancestors.

In reply to by mralvarez314

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I have actually slowly been combing through DNA matches on different sites. I build out family trees if they have one that I can add on to, but many people haven't started one yet and reaching hasn't gotten me any replies! It's so frustrating. I will not stop digging though!

Research Digest, Vol 95, Issue 2

Oh si seme abia olvidado que ya abia encontrado el matrimonio de ellos. Bueno, el matrimonio dice que Nicolas Navarro era viudo de Ines de Robalcaba . Pero no lista los padres de Josepha.

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Buenas tardes, recién encontré un acta de bautismo en la que se dan los nombres de los padres, al parecer Nicolás Navarro de Alcocer fue hijo de Pedro Navarro y María Cabrera, en el caso de Josefa Hurtado, señala que sus padres fueron Luis Herrera(?) y Juana Hurtado de Mendoza. No he encontrado información de Luis y Juana pero apenas estoy empezando a investigar.

Fuente: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5TZ-X?lang=es&i=400

Saludos.

Juana Hurtado esposa de Salvador Lomelin

Hello, I am looking for information about Juana Hurtado. I know her parents were Nicolas Navarro and Josepha Hurtado de Mendoza and that she was baptized on July 8, 1697 in Ocotlan.

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Buenas tardes, recién encontré un acta de bautismo en la que se dan los nombres de los padres, al parecer Nicolás Navarro de Alcocer fue hijo de Pedro Navarro y María Cabrera, en el caso de Josefa Hurtado, señala que sus padres fueron Luis Herrera(?) y Juana Hurtado de Mendoza. No he encontrado información de Luis y Juana pero apenas estoy empezando a investigar.

Fuente: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5TZ-X?lang=es&i=400

Saludos.

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Ya tentastes consultar el casamiento de Nicolás Navarro y Josefa Hurtado de Mendoza? Fueron casados el 20 de junio de 1675 en Ocotlán.
Daniel

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Este ramo de los Hurtado de Mendoza de Ocotlán descienden de D. Nicolás González de Mendoza quien fué bautizado el 16 de febrero de 1636 en Ocotlán hijo legítimo de Juan González Florida y Juana Hurtado de Mendoza, postoriormente usó el apellido González de Mendoza. Era nieto de Pedro Núñez de Sotomayor y Ana Hurtado de Mendoza. Esta familia tuvó sucesión en Michoacán (Zamora y Morelia) y en Guadalajara. Dicho Nicolás falleció el 15 de julio de 1693 en Ocotlán y casó el 20 de abril de 1669 en la misma ciudad. Creio que por aquí deves investigar. Se fuese Hurtado de Mendoza estaríamos en la dirección correcta. Puede ser que sea hermana de Nicolás González de Mendoza, ya que era custumbre usar el apellido de la madre en cierto casos. Ahora, en relación con el hipótesis que Nicolás Navarro y Gaytán sea el mismo, es possible. Hasta ahora no he encontrado ningún acta de defunción ni casamento. Tendríamos que localizarlo. Sé que Nicolás Navarro Gaytán y Cabrera fue bautizado el 24 de febrero

Help with XIX century mystery Jalisco

According to the informacion matrimonial of my ancestor Emeterio Ramirez who got married in Michoacan in 1858 he was 38 during that time and was from Teocaltiche Jalisco. It also says his parents were Santiago Ramirez and Rafaela Ponce but after reading other documents I think his father was actually called Santos Ramirez. 

Most of the files from that era and place including surrounding areas in Jalisco are indexed but I actually checked them anyway and found nothing. Apparently the family moved to Michoacan at some point but the only one who returned or remained there was his sister Josefa Ramirez who married Juan Gomez in 1847 in Atotonilco el Alto, Jalisco. 

I don't know if I'm doing something wrong in my research, I dont have experience with this region so I would like to read other opinions on this brickwall. 

Comments

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https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/landscape/G8BQ-DY4

I looked around saw this...  

I suspect that "Santos" and "Santiago" are the same person.  You will note that many Mexican documents use alterations and nicknames for the original name.  Preponderance of information indicates that for the children being born and married that mention these names is the he is one and the same. 

Pedro de Anda

Alguien sabe como se veia el Capitan Pedro de Anda? Una pintura tal vez? Como fue su vida? De donde venia? Que barco? Sus padres? Beatriz Gonzalez de Castañeda? Sus padres?

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Cap, Pedro De Anda es mi noveno bisabuelo. Segun la informacion que he encontrado sus padres fueron Pedro De Anda y Isabela Altamirano. Pero no he visto bautizo que confirme esta informacion.
El Rey Felipe II de Espana por medio de la Real Audencia de Nueva Galicia ortogo el 27 de agosto de 1565 al matrimonio de espanoles formado por el capitan Pedro de Anda y su mujer Beatriz de Casaneda, para fundar la hacienda del Xaral junto a la Mesa redonda al poniente de Santa Maria de los Lagos, para la cria de ganado major de 1,756 hectareas mas dos caballerias de tierra con 42.8 hectareas cada una.
Juan Anda Altamirano hijo de Pedro es mi octavo bisabuelo.

Aurora (De Anda) Romo. Mis padres nacieron en Aguascalientes.

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Yo también desciendo de Capitan Pedro de Anda y Isabel Castaneda. Si Pedro De Anda es hijo de Pedro de Anda y Isabel Altamirano, el es primo lejano del El Rey Felipe II de España. El parentesco es por que Pedro de Anda será descendiente de Pedro “el cruel” rey de Castilla. También sería descendiente del rey de Navarra y pariente lejano De Francisco Reynoso y Rico.(ancestro de Los Reynoso de Los Altos de Jalisco)

A great great grandmother of Capitan Pedro de Anda Altamirano has an “English” father and a Jewish mother.. this great great grandmother of Pedros is married to a great grandchild of King Pedro el cruel de Castilla

Rick A. Ricci

Informaciones matrimoniales y actas diversas - Antigua Diócesis de Michoacán. Thirteen FHL (FamilySearch.org) films index.

Hello forum.

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Valladolid, 1689.
20. Información matrimonial formada a solicitud de Diego de Anaya y Andrea de Avalos, vecinos de esta ciudad. Ante el Lic. Álvaro de Contreras y Garnica.
Ubicación: Rollo 3/078, Alguien ha visto este registro? Gracias

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Otro dato importante es de que Alonso de Arias Maldonado tuvo por lo menos una hermana, Jacinta de Guzman Maldonado. Esta Jacinta fue casada con Jorge Manrriquez de Lara quienes fueron vecinos de Irapuato, GTO. Sabemos esto por el testimonio que dio su nieto (el Br. Antonio Arias Maldonado) en donde menciona que el Lic. Jose Manrriquez Maldonado es primo de su padre:
...Licdo D. Joseph Manrriquez Maldonado primo lto. de dho mi Pe...

Aqui les paso informacion en donde el Lic. Jose Manrriquez Maldonado menciona a sus padres:

Informacion del Lic. Jose Manrriquez Maldonado

Asi que si combinamos esta informacion del Lic. Jose Manrriquez Maldonado con la del Lic. Antonio Arias Maldonado tenemos lo siguiente:

(Hermanos) Alonso Arias Maldonado <-------> Jacinta de Guzman Maldonado
(Primos) Alonso Arias Maldonado <-------> Lic. Jose Manrriquez Maldonado
(Nietos) Br. Antonio Arias Maldonado

Saludos Cordiales,

Daniel Serna Valencia

Comment

Esto esta interesante, al parecer era Jorge Manrique de Lara y fijate que estaba viendo una vista del libro "Los Torres de Jaen en México..." donde dice que Jacinta fue nacida en España... solo que no pude encontrar el libro en linea solo en bibliotecas.

Comment

Aqui les comparto otros autos sobre la capellania que mando fundar Catalina Zavala, esposa que fue de Jorge Maldonado. Catalina y Jorge fueron los padres de Jorge Manrriquez Maldonado quien fue casado con Jacinta de Guzman Maldonado:

Capellania que mando fundar Catalina de Zavala - Irapuato, GTO

En si la capellania no habla mucho de los padres de Jacinta de Guzman Maldonado, pero nos da mas informacion sobre los Marriquez ya que Catalina fue hija de Pedro de Zavala y Luisa Manrriquez - de Lara(?). De todos modos siento que Jacinta en verdad tuvo un parentesco cercano con Alonso de Arias Maldonado y siento que si fue su hermana.

Saludos,

Daniel Serna Valencia

Comment

De acuerdo con la obra "León: trayectoria y destino" del Dr. Mariano González-Leal, Luisa Manrique, esposa de Pedro de Zavala, es hija del fundador de León Pedro Gómez y de su esposa Catalina Manrique.

Sobre Alonso Arias Maldonado existe un inventario de bienes suyos en el AGI que no está digitalizado. Lo solicitaré y compartiré aquí cualquier hallazgo que exista en él sobre su filiación.
Saludos,

Erik Reynoso.

Comment

Estimado Erik,

Un gusto saludarte. Hace años que investigo a "la pequeña Lucía Manrique", que aparece entre los primeros leoneses en 1575. Tenía evidencia circunstancial de que ella y la esposa de Pedro Zavala podrían ser la misma persona. Hoy me encuentro con tu comentario y cierra un ciclo importante en mi investigación. ¡Gracias!

Por pura casualidad, ¿sabrás si hay alguna relación entre estos Manrique (de Lara) y Catalina Manrique de Lara, esposa de Garcí Bravo de Laguna en Guanajuato?

Vi un comentario en Wikitree que dice que, dado que ambos vivieron en el mismo lugar y que cada uno tuvo familia en la misma época, es posible que Catalina Manrique, esposa de Garcí Bravo de Laguna, y Jorge Manrique, esposo de Jacinta Arias Maldonado, fueran hermanos. ¿Hay alguna evidencia que apunta a esta conexión, como se menciona en WikiTree?

Estoy investigando unos traspasos de tierras en Irapuato a principios de 1600. Los presbíteros de las diferentes ramas familiares parecen haberse heredado

Comment

Catalina, una de las hijas de Jorge Manríquez y Jacinta de Guzmán, fué casada con Francisco Martín Gallardo. Francisco y Catalina bautizaron a su hijo Ignacio el 15 de Octubre de 1662 en Irapuato. Catalina es mencionada en este bautismo como Caterina arias maldonado.

Comment

Estoy de acuerdo Daniel, pues en la declaracion del nieto dice... fuelo del de Silao el licenciado Joseph Manriquez Maldonado, primo hermano de dicho mi padre.

Lo mas logico es pensar que precisamente Alonso y Jacinta eran hermanos, entonces que opinas sobre lo que te comente anteriormente, que en una vista previa observe que decia que Jacinta era proveniente de España segun el libro de Los Torres de Jaen. No se como conseguir ese libro...
Dice así:
Doña Catarina Manrique de Guzmán y Maldonado o Doña Ana Martínez de Lozano Gallardo. ... Doña Jacinta Guzmán y Maldonado, nacida en España.

Comment

Buen Dia Veronica,

Necesitamos ver los datos/documentos en el cual se menciona que Doña Jacinta Guzmán y Maldonado fue nacida en España. Hay muchos datos que Alonso de Arias Maldonado fue originario de la Ciudad de Mexico, si Jacinta fue su hermana y de una familia noble y destacada... Seria interesante mirar en los libros de las parroquias de la Ciudad de Mexico a ver si encontramos alguna partida de Alonso y/o Jacinta.

Saludos,

Daniel Serna Valencia

Comment

Interesante. Gracias por compartir. Estoy buscando a Alonso Arias Maldonado quien vivió entre 1590 y 1680. Hasta ahora no he encontrado muchos rastros de él aunque sus hijos fueron bautizados en Tlazazalca. Saludos!

JALOSTOTITLÁN PADRONES

Hola a todos,

Perhaps some of you already know of this, in which case it’s old news, but for some time, FamilySearch has made available access to the padrones of Jalostotitlán, beginning in 1650 (of which those of the 17th century are handily transcribed and published in a series of books by Sergio Gutiérrez, which I highly recommend):

1650-1837 Jalostotitlán padrones: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9K7-WSZH?i=0&cat=2302…

And I just noticed the other day that they have finally uploaded the padrones of 1649 and 1689:

1649 Jalostotitlán: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHJ-27CL-ZCFL?view=explore…

1689 Jalostotitlán: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHN-57C2-XSQP-H?view=explo…

While the rest of these padrones have been available, the 1689 padrón is new to me. This has helped bridge that gap between 1679 and the 1700s - an entire generation!

I hope you find these

Comments

Comment

Thanks, Glenn. Actually, there are several more padrones that are newly uploaded, filling in the gaps throughout the 18th & 19th centuries. Hopefully this search results will work here: https://www.familysearch.org/en/records/images/search-results?startDateAvailable=2025-02-15&place=218&page=1

I'm finding more descendants for some of my families in Juan de los Lagos - even another probable daughter of Don Diego Magdaleno cc Mariana de Aguirre: Rosa Maria de Ovalle y Aguirre, who was married to Salvador Ramires, appears living on Puesto de los Aguirres in 1731: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHN-17C2-KSN7?view=explore…

In the 1689 Padron, living in Don Diego's household was a Rosa Magdaleno-doncella: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHK-P7C2-Q387-W?view=explo…

Saludos!

Manny Díez Hermosillo

Comment

Manny,

Thank you for sharing!

The 1649 padrón also contains assorted maps on the last few images. My guess is that they are from the 1980s.

  • Imagen 26 - Mapa del Sistema La Zurda-Calderón, un proyecto de abastecimiento de agua para la Zona Metropolitana de Guadalajara (después de 1980)
  • Imagen 27 - Mapa de Jalostotitlán, Jalisco (sin fecha)
  • Imagen 28 - Índice del mapa de Jalostotitlán (sin fecha)
  • Imagen 29 - Mapa del municipio de San Juan de los Lagos, Jalisco (sin fecha)
  • Imagen 30 - Mapa de Encarnación de Díaz, Jalisco, (sin fecha)
  • Imagen 31- Mapa de San Miguel el Alto (sin fecha)

Padrones adicionales de Jalostotitlán:

Rosas last name

Hi Community and thank you very much for accepting me, I've been investigating several years regarding the last name Rosas which is a very common last name in San Martin Hidalgo, Jalisco.

 

I was able to track my Ancestor Domingo de Roxas which was married to Joana Berrinches and had a son called Domingo Gregorio de Rosas which is also my direct ancestor, Domingo Gregorio was born 1728 in "Cañada de Botas" in Cocula, what I'm trying to know if is the Ancestor Domingo de Roxas was the same that was born in Guadalajara son of Nicolas de Rosas Gonzalez Romero and Ysabel Guzman Paz, since I have not found any marriage certificate from Domingo de Roxas and Joana Berrinches in Cocula, and I reviewed a lot of documents.

If you have something regarding this or if you could point me in the right direction I'll appreciate, or if you are also investigating Rosas I could add to your research

Thanks in advance!

Comments

Comment

I’ve been researching the Rosas of Valladolid>Guadalajara for about a dozen years. I descend from Nicolas de Rosas & Isabel de Guzman, through their son Carlos de Rosas. And while Nicolas and Isabel did baptize a son named Domingo in 1668, I’ve been unable to determine whether he is the same who married Juana Berrinches Ramirez. The last record I have of Domingo de Rosas Guzman is when he and his sister Isabel were godparents for a cousin’s child on 9 Apr 1697 in Ocotlan. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G5R4-3?i=417&wc=3J6F-7…

He is probably the same person - if not, then your Domingo de Rosas might be the son of Nicolas’ brother, Juan de Rosas, who married Juana de la Mora Zamora on 27 Aug 1656 in Ocotlan: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-G55W-J?i=151&wc=3J6F-7…
Though I have no record of them having a son named Domingo, it’s possible.

Good luck, let us know if you find anything.

Saludos,
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Help finding lost dispensa

There is a dispensa that I misplaced notes or more likely didn't take notes on it. It lists two brothers: one Bernardino de Isla and the other Bernardino de Sandoval. From what i recall, the visual writing makes it liking between 1700 and 1750, and the relationship was in the narrative form within a paragraph (not separate from paragraph and listed line by line) and likely on the first page. The location was likely either Nochistlan, Teocaltiche, Tepatitlan, or Jalostotitlan.

I have tried searching the dispensas again, but have not found it, which makes me think it might be from a marriage information or from some other location.

Comments

Comment

I found this interesting info for a Bernardino with similar name..... seems to me he married his first cousin looking at the tree.  Not sure if it was what you were looking for but quite interesting with common names.

Marriage was like 1835 so the years are off but it seemed like you were relying on memory for the 1700-1750 date range anyway.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:684K-RTCB?lang=en

https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/landscape/M2ZB-578

 

 

Comment

Sorry I cannot help. I usually input all dispensas on my tree and I am interested in those surnames so I would have done it if I had found it. I didn't find those brothers on my tree.

Comment

I am pretty certain that it said they were brothers.

I do not descend from whoever the marrying couple was nor descend from the people up the line through the Bernardinos, so I didn't pay much attention to the dispensa other then notice that it had two brothers having the same name (uncommon, but not unheard of during that time and prior).

Comment

Are the two Bernardinos in the original post the same two that were baptized together on 6 July 1648 in Nochistlán? The baptismal record states that one was the son of Nicolás de Sandoval and Magdalena González. The other Bernardino was an hijo de la iglesia whose compadres [padrinos?] were Nicolás de Sandoval and Magdalena González! I have wondered if the second one was also a son of Nicolás de Sandoval. They are all listed together on the 1649 padrón for Nochistlán.

Comment

I have thought the same thing. After i bought The Altos de Jalisco: Padrones book and saw that the Bernardino de Isla and Mariana de Sandoval household had 3 other Bernardinos, I immediately thought about the dispensa that i had seen earlier.

Introduction / help with Maria de la Merced Gonzalez de Hermosillo Perez-Franco

Introduction / Any help with  Maria de la Merced Gonzalez de Hermosillo Perez-Franco. is appreciated!

Hi. I am Miguel and am honored to be able to participate in this amazing community.  Thank you Joseph! and Primos.

I’ve been working on a project for my wife for 8 months now on building her family three, but I’ve halted for 3 months on María Merced González (de Hermosillo Perez-Franco) / María (de la) Merced (Cleofás Micaela del Sacramento) González (Pérez)

She is reported on “Familias novohispanas. Un sistema de redes” and ancestry.com as Daughter to Rafael González de Hermosillo Zermeño and Mariana Josefa Pérez-Franco Prido  

However, I’ve not been able to match Rafael/Josefa

Comments

Comment

Miguel,

I also noticed you were looking for info out of the book: Los Torres de Jaén en México:
raíces, tronco y ramas de una estirpe milenaria
Gonzalo Torres Martínez
Editorial Jus, 1975 - Jaén (Spain) - 764 pages

Welcome to the club. I am also interested in the sources that this book may list.

The closest hard copy of the book for me is in the large LDS genealogy library in Salt Lake
City, Utah. There may be another library closer to you, as I live in Arizona.

I too am interested in this book, as it is my only source reference to the marriage date of
Bernabe Felipe de Torres and Ana "Anna" Zermeno. The book states they were married on 1 May
1739 in Lagos de Moreno.  I have yet to find this in typical online Lagos and surrounding
parish records. I do believe the date of the marriage is correct, because I do have the 1739
marriage informacion record via the Arquidiocesis de Morelia at the following link:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-BKYL-M?cc=1883388

I am currently using the 1 May

Comment

Hi Miguel,
Welcome to the Nuestros Ranchos site!.  I am one of 6 co-admins for the site, helping maintain the site "behind the scenes". This allows the great
folks that have ran this site for the last 20 years to operate the site. I really have not posted much on this site, since most of the relations of the
family of my wife are North of Jalisco, with the exception of some older Renteria and Reynoso families who I have researched over the years.
Several years ago my grand-son married into the Zermeno family, and hence my interest in this thread with your Merced Gonzales and Blas
Soto (mayor). The connection is distant, with the common ancestor being Antonio Tadeo Zermeno, baptized 25 Novemeber 1722 in Lagos. 
Ysidro Gonzales de Hermosillo married Maria Gertrudis Zermeno on 13 January 1766 in Lagos.  I have not researched this portion the family
much at all, since the connection is very distant, but Jose Rafael Gonzales de Hermosillo was one of their children, baptized in Lagos on
24 Sep 1776

Comment

Dear Lee, 

After a week of traveling, last night I logged on and took a peek at the documment and my heart went over the moon. I wanted to take a moment to express my sincere gratitude. Your support and kindness have made a significant difference, and I truly appreciate it Thank you. 

Miguel

Comment

Hi Miguel,

I took a look and if I understand right the issue is you know Maria Merced Gonzalez and Blas Soto are your ancestors but you cannot determine with certainty who Maria Merced's parents are.

If that's the case, I see the tough spot. She died in 1860, prior to civil registration, and the death record does not list her parents.

I would try to locate her marriage record. Have you collected baptismal records for the couples children? 

Alex

Comment

Thank you Alex. Correct. 

I have baptismal records for the couples' children (Vidala, Pedro and Agueda). All of them only cite one last name (gonzalez), reduce the last name (sotomayor to soto) and do not include grandparents! 

I have not been able to locate the marriage record. I would have happened between 1808 and 1821 (originally from los lagos but seem to have emigrated nearby to piedra gorda). It seems the family took a toll in those years when the gonzalez hermosillo was about fighting. 

Thank you!

Comment

I found the baptismal records and see there are no grandparents. Why do you place latest time for marriage as 1821? Vidala was baptized in Leon in Sept 1840, so latest for marriage was likely Jan 1840. Since the marriage isnt found in Lagos, I suspect it was in Leon late 1830s. Unfortunately the marriage and IM records for this period are not available. When I'm in this situation, I scour all dispensas with relevant last names (so Soto, Sotomayor etc) for hints. They would be available hopefully at some point on https://www.valladoliddispensas.com/ but they aren't into this era yet. Sorry I couldn't be more help.

Searching for Huejuquilla el Alto and Valparaiso Families (Diaz,Banuelos,Perez,Carrillo)

Hello everyone, first of all, can someone please tell me if a person was born in Valparaiso during 1750-1800's, besides Huejuquilla el Alto, what other film (Parish) can I search through.

Comments

Comment

Andelmo Perez
You may want to check the church records of Amatlan de Jora, Nayarit. I've seen many entries with people from huejuquilla el alto. Sometimes just Huejuquilla. I'm right now in the 1800-1837 book. I haven't delved into the early ones. You may want to check La Yesca too.

Cheers,
AP

Retonos de Espana en La Nueva Galicia

I read the email regarding how helpful and informative the book, Retonos de Espana, was to one of our members. My question is, is the book available for sale, and if it is how do we purchase it?

Comments

Comment

If you would like to have your own copy Raúl Hurtado Pérez might be able to
find you one. His email is ivraga@prodigy.net.mx

Armando

On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 4:32 PM, wrote:

> I read the email regarding how helpful and informative the book, Retonos
> de Espana, was to one of our members. My question is, is the book
> available for sale, and if it is how do we purchase it? What is the cost?
> Thank you. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List
>
> To post, send email to:
> research(at)NuestrosRanchos.**com
>
> To change your subscription, log on to:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org
>

Comment

Raul Hurtado Pérez

Si te interesan y quieres comunicarte conmigo para ponernos de acuerdo mi teléfono es (01152) 3336810486

El costo de la colección es de $1,000 como $90 USD mas gastos de envio

Les envío la descripción de cada uno de los tomos de la colección de “Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia”

Tomo 1 Estudios Histórico, antropológico, genealógico y biográfico sobre la población española de la zona oriental de la Nueva Galicia, desde su establecimiento en la región hasta nuestros días
Tomo 2 Diccionario Genealógico de las familias alteñas (ABALZA to CANO)
Tomo 3 Diccionario Genealógico de las familias alteñas (CARLIN to GARCIA DE CUEVAS)
Tomo 4 Diccionario Genealógico de las familias alteñas (GARCIA DE HERMOSILLO to GONZALEZ DE LARIS)
Tomo 5 Diccionario Genealógico de las familias alteñas (GONZALEZ DE RUVALCABA to GUILLEN)
Tomo 6 Diccionario Genealógico de las familias alteñas (GUTIERREZ-HURTADO DE MENDOZA)
Tomo 7 Diccionario Genealógico de las familias alteñas (HURTADO DE

Comment

Ann Marie Gutierrez

Hola Profesor, Estoy segura que los de mas membros estan pensando lo mismo que yo. Si es posible comprar nomas un tomo y no toda el coleccion. Por mi parte, mi interes esta en el Tomo 6 de las familia altenas (Gutierrez-Hurtado de Mendoza.
Ojala y que sea posible. Espero su repuesta. Muchas gracias por ser tan attento y por prestar su ayuda. Soy muy agradecida.

Ana Maria

Comment

If you are researching both male and female lines, you may want to
reconsider. Only the male lines with that surname are included in that
family's chapter. I jumped from one Tomo to another as I was hunting down
either the female's lineage (if married into the family), or the daughter's
descendents (within the husband's chapter, if it existed).
Raquel Ruiz

Comment

Ann Marie Gutierrez to George Fulton, Pleasanton, CA.

George, I'm so sorry for responding so late to your message. I guess we get so wrapped up we forget to keep in touch. I thank you so much letting me know where to get the book. I should have searched more especially since I just ordered some book from the U of C. I took classes there and I'm on their mail list. I will access the website and look again. Thank you and I hope you have a good evening.

Ann Marie
Chicago, IL

Comment

Ann Marie

You are most welcome! The University libraries can be an amazing resource, although the conditions of use for non-students, or non-alumni, can be daunting. At UC Berkeley, for example, for a member of the public to get a library card is $100! For a UC alumni, it is free.

Worldcat is a very useful resource, but it does not cover all libraries. An omission is the California State Library, which has an amazing genealogy collection in the Sutro Branch in San Francisco

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comment

Ann Marie Gutierrez

Hi George, I did call the Univ of Chicago and found out they do not lend to individuals but to Universities or Libraries. He suggested I call my local library and request the book. I called this morning and ordered it! It is in stock and he has ordered it for me---should take a couple of days to get to local Library. Hopefully, I will be able to get it. I'll let you know.

Ann marie

Comment

Hi
I have it...want me to look up something?
Write direct.
Mickey

In a message dated 8/2/2013 6:15:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
evievillegas@hotmail.com writes:

I recently received volume 1 of Retoños De España En La Nueva Galicia on
interlibrary loan and was expecting to find Fonseca Montenegro information.
However, it seems the information I want must be in a different volume.
Would anyone happen to have access to the volume containing the names of
early families? Thanks. Evie

Comment

Does anyone know where I can purchase all the volumes of Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia?

Christopher de Cuéllar

On Aug 2, 2013, at 7:50 AM, MMG8938@aol.com wrote:

> Hi
> I have it...want me to look up something?
> Write direct.
> Mickey
>
>
> In a message dated 8/2/2013 6:15:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> evievillegas@hotmail.com writes:
>
> I recently received volume 1 of Retoños De España En La Nueva Galicia on
> interlibrary loan and was expecting to find Fonseca Montenegro information.
> However, it seems the information I want must be in a different volume.
> Would anyone happen to have access to the volume containing the names of
> early families? Thanks. Evie
>
>

Comment

The answer is actually in the same thread that you posted in.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/21037

it is also in the following post

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/20003

On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 10:03 AM, wrote:

> Does anyone know where I can purchase all the volumes of Retoños de España
> en la Nueva Galicia?
>
> Christopher de Cuéllar
>
> On Aug 2, 2013, at 7:50 AM, MMG8938@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Hi
> > I have it...want me to look up something?
> > Write direct.
> > Mickey
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 8/2/2013 6:15:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> > evievillegas@hotmail.com writes:
> >
> > I recently received volume 1 of Retoños De España En La Nueva Galicia on
> > interlibrary loan and was expecting to find Fonseca Montenegro
> information.
> > However, it seems the information I want must be in a different volume.
> > Would anyone happen to have access to the volume containing the names
> of
> > early families? Thanks. Evie
> >
> >
> > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -

Comment

 
Ann M. Gutierrez

>________________________________
> From: "MMG8938@aol.com"
>To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013 9:50 AM
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia
>
>
>Hi
>I have it...want me to look up something?
>Write direct.
>Mickey
>
>
>In a message dated 8/2/2013 6:15:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
>evievillegas@hotmail.com writes:
>
>I  recently received volume 1 of Retoños De España En La Nueva Galicia on 
>interlibrary loan and was expecting to find Fonseca Montenegro  information.
>However, it seems the information I want must be in a  different volume.
>Would anyone happen to  have access to the volume  containing the names of
>early families? Thanks. Evie
>
>

Help understanding document. Ana de Herrera (Juan Marin de Penaloza)

I need help understanding this document. I think it says Juan de Analis and Francisca de Herrera are the maternal grandparents, but then who are Diego Vasquez de Buendia and Juana Velasquez? Are they the great grandparents?

México, Jalisco, registros parroquiales, 1590-2022," database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6F39-P?cc=1874591&wc=3J4S-… : 28 June 2014), Guadalajara > Diócesis de Guadalajara > Capellanías 1685-1855 > image 517 of 615; parroquias Católicas (Catholic Church parishes), Jalisco.

Comments

Comment

Thank you Don and Manny! After many years of research it's not often I that find new ancestors. But with this information I have added ten ancestors spanning 4 generations going back to Martín de Rifarache and Sábina de Esquivel. So grateful for your research and generosity!

Un cordial saludo.

Austin Pérez

 

Comment

You’re welcome, Austin. Now I’m wondering if this Francisca de Herrera, who was married to Juan de Alanis, is the same Francisca Vasquez de Rifarache who was married to Gonzalo de Balli? I have 2 records that identify her as daughter of Diego Vasquez de Buendia cc Ana de Herrera, and as sister of Diego Vasquez de Buendia. On 18 Jul 1615, she gave power to her husband regarding her inheritance: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BN-99J4-X?i=181&cat=…

Which continues on 18 Jul 1615: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BN-99J4-5?cat=35680&…

Saludos,
Manny Díez Hermosillo
 

Comment

I too was wondering the same.

From Google Books snippet view of "El ayer y el hoy de dos familias de fundadores, las familias Corona y Michel..."  it has Francisca de Rifarache married to Jerónimo de Valli "vecino de Guadalajara y del valle de Contla por Tlacotlán" and it goes on to quote from the book "Los protocolos de Rodrigo Hernández Cordero, 1585-1591...": "En dicho pueblo de Tlacotlán, en el dicho día y mes y año [8 de julio de 1615] y ante la dicha Justicia [don Juan de Hijar] y de mi [Jerónimo López de Rivera] pareció doña Francisca de Rifarache muger legítima de Jerónimo de Valli..."

It also goes on to say that Digoe Vásquez is brother of Francisca de Rifarache.

Some online genealogy trees have Jerónimo de Valli as brother of licenciado Juan Bautista Valli (b. ~1575) who married María de Estrada on 25 Feb. 1601 in Guadalajara.

From the "informaciones de moribus et vita" for Agustín Marín de Peñaloza it appears that Francisca de Rifarache and Francisca de Herrera are the same

Comment

According to testimonies, Ana de Herrera was daughter of Juan de Alanis cc Francisca de Herrera (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N23Z-FBL), and granddaughter of Cap Diego Vasquez de Buendia cc Juana Velasquez, though it doesn’t say who these two were the parents of - Juan de Alanis or Francisca de Herrera? I’ve never seen “Alanis” among the immediate descendants of Diego Vasquez de Buendia cc Juana Velasquez, but I have seen “Herrera”: their son, Hernan Vasquez de Buendia was married to Ana (or Juana) de Herrera, who was daughter of Benito de Herrera and Doña Francisca de Rifarache (daughter of conquistador Martin Rifarache cc Sabina Esquivel, and whose second husband was Cristobal Ordoñez). From the timeline, this would make more sense. And then I notice that, on image 523, witness Francisco Flores de la Torre says “los bisabuelos maternos fueron vecinos de la siudad de guadalaxa y se llamaron hernan basques y doña ana de errera y el capitan dio basques de buendia y da jua

Ongoing search for ORNELAS Orgin.

Hello all.
Been a few years since I last posted here, and glad to see the site is still strong.
Some kind person, whose name I stupidly forgot helped me trace my ancestry a ways back and now I suspect that our origin may have been José "Jusepe" de Ornelas,  In San Juan De Los Lagos, and that his father or grandfather may have been Álvaro de Ornelas y Perestrello, born 1561, in Caniço, Santa Cruz, Madeira, Portugal,  and that his father was João Alvaro De Ornelas E Vasconcelos, born 1538, and that our entire family line begins in Santa María de los Lagos, Intendencia de Guadalajara, Reino de Nueva Galicia, New Spain.
Anyone with better information or who can help  figure out where our name Came from originally  (I believe it cams from Santa Comba De Fornelas, Puebla del Brollón, provincia de Lugo, Galicia, (Spain)  or its  etymology, (I have three separate theories) please feel free to contact me!
Thanks!
Piero Ornelas. Hijo De Raphael. 

Comments

Comment

If you follow that tree backward you find yourself here:

ferando eanes de ornelas nacido en ~1200.... looks like these folks were from Amares, Braga, Portugal..... that is if it is the correct individual but there is already a tree created.

IF that is correct then it just may have been created as a name for the place he was from:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornelas_(Amares)

https://gw.geneanet.org/serch1992?lang=es&n=de+ornelas&p=fernando+eanes

 

 

Comment

Do you have this info?  I think these are the folks you are asking about.   If not you can find it here:  https://es.geneanet.org/fonds/individus/?go=1&nom=de+Ornelas+y+Perestre…Álvaro+&prenom_operateur=or&with_variantes_nom=&with_variantes_nom_conjoint=&with_variantes_prenom=&with_variantes_prenom_conjoint=&size=10

Image removed.  Alvaro de Ornelas Y Perestrello

  • Nacido en 1561 - Canico, Santa Cruz, Madeira, Portugal
  • Fallecido en 1614 - Jalostotitlán, Jalisco, México, a la edad de 53 años

 Padres

 Casamiento(s) y/e  hijo(s)

 Hermanos

The mtDNA of Josefa Diaz marrried with Miguel Diaz Montañez

Hey all,  

It has been some time since I have posted. I recently asked a granddaughter of my great-great grandfather Antonio Lopez’s sister who is direct living female descendant of Josefa Diaz and Miguel Diaz Montanez (son of Juan Montanez and Sebastiana Diez).  

A bit of background, according to a tree online, Josefa Diaz and Miguel Diaz Montanez wed on April 7, 1641, en Pinos, Zac, Reino de Nueva Galicia. I do not think I have their marriage document. Perhaps her parents are shown on their marriage doc? 

Josefa Diaz is of significant importance to me because not only do I descend from her on this line, but I am also a descendant of her on eleven other lines.  

To this day I have not found a primary source that shows who her parents are. Armando Antunano, Sanchiz Family Tree and Family Search Tree has her as daughter of Juan Diaz de la Huerta and Isabel Martin de Sotomayor. This would make Josefa Diaz granddaughter of Maria de las Ruelas. I am wondering how this was concluded. Or if

upload

Comments

Comment

Hola Roberto,

I already shared this information with you via texting, but I thought I’d also share it with the group.

The marriage and veiling records of Miguel Díaz Montanés and Josefa Díaz do not name their parents, though both ceremonies took place on Juan Montanés’ paraje de Los Ojuelos, and he was named as a witness of the veiling.

There are two dispensas that reveal that Josefa Díaz was the daughter of Isabel Marín de las Ruelas:

1. Andrés Martín de Sotomayor y Mayorga cc Juana Cayetana de Villalobos:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-66SD-QN?i=338&cc=18745…

They were at 4º con 3º grado consanguinidad, the relationship looking like this:

Tronco: Andrés Martín Barriga cc María de las Ruelas
Isabel Marín-1-Andrés Martín Camacho
Josefa Díaz-2-Andrés Martín
Ángela Díaz-3-Andrés Martín
Juana Cayetana Villalobos-4-

2. Nicolás Gómez García cc Catalina de Rubalcava: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-X4NK-N?cc=1874591&wc=3…

They were at 3º con 4º grado

Book about Fernandez de Hijar y Bracamonte

just FYI:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Jalisco, Zacatecas y/o Aguascalientes ????
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:29:37 -0500
From: bobby jim

Comments

Comment

any new info on this book?

Comment

Dear Carlos,

I am still waiting for a response about the purchase of the book.

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Dear Carlos,

The book arrived yesterday. Keep me in mind and contact me anytime you have other books to sell.

Thank you for protecting the book, it arrived in excellent condition.

Thanks again,
Rick A. Ricci

Comment

I was working on a book on the hijar family that I have to put aside due to family health issues . I would like to find a copy of this book. If this book has the same data that I have then I can work on the other two articles I am also working on. I am sorry that I have not partiPated much these past few months but look forward to finishing at least couple articles in 2010. Rick
------Original Message------
From: Joseph Puentes
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Book about Fernandez de Hijar y Bracamonte
Sent: Oct 18, 2009 7:26 PM

just FYI:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Jalisco, Zacatecas y/o Aguascalientes ????
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:29:37 -0500
From: bobby jim
To: Joseph Puentes
References: 4ADB3AB5.1070009@nc.rr.com>

Pues gracias por avisarme. Lamento no poder 'cuajar' con su grupo.

Pues sí, los hermanos

Comment

here is some info on the book including various libraries that own it:

Libraries with Item: "Los conquistadores Fernán..."( Record for Item |
Get This Item )
Location Library Code
US,AZ ARIZONA STATE UNIV AZS
US,AZ UNIV OF ARIZONA AZU
US,CA UNIV OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY CUY
US,CA UNIV OF CALIFORNIA, LATIN AM COL RQA
US,CA UNIV OF CALIFORNIA, RIVERSIDE CRU
US,CA UNIV OF CALIFORNIA, S REG LIBR FAC ZAS
US,CT YALE UNIV LIBR YUS
US,CT YALE UNIV, LATIN AM PROJ RQP
US,DC WASHINGTON THEOL UNION WT3
US,GA UNIV OF GEORGIA GUA
US,IL NEWBERRY LIBR IBV
US,LA TULANE UNIV LRU
US,LA TULANE UNIV, LATIN AM ARL RECON RQH
US,MI UNIV OF MICHIGAN LIBR EYM
US,NY NEW YORK PUB LIBR RES LIBR NYP
US,TX TEXAS TECH UNIV ILU
US,TX UNIV OF TEXAS AT AUSTIN IXA
US,VA UNIV OF VIRGINIA VA@
US,WI UNIV OF WISCONSIN, MADISON, GEN LIBR SYS GZM
France BIBLIOTHEQUE DU MUSEE DE L'HOMME FBH
France

Comment

Dear Amalia,

Some of the information that is out there on the Internet and in some books is not true. Because of the misguided information, it is important for me explain and cite with sources the actual family tree.

I put aside my research and book on the Fernandez de Hijar family as I became deeply involved in other research and another book tha t am writing. This other book actually brought me back to the Fernandez de Hijar family research and I have again been researching the Fernandez de Hijar family for the past year. I have found much new information so the book isn't anywhere near being ready for publication, especially since it will ruffle a few feathers. This book now will contain information that I had been researching for two other books. The Fernandez de Hijar family research became connected to my Lomelini family research and also to another book that I was writing on the ethnicities of my ancestors.

I find myself very busy at work in a new position so I have

Benavides/Cortes/Aguayo Revisited & Revised (My Two Cents)

Hello everyone,

This thread is intended to be a continuation of two earlier threads regarding the Benavides trunk started by Manny and Ronnie as seen here:

Comments

Comment

I have my ancestor as:

I. Juan Moscoso y Sandoval married to Catalina Cortez

a.Their daughter is Josefa de Moscoso y Sandoval m. to Juan Lozano.
1.Their daughter is Maria Lozano m. to Geronimo Carrillo.

My question is what number is my Catalina Cortez and who are her parents?
I am so confused I am sorry I had trouble following this tangle of Catalina Cortes names I II and III.

Comment

You are in a tough situation. A Spanish and indigenous parent can be very hard to find ancestors for. I would suggest building out the family tree as much as you can for Bartola and Pedro, then hope you can find a dispensa pertaining to their descendants. Hopefully it will run up Bartola's father's side and you can figure something out that way.

Comment

These lines are well researched and the Lomellini family go back to the Doges of Genoa and the others back to Hernan Cortez  and other nobility. Apart from another branch further back from Moctezuma there are no identified Indians. The Moctezuma Imperial family are also well mapped out back to the Grimaldi family as well as many of us with ancestry from the Spanish in Mexico. Moctezuma's line descends through his daughters and their marriages to other Spanish nobility which continued for centuries in Mexico. 

I was trying to review the research about our connection to the Lomellini family as the Benavides line is so confusing then you threw that there was an indigenous person I'm like, what? lol

Comment

Hi, I'm interested in the Aguayo family mostly located in the Rancho Aguayo in Nochistlan. I have an Excel file of all the Aguayo records I can find... baptisms, marriages, burials. In it I find Regina Aguayo having children with Domingo Mejia: Juana Mejia Aguayo, 3 Mar 1630; and Ysavel Mejia Aguayo, 17 Aug 1692, born in Nochistlan, Zacatecas.

I am happy to send a copy of my excel file to anyone who is interested.

There also is a book, "Genealogia De Nochistlan Antigua Reino De Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII segun sus Archivos Parroquiales" that give the early history of many Nochistlan families. Chapters 22, 24, 56 and 57 discuss the Benevides families.

I'll try to attach to this a chart from the book showing the relationships discussed in your message. Fooey. That didn't work. If you'd like the copy, please send me an email. Ed Nissen

Comment

I have the marriage records of another pair of brothers married to another pair of sisters. The sisters are Catharina De la Paz y Cortez and Francisca De la Paz y Cortez. The brothers are Manuel Antonio Perez Franco de Paredes and Joseph Joachin Perez Franco de Paredes.

Manuel Antonio Perez Franco married Catharina de La Paz y Cortez, and Joseph Joachin Perez Franco married Francisca De La Paz y Cortez.

Both couples married on the same day, on the fifth of June in 1737. The brides are the daughters of Antonio De La Paz y Cortez and Antonia Frias de Ybarra.

The brother's father's surname is Perez Franco but I am unsure of the first name. I am hoping that someone will do a better job of reading his first name than I did.

Here is the link to the marriage records: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XYQT?mode=g&i=380&wc=3J4P-…

I believe that Antonio de La Paz y Cortez descends from the Geronima Benavides/Cortez and

Comment

Another piece to the Benavides/Cortes puzzle:

This is the PROCESO CONTRA FRANCISCO DE VEAS (or “Beas”), the vicar of Nochistlan. He was accused of soliciting sex from women during confession, and abuses against Indians. He was predator scum, and it’s a hard read, so be forewarned. There are 160 pages, and lots of testigos.

This is from 1570, so these are early residents of Nochistlan, several whom I’ve never heard of. But the Benavides do make an appearance: there is mention of the “Estancia de los Benavides,” and Luis de Benavides is present during some of the interviews, as is Maria de Benavides (his sister? his daughter? his niece?). One of the testigos is his wife, ANDREA CORTES (interviewed 25 Aug 1570 at the posada de Juan Perez de Piña). I suppose she would be the mother of Geronima de Benavides cc Gonzalo Yañez del Monte? She is said to look about 30 years-old, so she was born around 1540. My guess is, she’s probably another daughter of Pedro Cortes, and sister of Catalina

In reply to by jrefugioghermosillo

Comment

Oh boy Manny that is exciting. I feel like we are all on the same brick walls in Nochistlan and this is the first lead in a while!

There is an early Benavides line (would be early 1600's late 1500's) in Guadalajara. No clue as to if there is a connection to Nochistlan Benavides.

Heres a will for Juan Benavides in Guadalajara. He is the son of a Luis Benavides

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-8R1Y?cat=198356

Comment

What I take from the will is that this Juan de Benavides was the leigitimate son of a Luis de Benavides and a María Jorge, or Ortíz, or Cortés; that he was married to María de Ávila, daughter of Juan Domínguez.

He says that they had three daughters:

Luisa, Juana (4 years old) and Jacinta (2 years old)

He says tha he has a cousin named Gerónimo de Benavides.

The will is dated 20-march-1634

Comment

​Hi Alex,

I'm not sure, I'm still playing with this idea, that the 3 siblings spoken of in the Gaspar Lomelin/Maria Medinilla dispensa are children of Diego de Benavides, rather than Geronimo de Benavides cc Catalina Cortes. Following this formula, Catalina Cortes cc Juan Moscoso Sandoval is daughter of Geronima de Benavides, and sister of Mariana Ortiz. This would imply that she also married someone surnamed "Cortes." There just aren't enough pieces of the puzzle to make it work yet.

As for Juan de Sandoval's testamento - his mother's name looks like Maria Jorje. What's interesting, is that they are also from Mezticacan, so there is a link!

Great work!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

The will is extremely hard to read; however, I actually believe it says "g.ma de venavides mi prima" who I think it says is in "mesticacan". Left side 6th - 11th lines from the bottom.

I also see as children Luisa de ojo (8?) anos? (this doesnt say Aguayo does it??) Ana 4 years old and Jacinta 2 years old. the tail end of "procreamos por ntros hijos legitimos" and "Luisa" has some words in it that I cant read, right side lines 9 - 13. Please tell me what you guys think.

I do see the 1634 date at the bottom there, but this is the 1638 book. Also Juan Benavides and Maria d'Avila had Ana in 1634 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N23Z-4W5 and Jacinta in 1636 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NB7G-1F6 so I think the entry occured in 1638. They also had a child, Juana on 1 Jun 1615 who doesnt appear in the will. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-2LS6-LS?i=75&wc=3J64-B…

Juan was therefore probably

Comment

Great work, Carlos and Alex.

​In his testamento Juan de Benavides says: “Iten - I declare that I owe Geronima de Benavides, my cousin, 50 pesos. I order that, to repay her, some of the lands that I have in Mesticacan, be sold..."

So, we know that Juan de Benavides had a cousin named Geronima de Benavides, and that he owned land in Mexticacan, which he likely inherited from his father, Luis de Benavides cc Maria Jorge.

​Yesterday, I found this, dated 28 Oct 1669:

Luisa de Benavides, Ana de Avila (viuda de Juan de Siordia), and Jasinta de Avila, hermanas hijas y herederas de Juan de Benavides y Maria de Avila difuntos, all who are over the age of 25, wish to sell to Cristobal de Caravajal, vecino de Tacotlan, “la quinta parte de dos caballerias de tierra en Tacotlan, donde vivia Andres de Cueba, junto a un arbol de sauz junto a otros mesquites como se va al pueblo de Mesticacan por orillas del Rio…,” for the amount of 60 pesos.

They’re selling 1/5th of 2 caballerias of land, where

Comment

Very cool, you're killin it Manny! I'm very interested to see where this leads.

Ever since your post I've gone down the Benavides rabbit hole, hoping to attack the genealogy from many angles. I've recently been compiling data regarding Diego Benavides c. Juana Delgado. What data do you guys have on this couple. I have a couple conflicting dispensas that seem to force their daughters Maria de Aceves and Felipa de Benavides-Delgado as being the same person but vital records search seems to suggest the opposite. Curious is the use of Aceves by a daughter of Diego and Juana. I also haven't found a use of Cortes yet but I'm still digging!

I should throw in the Luis Benavides mix a document, probably regarding a generation or later with regard to the Luis' of this post. Bottom right page

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XW3Q-MC?i=290&wc=12512…

Comment

Alright, here's another. This one fills in at least one hole, and includes one big name. It's dated 4 Nov 1623, in Mexticacan: Mariana Ortiz, viuda heredera y albasea de Alonso Gomez Garay, difunto, and her son, Geronimo Gonzalez Garay (aka Aramburu). This Mariana Ortiz would be the same mentioned in the Gaspar Lomelin/Maria Medinilla dispensa, and who was daughter of Geronima de Benavides. Now we have the name of her husband, Alonso Gomez Garay. Presiding over this proceso is none other that CARLOS LOMELLINI, whose title I can't make out, but who is probably "teniente de alcalde mayor por su majestad." Escribano nombrado is Luis de Benavides. Also mentioned is Pedro de Medinilla (who might be the origin of this surname in Mexticacan), and witnesses present were Cristobal Serrano, Juan Rodriguez and Diego de Benavides.

​Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

In reply to by jrefugioghermosillo

Comment

Great work Manny, and all that have contributed to this thread.
I descend from many of these people mentioned in this thread.

Thanks again,
Rick A. Ricci

In reply to by jrefugioghermosillo

Comment

DUDE! Manny your a magician, making documents appear from thin air! I see the title for Carlos Lomelin "teniente de alcalde mayor en el dicho puesto"

Pedro Medinilla certainly seems connected. For Diego Arambulo c. Mariana Yanez-Medinilla, she uses the surname "Alvarado" sometimes. In your document, Pedro goes by Pedro Medinilla Alvarado on the first page.

Furthermore, Geronimo signs the document "Geronimo Gonzalez y Aramburu"

HOME RUN!

Comment

Hi Alex,
I'm pretty sure you and I have visited this transcription in the past, it's of the visit made by Davalos y Toledo through the various parishes in NG, in Oct 1616. During his stop in Mestiticacan, two of the witnesses are Luis de Benavides and Alonso Gomez Garay. There is no genealogical information given, but at least there's an approximation of Alonso Gomez's age (about 50/ ca 1566). I think this Luis Benavides might be the one married to Maria Jorge?
http://books.openedition.org/cemca/1599?lang=en
Chao,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

IIs this Felipa Benavides or Delgado cc Diego de Pereira a sister of the Maria de Benavides cc Diego de Banuelos having children in Teul in the 1650s? Felipa appears as
one of the padrinos a couple of times on the baptisms of their children.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6439-JY?i=6&cc=1804458
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-6433-9Y?i=32&cc=1804458

Maria de Banuelos cc Nicolas Sanchez Castellanos has a Diego de Benavides listed as her grandfather on her baptism record. If Felipa is Maria de Benavides sister I'm glad to (presumably) have the name of their mother.

~ Andrea

Comment

Hi Andrea,

I am interested in anything you have for the Diego Benavides/Juana Delgado family.

I have them as having at least 5 kids. Luis (probably married to Maria Perez Infante Sepulveda), Maria de Benavides (married to Diego Banuelos), Felipa Benavides Delgado, Maria de Aceves (married to Juan Carrillo), and Juana Delgado (married to Juan Rodriguez de Frias). I think there may be an additional sibling Joseph, married to 1) Maria Gonzalez 2) Juana Ortiz Bustos.

I have not been able to connect Felipa Benavides Delgado cc Diego de Pereira. I have only one document pertaining to her and it states she has a child with the last name Carrillo. I don't know if its an error, confusing Felipa and Maria, or if she married a Carrillo.

Comment

There's another son Nicolas married to an Ana de Santiago 20 Jul 1659 in Tlaltenango. Right side, second from the bottom
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BRBD-J?i=274&wc=3PS7-7…

This baptism record for a son Luis is all I've got for Felipa, and the ones above where she appears as a godparent.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-643S-XG?i=26&cc=1804458

I was missing Maria de Aceves. Thanks! And I hadn't seen a Joseph.

I have Maria de Benavides cc Diego de Banuelos born about 1620 and dying sometime between 1661-1677. Looks like her husband remarried to an Ysabel Gonzalez Delgado (or Delgado Gonzalez) in the early 1660s. If he's the same Diego Banuelos, he may also have had an illegitimate child with an Ysabel de Salazar named Baltazar Onate y Banuelos. If they're the same Diego, then that's a pretty big clue to his lineage.

I have Diego de Benavides still alive as of 11 Nov 1652
https://www.familysearch

Comment

Andrea,

Thank you so much for sharing what you have. I'll add it to mine and see if anything shakes out. I did some research last night and found some more stuff too. Here's what I have:

Felipa appears in dispensas 1418 and 2015 in Maria Luz Montejano's Sagrada Mitra ...

2015 is the only mention of Pereira. This dispensa is a mess and contradicts other information that I have found.

Here are more dispensas which help fill out/confirm the trees:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XWS6-H5?i=171&wc=11124…

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6Y8L-2?i=748&wc=111241…

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-XHSS-1X?i=404&wc=12512…

I think these are relevant but I haven't looked hard enough at them yet:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-65J1-R?i=560&wc=125127…

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6T97-JT?i=551&wc=12512…

https://www.familysearch.org/ark

Comment

Alex

You've just helped me immensely by giving me the marriage dispensation for Pedro Banuelos and Bartola Flores (de la Torre.) These two are also my ancestors on my Gonzalez de Islas line, so I've been looking for that. I will check out the rest of these records and see what happens. Thank you so much.

~ Andrea

Comment

Hi Andrea, I am new here... trying to figure out how this works :) I have also as my ancestors Bartola Flores de la Torre and Pedro Bañuelos. I found their marriage and dispensation, and saw that Bartola´s parents were Hernan Flores de la Torre and Maria Magdalena (indigena woman)... I am not sure which Hernán Flores de la Torre is this... I though it was Hernan Flores de la Torre y de Sandi... but I am not sure... do you have any other document or information regarding this?

Laura

Comment

Hi Alex,
I have in my tree Barthola Flores de la Torre and Pedro Bañuelos too, according to their marriage dispense she was the daughter of an indigenous woman named Maria Magdalena and of Hernan Flores de la Torre... I cannot find any other document to confirm which Hernan Flores de la Torre it is... or who are her grandparents... I think she was from Mezquituta but I have not been able to find any information ...
Do you have any information regarding this or idea where I could find it?

Thank you!

Comment

About 1661 Diego Bañuelos and Maria Benavides were godfather of a child but in 1663 Diego Bañuelos and Ysabel Gonzalez were godfather of a child and in 1665 baptized a Francisco Bañuelos Gonzalez , so Maria Benabides died about 1662.

There were two differents Diego Bañuelos one in Zacatecas the other El Teul, Zacatecas

Ysabel de Salazar and Diego Bañuelos lived in Zacatecas and have illegitimate sons as Baltazar and Bartolome (married August 12th,1680 Tlaltenango).

Ysabel Delgado and Diego Bañuelos (widowed of Maria Benavides) had legitimate sons as Antonio and Francisco.

In reply to by jrefugioghermosillo

Comment

Side note, Manny were you able to go through the whole thread? Do you agree on the proposed genealogy?

Comment

Hi Alex,

Thanks for the Juan de Benavides will, I’ve been meaning to check that family out.

Regarding David’s proposal, this latest piece of the puzzle, that Luis de Benavides was married to Andrea Cortes, has stirred my coals a bit, and has changed what I thought about this thread, and what I’ve proposed in others.

First, it gives us an idea of when Luis de Benavides and Andrea Cortes lived, if she was born around 1540. From the timelines, I’d say they are the parents of Geronima de Benavides cc Gonzalo Yañez, and therefore, he was brother of Geronimo de Benavides, and she, likely a sister of his wife, Catalina Cortes. That’s still speculation, but given the small number of Spanish families/ eligible partners living in the area during those early years, I don’t think it’s that far off.

DISPENSA DE GASPAR LOMELIN cc MARIA MEDINILLA

All of this got me thinking, about how in some of these old documents, the word “hermano” was used for “cuñado.” With that in mind, I took a new

In reply to by jrefugioghermosillo

Comment

Thank you Manny for all your work. I agree with you that “Catalina Cortes” now stands out like a sore thumb”. This would explain calling her an hermana.

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

In reply to by jrefugioghermosillo

Comment

Just a cursory look at your response, I have a much different genealogy. I have (prior to this new info):

Diego Benavides* parent of:
1. Geronimo Benavides cc. Catalina Cortes parents of
.i. Juan Benavides cc? resulting in an Aguayo branch
.ii.Catalina Cortes cc? leading to Lomelin and Paez branch
.iii. Geronima Benavides cc? leading to Moscoso y Sandoval and Ortiz/Arambulo branch
.iv. Luis Benavides cc? (Andrea Cortes proposed) leading to Yanez and unknown child leading to Jacinta de Cuevas

*I have no confirmation that Diego is the father of Geronimo Benavides

I have not done a timeline analysis as of yet.

Could you explain this bit "From the timelines, I’d say they are the parents of Geronima de Benavides cc Gonzalo Yañez, and therefore, he was brother of Geronimo de Benavides, and she, likely a sister of his wife, Catalina Cortes."

I'm curious if the geneaologies/timelines resolve themselves with Geronimo Benavides and Catalina Cortes having a daughter named Catalina Cortes

Comment

​Hi Alex,

I'm ignoring everything that I think I know about these lines. I'm basing this genealogy on the Gaspar Lomelin/Maria Medinilla dispensa, which names Luis Benavides, Geronima Benavides and Catalina Cortes as siblings. My argument is that this is the 1st generation of these families, and that Catalina Cortes does not belong here, but her husband, Geronimo Benavides.

From what I can tell, Geronima Benavides cc Gonzalo Yanez, Maria Benavides cc Carlos Lomellini and her sister Geronima Benavides cc Francisco Paez were contemporaries, born around the same time, 1590-1600.

Thanks,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

In reply to by jrefugioghermosillo

Comment

Manny,

Where do you put Catalina Cortes who married Juan Moscoso y Sandoval in this new genealogy?

Alex

Comment

The reason I ask is because removing the idea that Geronimo and Catalina had a daughter named Catalina in the manner I stated previously changes which families may use the name "Catalina Cortes" in their descendants (previously having Geronimo and Catalina at the very top gave all the branches the "right" to use the name Catalina Cortes).

I'm trying to see if this proposed genealogy is in agreement with which branches use Catalina Cortes and further if it is in agreement with other dispensas

Alex

Comment

Ok I have been able to go to the documentation and I must say this stuff is very impressive!

Some comments and questions:

I agree that Geronimo de Benavides and Catalina Cortes had the four children you have compiled. I have no spouses confirmed for the four children. Can you provide insight as to how you have confirmed Isabel de Silva as the wife of Juan Benavides?

Re. Dispensa #1: It was weird the ascendancy of Maria Yanez was not discussed. Her father Juan was a sibling (maybe half sibling) of Jacinta de Oliva. How have you confirmed the ascendancy of Lucas Lomelin to Carlos Lomelin and Maria Benavides?

Re. Dispensa #3: How have you established that Joseph Lomelin is son of the same Domingo Lomelin wed to Juana de Mendoza?

Re. Dispensa #6: How did you confirm the parents of Francisca Duran. I have her parents being Juan Duran and Regina Aguayo but that is only because Los Altos de Jalisco by Sergio Gutierrez show Juan Duran and Regina Aguayo having a daughter named Francesca

Comment

Re. Dispensa 6: I have answered my own question using the dispensa Manny provided on his thread.

1605
Nochistlán. Zac. Junio 17 de 1730. Exp. 38 - Dispensa de cuarto grado de
consanguinidad - Joseph Thadeo Casillas, español de 22 años de edad, oríginano
y vecino de este Curato, hijo legítimo de Vicente Casillas y de Agustina Gómez,
difunta; con María de Aguayo, española de 40 años de edad, originaria y vecina
de este Curato, hija legítima de Bernardino de Aguayo y de Magdalena de la
Dueña, difuntos. ¡Declaración del pretenso; Por ser bisnietos ambos de dos
hermanos que lo fueron Antonio y Regina de Aguayo. Regina tuvo por hija a
Francisca Duran, y Francisca tuvo por hijo a Vicente Casillas. Vicente tuvo por
hijo a Joseph Thadeo pretenso, y Antonio de Aguayo, tuvo por hijo a Antonio de
Aguayo. Antonio tuvo por hijo a Bernardino de Aguayo. Bernardino tuvo por hija a
María de Aguayo pretensa. Se otorgó la dispensa en la Ciudad de Guadalajara. en
4 de juüo de 1730. 11 fojas.

The

Comment

Alex,

Does this mean that Juan Benavides wife was named Aguayo, also since you mention Antonio de Aguayo and Diego de Aguayo, do you think they descend from the conquistadors Antonio de Aguayo, who also had a brother named Diego de Aguayo, mentioned here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=8IpnAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA3&dq=%22Aguayo,…

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Danny,

We cannot say with certainty with Juan Benavides wife's last name is.

Additional comment:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TH98-1Q?i=89&wc=3P9N-VZ9%3…

In the marriage of Diego de Aguayo son of Diego de Aguayo and Isabel Vergara to Isabel Perez daughter of Sebastian de la Cruz Bermejo and Andrea Gonzalez, there are two witnesses:

Diego Sandoval married to Maria Delgadillo and Antonio Legaspi married to Magdalena Sandoval.

Antonio Legaspi states that the Diego de Aguayo to be wed is his wife's "primo en tercer grado"

The tree would look like:

Geronimo Benavides and Catalina Cortes
Geronima Benavides ----------1--- Juan Benavides (Isabel de Silva)
Catalina Cortes--------------2--- Diego de Aguayo (Isabel Arizaga)
Cecilia Vasquez de Sandoval--3--- Diego de Aguayo (Isabel Perez)
Magdalena Sandoval-----------4

Is this a primo en terco grado relationship? If so its further confirmation of this theory

Comment

Hi Alex,

I have a very hard time understanding the relationships on the dispensa's and really have difficulty following the trees, but I'm trying to see if this changes the relationships of my ancestor Juana Vasquez de Sandoval, daughter of Juan Moscoso y Sandoval and Catalina Cortes and wife of Andres Duran, son of Juan Simon Duran and Regina de Aguayo. Who are they saying Catalina Cortes (wife of Juan Moscoso) is the daughter of? And, who are they saying Regina de Aguayo (wife of Juan Duran) is the daughter of?

Paige

Comment

I've been working on this all weekend and this is a very solid theory. I am to the point where I am comfortable putting this information in my own tree.

The sole primary source that I know of that appears to affect the theory is the mention that Diego de Aguayo is Regina's grandfather (See Re. Aguayo connection). This made me question as to if Andres Duran was actually the child of Juan Duran and Regina Aguayo. And if there was an Aguayo line that was being tangled up in this mess.

I looked to disprove or prove this fact on my own. I ended up disproving that Diego de Aguayo, the witness in the IM is not the grandfather of Regina Aguayo, daughter of Andres and Juana Vasquez de la Ascencion (I still have no idea who Diego de Aguayo is though). I assume here that everyone is in agreement that the parents of Juana Vasquez de la Ascencion's parents are Juan Moscoso y Sandoval and Catalina Cortes so the question is who are Andres Duran's parents?

Dispensa #A: Here is a dispensa for Lucas

Comment

Danny,

Im saying that provided additional proof that Juan Duran is the father of Andres Duran! And added that Diego de Aguayo is not Andres' father according to the records.

Alex

Comment

Danny,

Im saying that provided additional proof that Juan Duran is the father of Andres Duran! And added that Diego de Aguayo is not Andres' father according to the records.

Alex

Comment

I believe the source of the confusion is this paragraph, which I cannot edit:

"I looked to disprove or prove this fact on my own. I ended up disproving that Diego de Aguayo, the witness in the IM is not the grandfather of Regina Aguayo, daughter of Andres and Juana Vasquez de la Ascencion (I still have no idea who Diego de Aguayo is though). I assume here that everyone is in agreement that the parents of Juana Vasquez de la Ascencion's parents are Juan Moscoso y Sandoval and Catalina Cortes so the question is who are Andres Duran's parents?"

It should read:

I looked to disprove or prove this fact on my own. I ended up PROVING that Diego de Aguayo, the witness in the IM is NOT the grandfather of Regina Aguayo, daughter of Andres and Juana Vasquez de la Ascencion (I still have no idea who Diego de Aguayo is though). I assume here that everyone is in agreement that the parents of Juana Vasquez de la Ascencion's parents are Juan Moscoso y Sandoval and Catalina Cortes so the question is

Comment

Alex, thank you, I wasn't sure. and i agree with Paige, sometimes the dispensas are too hard to follow with so many of the same people with the same names. But I do agree this is great research. David and you have really put a lot of effort at solving this.

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Danny

The trick for me in analyzing the proposed genealogy was to go through all the dispensas cited in the original post and draw the trees using only the information provided in the dispensas. After you have done that, it all really falls into place quite elegantly despite there being individuals with the same name.

Its those secondary sources that messed with the Benavides line!

Alex

Comment

Hi Alex,

I know the question was asked whether Juan Benavides was married to an Aguayo and you said that we can't say for sure what his wife's name was, but, it looks like at some points in the thread that Ysabel de Silva is married to Juan Benavides, is that right?

Mia M.

Comment

I should preface that I am no expert in the Aguayo genealogy. I've only really dove into it since this was posted.

Here are the facts:

There is a marriage record for a Diego de Aguayo son of Isabel de Silva, widow, marrying Isabel Beatriz, daughter of Isabel, widow.

ASSUMING Isabel Beatriz of the marriage record is Isabel Vergara Arziaga, then Juan Benavides married Isabel de Silva.

Adding further evidence to this theory is that a grandaughter of Juan Benavidez and unconfirmed Isabel de Silva is Isabel Aguayo who married Miguel Gutierrez. She uses both the Aguayo and Silva surname. (Silva surname is used in the marriage of their son Pedro to Maria Rodriguez in 1671, sorry I don't have links to the documents at the moment).

Comment

245Luigi:

There are several dispensations that confirm that: Diego de Aguayo (husband of Ysabel de Arizaga), Antonio de Aguayo (husband of Luisa de Isla), and Regina de Aguayo (wife of Juan Ximon Duran) are siblings. We know from the marriage of Diego de Aguayo to Ysabel de Arizaga, dated 18 May 1633, that Diego de Aguayo's mother (and ultimately Diego, Antonio, and Regina de Aguayo's mother) is named as "Ysabel de Silva" and that she is a widow.

In my Dispensas 5, 6, and 7, we have Ysabel de Aguayo, Carlos Casillas, and Maria Duran who are all described as being related in the 4th degree to Petronila de Isla, Magdalena Sandoval, and Juan Sandoval. We already know that Petronila de Isla, Magdalena Sandoval, and Juan Sandoval, are all grandchildren of Catalina Cortes (III) (wife of Juan Moscoso de Sandoval)-- who is the daughter of Geronima de Benavides (I) as per my Despensas 1 & 2. That left open the question: What 4th degree ancestor did Ysabel de Aguayo, Carlos Casillas, and

Comment

ALSO:

Ysabel de Silva/Aguayo is confirmed as per the following dispensa:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VT92-DP?mode=g&i=86&cc=187…

Tree:
Trunk: Juan de Benavides & Ysabel de Silva
Antono de Aguayo-1-Regina de Aguayo
Ysabel de Silva/Aguayo-2-Maria Duran
Pedro Gutierrez-3-Nicolas Munoz
Juan Gutierrez-4-Nicolasa Munoz

Comment

David,

Thank you for adding this additional explanation to your already excellent research. Now, this all makes complete sense. This is amazing work. Thank you also Alex for answering many of my questions. Excellent job everyone.

Paige

Comment

Thank you for the very thorough response. Could you please explain the confirmation for Isabel de Silva in the 2nd paragraph of your reply?

I agree via primary source that Diego de Aguayo (husband of Ysabel de Arizaga), Antonio de Aguayo (husband of Luisa de Isla), and Regina de Aguayo (wife of Juan Ximon Duran) are siblings and children of Juan Benavides. I dont understand how the dispensas tie in Isabel de Silva. For example is Juan Benavides was married to another woman besides Isabel de Silva, the dispensas would read the same.

There is the marriage of Diego de Aguayo son of Isabel Silva marrying Isabel Beatriz but there isnt enough info in it to claim this is the marriage of Diego de Aguayo and Isabel de Arizaga Vergara. I actually believe this is their marriage record, I'm just curious if there is a primary source tying Isabel Silva to the siblings. The fact a granddaughter uses the name Isabel Silva really convinces me.

Side Question: I dont have any documents including

Comment

Danny:

Hypothetically, Ysabel de Silva (wife of Juan de Benavides) could be the daughter of an Aguayo and a Silva. However, we need some kind of primary evidence for this. It would be hard to say exactly where Aguayo is coming from at this point. It may come from further back in Juan or Ysabel's pedigrees then we currently know of. Such was the case with Ynes Martinez Baca/Isla (wife of Cristobal Mexia) who was carrying the name of her great-grandmother Ynes Martinez Baca (wife of Juan Lozano).

--------------------

Alex:

The dispensas do not tie to Ysabel de Silva because they do not pass through her, per se. I am using the 1633 marriage of Diego de Aguayo, which names his mother as Ysabel de Silva. I am also using the fact that Antonio de Aguayo and Luisa de Isla's daughter uses the name Ysabel de Silva as confirmation that Antonio, Diego, and Regina's mother is also named Ysabel de Silva.

Andres de Cueva appears as the husband of Maria de Benavides when they are Padrinos to

Comment

Thank you again for the reply and clarifying all of the available sources. I'm seeing the same thing and making the same conclusions. Great work! I've changed my tree to reflect this updated genealogy.

Some more pieces for the puzzle:

There is the Catalina Cortes who passed away in 1652 who you discussed in the original post. I'm betting she is the Catalina Cortes who is the mother of Maria Benavides (Carlos Lomelin) and grandmother of Francisco Paez (Francisca Sanchez Carranza).

In the 1649 Census of Nochistlan, Maria Benavides cc (Carlos Lomelin) is a widow and in her household are:
Maria de Lomelin cc and her husband Nicolas de Contreras cc (explictly stated)
Juana Lomelin N
Ines de Contreras N
Jose de Lomelin N
Catalina Cortes cc, widow

cc = confession and communion, c = confession, N = none (this assists in giving an indication of age)

Source: Los Altos de Jalisco, Padrones Parroquiales Del Siglo XVII, By Sergio Gutierrez, Vol 1, Pg 27.

Given the updated genealogy, I

Comment

Alex and David

This answer makes me wonder something. Since we know there's multiple Catalina Cortés's and multiple Benavides with the same name and since it seems like Ysabel de Silva is the wife of Juan de Benavides and mother of Regina de Aguayo and the other Aguayos and it seems unlikely that Juan de Benavides is the actual source of Aguayo, could it be that there actually is a Diego de Aguayo married to an Ysabel de Silvia and that the Ysabel de Silvia that's married to Juan de Benavides is actually the daughter of the first Ysabel de Silva?

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Its great that this has been reworked! I havent been able to sit down and review it yet but I'm very excited to do so!

Comment

Thanks to David, Manny Ronnie, and others for straightening out this mess. I descend from most, if not all, of these lines multiple times. I really appreciate the work done to straighten out these lines. the mess that secondary sources made of these lines is similar to the mess many secondary sources made with the Pantoja Merlo lines.

Thanks again,
Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Genealogist

thank you for your research. i think a lot of it makes sense but i think some of it like the part where Juan Benavides is the patriarch of the Aguayo family seems unusual. i would really like to hear what Manny Diez has to say about this post. also, i want to know what you think of the conquistador Antonio de Aguayo, who also had a brother named Diego de Aguayo, and what you think his relationship is to these Aguayo's. Antonio de Aguayo was a conqueror of Nueva Galicia:

https://books.google.com/books?id=8IpnAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA3&dq=%22Aguayo,…

Danny C. Alonso

Testamentaria de Aguascalientes de las Familias Gallardo, Gil, Macías de Ortega, Quezada, Salas de Bonilla, etc.

Hola amigos, desde hace tiempo quiero conseguir algunos testamentos para mi investigación genealógica y no se como conseguirlos, no se si ustedes me pueden proporcionar ayuda en este sentido.

Quiero conseguir el testamento de Francisco Gil, que murió en 1720 y que testó ante Don Baltazar de Aguilera. También quisiera saber donde y como conseguir memorias extrajudiciales, no se si existen todavía o no.

Comments

Comment

Request from Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez (translated by Jaime)

Hello friends, for some time I've been trying to find certain wills for my genealogical research but I do not know where to find them. Maybe someone in the group could help me in this matter.

I would like to find the last will and testament of Francisco Gil, who died in 1720, witnessed by Don Baltazar de Aguilera. Also, I would like to know how and\or where would 'extra-judicial memoirs' would be archived, or whether they exist at all.

I am also interested on information of certain families from Aguascalientes, such as the ancestors of:

Simón Salas de Bonilla and Nicolasa de Anda Altamirano.
Sebastiana López de Estrada, wife of José Macías de Ortega.
Antonio Macías de Ortega and Rosa María de Quezada.
María de la Cruz, wife of Pedro Salas de Bonilla.
Francisco Gil and María Magdalena Gallardo.
Agustín Marín de Peñaloza and Jacinta de Villalobos.

I also descend from other well known families from Aguascalientes

Comment

Hi Jorge, if you want to get a hold of any wills (also called Bienes de Difuntos, Documentos Notariales and Testamentos). You need to see the microfilm. Unfortunatly they are not available through the Family History Center, you need to go to Salt Lake directly, where they have them in the library and the Vault. Here you can find all wills made in El Obispado de la Nueva Galicia. OR if your lucky someone in the group might have a couple I know I have the will for Pedro Romo de Vivar and Álvaro de Ornellas, if you want it. I do know that in Retoños de España include several wills but not all. Hope this helps. -Daniel Camino

TitleBienes de difuntos : de la Real Audiencia de Guadalajara, Jalisco, México, 1549-1885
AuthorsReal Audiencia de Guadalajara (México) (Main Author)
NotesMicrofilmación de manuscritos en la Biblioteca Pública del Estado de Jalisco en Guadalajara, Jalisco, México.Microfilmes de reducción 42x. Use un lector con lente de alta ampliación.Por la antiguedad de los

Comment

Hola Jorge,
Rvevise tu arbol otra vez y encontre que tienes a Juan Jose padilla sin Estevan. El nombre es Juan Jose Esteban Padilla Cobarubias nacido/Bautizado el15/ag/1794 este es el nombre del esposo de ma. gert. saturnina Gonz. casillas. Yo tambien desciendo de ellos. una hermana de anastacio Padilla Gonz is Maria Victoria Padilla Gonz. la abuela paterna de mi abuela paterna, Lucila De la torre Rodriguez.

revise tu familia, yo tambien desciendo de jose domingo padilla y Perez de Paredes y maria juliana cobarubias Gonzalez Rubio. Tambien desciendo de Salvador Ygnacio Ramirez de Hermosillo y Gutierrez de Laris Y Josefa martin del Campo y Perez de Paredes

Me podrias decir se tienes informacion sobre Josef Antonio Cobarubias casado con Ynes Gpe Gomez el 30 de marzo 1750 en Guad El es el abuelo paterno de Juliana

Tambien quiero juntar toda la informacion de los descendietes de Salvador Ramirez y Josefa Martin. Muchas de las familias Vallalupenses y familias de Pegueros que se

Comment

Hola R.A.Ricci ayer me la pasé buscando el matrimonio de Manuel Marín de Peñaloza y Teresa de Alba que tengo de 22 de sep 1718 en Teocaltiche, pero no la encuentro, es mas, ni en el IGI encontré matrimonios en esa fecha, no se ni de donde la saqué, algo raro.

En cuanto a la información que me pides de José Antonio de Covarrubias e Ines de Guadalupe Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza, tengo que José Antonio fue bautizado el 13 de junio de 1726 en Cuquío, hijo de José de Covarrubias y Leonor Sánchez de Porras. Ines bautizada el 02 de febrero de 1723 en Jalostotitlán, hija de Gregorio Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza y Luisa Padilla Dávila.

Me gustaría saber tu ascendencia en las ramas que tenemos en común, y en cuanto a los descendientes de Salvador Ignacio Ramírez de Hermosillo y María Josefa de San Leonardo Martín del Campo, es la rama de mas interés para mi, ya que es mi primer apellido el Ramírez. Además de que desciendo de manera directa de 4 hijos de Salvador y Josefa. Tengo 12 hijos de este

Comment

Hola Jorge,
somos primos cercanos muchas veces por que yo desciendo de salvador y josefa por mi madre y tambien de juan jose esteban padilla. y saturnina Gonzalez por mi padre.

Mis notas no tienen esa fecha (22/sep/1718) pero me tienes en duda. voy a seguir investigando. Voy a sacar el rollo de teocaltiche de este ano para ver que dice.

Me falta investigar los sanchez porra, leonor casado con Jose Covarrubias y tambien Catalina Sanchez porras casada con Francisco Martin del Campo el 24/dec/1698, santa ma lagos lagos de moreno
Tambien voy a tener que investigar los covarrubias
me falta tambien sacar la act de Francisco Munoz de la barba casado con Maria de Jesus Vallejo 11/jan/1741 en tepatitlan
Estoy juntando los vallejos de nuestra familia con los vallejos de california que se venieron al norte mas de dos cientos anos y ayudaron establecer California como Estado de estados unidos. Yo desciendo de estos vallejos cuatro veces.

Hay un gran misterio con los casillas de teposanes

Comment

Hola Ricci, de los Sánchez de Porras que preguntas tengo lo siguiente:

Catalina es hija de Dionisio Sánchez de Porras y Nicolasa Galván de Rojas. Dionisio es hijo de Jerónimo Sánchez de Porras y Leonor González de Hermosillo. Jerónimo es hijo de Diego Sánchez de Porras y Elvira Sánchez.

Leonor Sánchez de Porras es hija de Alejandro Sánchez de Porras y Francisca Álvarez de Luna. Alejandro es hijo de Jerónimo y Leonor, antes mencionados.

En cuanto a los Casillas que mencionas yo también sigo la misma línea que tu, la de José Tomás Casillas y Cabrera y María Gertrudis Salgado de la Paz. Ya había notado que otros manejan otra línea, además de que en el libro de Don Mariano González Leal así lo dice, pero yo sigo la misma línea que tu.

José Tomás es hijo Juan Manuel Casillas y Cabrera y Juana María Valdivia, casados en Jalostotitlán el 23 de junio de 1726, pero hasta ahí tengo porque no he revisado esa acta.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

____________________________

Comment

No es la primera vez que he encontrado un error en el libro de Mariano Gonzalez Leal. Pero el y Jaime Holcombe son los "mejores" genealogos en nuestras familias. Ellos han hecho mucho trabajo y bien hecho. aunque son los mejores yo trato de revisar y analizar todo porque es muy facil hacer un error por estar cansado de tanto trabajar. La genealogia es mucho trabajo si lo haces bien. La gente que apenas empesaron a estudiar sus familias no saben todo lo que han tenido que trabajar los genealogos antes de la computadora. Si yo hubiera empesado hace poquitos anos no sabria donde y que buscar por la materia mas complicada.

José Tomás Casillas y Cabrera y María Gertrudis Salgado de la Paz vivian con nuestras familias y los otros vivian mas lejos. Los Villalpando era tambien de la misma area y los otro villalpando era de mas lejos. La otra linea no va con lo que me informo el abuelo del Chirol, que en paz descanse. Cuando yo lo conoci hace muchos anos el era muy viejo pero todavia tenia

Comment

Todos tenemos errores en nuestros trabajos, lo importante es saber reconocerlos y corregirlos, yo en mis investigaciones también me he encontrado con problemas así, pero trato de corregirlos.

En cuanto al trabajo de Jaime Holcombe lo desconozco, el que si conozco es el de Mariano González Leal, una gran obra, muy completa. A el lo conozco personalmente y es una persona muy amable y atenta, un ejemplo a seguir en muchos aspectos.

Nicolás Lomelí y Casilda de los Dolores González casaron en Ocotlán el 06 de febrero de 1746, pero no he revisado el acta.

Yo tampoco encuentro información de Clemente de la Torre Ledezma y María Alejandra de la Torre Ledezma, padres de José María.

Ignacio Javier de la Torre Ledezma y María Rufina Aldrete García casaron en Tepatitlán el 24 de octubre de 1770. El es hijo de Juan Antonio Cruz de la Torre Ledezma y María de la Concepción Ramírez de Hermosillo; ella es hija de Pedro Pastor Aldrete de la Mora y Juana Antonia Ramírez García.

Y es un

Comment

La madre de serapia es maria del refugio gomez gomez

el padre de maria del refugio es Juan Jose Gomez Suazo Carmona

La madre de Juan Jose es Maria casilda de los dolores Carmona Suazo y Lomelin

La madre de dolores es Maria Paula Petrona Lomelin y Gonzalez

Los padres de Paula Lomelin son Nicolas Lomelin y Casilda de los Dolores Gonzalez

Creo que se quienes son los padres, abuelos y bisabuelos de Nicolas pero necesito esa acta para comprobarlo
no quiero nombrar esa informacion hasta que este comprobado.
Gracias, ricci

P.S.Tengo fechas y mas datos sobre esta gente que te mando despues

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 9:43 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Todos tenemos errores en nuestros trabajos, lo importante es saber reconocerlos y corregirlos, yo en mis investigaciones también me he encontrado con problemas así, pero

Comment

Gracias Ricci, no te molestes en mandarme la información de los Lomelí y familia, mejor mándame lo que tengas de los Ramírez de Hermosillo, es lo que mas me interesa, todo sobre ésta familia es importante para mí, ya que tengo pensado editar un libro sobre la familia, con datos genealógicos, biografías, fotografías, testamentos, intestamentarias, ý demás.

Hace unos días me comentaste que tenías informaciones matrimoniales de algunos hijos de Salvador Ramírez y Josefa Martín, y me interesó mucho obtener esos documentos. Podrás proporcionarme esos documentos.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
Chatea en Messenger desde Hotmail.
http://download.live.com/messenger

Comment

Yo te doy todo sobre esta familia. Yo estaba pensando hacer ese mismo libro pero mejor te doy toda mi informacion para asistir en ese libro de los ramirez. Muchos de la gente aqui en california descendemos de esa pareja. Tengo mucha informacion. voy a empesar a juntar estos datos. creo que te los voy a tener que mandar por correo regular.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 10:29 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Gracias Ricci, no te molestes en mandarme la información de los Lomelí y familia, mejor mándame lo que tengas de los Ramírez de Hermosillo, es lo que mas me interesa, todo sobre ésta familia es importante para mí, ya que tengo pensado editar un libro sobre la familia, con datos genealógicos, biografías, fotografías, testamentos, intestamentarias, ý demás.

Hace unos días me comentaste que tenías informaciones matrimoniales

Comment

Cuál es tu primer apellido? Se me hace curioso que quieras editar un libro sobre los Ramírez sin apellidar Ramírez. También he pensado en editar el de Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza por ser mi segundo apellido, pero creo que será un trabajo mas duro que el de los Ramírez; si de por sí ya llevo muchísima información de la familia Ramírez de Hermosillo he batallado un poco, porque es una familia muy extendida en San Miguel, Jalos, Tepa, Teocaltiche, León, Guadalajara, Jalapa, y en USA, pero poco a poco he obtenido mucha información.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_________________________________________________________________
Personaliza Messenger como tú quieras.
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Comment

La rason que yo queria ser un libro de los descendientes de salvador y josefa es porque es la pareja de parentesco de muchos de mis conocidos del valle que viven aqui en los angeles. es la rama tambien que se junta con mis amigos/primos lejanos Padilla martin de santa monica y los rodriguez garcia tambien de santa monica y muchos de los francos, ademas de muchos primos segundos que se apellidan ramirez.
Tienes la fecha de nscimiento o de bautizo de josefa?
Ricci

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 2:53 PM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Cuál es tu primer apellido? Se me hace curioso que quieras editar un libro sobre los Ramírez sin apellidar Ramírez. También he pensado en editar el de Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza por ser mi segundo apellido, pero creo que será un trabajo mas duro que el de los Ramírez; si de por sí ya llevo muchísima

Comment

Yo tengo la informacion de los alderete y de la mora zamora
Tambien tengo la informacion de juan antonio de la cruz de la torre pero no de su esposa no mas la tengo nombrada como Juana Antonia Garcia. de donde viene lo Ramirez? Tienes a sus padres?
Gracias, ricci

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 9:43 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Todos tenemos errores en nuestros trabajos, lo importante es saber reconocerlos y corregirlos, yo en mis investigaciones también me he encontrado con problemas así, pero trato de corregirlos.

En cuanto al trabajo de Jaime Holcombe lo desconozco, el que si conozco es el de Mariano González Leal, una gran obra, muy completa. A el lo conozco personalmente y es una persona muy amable y atenta, un ejemplo a seguir en muchos aspectos.

Nicolás Lomelí y Casilda de los Dolores González casaron en Ocotlán el

Comment

Muchos del valle descendemos de las muchas hijas de jose de santiago aceves y Juana de san juana o Maria de san Juan Padilla hija de Francisco Padilla y josefa

De francisco Padilla y josefa no tengo mas informacion

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 11:08 AM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Yo tengo la informacion de los alderete y de la mora zamora
Tambien tengo la informacion de juan antonio de la cruz de la torre pero no de su esposa no mas la tengo nombrada como Juana Antonia Garcia. de donde viene lo Ramirez? Tienes a sus padres?
Gracias, ricci

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 9:43 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Todos tenemos errores en nuestros trabajos, lo importante es

Comment

Hola Ricci, me gustaría saber si éste José de Santiago de Aceves es el que yo tengo como José Policarpio de Aceves, quien casó con María de San Juan Padilla? Si es así, no tengo información de ellos, también he estado investigando sobre ellos, pero no encuentro nada.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

Muchos del valle descendemos de las muchas hijas de jose de santiago aceves y Juana de san juana o Maria de san Juan Padilla hija de Francisco Padilla y josefa De francisco Padilla y josefa no tengo mas informacion

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Comment

Platicame mas de tu jose policarpio de aseves. de quien es papa. quienes son sus padres. el jose de santiago aseves que yo tengo es nuestro tatara abuelo. tu desciendos de esta pareja. yo si tengo informacionde los padres y abuelos de jose santiago. reecibi la parte del padre de jaime hjolcombe y yo descubri la parte de la madre y esa informacion la di hace unos dias cuando estaba buscando mas informacion sobre los aguilar solorzano y araiza.
si tengo mas informacion sobre Francisco Padilla y josefa pero no lo he combrado todavia. La informacion que intengo es de un francisco padilla casado con una josefa en este tiempo y lugar pero no he confirmado que ellos son necesito sacar una acta para confirmalo y se de cuatro actas que lo podrian confirmar. Yo preguntaba por si alguien ya lo hubiera confirmado.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 7:39 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re:

Comment

Jorge Luis and ricardo rodriguez will be happy to learn that I was correct about the casillas villalpando error in all the genealogy books that I have seen. I have proven that the correct casillas villalpando couple was the one from Jalos. Repeat this has been confirmed.
I see a genealogy posted by one of our nuestros rancho members that has at least 2 major errors I have tried to contact him but he has not returned emails. I have comfirmed these errors. I do not want to harass anyone so if i email you to communicate and you do not respond i will stop at least by the third time. I do not contact people to tell them they are in error if it is just difference of an opinion . If I tell them they are in error it is because I have confirmed the error through primary sources.
I would hope that anyone finding me in error would contact me and stop me from continuing on in the wrong direction.
If you do not want to look, analyze, and respond to what you post just drop me an email and tell

In reply to by R.A.Ricci (not verified)

Comment

francisco casillas villalpando married to lorenza Gutierrez Martiin 25/feb/1811in Tepa lists his parents as jose maria casillas and lugarda villalpando There are two Couples by this name married in 1788 and every genealogist that has written a book that i have read has mistakenly listd the wrong couple. I have confirmed that the jose maria casillas salgado ( son of jose thomas casillas and juana maria valdivia) and Leoguarda Manuela Villalpando Barba (daughter of salvador anastacio (Antonino) Villalpando and Josefa gertrudis Margarita Barba Vallejo) is the correct couple. I had not been able to confirm it until now .

I can not count how many times I do a favor for some else by helping them with their genealogy that results in me finding something that adds to my personal tree. That was the case here. my niece amy asked me the day before yesterday about her dads tree. He is casillas from pegueros. I explained to her that her mother,( my sister) and her father were distant cousins

In reply to by R.A.Ricci (not verified)

Comment

Hi tocayo, can you please tell us what these two dates are so we can compare
our notes with yours? I have Jose Thomas Casillas and Maria Gertrudis
Salgado as Jose Maria Casillas Salgado's parents, and Salvador de
Villalpando and Josefa Margarita Muñoz de la Barba as Maria Lugarda's
parents (film # 279298). I have Jose Maria and Maria Lugarda's marriage date
as May 7, 1788 in Jalos, they were both from Catachimé, close to Cañadas de
Obregón.

Thanks

Rick

In reply to by Rodriguez_de_Frias

Comment

That is correct. most genealogy books have the jose maria Casillas married to lugarda villalpando from ayo el chico/arandas as the parents. both couples married in 1788.Even you had that info until I told you that I speculated that it was wrong based on the info I had but that I did not have proof. I have that proof now. the other Jose maria casillas was the son of Jose de san Ramon Casillas and Magdalena Gonzalez Hermosillo

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricardo Rodriguez
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 8:04 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] genealogy errors

Hi tocayo, can you please tell us what these two dates are so we can compare
our notes with yours? I have Jose Thomas Casillas and Maria Gertrudis
Salgado as Jose Maria Casillas Salgado's parents, and Salvador de
Villalpando and Josefa Margarita Muñoz de la Barba as Maria Lugarda's
parents (film # 279298). I have Jose Maria and Maria Lugarda's

In reply to by R.A.Ricci (not verified)

Comment

Rick, I'm confused, you mentioned the parents of Jose Maria Casillas Salgado as Jose Thomas Casillas and Juana Maria Valdivia yet Ricardo has the mother as Maria Gertrudis Salgado??
----- Original Message -----
From: Ricci, Richard
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] genealogy errors

That is correct. most genealogy books have the jose maria Casillas married to lugarda villalpando from ayo el chico/arandas as the parents. both couples married in 1788.Even you had that info until I told you that I speculated that it was wrong based on the info I had but that I did not have proof. I have that proof now. the other Jose maria casillas was the son of Jose de san Ramon Casillas and Magdalena Gonzalez Hermosillo

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricardo Rodriguez
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 8:04 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re:

In reply to by R.A.Ricci (not verified)

Comment

i would like to communicate any casillas that is related to Victoria casillas and virginia gutierrez de casillas.
I used to visit Virginia Gutierrez de Casillas and her daughter Amparo and have long conversations with them.
Amparo Casillas and Virginia Gutierrez de casillas gave me a lot of their family information and I recorded all of it. They were very happy to see me follow up on the information extend their lines. I provided them copies of my work on their family. Unfortunately, the casillas villalpando errror that is repeated in all the books is in the work that I gave them. I would like to help them with the corrected work that I have on their family.

Virginia Gutierrez de Casillas and her daughter Amparo Casillas were good friends to second cousins of mine and their mother who was my father's first cousin. They introduced me to one of my second cousins who comes from my branch of the family that went to mexico city. Their mother was married(his 2nd marriage) to the

Comment

Tengo a siete hijo de José Policarpio de Aceves y María de San Juan Padilla:

1.- María de Jesús, mujer de Juan José Ramírez Gutiérrez.

2.- José Coronado de los Dolores.

3.- María Margarita, mujer de Eusebio Franco Gómez.

4.- María Vicenta de la Merced, mujer de José María Barba.

5.- María Paula, mujer Pablo Ignacio Gómez Gómez, y de Gabriel Franco Cárdenas en segundas nupcias.

6.- Anastasio, esposo de María Lorenza Franco Rodríguez.

7.- Nepomucena, mujer de Gerardo Gómez Pérez.

No se, pero creo que hablamos de la misma persona.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comment

Son los mismos pero hay poquitas diferencias en nuestra informacion.
Yo tengo como esposo de Maria de san juan padilla con el nombre de Jose Santiago Saines pero entiendo porque la diferencia. Santiago no es medio nombre pero parte del apellido por su madre
Jose (Policarpio) Saines de Santiago lo tengo como bautizado 6/aug/1775 en san juan de los lagos y hijo de Luis salvador aceves y maria gertrudis Saines de Santiago tengo mas informacion sobre antepasados
Tambien tengo mas hijos y fechas. Yo tengo a 9 hijos
A Vicenta yo la tengo como Maria Victoria de la Merced
De los padres de Maria de san juan Padilla no mas tengo confirmado que el se llamaba Francisco Padilla y ella josefa pero creo que he encontrado sus antepasados pero necesito confirmalos.

De los antepasados de maria serapia perez gomez:
Parece ser que Juan Climaco Suazo Carmona tuvo dos hijas llamadas Dolores y yo estaba investigando casilda de los dolores Suazo lomelin cuando serapia perez ahora parece descender de Maria

Comment

Ahora veo la diferencia, y si debe ser por el apellido Sainez de Santiago.

En cuanto a lo de María de los Dolores Suazo y Carmona, ahora que lo dices comparé la información y si debe ser hija del primer matrimonio, ya que sería muy chica para casar de 7 años (asi lo tengo yo) si fuera María Casilda de los Dolores la del segundo matrimonio.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comment

Fue por esa misma informacion, la edad de la Maria casilda de los dolores,que pense que tenia que revisar la informacion

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 10:20 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Ahora veo la diferencia, y si debe ser por el apellido Sainez de Santiago.

En cuanto a lo de María de los Dolores Suazo y Carmona, ahora que lo dices comparé la información y si debe ser hija del primer matrimonio, ya que sería muy chica para casar de 7 años (asi lo tengo yo) si fuera María Casilda de los Dolores la del segundo matrimonio.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comment

Yo no tenia dos:
Nepumucena
Anastacio
Tu no tienes cuatro:
Maria Antonia
Mariana
Ma. Ygnacia
Ma. de san Juan
Entonces hay once hijos ahora de jose Policarpio Aceves Saines de Santiago y de maria de san juan Padilla

Creo que francisco Padilla y josefa podrian ser Francisco gerardo Padilla Parada y Josefa Robles de Villa pero no he confirmado esto. ellos son del tiempo y de la area pero nesecito ver todas las actas de bautismo para haber que dicen sobre sus abuelos.
________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 7:17 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Tengo a siete hijo de José Policarpio de Aceves y María de San Juan Padilla:

1.- María de Jesús, mujer de Juan José Ramírez Gutiérrez.

2.- José Coronado de los Dolores.

3.- María Margarita, mujer de Eusebio Franco Gómez.

4.- María Vicenta de la Merced, mujer de José María Barba.

5.- María

Comment

Veré que puedo encontrar sobre ellos, trataré de seguir investigando esas personas.

Por cierto, desde el otro día quería preguntarte si tienes información del matrimonio de Felipe Lozano y Gertrudis Mercado, quienes debieron casar aprox. en 1740 mas o menos en Tepatitlán o San Juan de los Lagos.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comment

Y o tengo a un felipe Lozano que podria ser padre o abuelo del felipe lozano a quien buscas
Felipe Lozano, nacido en 1684 en Tepatitlan, hijo de Fulgencio Lozano y Juana Casillas cabrera casado con : Feliciana Ruiz de Velasco aceves, hija de Juan jose Aceves hermosillo y Luisa Magdalena Ruiz de Velasco( padre de luisa Cristobal hernandez gamino y Maria Ruiz de Velasco)

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 10:49 AM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Veré que puedo encontrar sobre ellos, trataré de seguir investigando esas personas.

Por cierto, desde el otro día quería preguntarte si tienes información del matrimonio de Felipe Lozano y Gertrudis Mercado, quienes debieron casar aprox. en 1740 mas o menos en Tepatitlán o San Juan de los Lagos.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

_____________________________________________________________

Comment

José de Covarrubias, esposo de Leonor Sánchez de Porras es hijo de José de Covarrubias y Leonor de Hermosillo. Ya no tengo mas datos de los Covarrubias, y Leonor de Hermosillo es hija de Pedro Franco de Paredes y Leonor de Hermosillo.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comment

Se me hizo curiouso la esposa de anastacio. es ella hija de jose maria nestor franco rodriguez y polonia rodriguez orosco? Creo que IGI esta mal en nombrar lo Nicolas Franco
y que informacion tienes sobre gerardo gomez perez?

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 10:44 AM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Yo no tenia dos:
Nepumucena
Anastacio
Tu no tienes cuatro:
Maria Antonia
Mariana
Ma. Ygnacia
Ma. de san Juan
Entonces hay once hijos ahora de jose Policarpio Aceves Saines de Santiago y de maria de san juan Padilla

Creo que francisco Padilla y josefa podrian ser Francisco gerardo Padilla Parada y Josefa Robles de Villa pero no he confirmado esto. ellos son del tiempo y de la area pero nesecito ver todas las actas de bautismo para haber que dicen sobre sus abuelos.
________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists

Comment

Mariana Aceves Padilla esta casada con Juan Jose garcia, hijo deAgustin Garcia y dolores Gutierrez (15/apr/1812) en JALOS
Maria antonia de gpe maria de san juan , y ma. ygnacia aseves padilla no se si se casaron

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 1:07 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Se me hizo curiouso la esposa de anastacio. es ella hija de jose maria nestor franco rodriguez y polonia rodriguez orosco? Creo que IGI esta mal en nombrar lo Nicolas Franco
y que informacion tienes sobre gerardo gomez perez?

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 10:44 AM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Yo no tenia dos:
Nepumucena
Anastacio
Tu no tienes cuatro:
Maria Antonia
Mariana
Ma. Ygnacia
Ma. de san Juan

Comment

Necesitas fechas de bautizo y matrimonios en los que ya tenias?

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 1:32 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Mariana Aceves Padilla esta casada con Juan Jose garcia, hijo deAgustin Garcia y dolores Gutierrez (15/apr/1812) en JALOS
Maria antonia de gpe maria de san juan , y ma. ygnacia aseves padilla no se si se casaron

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 1:07 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Se me hizo curiouso la esposa de anastacio. es ella hija de jose maria nestor franco rodriguez y polonia rodriguez orosco? Creo que IGI esta mal en nombrar lo Nicolas Franco
y que informacion tienes sobre gerardo gomez perez?

________________________________

From

Comment

Me falta la fecha de matrimonio de María de Jesús Aceves Padilla con Juan José Ramírez Gutiérrez, y las fechas de nacimiento de María Paula, Anastasio, Nepomucena, Mariana, María Antonia de Guadalupe, María de San Juan y María Ignacia. Solo tengo pocas fechas en ésta familia.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comment

si es cierto que maria de jesus aceves y juan jose ramirez gutierrez son los padres de los que nombras
es cierto que agustin ramirez y maria francisca Gutierrez tuvieron por lo menos a Juan Jose ramirez gutierrez y a jose maria ramirez gutierrez
es cierto que los padres de agustin ramirez son jose ramirez y juana manuela Luna
es cierto que los padres de Maria Francisca Gutierrez son Jose manuel gutierrez y Maria gertrudis Munoz
Maria Francisca Gutierrez se bautizo el 28 /oct/1756 in san Juan de los Lagos
la acta de jose geronimo ramirez y juana manuela luna y tapia dice que son indios los dos.

Los problemas:
No se encuentran las actas de matrimonio de maria de jesus aceves ni la de agustin con Francisa Gutierrez
Parece mas y mas que Agustin tuvo dos familias y que francisca gutierrez y dolores gutierrez son differentes personas.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 2:57 PM
To

Comment

Ahora que lo dices, revisé mi base de datos y creo que estás en lo cierto porque no creo que Agustín Ramírez y María Dolores Gutiérrez hayan esperado casi 20 años para volver a tener otro hijo, ya que José María Ramírez Gutiérrez nació en 1801, y María Benita y Luis Ramírez Gutiérrez casaron en 1802 y 1803 respectivamente.

Además María Benita y Luis aparecen como hijos de María Dolores Gutiérrez, y José María aparece como hijo de María Francisca Gutiérrez lo cual me hace pensar que estás en lo cierto, y son dos personas distintas.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comment

Lorenza la esposa de Anastasio si es hija de quien mencionas, solo que tengo una diferencia en el apellido de José María Nestor, tu lo tienes como Franco Rodríguez y yo como Franco Cárdenas.

De Gerardo Gómez Pérez tengo que es hijo de Ignacio Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza y María Ignacia Pérez Álvarez.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comment

perdona que lo escirivi entre medio de dos juntas. tu estas correcto Maria Lorenza, la hija, es la que lleva el apellido franco rodriguez de hijar
________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 2:53 PM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Lorenza la esposa de Anastasio si es hija de quien mencionas, solo que tengo una diferencia en el apellido de José María Nestor, tu lo tienes como Franco Rodríguez y yo como Franco Cárdenas.

De Gerardo Gómez Pérez tengo que es hijo de Ignacio Gómez Hurtado de Mendoza y María Ignacia Pérez Álvarez.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comment

Juana Antonia Ramírez García es hija de Antonio García de Hermosillo y Ana María Franco de Paredes, y lo Ramírez le viene por que como sabes los García de Hermosillo descienden de los Ramírez de Hermosillo, y en ocasiones aparecen como García y a veces como Ramírez. Pero recuerda que Juana Antonia es esposa de Pedro Aldrete, no de Juan Antonio de la Torre.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comment

Hola jorge,
pasame tu email para communicar como y a donde te mando los datos rricci@lausd.net
Gracias, Ricci
________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Thu 2/26/2009 2:48 PM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Juana Antonia Ramírez García es hija de Antonio García de Hermosillo y Ana María Franco de Paredes, y lo Ramírez le viene por que como sabes los García de Hermosillo descienden de los Ramírez de Hermosillo, y en ocasiones aparecen como García y a veces como Ramírez. Pero recuerda que Juana Antonia es esposa de Pedro Aldrete, no de Juan Antonio de la Torre.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

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Comment

Buenas tardes a todos.
Me podrían informar si Don Mariano Gonzalez ya publico la reedición de los
libros Retoños de España en Nueva Galicia que estaba programada para
diciembre pasada. De ser así, donde se pueden conseguir.
Cristóbal Villalobos

-----Mensaje original-----
De: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] En nombre de Jorge Luis
Ramírez Gómez
Enviado el: jueves, 26 de febrero de 2009 11:43 a.m.
Para: Nuestros Ranchos
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Todos tenemos errores en nuestros trabajos, lo importante es saber
reconocerlos y corregirlos, yo en mis investigaciones también me he
encontrado con problemas así, pero trato de corregirlos.

En cuanto al trabajo de Jaime Holcombe lo desconozco, el que si conozco es
el de Mariano González Leal, una gran obra, muy completa. A el lo conozco
personalmente y es una persona muy amable y atenta, un ejemplo a seguir en
muchos aspectos.

Nicolás Lomelí y

Comment

Was Dionicio Sanchez de Porras also married to Francisca Martin del Campo? What was the source of your information below?
----- Original Message -----
From: Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Hola Ricci, de los Sánchez de Porras que preguntas tengo lo siguiente:

Catalina es hija de Dionisio Sánchez de Porras y Nicolasa Galván de Rojas. Dionisio es hijo de Jerónimo Sánchez de Porras y Leonor González de Hermosillo. Jerónimo es hijo de Diego Sánchez de Porras y Elvira Sánchez.

Leonor Sánchez de Porras es hija de Alejandro Sánchez de Porras y Francisca Álvarez de Luna. Alejandro es hijo de Jerónimo y Leonor, antes mencionados.

En cuanto a los Casillas que mencionas yo también sigo la misma línea que tu, la de José Tomás Casillas y Cabrera y María Gertrudis Salgado de la Paz. Ya había notado que otros manejan otra línea, además de que en el

Comment

Maria del carmen es mi abuela materna, ella es hija de jose prospero perez y juana ramirez
prospero perez es hijo de jose melquiades perez y maria manuela de la trinidad alvarez franco
Melquiades es hijo de jose maria perez de paredes y Rafalela Ramirez
Rafaela ramirez es hija de Salbador Ygnacio Ramirez de Hermosillo y Gutierrez de Laris Y de Josefa Martin del campo Perez
Yo no sabia que Josefa se llamaba Maria Josefa de san Leonardo, encontraste su act de Bautismo?
yo tengo las ramas de todos menos los antepasados de jose covarrubias
de los hijos de josefa y salvador ygnacio tengo:
Maria Clara
rafaela
jose Ysidoro Nepomuceno
francisca
maria dolores
josefa
maria rosario
pedro jose

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez
Sent: Fri 2/20/2009 7:48 PM
To: Nuestros Ranchos
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos o quintos

Hola R.A.Ricci ayer me la pasé buscando el matrimonio de Manuel

Comment

Rick, is this Salvador born June 17, 1748 and Married Feb 12, 1772?? to Maria Josefa martin del Campo?/
----- Original Message -----
From: Ricci, Richard
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos o quintos

Maria del carmen es mi abuela materna, ella es hija de jose prospero perez y juana ramirez
prospero perez es hijo de jose melquiades perez y maria manuela de la trinidad alvarez franco
Melquiades es hijo de jose maria perez de paredes y Rafalela Ramirez
Rafaela ramirez es hija de Salbador Ygnacio Ramirez de Hermosillo y Gutierrez de Laris Y de Josefa Martin del campo Perez
Yo no sabia que Josefa se llamaba Maria Josefa de san Leonardo, encontraste su act de Bautismo?
yo tengo las ramas de todos menos los antepasados de jose covarrubias
de los hijos de josefa y salvador ygnacio tengo:
Maria Clara
rafaela
jose Ysidoro Nepomuceno
francisca
maria dolores
josefa

Comment

No mike, these are not the same people. Salbador Ygnacio Ramirez is baptized on 24/aug/1766 in jalos and they were married the 12/feb/1800 also in jalos. I have her down only as Maria Josefa but in the search to find out where the Maria josefa de san Leonardo it seems that I may have come up on a little more information. Previously I had the family using only perez and perez de paredes. i found one document that lists the mother as franco and the father as using Martinez del campo. I need to do more checking to see if indeed they are talking about the same people. I know of other families that used franco and perez interchangeably. i want to find out if they are the same people because if they are then it adds a sibling to josefa that I did not know about.
I still have not rec'd any response in regards to the "San Leandro" or a baptismal certificate.

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Miggy GUTIERREZ
Sent: Tue 2/24/2009 8:15

Comment

Los hijos que tengo registrados de Salvador Ramírez y Josefa Martín son los siguientes:

1.- María Severiana de la Luz.

2.- Pedro José.

3.- María de los Dolores de San Lucas.

4.- María Tomasa.

5.- José Isidoro Nepomuceno.

6.- María Ignacia.

7.- María Clara.

8.- María de San José.

9.- María Francisca.

10.- Víctor.

11.- María del Rosario.

12.- María Rafaela.

María Josefa de San Leonardo Martín de Campo fue bautizada el 21 de noviembre de 1781 en Jalostotitlán, hija de José Antonio Agustín Martín del Campo e Ignacia María Anacleta Pérez de Paredes. Casó en Jalostotitlán con Salvador Ignacio Ramírez de Hermosillo el 12 de febrero de 1800.

En cuanto a José de Covarrubias, el cual casó con Leonor Sánchez de Porras, es hijo de otro José de Covarrubias y Leonor de Hermosillo. Casado con Margarita Martín del Campo, antes que con Leonor Sánchez de Porras.

Saludos.
Jorge Luis Ramírez Gómez.

> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 10:56:23 -0800
> From: rricci@lausd.net
> To

Comment

Tu me mandaste:

María Josefa de San Leonardo Martín de Campo fue bautizada el 21 de noviembre de 1781 en Jalostotitlán, hija de José Antonio Agustín Martín del Campo e Ignacia María Anacleta Pérez de Paredes. Casó en Jalostotitlán con Salvador Ignacio Ramírez de Hermosillo el 12 de febrero de 1800.

Yo tenia:
Maria Josefa Martin del Campo y Perez de Paredes, hija de Jose antonio Agustin Martin del campo Francode Paredes y su esposa Maria Gertrudis Perez de paredes y Ochoa Garibay
Maria gertrudis Perez y Ochoa Garibay, bautizada 25/nov/1776 y hija de Jose Manuel Perez de Paredes Y Gertrudis Ochoa Garibay
Tambien tengo la misma fecha de matirmonio de salvador ignacio y josefa, 12/feb/1800

De los padres de jose maria De la torre y de la torre quien esta casado con Maria Eusevia Martin del campo y Barba sigo regresando, depues de mas de 20 anos a:

Salvador Clemente De la torre casado con Maria Alexandra Guadalupe De la Torre casados en aguascalientes el 19/feb/1787 (Rollo

Comment

Maria Ygnacia Perez de Paredes se caso el 6 /feb/1780 en Jalostotitlan con Joseph Antonio Agustin Martines del Campo

el problema es que hay dos ygnacia perez de paredes de los mismos padres

yo tenia a la esposa como Maria Gertrudis Ygnacia Perez de Paredes Ochoa Garibay
bautizada 25/nov/1776

y tu tienes a su hermana, Ygnacia Maria Anacleta Perez de paredes Ochoa Garibay bautizada 12/may/1764

tu estas correcto por que maria gertrudis tuviera cuatro anos de edad en 1780

________________________________

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Ricci, Richard
Sent: Wed 3/4/2009 2:35 PM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] somos primos cuartos

Tu me mandaste:

María Josefa de San Leonardo Martín de Campo fue bautizada el 21 de noviembre de 1781 en Jalostotitlán, hija de José Antonio Agustín Martín del Campo e Ignacia María Anacleta Pérez de Paredes. Casó en Jalostotitlán con Salvador Ignacio Ramírez de Hermosillo el 12 de

Comment

Edgar Olguin Diaz
BUEN DIAS PACO ROMO
UNA PREGUNTA
TIENE EL TESTAMENTO DE BERNARDO RUIZ DE ESPARZA ESPOSO DE CATALINA LOZANO FRIAS?

ESTE ES EL TESTAMENTO PERO ME GUSTARIA TENER EL ARCHIVO DIGITALIZADO
ME LO PODRIAS PASAR?
TE LO AGRADEZCERIA MUCHO

Testamento de Bernardo Ruiz de Esparza
Sello Tercero, Un Real, Años de Mil Seiscientos y Noventa, y Noventa y Uno.
En Nombre de Dios Todo Poderoso y de su Vendita Madre la Siempre Virgen
Maria concebida en Gracia y Gloria desde el primer instante de su ser. Amen.
Notorio y manifiesto sea a los que este pressente testamento vieren, como
yo, Bernardo Ruys de Esparssa, hijo legitimo de Lope Ruys de Esparssa y de
Francisca Gabai su Lexitima Muxer, vezinos que fueron de esta Villa de Aguas
calientes de donde soy natural y actualmente vezino estando en mi entera
salud cabal, juissio, memoria y entendimiento....etc. etc.
On a different paragraph, he continues
Y ten declaro que fui casado y velado segun horden de Ntra. Sta. Madre
Yglesia Chatolica

Comment

Hola Paco,

Espero que te encuentres bien. Estoy preguntando acerca de un documento histórico que espero esté en su archivo. Es el siguiente documento

Testamento de Juan de Tiscareño

LUGAR- Aguascalientes FECHA- 8-VIII-1700 LOCALIZACION- 79 3 55 110v-

ESCRIBANO- Salvador Delgado Cervantes

Fecha de nacimiento: acerca de 1637

Fallecio: 1715

Hijo legitimo de Luis de Tiscareno y Lorenza Ruiz de Esparza

 

Muchas gracias,

Hector Valdez

Bringing back Juan de Moscoso y Sandoval

Hello, everybody!

Comments

Comment

Hi I recently connected myself to Juan Moscoso y Sandoval and was wondering whether there was any new information. I see that there's a bishop and cardinal of the same name in Spaion during somewhat of the same time period named Baltasar Moscoso y Sandoval but nothing specific that connects our Moscoso y Sandoval to this family. Just wondering if there was any new info 

 

Comment

To my knowledge, everyone is still stuck at Juan Moscoso y Sandoval. There has been no confirmation as to who his parents were. The only potential clue is the presence of Mateo Vasquez de Sandoval but any relationship is unclear.

Comment

It seems to me that Juan Moscoso y Sandoval has to be related in some way to Baltasar Moscoso y Sandoval. I know someone mentioned on another thread that the name isn't that uncommon but I just don't see that being the case. Most of the members of this family are high ranking church members, Counts, Knights, etc... and they descend from even higher ranking church officials and even higher ranking nobility. I don't see someone in Mexico randomly choosing to use a compound surname of a well known noble family that they have no connection too. In the same way I can't imagine someone in Mexico using the compound Hurtado de Mendoza unless they were in some way connected to that family. It would seem at first glance that the compound surname Moscoso y Sandoval would have to come from the marriage of Lope de Moscoso and Leonor de Sandoval. The only problem is there's no known children that go by Juan de Moscoso y Sandoval. We do know that Lope de Moscoso and Leonor de Sandoval had a grandson

Comment

For whatever it's worth, just some of my thoughts on the topic.

Now if in general during that time it was common to name children after ancestors, and specifically in that area

1. Catalina Cortes has a few descendants named after her
2. and so does Magdalena de Lavezares
3. and so does Melchora de los Reyes

Then can't we look into to see if the same tradition exists in Juan de Moscoso y Sandoval's descendants to get clues about his ancestors?

What I see is his daughter 1. Cecilia Vasquez de Sandoval (+ Diego Gonzalez) and other of his descendants named Cecilia that use Vasquez on at least an occasion. And since one of the Cecilias (+ Mateo Gonzalez de Ruvalcaba) is not a daughter of the 1st Cecilia I mentioned, but a niece then isn't it reasonably to assume that there should be a Cecilia Vasquez that Juan de Moscoso de Sandoval descends from?

And since there isn't a Leonor as a daughter or I don't even think a granddaughter, then doesn't it seem less likely that he descends from a

Comment

You are stuck where I think we are all stuck. I think that dropbox link is mine. I don't think there actually is any primary source expressly stating that Mateo is the father of Juan Moscoso y Sandoval. The only primary source with Mateo's name can be found in this thread

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/24259?page=1

Sorry, wish I had more for you! I did just take a quick look in Sayula and looks like there may be Vasquez de Sandoval there in mid 1650s

Comment

Thank you! Actually, it might be quite helpful. In this document both mentions of Mateo are answers to "question 25", implying that he abandoned his wife. The question is on page 85 of the same document, and it includes men that have abandoned their wives, that have them in Spain (which we know is not the case), that have no permission from the King to be in Mexico, that have died without a testament, or without any heir. There is no mention of a son, and I could think that the absence of a son could very well be a reason a man would abandon a wife.
Also, this document is from 1610, while the book that states he is the father of Juan de Moscoso y Sandoval says "it was told in 1608...".

Comment

I would think so... I mean, there is a side of the Moscoso family with Vazquez in it (starting with Suero Vázquez de Moscoso) which would give a hint and make it possible for Mateo to be his father, and Juan using Moscoso. But as far as I could get, this side of the family didn't mix with Sandoval, and there was no hint of any Mateo whatsoever...

I scanned the same document to find others who are accused in question 25, and they do mention when they have children. I don't know. Taking into account that back then women were pretty much meant to have kids, maybe if she couldn't have any that would've made him leave. Because there is also another question asking if they know someone who lives with a partner they're not married to, so if this guy had another woman, they probably woul've said so. It's just making assumptions, in the end... I'll keep looking at this record, though.

Also, I found this: https://coronado.unm.edu/node/7946
It's all about a "Juan de Sandoval" that I found in

Comment

Hello Ana Torres
Sorry I did not write sooner, I got side tracked doing research for another Prima. You and I share Justiniano Moscoso y Sandoval and I come in thru his daughter Maria Manuela who married Jph Mariano Tello de Orosco on 15th May 1775 in Nochistlan F- 226727 image #473. here is he link

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TQ9H-7P?i=472&wc=3P9F-…

Comment

Hi!

That's so nice! I descend from his son José Francisco, married to Juana de Aguirre. It's so cool that many of us are related to them. That brings my hopes up to solve this whole mystery.

Attn: Guillermo Tovar de Teresa y otros interesados Mota-Padilla y los Méndez de Torres

Estimado Guillermo:

Comments

Comment

Sr. Daniel buen día, 
Recientemente he encontrado este hilo de su parte, le contacto para saber si pudo conseguir el testamento/inventario de Don Diego patriarca de los Méndez de Torres, ya que para variar, yo también desciendo de él por medio de su hijo Pedro. 
Como sabrá y por lo que he visto en otros hilos, un descendiente de él, asegura en su información para el ingreso al Colegio de Abogados de México que don Diego era de Tavira, Faro en Portugal. También veo que usted comenta que su esposa María Gómez de Bedoya era originaria de León. 
Yo no he logrado encontrar información que corrobore estos puntos por lo que me gustaría saber si, en caso de haber conseguido dicho testamento/inventario, esta información es aclarada.
Saludos cordiales.